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Chris 18-03-2019 17:10
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35987355)
Is Bercow trying to frustrate brexit ?
Have you only just noticed?:D

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35987354)
Think Bercow is off her Xmas card list....
He's most likely off the honours list as well, and if so will be the first speaker in generations not to automatically get a peerage upon retirement.

Sephiroth 18-03-2019 17:12
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35987356)
I do enjoy a good constitutional crisis.
Why have we been at odds from time to time?!!

Damien 18-03-2019 17:12
Re: Brexit
 
ERG seem happy.

Chris 18-03-2019 17:18
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35987361)
ERG seem happy.
Their calculation is that the EU won't grant an extension unless there's some prospect of a deal emerging that parliament will back. Any further signs of intransigence in parliament feeds into that view. They may also be calculating that there is a point at which Teresa May will go for No Deal in preference to a drawn out process that sooner or later is going to end in either a referendum, or a general election, or both.

I'm not certain they're thinking straight, but I'm by no means certain anybody is. Bercow, for all his supposed impartiality, clearly thinks that he's assisting the EU in granting a long extension in order to allow a totally different, softer, Brexit to be negotiated. He's dispensed with convention often enough over the last month, it simply isn't credible for him to start using it as an excuse for blocking Government business now, especially on an issue as important as this.

1andrew1 18-03-2019 17:19
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35987355)
Is Bercow trying to frustrate brexit ?
No, that's the ERG. :D

papa smurf 18-03-2019 17:20
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35987357)
Have you only just noticed?:D

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------



He's most likely off the honours list as well, and if so will be the first speaker in generations not to automatically get a peerage upon retirement.
How the hell is he allowed to do this?

Damien 18-03-2019 17:22
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35987362)
Their calculation is that the EU won't grant an extension unless there's some prospect of a deal emerging that parliament will back. Any further signs of intransigence in parliament feeds into that view. They may also be calculating that there is a point at which Teresa May will go for No Deal in preference to a drawn out process that sooner or later is going to end in either a referendum, or a general election, or both.

I'm not certain they're thinking straight, but I'm by no means certain anybody is. Bercow, for all his supposed impartiality, clearly thinks that he's assisting the EU in granting a long extension in order to allow a totally different, softer, Brexit to be negotiated. He's dispensed with convention often enough over the last month, it simply isn't credible for him to start using it as an excuse for blocking Government business now, especially on an issue as important as this.
It wouldn't be the first time they've miscalculated..Question is what does May do now.

Hugh 18-03-2019 17:24
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35987364)
How the hell is he allowed to do this?
Because he’s following the rules...


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47614074
Quote:
quoting Erskine May, the parliamentary rulebook, he said "what the government cannot legitimately do is resubmit to the House the same proposition - or substantially the same proposition - as that of last week, which was rejected by 149 votes".

This convention, he added, was "necessary to ensure the sensible use of the House's time and the proper respect for the decisions it takes"
Loved (?) The Solicitor-General’s comment
Quote:
Solicitor General Robert Buckland warned there was now a "constitutional crisis" and suggested the onus was on the EU to come up with "new solutions" to enable MPs to vote on the deal again.
How would the EU do that, then - mind-reading?

Damien 18-03-2019 17:26
Re: Brexit
 
To be honest I think he is on firmer ground in denying the government the ability to keep having MPs vote on the bill but as Chris has said it's hardly as if he has stuck with convention throughout this process.

Chris 18-03-2019 17:26
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35987364)
How the hell is he allowed to do this?
The Speaker of the House of Commons is a bloody powerful individual, it's just that circumstances are rarely so dire as to give the one who holds the office the opportunity to make maximum mischief. Much of what he can do rests on convention rather than statute but the problem there is that just about everything the Commons does is based on convention, and the Speaker is the final arbiter of how convention applies. There is no way to appeal any decision he makes. So if you are saddled with a Speaker who is prepared to pick and choose which conventions he will uphold, there's very little that can be done, short of having Her Maj send him to the Tower to relieve his shoulders of the burden of supporting his enormous head.

papa smurf 18-03-2019 17:28
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35987368)
Because he’s following the rules...


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47614074

Loved (?) The Solicitor-General’s comment

How would the EU do that, then - mind-reading?
Only when it suits him, the rest of the time he's ignoring them and doing his own thing.

Damien 18-03-2019 17:28
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35987370)
The Speaker of the House of Commons is a bloody powerful individual, it's just that circumstances are rarely so dire as to give the one who holds the office the opportunity to make maximum mischief. Much of what he can do rests on convention rather than statute but the problem there is that just about everything the Commons does is based on convention, and the Speaker is the final arbiter of how convention applies. There is no way to appeal any decision he makes. So if you are saddled with a Speaker who is prepared to pick and choose which conventions he will uphold, there's very little that can be done, short of having Her Maj send him to the Tower to relieve his shoulders of the burden of supporting his enormous head.
Well they can vote to unseat him can't they? It's just the Government know they'll lose the vote since the rest of the Parliament is loving it.

papa smurf 18-03-2019 17:29
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35987370)
The Speaker of the House of Commons is a bloody powerful individual, it's just that circumstances are rarely so dire as to give the one who holds the office the opportunity to make maximum mischief. Much of what he can do rests on convention rather than statute but the problem there is that just about everything the Commons does is based on convention, and the Speaker is the final arbiter of how convention applies. There is no way to appeal any decision he makes. So if you are saddled with a Speaker who is prepared to pick and choose which conventions he will uphold, there's very little that can be done, short of having Her Maj send him to the Tower to relieve his shoulders of the burden of supporting his enormous head.
Let's hope that she does just that

Chris 18-03-2019 17:30
Re: Brexit
 
Yes, the weakness of May's government is ultimately what has allowed Bercow to slip his leash. Their only power over him is to deny him a peerage, and I won't be surprised if he's been quietly warned about that already. But if he has been so warned, it doesn't seem to have worked.

papa smurf 18-03-2019 17:41
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35987375)
Yes, the weakness of May's government is ultimately what has allowed Bercow to slip his leash. Their only power over him is to deny him a peerage, and I won't be surprised if he's been quietly warned about that already. But if he has been so warned, it doesn't seem to have worked.
Maybe there's some 400 year old law that can be used to finish him off?
I just can't believe he's playing these games at such an important time in the country's history.


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