Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35826389)

Government officials 'hid stats proving there are a MILLION extra EU migrants in Britain'

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/651...er-david-davis

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35826327)

The European Union as a block would be the biggest. Germany is the 4th biggest economy in the world on it's own. France is sixth. The idea we would 'call the shots' with the EU is unrealistic.

Originally Posted by Big Brian (Post 35826382)

Ty for the worm welcome everyone.

Indeed you are correct. We have the advantage that we already trade with the EU. We export 3 times as much to them as they do to us and do people really believe that the EU would completely turn their backs on the UK? I can't see it happening. The reason we export 3 times more than they do to us is we have what they need. Even if that was cut to 30% it would still be a good deal - it's currently around 45% we export to the EU.

In our case, we would be renegotiating our trade agreement not trying to get one with the EU. They are not going to cut off their collective noses to spite their faces.

Other issues like the scaremonger story that the Jungle would move from Calais to Dover is nonsense. That agreement France and the UK have is nothing to do with the EU, it's a private agreement between us and they have already said that agreement still holds if we leave despite what Allonde and Cameron say.

Defence: Does anyone really believe that if we left the EU and the Russians decided to attack us that the USA would allow it? This is another scare story going round from the IN Campaign.

Jobs: Another scare story is that the UK would lose tens of thousands of jobs if we vote to leave the EU. Over the past few weeks all I've seen is the opposite. HSBC decided not to relocate knowing that a Brexit is possible. Amazon are creating a thousand jobs in the Manchester area with plans for more jobs knowing that a Brexit is possible. Where do they get this from?. Sure some firms may relocate but I don't think they will take the jobs with them. As in the case of the threats in the Scottish referendum, it would be the HQ relocating. It will be a safety net in case things go belly up.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35826402)

Ah yes, the Rotterdam effect.

IIRC someone estimated it inflated the EU export figure by around 10 percentage points. Must see if I can dig out a linky.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35826401)

What proportion of those exports to the EU went to Rotterdam and then elsewhere in the world as opposed to actual customers in the EU?

My reasons for leaving the EU have nothing to do with Europe, they have to do with the flawed, bloated, out of touch bureaucracy which runs the EU and has time and time again proved itself to be either inept, duplicitous or even corrupt. Given the fine mess they've created in Europe, I'm wondering just why anyone would vote for more of the same. :confused: When people finally woke up to the mess Labour had made of the UK during their tenure in office they were able to vote them out. They're still out now and thankfully not looking much like making a comeback any time soon. Not so within Eurolalaland where the same faceless suits repeat the same old mistakes year in year out and nobody can do anything about it..

Make no mistake a vote to remain is a vote for more of the same and probably worse since the mere fact that we had the temerity to seek a referendum will be used as a stick to beat us with for years to come.

We have to get out of this mess and I have no doubt that if we do, others will soon follow.

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35826406)

Don't be surprised if all the pro EU sources of that sort of information are down for routine maintenance until July... :D

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35826402)

Ah yes, the Rotterdam effect.

IIRC someone estimated it inflated the EU export figure by around 10 percentage points. Must see if I can dig out a linky.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35826416)

There is a article here about trade: https://fullfact.org/europe/do-half-...rts-go-europe/

It's not unique to Rotterdam, other ports would have the same effect. It does inflate the trade into the EU but it actually could also effect imports from the EU as well:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...m-effect-.html

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35826419)

The giveaway is that if you take the stats at face value, the Netherlands is our third-largest trading partner, which is obvious bollards when you think about it.

The problem is, while it is obvious not everything we send in to Europort is destined for Dutch consumption, it's impossible to put a figure on how big the distortion is, because some of what we send there is indeed intended for the Netherlands, and some of it is for elsewhere in the EU, which means is is legitimate to include it in an overall figure for our exports to the EU.

If you exclude the Netherlands altogether, the percentage of our exports supposedly bound for the EU drops by 10 points. If you assume half of it is genuinely EU bound, then you knock 5 points off the total. We don't know precisely what the effect is, but given the supposed size of our exports to a nation of 16 million, we can say for sure that it does exist.

Originally Posted by techguyone (Post 35826417)

I know the Govt is really dragging its heels over showing how many 'Active Nat Insurance numbers it's given out, which is a disturbing lack of transparency. Especially as the numbers may not match the official 'people - in' figure...

For me the big issue will be that the whole campaign will be like this, with lies or porkies at least told, misinformation & fear.

We're not on a level playing field and its bs

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35826389)

Government officials 'hid stats proving there are a MILLION extra EU migrants in Britain'

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/651...er-david-davis