Re: Brexit
 

Doesn't matter if it's only 1. The original statement from old boy is wrong.

Re: Brexit
 

But, Andrew, the Customs Union is essentially the common market. Of course leavers voted to leave that too! I can't believe we are still having this conversation!

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:23 ----------

Oh, do pack it in! If you lot think you can speak for all those who voted leave and how they were soooo confused and didn't know that a cross against leave meant leave, then that is true arrogance.

I don't know anyone who voted leave that didn't appreciate what they were voting for. Who are you to know what those who oppose your view were thinking?

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:28 ----------

Oh, do give it a rest, Mythica. You are whining now.

Re: Brexit
 

It’s hardly pure arrogance to say the full consequences of leave weren’t fully quantified. Otherwise we would not have had discussions on Norway model, Canada (and various pluses), EFTA and ultimately WTO terms.

For some people they didn’t consider the consequences beyond reducing immigration and the mythical £350m a week. Which is exactly why we are in the shambles we are in.

One clear agreed vision of Brexit would have been settled 18 months ago.

Re: Brexit
 

If your definition of whining is correcting someone posting something incorrect then I must be whining. I see it as you're just being rude because you realised what you said is incorrect.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

As a leaver, I have not heard anything since I voted that I did not appreciate and I'm sure that most have the same view. Remainers, however, may have had a different experience. I cannot speak for them.

Much is made of the ridiculous allegation that people failed to appreciate that leaving the EU meant leaving the Customs Union. It may be true that some did not know what the customs union was, even though this was mentioned in the literature, but they would all have appreciated that we would be leaving the common market, which is essentially the same thing. Once again, people are trying to confuse the issue.

You say the full consequences of leave were not fully quantified. Well, what exactly did you think would change the minds of those voting leave? The Norway model won't work for us because that would mean we would be rule takers without having any say. Why would we wish to have a different arrangement such as EFTA if it worsened the situation, allowed the continuation of free movement, etc? Canada +++ is what we want from the trade deal, that has never been in dispute.

I'd really like to know what it is in your delusion that makes you believe that leavers did not know what they voted for. Would you care to tell us what, in your wisdom, we do not understand?

We, the leavers, had a very clear vision when we voted leave. Any lack of clarity has been promulgated by remainers. You are all confusing things so much, I don't think you have any clear vision of what you do want. The EU will only hold us back. We need to forge better links with the rest of the world and remove ourselves from the undemocratic Eurocracy.

Re: Brexit
 

My wisdom tells me it’s impossible for you to speak for 17 million people, and that despite it not being stated on the ballot paper you know exactly what they understood ‘leaving’ to mean.

If ‘leave’ means one thing, and one only, why does the Theresa May deal not fit the bill for some yet it does for others? Why does it not fit Liam Fox’s easiest deal in history? Leave has a very broad range of outcomes that all fall under one umbrella.

You understand what you want from leaving. That’s not the same as everyone understanding, let alone agreeing over it.

Re: Brexit
 

the same Norway model that Nigel Farage supported remind everyone what way he voted for again and he not only one that was supporting that on leave side

Re: Brexit
 

We will also be a rule taker in a trade deal with the USA!

Re: Brexit
 

exactly with no say in it at all as they have all the power in the talks but leavers don't get that in EU we get a say on the rules but we wont have for much longer

Re: Brexit
 

Ha ha! I don't, and you don't speak for them either, so no more talk of leavers not knowing what they voted for!

As for Liam Fox, the withdrawal agreement has been pretty straight forward considering the extent of the voices off from the remainers. Only the backstop is getting in the way, but other than that, the withdrawal agreement is just about there.

The other types of leave you envisage do not actually mean 'leave' - they mean a half way house. This is unacceptable to most leavers.

Can you tell me, with supporting evidence if you like, what it is that leavers did not understand?

---------- Post added at 19:12 ---------- Previous post was at 19:11 ----------

You are such a defeatest in everything you touch! Thank God you are not leading us, old chap.

---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

No deal is better than a bad deal, Dave!

Re: Brexit
 

no deal is worst of anything OB and no deal be off the table totally next week by parliament

Re: Brexit
 

During this debate I've said equally that this ill information and bad decision making is applicable at both sides. I'd suggest you go back and read them.

Please do tell me what you think I am? If you actually have the balls too rather than just insinuating as you have done in other posts on this forum.

Re: Brexit
 

But you are.

Just a few posts back you said, "We, the leavers, had a very clear vision when we voted leave."

Re: Brexit
 

If persuasion doesn't work, try a bribe!

Even if this promise is kept after the vote, some areas will have to bid for the money, so aren't guaranteed to get it.

Even if they do, it's a drop in the ocean compared to the massive funding cuts by the Tories in Northern areas.