Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well, I’m intelligent. I voted remain. Since then I’ve digested and assessed everything and if there was a referendum tomorrow I would vote stay out.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There won't be another referendum for at least 10 years. By then, I'm sure you will have flipped to the option closer to Rejoin.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

aye another mega big brexit lie :LOL:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Cruella Braverman is going off on one about these figures.

If only we knew who was in charge of the Home Office when this happened…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The biggest surge in immigration in British history came *after* Brexit from people outside the EU.;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Indeed but so much for the government looking after their own as the only people they are looking after are their own corrupted cronies and powerful media friends.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It all ties in with the huge plethora of lies they told the public.

Unless you have not noticed, nothing is working anymore, public services are in deep never ending crisis, the NHS, social care and community primary services are incredibly hard to access, etc, etc, etc.

You can have your sovereignty but it does not make this a better country for the vast majority of its population.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Could you provide some tangible examples where this Sovereignty has benefited the British people, please?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That’s the wrong question. The correct question is whether it is right, on a point of principle, for certain legislative decisions to be taken by a supra-national body over which we have (had) extremely limited democratic influence.

Your question speaks to the competence (or otherwise) of those who have held re-patriated powers for the past 3 years (give or take), which is an interesting, but quite different, party political discussion.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No not a rant, but the plain old truth...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So would I, the country has gone through all this only to go back in with our tail between our legs tomorrow, no thanks, I'll just retain the right criticise it at every opportunity

Blimey, some people have been waiting/relying/wishing for that for 30 odd years and counting

Oh yes nothing to do with brexit, I mean it's not like we had the right to return illegals to the country they entered from under it or return EU citizens who committed crime or were work shy, they were cheap labour and I was actually a committed kipper in the 90's when all the lower end jobs were minimum wage because of them but things had changed, they didn't want to live 6 to a house and do 300 hours a month anymore from what I could tell and because of it the wages were going up.

Yeah I'm not sure it's been worth it for a point of principle.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That’s a "NO”, then…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I doubt it. Countries like Poland are now catching up with us economically. With a lack of house-building in the UK under the Conservatives driving housing costs upwards, the attraction of relocating to the UK from the EU has reduced. And no, Turkey hasn't joined the EU despite what Nige may have suggested.

---------- Post added at 13:10 ---------- Previous post was at 13:09 ----------

Yeah but blue passports. :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Can we take some orders from Belgium ASAP? Our banks are leaking information to USA and EU.

https://news.bloombergtax.com/daily-...americans-data

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What you are doing, like Seph before you, is celebrating the questionably advantageous gain in sovereignty without the context of said gain against a backdrop of massive damage to the country.

The merit or not of said gain can only be valued when you look at the entire journey. History will judge that there is no advantageous gain, quite the opposite.

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:01 ----------

I'd ignore him, he only cares about the ideology, nothing more.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

My son. He was born in Indiana, USA.

Santander leaked the info.

Try to create a fake account with Santander with a USA birthday address. They will report it to IRS.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This November 2023 paper by the Centre for Inclusive Trade Policy looks at the impact of Brexit on UK import prices and finds the “referendum outcome raised UK import prices by 11 per cent..."

And last week the National Institute of Economic and Social Research published an updated estimate of the Brexit hit, which it said “Our estimates indicate that the negative impact of Brexit gradually escalates, reaching some 5-6 per cent of GDP or about £2,300 per capita by 2035. The reduction in real incomes resulting from the fall in the UK terms of trade associated with changes in trading relations with the European Union and the fall in productivity are the largest contributors to the estimated reduction in real GDP, with each accounting for over 2.5 percentage points."

And Tesla and BYD ruled out investing in new car plants in the UK due to Brexit.

We've been fortunate that existing manufacturers have reinvested but the possibility of future divergence is acting as an investment constraint.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You should be concerned by an 11% increase in costs making British companies less competitive. They're the country's future.
There's always a trade-off in sovereignty v global influence and prosperity. I think if this trade off had been acknowledged at the time by Brexiters, the economics would not need pointing out.

I'm afraid those two situations don't give you a get out of jail free card for Brexit.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There are reliable ways of modelling how the UK would have fared without Brexit.

Consumers and share prices have all felt it. There's no magic trick to increase profitability in a globally competitive market.

Nothing wrong with robust discussions in forums and between countries. It's what keeps us all so young on Cable Forum. :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nope. Thanks. I told him to do so.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...latest-updates

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If migration is a problem, he’s right about this bit.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

And many of those legal migrants work in the NHS and Social Care services where there are still chronic staff shortages across both sectors.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That is a sensible position to take as a matter of principle, but not where food is concerned. We are dangerously exposed if we rely on imports for food.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It’s a dangerous position to take as a “matter of principle”.

If something can be made cheaper in another country ignores the fact someone, or a company, making it here pays income tax and other taxes. The people involved spend money in our towns and communities.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Interesting interview with the new Home Secretary in the Times today - he seems more interested in process and results than in headlines.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9...ec87667577eaaa

On a related note, he seems to have "joined up" thinking, rather than just dog-whistling - for instance, Braverman’s proposal to raise the required job salary level for potential immigrants to £40 would have detrimentally affected the Social Care and Health sectors, and her proposal to limit University Visas would have impacted U.K. students, as Overseas students fees subsidise U.K. students (as their £9,250 fees do not, on average, cover the cost of their tuition).

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

To bad, we were warned brexit would destroy British farming by Patrick bloody Minford of all people amongst others and voted for it anyway, we'll just have to suck it up but remember, nothing reeks of sovereignty more than relying on other countries for your food

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Indeed
- Reduced food self-sufficiency - tick
- Everyone on average worse off by £2k+ pa - tick
- Inability to return unlawful migrants to France - tick
- Decreased productivity - tick
- Lowest economic growth in Europe except Germany - tick

But in fairness, we do have Polish-printed blue passports so it's not all bad!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

and according to the OBR the all great CPTTP deal is even worse than first though now at 0.04 after 15 years

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ought-obr-says

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Just been reading about tory run, brexit supporting Cornwell, they received 1 billion in funding from the EU from the year 2000 and was going to receive 350 million more after 2020, instead they've got 18 million quid and the beaches are covered in shit, good job they knew what they were voting for...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Just in case you were all under some disillusionment, we’re not going back in.


Such wasted energy bitching like little spoilt bitches.


Carry on…..by all means, if you like whinging and bitching and moaning while achieving nothing apart from whinging, bitching and moaning ……crack on.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Mate, put either beer or the keyboard down - they’re not compatible after a few…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1701039630

https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/council-...funding-award/

Another usual ad-hominem attack from you - rather than rebut, you insult…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I do like a beer, but on a Sunday / school night. Best to not get too intoxicated……..mate…..which you are not.

That little outburst is just getting off my chest…because I’m bored of it, and it is also accurate.

“Remainers” which is a poor term, Anti-UK is much better and more accurate.

All they do is bitch and moan, 7 yrs down the line, thank god I’m not married to one… maaaate….

---------- Post added at 23:21 ---------- Previous post was at 23:17 ----------

Another ad-hominem attack from you. Rather than rebut you insult.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Oh, the irony….

Methinks you may being economical with the actuality re the keyboard/alcohol interface scenario

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Have I got it wrong, they got the £300 million then? That's something positive, I was always very sceptical about the matching funding...

---------- Post added at 01:07 ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 ----------

You okay hun

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If people don't like Remainers and Leavers being challenged over previous statements they have made v how things turned out, then they should probably not follow this thread.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Indeed as its a discussion forum with differing points of view.:)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Public Service Announcement:

Replace the phrase "remoaner whinge" (or similar) with the term "objective reality" to clarify understanding. :)

---------- Post added at 11:06 ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 ----------

That's a fair point Andrew. What is interesting is how much of the reality of the damage that Brexit has done to the country is invisible to the faithful. That's fine I suppose as they must rationalise the ideology that drove the agenda in some way.

What is more sinister is the move to referring to people who call out the lies and damage done in 2016 as "Anti-UK". The irony here is, of course, the decision in 2016 was anti-UK i.e. against the country's short, medium and long term interests.

Once you start invoking the nationalist trope, you are leaving your UKIP camp and well on the way to EDL and beyond.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Seph, people have posted countless examples of the damage done to the country by leaving the EU. We're wasting our time giving you yet more. Just Google it!

Sometimes people (the 37%) get it wrong. They listen to the lies and enough people are fooled. It happens ..

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I also get bored of it too, but that's why I just don't comment much in this thread.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

But what are you actually bored of? The discussion of the ongoing damage done to the country and the necessity to hold the people responsible to account? Why would this "bore" you? Do you think this should be all whitewashed and swept under the carpet?

Should we just watch these people continue with their maligned policies and say nothing? Just watch the excrement pumped into the sea & rivers and stay silent? Should we just watch them erode our freedoms and enjoy the race to the bottom?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I wouldn’t expect someone who passionately believes we should be in the EU to shut up about it, any more than I shut up about wanting us out of it my entire adult life. Such is the nature of campaigning for constitutional change.

However, what we have achieved is indeed a constitutional change, not a simple legislative one, and it will take time, perhaps considerable time, for the opportunities afforded to be taken full advantage of. Complaints about each individual perceived disadvantage, lacking as they do the deep perspective of time required to fully evaluate a constitutional change, just become white noise after a while.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I am bored of the discussion on here that goes around in circles. I voted to Remain, I would still vote to Remain, if we had the exact same terms offered to us (i.e. minus the Euro) then I would probably vote to rejoin. I still think our leaving has been a big mistake that has cost us economically.

But I could have said that last year, the year before that and the year before that. Everything else is just variations on a theme until there is a realistic chance this might change.

So I don't come on this thread that much other than a cursory glance once in a while and I suggested that Pierre do the same. You don't enter a discussion to declare your disinterest in it (other than me doing it right now obviously).

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The list was valid when I posted it and remains so. The points have been detailed in the preceding couple of pages. Unfortunately, wishful thinking can't wish them away.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Wishful thinking. Understandable in the circumstances but nonetheless, wishful thinking.

- Reduced food self-sufficiency -I believe Rees-Mogg has acknowledged this.

- Everyone on average worse off by £2k+ pa - tick - see the report I cited.

- Inability to return unlawful migrants to France - I think you've acknowledged this point.

- Decreased productivity - see the report I cited of 2.5% reduction in Brexit. Previously cited but here

Replacement of existing models at Nissan is welcome news but should be a given. Where are the new factories? Tesla and BYD have ruled the UK out due to Brexit.
https://www.just-auto.com/news/brexi...plant-reports/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...idUKKBN1XN1HW/


As Ian notes, Covid and Ukraine aren't just UK problem but I acknowledge that they will have impacted countries differently.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Seph, you are just trolling to wind people up. Get a grip man! :)

The serious point is the successful project to change macro economic & societal direction of the country using lies & misinformation, delivered by an undemocratic 37% of the electorate. No country's destiny should be changed so significantly on such a woeful majority. A supermajority was essential here.

Here's some bedtime reading since you are unware of any harmful effects of Brexit:

Economic effects of Brexit

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That's a law of economics I've not come across before! :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Keynes, Mill, Marx… Old Boy?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Sephonomics. It has to, so it will. A niche economic theory based on the supposition that British business will overcome economic reality based on the 20th century doctrine of British exceptionalism. :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Or to quote it in full

"Needs must when the devil drives…"

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nicely put Andrew. A variation on King Canute if you will :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Saint Jude was working overtime last night! ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You're again conveniently overlooking all the extra ongoing costs and missed inward opportunities like Tesla going to Germany and not the UK. It's great that Stellantis and Nissan have remained in the UK but to grow we need new investment not new red tape. "Three years on from Brexit and the impact to retailers and consumers has been relatively limited. However, in many ways, the most difficult bit is yet to come, says British Retail Consortium’s Andrew Opie."

That difficult bit is more red tape further denting the UK's Brexit-induced declining productivity.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Dealing with red tape = implementing UK bureaucracy which reduces our productivity.

You know that Brexit has caused a reduction in productivity? I've previously referenced the relevant reports.

Tesla and BYD are not red herrings. We had a chance of winning their factories if we were in the EU. We have zero chance being out of the EU per those companies.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Another part of Brexit is set to be completed.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...66250d2b&ei=18

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Don't worry, Seph! We hold all the cards and the deal's oven ready!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It has to, so it will…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

A snowflake whinger loses his court case in a victory for free speech. I wonder if the Daily Mirror's sister publication the Br'Express will cover this?
https://www.ft.com/content/0cde470a-...e-64980de68f39

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

"Some form" is a tad vague but we'll definitely have a closer relationship in the coming years.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...7cf4c28b&ei=14

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

He’ll just have to suck it up…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think you'll find those 2 points would be non negotiable for 'new' members, and to be fair if we had to rejoin on the EU's terms it would serve us right. We gave up our grandfather rights when we left and we're never getting them back.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://x.com/pritipatel/status/1730...Fx9lsEXWlOa1jg

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Would you not want to add retain £ to that list?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Gaslighting or does she really not understand how trade barriers work?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Both?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I have never been clear on what Brexit meant. Before the vote we were sold a variety of options. Farage tried to tempt wavering Leavers with a Norway-style Brexit, others with a customs union Brexit, or just have us as members of the EEA, keeping us effectively in the Single Market. There was some talk about a No Deal Brexit with us being on the really complex WTO rules and trade tariffs. So, people casted their vote to Remain or Leave. Those who voted Leave had a number of possible Brexits in mind, but we are told that cutting immigration was a driving force. (That went well! :erm:) As it turned out, as soon as Leave won, folk like Farage, Richard Tice and Johnson insisted that Leave Means Leave and that meant 'No Deal'

What has never been explained to me by any Leaver, least of all Farage, Tice and Johnson is what a No Deal Brexit would look like in terms of the NI border, the GFA and what international free trade deals we would have to replace the loss in EU trade we would have if we were to be on WTO trade tariffs. I picked up from Farage and Rees-Mogg that they thought the EU would be so desperate for trade with us they would be clamouring to do a free-trade deal with us asap and that we would be able to call the shots. Moggy explained after the vote that we might not see the full Brexit benefit for 50 years after an initial rough ride. I wish he had said that before the vote.

As it turned out, May then Johnson did deals that pleased nobody. Johnson won an election on the basis of getting Brexit done and then proceeded to do a hard Brexit deal, with the UK as a third country, in an all out attempt to be rid of EU rules we had helped make in better days. The EU, contrary to Leave expectations, played hard ball. It turns out, based on the existing trade set up with the EU and other economies that we stand to lose 5% GDP annually over the next 15 years. This doesn't take into account the delayed introduction of full trade regulations that are now due in the spring. Neither does it take into account possible trade deals with the USA and India, although these are unlikely to replace even 1% of trade we have already lost with the EU. It also turns out that universally Johnson's deal is thought to be a bit of a dog's breakfast. Farage hates it as do farmers, fishermen and the owners of SME's across the land.

So, help me guys, what does a proper Brexit look like? How would a good Brexit turn out in 5 years, 10 years, 20 years or Moggy's 50 years?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We’re out, stay out……for at least a generation, say 30yrs.

Then assess, where we are.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Condemn another generation to mediocrity.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That's not really answering roughɓeast's question though.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I really would like an answer to my question. There must be Leavers out there who know what a good Brexit looks like and what it has given us and will give us. I particularly want to know the benefits for ordinary people in the street for their daily lives. Have we seen any benefits yet? Control of borders and increased sovereignty I understand as concepts, but what does that mean for Jo and Josephine Soap?

Re: Britain outside the EU