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OLD BOY 12-03-2019 23:08
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35986337)
They would amount to leaving the EU, that's not in dispute. But his ideas about a future relationship with the EU would differ from yours.
But Andrew, it will not deliver on the result of the referendum. The electorate know that and will not be fooled.

1andrew1 12-03-2019 23:11
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35986339)
But Andrew, it will not deliver on the result of the referendum. The electorate know that and will not be fooled.
The referendum was binary. Everyone has their own interpretation of this. You are not wrong in yours and neither is Jezza in his.

nomadking 12-03-2019 23:19
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35986319)
So true. These cowards, No Deal chancers, may just have voted away their Brexit. I hope so ..

Remain MP's voted for May's Brexit yet these fools, who have bleated for years about leaving the EU, voted against leaving. History will judge the Tories harshly and will reserve specific ridicule for the ERG.
:confused: Remain MPs voted against the "deal".


Brexit MPs voted against it, because of the non-temporary nature of the backstop.

1andrew1 12-03-2019 23:27
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35986341)
:confused: Remain MPs voted against the "deal".


Brexit MPs voted against it, because of the non-temporary nature of the backstop.
A backdrop by its nature can never be temporary. ERG MPs for reasons best known to themselves gambled a definite Brexit for the unknown. Shows how irrational they are.

OLD BOY 12-03-2019 23:35
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35986340)
The referendum was binary. Everyone has their own interpretation of this. You are not wrong in yours and neither is Jezza in his.
We were promised we could make our own trade deals. Corbyn's solution doesn't deliver on that and will leave us in a worse position than we are now, taking orders from Brussels.

Come on, Andrew, I'm sure you know the advantages Brexiteers see in leaving and I repeat, Labour's vision simply does not deliver.

Dress it up as you want. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a bloody pig!

nomadking 12-03-2019 23:37
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35986342)
A backdrop by its nature can never be temporary. ERG MPs for reasons best known to themselves gambled a definite Brexit for the unknown. Shows how irrational they are.
Remain MPs voted against it. How is that supposedly rational, unless they are determined to prevent Brexit? They are determined to overturn the democratic vote.


ERG would've have voted for it, if the backstop had a defined end-date, rather than continue with the nonsense of it ending only if the EU says so.

1andrew1 12-03-2019 23:52
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35986344)
Remain MPs voted against it. How is that supposedly rational, unless they are determined to prevent Brexit? They are determined to overturn the democratic vote.


ERG would've have voted for it, if the backstop had a defined end-date, rather than continue with the nonsense of it ending only if the EU says so.
If it has a date, it's not a backstop. That's just not cricket. :D

The backstop is dependent on a deal being reached with the UK, not one side or the other calling it off. As the EU has the most trade deals of any trading bloc and the UK is a close and rich partner with close ties, a deal would invariably happen.

---------- Post added at 23:52 ---------- Previous post was at 23:48 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35986344)
Remain MPs voted against it. How is that supposedly rational, unless they are determined to prevent Brexit? They are determined to overturn the democratic vote.
Every MP should follow their conscience. If they believe that a vote for Brexit will close factories and offices and leave their constituents worse off, then I am sure you will understand that it is rational for them to vote against it.

Mick 13-03-2019 00:03
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35986317)
I have no patience for the ERG at all. Cowards.
What in the heck is this nonsense ?

Are you forgetting that a lot more Remainer MPs rejected this crap deal??

The ERG are certainly not cowards. They are standing tall, voting against something which does not deliver on the referendum result, it was an absolute shoddy deal.

Well done on them for voting against an absolutely shit deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
The truth is any deal will require concessions and pain. They went though the referendum and spend the last three years since talking up a Brexit that was never on the table.
Absolute rubbish, there was no such thing as voting for a deal before and during the referendum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
They were never going to vote for any deal because they don't want to get their hands dirty. I think secretly they want this deal to pass but they wanted it to pass without their votes so they can cry treachery and claim their utopia was thwarted by Parliament.

They would rather risk their entire project than have to have any responsibility for it. If Brexit doesn't happen then Leavers can they can blame Remainers but they can also blame each ERG member who, when it was within their grasp, voted No.
More rubbish - We can blame Remainers anyway - Brexit won and was chosen by a democratic decision, thwarted by a Remainer Prime Minister and Remainer driven Parliament. I've told you before this would have been different if a Brexiteer was in the driving seat, we'd have stood up to those corrupted fools in the EU, but oh no, we have to stay in a disgusting, corrupted union and pay a con job membership fee and for what?...

..Paltry benefits, when we can get them anyway, living by self determination, that is my right as a citizen to live in a truly independent country, instead we're tethered to a corrupted and cancerous EU.

---------- Post added at 00:03 ---------- Previous post was at 00:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35986345)
Every MP should follow their conscience. If they believe that a vote for Brexit will close factories and offices and leave their constituents worse off, then I am sure you will understand that it is rational for them to vote against it.
No factories or offices are closing, more negative Remainer fantansy crap.

1andrew1 13-03-2019 00:11
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35986343)
We were promised we could make our own trade deals. Corbyn's solution doesn't deliver on that and will leave us in a worse position than we are now, taking orders from Brussels.

Come on, Andrew, I'm sure you know the advantages Brexiteers see in leaving and I repeat, Labour's vision simply does not deliver.

Dress it up as you want. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a bloody pig!
We were promised lots of contradictory things and doubtless some people still believe some of it to this day.

I know that the Brexiter Boris Johnson said "F--ck business" but the business fundamentals remain: If you're negotiating with large countries like China and India, being a 65m country is not an advantage compared to being a 500m person trading bloc. So there is no Brexy bonus here, Old Boy.

By not being in a trading bloc, we will have to be a rule-taker. It's all a compromise. You can either be in the club and influence the rules as we have done so on many occasions, or you can sit outside them and accept them. Even then, you can't pick and choose the particular trading bloc's rules you accept as trade is done largely with the countries closest to you, your options are limited. The closest rules a country has to others, the cheaper that goods and services can be provided.

1andrew1 13-03-2019 04:34
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35986347)
No factories or offices are closing, more negative Remainer fantansy crap.
Please re-read my post Mick, nowhere in it do I say they are.

Damien 13-03-2019 07:18
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35986344)
Remain MPs voted against it. How is that supposedly rational, unless they are determined to prevent Brexit? They are determined to overturn the democratic vote.


ERG would've have voted for it, if the backstop had a defined end-date, rather than continue with the nonsense of it ending only if the EU says so.
Obviously Remainers largely voted against it. They don’t want Brexit to happen.

I am calling the ERG cowards because they want it to happen but don’t want any drawbacks to leaving on their hands and want to blame everyone else if Brexit doesn’t live up to their plan.

Nothing is ever their fault. They never seem to take any responsibility. It doesn’t matter what happened or what will happen it will never, ever, be down to them. That’s why they’re cowards.

---------- Post added at 07:18 ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35986347)
.We can blame Remainers anyway - Brexit won and was chosen by a democratic decision, thwarted by a Remainer
Remainers were always going to get blamed anyway. Search my posts after the result and I said when we don’t get the brilliant outcomes the Leave campaign ‘suggested’ that they’ll blame Remainers. The people who ran the campaign don’t have responsibility for enacting it and spent three years running away from it.

May had the task of actually doing it.

1andrew1 13-03-2019 07:34
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35986352)
Obviously Remainers largely voted against it. They don’t want Brexit to happen.

I am calling the ERG cowards because they want it to happen but don’t want any drawbacks to leaving on their hands and want to blame everyone else if Brexit doesn’t live up to their plan.

Nothing is ever their fault. They never seem to take any responsibility. It doesn’t matter what happened or what will happen it will never, ever, be down to them. That’s why they’re cowards.

---------- Post added at 07:18 ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 ----------



Remainers were always going to get blamed anyway. Search my posts after the result and I said when we don’t get the brilliant outcomes the Leave campaign ‘suggested’ that they’ll blame Remainers. The people who ran the campaign don’t have responsibility for enacting it and spent three years running away from it.

May had the task of actually doing it.
Spot on.

Angua 13-03-2019 07:42
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35986352)
Obviously Remainers largely voted against it. They don’t want Brexit to happen.

I am calling the ERG cowards because they want it to happen but don’t want any drawbacks to leaving on their hands and want to blame everyone else if Brexit doesn’t live up to their plan.

Nothing is ever their fault. They never seem to take any responsibility. It doesn’t matter what happened or what will happen it will never, ever, be down to them. That’s why they’re cowards.

---------- Post added at 07:18 ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 ----------



Remainers were always going to get blamed anyway. Search my posts after the result and I said when we don’t get the brilliant outcomes the Leave campaign ‘suggested’ that they’ll blame Remainers. The people who ran the campaign don’t have responsibility for enacting it and spent three years running away from it.

May had the task of actually doing it.
Not sure May was ever truly a Remainer, just using Brexit to cover her xenophobia and cling on to her premiership.

nomadking 13-03-2019 07:52
Re: Brexit
 
Would love to know of an example where the Remain side has done anything to help Brexit and reach an acceptable deal with the EU. They put the EU in driving seat, safe in knowledge they will get whatever they ask for. If the mantra of "No Deal is better than a Bad Deal" had been stuck to, the EU would've had to be more amenable. No Deal isn't good for the EU either.


There is talk of delaying things for just 2 months. That is the margin by which the Remain have stalled everything. Without them there wouldn't need to be a possibility of any delay. Everything would've been in place long before now.

mrmistoffelees 13-03-2019 08:05
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35986358)
Would love to know of an example where the Remain side has done anything to help Brexit and reach an acceptable deal with the EU. They put the EU in driving seat, safe in knowledge they will get whatever they ask for. If the mantra of "No Deal is better than a Bad Deal" had been stuck to, the EU would've had to be more amenable. No Deal isn't good for the EU either.


There is talk of delaying things for just 2 months. That is the margin by which the Remain have stalled everything. Without them there wouldn't need to be a possibility of any delay. Everything would've been in place long before now.
Why would the remain side do anything to facilitate something they so vehemently disagree with?

Perhaps if May had reached out for cross party talks a few months earlier she could of cobbled together something that got a deal through (although i doubt it)

Saying there will be a delay of a couple of months is just daft, we're in deep doo doo and no one has an idea on how to navigate a course through it.


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