Cable Forum - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

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- - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[QUOTE=Wildie;34572092]just done a trace route having issues with ff crashing out pages been blank, here is a old trace 20 may
Tracing route to www.l.google.com [66.249.93.104]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 32 ms 100 ms 99 xxx.xxxx.xxx [192.168.1.254]

It's not a good idea to post that leader information on a Forum I could tell not only a name I might have wanted but also the IP address looks like the default value for a particular type/make of router, "Please tell me that you have at least changed the Default Password", if you haven't change it immediately, because your system looks vulnerable to a particular type of attack!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

it`s known they have issues but to answer your question you dam right i change the pwd and its very very very long

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34571921)

I got an email this evening. Emma is "disappointed" that I have declined to remove the comments about them misleading ICO and has stated they will continue to monitor the situation. No more talk of legal action. So yes basically it would seem BT were indeed trying to menace me. I will look into this but I am sure there is something in the law with regards to threatening someone with legal action if you never intend to follow through with the threat.

Alexander Hanff

Maybe this will help:

2 Offer to make amends

(1) A person who has published a statement alleged to be defamatory of another may offer to make amends under this section.

and;

3 Accepting an offer to make amends

(2) The party accepting the offer may not bring or continue defamation proceedings in respect of the publication concerned against the person making the offer, but he is entitled to enforce the offer to make amends, as follows.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts1996..._en_1#pb2-l1g3

It seems to me that BT hilighted the issue; you offered to sort; they accepted; Chapter closed - however you must ensure that you live up to your promise (which we have no doubts you will).

Anyone with more legal experience, and object to this view, please respond.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34572118)

Do you run a hosts file?
Mine is the MVPS one which is pretty rigorous.

The blank page could be a sign of a Browser Page Capture, but that would mean that the capture system is running slo.....w!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

"EU mulls intervention over BT's secret Phorm trials"

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06...t_phorm_trial/

---------- Post added at 14:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:17 ----------

There had to be something hitting the share price. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Saw that one coming :) Way to go Chris!

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I have mentioned this once before. On my laptop at work Google Maps currently does not work most of the time but now and again it works perfectly for about an hour. When it's working badly I get incomplete maps whatever I try in an attempt to fix it. This only started a couple of weeks ago. At work internet is accessed using a BT Business ADSL line. I wish I had a little more time to investigate!

At home (same) laptop always works perfectly for Google maps all times of the day faultlessly. (Cable Virgin Media).

Any thoughts or anyone with similar experiences.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark777 (Post 34572144)

Okay - just getting an email off to Mme Reding. Any simple urls to quote with reference to the ICO gums issue? I am afraid I haven't time for a long email.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34572163)

Okay - just getting an email off to Mme Reding. Any simple urls to quote with reference to the ICO gums issue? I am afraid I haven't time for a long email.

I think the only real reference we have to the ICO lamb is in Mr Mainwarings letter, as referenced from the register article.

I assume that the EU Commission would also have an interest in the repeated obstruction of any attempt to get a RIPA investigation started. Links for that abound.

One question for the thread in general. Should we not send notice of our feelings about this via snail-mail?

A pile of letters has a physical presence and may have more impact, especially if it's a big one.

EDIT: ICO also needed 3 stabs at a document before even confirming it must be opt-in.

http://www.ico.gov.uk/about_us/news_...e_and_oie.aspx

Related reg article.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...phorm_tougher/

This will need a lot of thinking about. Without the scrutiny/opposition of the public, phorm would now be running 'transparently' and opt-out. None of the UK authorities have done their job.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Well the latest contact I have been given form BT just answered some questions. I have no explicit agreement to quote, so the gist of it was to avoid profiling

Use HTTPS
Use HTTP authentication
Block Googlebot
Tell us what your sites are an prove you are the owner.

I have replied as follows and copied my MP in for good measure. My MP has so far seemed quite supportive on the issue, but we'll see how it goes.

Quote:

Hi,

a) I do not see why I should have to pay for the certificates to make my sites SSL encrypted to ensure my rights to privacy.

b) My sites use cookie based authentication (as do many, many sites out there), so this is a non-starter. but at least this is an admission that you will in fact be intercepting data from parts of sites which are password protected.

c) As I have previously stated, I am happy for Google to index my site as it directs visitors to my site - the Phorm system does not. In fact it actually uses the content of my site to direct your customers to other similar sites which may interest them - quite the opposite. I find your use of the Googlebot rules to be crass at the very least - you should have the bottle to use your own separate user-agent string rather than pretending to be Googlebot (computer misuse???)

On your next point I see no reason why I should have to provide you (and any other ISPs who use this type of technology) with my details in order to block access. Doing so would help to give your policies credence which they do not (in my opinion) deserve. You should not profile my site unless I specifically give you (not Google) access.

As the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (Chapter 1 Section 3) states

(1) Conduct by any person consisting in the interception of a communication is authorised by this section if the communication is one which, or which that person has reasonable grounds for believing, is both—

(a) a communication sent by a person who has consented to the interception; and

(b) a communication the intended recipient of which has so consented.

As it stands, but "pretending to be Google" you cannot in good faith have reasonable grounds for believing the person sending the communication (website owner) has consented to the interception. I know I don't consent and I am aware of a number of other site owners who feel the same way.

If necessary I could examine the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, with reference to you copying my pages, and creating a derivative work, for financial gain in its use for directed advertising.

Aside from the expensive route of HTTPS, I also have no guarantees (other than your word) that you will not profile my site. Nor have you provided, to the best of my knowledge, any way of telling whether or not my site has been profiled, so that I may check that you are doing as you say you will. Given the way in which BT has conducted itself with this matter and Phorm's history as 121Media I am not inclined to take your word for it.

As such could you please provide either the ip address ranges (Alternatively use your own user-agent for robots.txt) or a method by which I will be able to tell whether my traffic has been profiled?

A copy of (my portion) of this reply will be posted to the cable forum thread regarding this issue, and unless advised to the contrary I will assume that as I have access to your reply it is OK for others to read it also and I will post it up.

Regards

Simon

If anyone would care to provide anything they think worth mentioning in the next installment, I'm open to suggestions.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

And yes, everyone should send a postal letter to Commissioner Reding applauding the news and reiterating their concerns over ICO's inaction on this issue and the wider issue of Phorm as a whole.

We have the ball in our court now, we are very much in the game and we need to take advantage of this news to make sure the Commissioner knows that this is a major public issue and not just a bunch of geeks whining.

Please, if ever there was a crucial time to write a real letter, now IS that time.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Just a thought, but I don't think that it is only the ICO that we should be focusing on. Haven't they said they are only interested in the DPA? The refusal of the police to investigate numerous complaints regarding RIPA should not be forgotten and should probably be pursued just as rigorously.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Well we need to get the case file to the police at the protest before we can realistically start complaint procedures, since then we will have a much stronger argument given the case file will be handed over in a public fashion.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34572199)

Perhaps we should not be waiting until the protest. It's 5 or 6 weeks away.

Maybe we should get the file together, all download it and make a coordinated mass complaint at our local nicks.

No joy there, make a complaint to each Chief Constable, stressing that no action will result in complaint to the IPCC and EU commission.

We can still do the same at the demo.

EDIT : Looks like Phorm are shoring the share price again.