Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36106281)

That’s not what I’m asking, I’m asking you what will happen if you let the virus flood through society, the answer is that masses of primary & secondary health care professionals will be either off sick, or self isolating. both sets would potentially be unable to provide care to either covid or normal patients.

You’re right hospitals haven’t become overwhelmed yet, either in previous waves because we had lockdowns or in this wave because of course there is the lag between infection and hospitalisation. It is interesting however that London’s hospitalisation rate is up 30% week on week where the current epicentre of omicron infections is. I hope I’m wrong but I believe in the next 2-3 weeks we will see significant admissions. Time will tell.


Vaccines were our way out of this until the omicron variant came along, they’re now not as much the silver bullet that they originally were.

Natural immunity is not a protection against reinfection from omicron (or so the scientists say)

Turning to lockdowns, they’ve always been stated that their job was to suppress the spread of infection and to protect the NHS, nothing else. To that end they did their job exactly as was required.


Lastly, it is of course your choice should you wish to, and no doubt there will be a number of people who will agree and act in the same way. However, it appears in general that the British public are acting more cautiously.


Just my 2c

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36106279)

Didnt Wales try a "Circuit Breaker" last year.
Did it really achieve much ? The whole UK went into lockdown anyway.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36106287)

I will say it again. Lockdowns do not work, this has been proven time and time again.

Natural Immunity is a viable protection. It doesn’t stop you catching it, much like the vaccines, but helps equally & greatly against serious illness.

Sorry but the booster vaccines came out before Omicron became a thing.

So what your advocating is damaging shut downs at every variant and jabs jabs and more jabs galore and sod every other fatal illness out there?

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36106289)

They do work, when the aim is to slow the spread of the virus, there is demonstrable proof of that happening when they were implemented.

Nobody knows that natural immunity will do in our society, South Africa isn’t a direct comparison due its demographics.

Pierre said this earlier in the thread, what should have happened is that clinical staffing for the nhs should have been ramped up, the government has had two years and they have failed so spectacularly it’s beyond comprehension.

Lockdown is the absolute last thing I want to happen, however it appears that current measures are not sufficient.

Let’s keep going with current measures… what happens when other areas of the country start to catch up with London ?

Businesses unable to operate due to staff sick or isolating
Primary/secondary care unable to offer treatment due to staff sick or isolating

This is a horrible place to be in with two options and neither of them is a win

1. Continue as we are. Protect the economy, damage the nhs
2. Implement further protective measures. Damage the economy, protect the nhs

There’s no win win solution in this, something is going to suffer

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36106290)

It is better to just live with the virus. The Pandemic is an endemic. We cannot live like this at every variant.

The original major lockdown worked, but when lockdowns are implemented again and again, behavioural science dictates they are less effective, because people become tired of perpetual locking everything down.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36106291)

Continuing as we are doesn’t protect the economy. It just absolves the Government of responsibility for it.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36106292)

Completely agree re lockdowns, people grew weary and let’s face it lockdowns 3& 4 weren’t even lockdowns.

What happens to businesses/staff and to NHS staff if we live with the virus? How many hundreds of thousands if not millions of people will be sick or need to self isolate ?

I don’t want the NHS to collapse, it’s not without faults but I’m immensely proud of the service we have.

We can put in further financial assistance to help businesses and it can be paid for

---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

Netherlands to go back into lockdown from tomorrow

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59713503

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------



It doesn’t financially, think about the SSP claims…. Also, businesses that are having to pay sick pay but are unable to operate due to staff shortages. They would be screaming for financial assistance again

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36106297)

It'll become routine like flu. At the moment there are too many headless chickens running round with knives in their backs.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36106296)

You keep going on about ifs and buts. But if we learn to live with the virus, like every other illness, no needs for isolation, majority of those catching it will be asymptomatic. And with omicron it’s not causing a surge in hospital admissions or deaths.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36106297)

It'll become routine like flu. At the moment there are too many headless chickens running round with knives in their backs.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36106300)

London hospitalisations have increased 30% in a week where the current omicron epicentre is. I’ll be willing to bet that’s going to increase, probably significantly in the next 2-3 weeks

If we choose not to isolate when sick and symptoms are as you say symptomatic. What happens to the immunosuppressed living their lives. What happens to front line medical staff who are infected and go into their place of work with clinically vulnerable people?

We’re both talking ifs and buts as neither of us can see how this definitively ends. I guess it comes down to your personal appetite in terms of risk aversion.


We’ve been able to find money for wars & other nonsense such as HS2. We can find money to support businesses (which I don’t disagree will need considerable support.)

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36106303)

The risk is not there. It’s a mild flu like condition.

And how do we know that the 30% increase is for Omicron or just normal for winter like illnesses?

We already have testimony from Africa Omicron is a very mild version of Covid. They have even accused the UK and other European nations of overreacting and they are right.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36106303)

The risk is not there. It’s a mild flu like condition.

And how do we know that the 30% increase is for Omicron or just normal for winter like illnesses?

We already have testimony from Africa Omicron is a very mild version of Covid. They have even accused the UK and other European nations of overreacting and they are right.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36106308)

It’s a mild flu like condition to some, ok, let me ask another way, if it’s just a mild flu, then why did governments globally lockdown, they can’t all be wrong, so what is the ulterior motive ?

It would be an amazing coincidence to see it linked to something else, but you’re right it’s entirely plausible

Africas population & demographics are completely different to the U.K. they can’t speak on our behalf.

This could be a storm in a teacup. You could be right, I hope you are. As if you’re wrong & if the scientists are right we are going to be in a world of hurt.

Time will tell.

Been a pleasure discussing ��