Re: Coronavirus
 

I always had a bit of fun with those "corridor conferences" - I would suggest that I sent them an email confirming what we had "chatted" about, and they could confirm my understanding… :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you believe a word bozo says you want your head testing, the man is a pathological liar who at times seems to lie for lying's sake, Dom might be an unpleasant individual with scant regard for the truth but when it comes to telling the truth he's a school boy compared to bozos level of dishonesty

Re: Coronavirus
 

They all lie you muppet, and they all cover each others backs during the good times.

However, once the crap hits the fan (or your best mate sacks you) the finger pointing and back stabbing begins, with everyone trying to paint a bigger target on anyone but themselves.

If 'Dom the Magnificent' was really so concerned at the way Covid was being handled, he'd have said so at the time . . and probably gained a little respect for doing so.
As it is, he went along with it, was therefore complicit in it, and only when he found himself out of the 'clique' decided he'd try for a little payback.

He's no better or worse a person than any of them, but he's currently the big media story . . and they're bloody loving it :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm going to try and be as balanced (or perhaps that should be honest) as possible on this.

My dislike for DC is on par with my dislike for Boris & the tories in general.

Do i want DC to to be right? Absolutely

Are there questions to be asked about why he didnt raise the issues at the time (hopefully these will be asked)? Absolutely

Do i think any of this will make a blind bit of difference? Not a chance.... Unless DC has irrefutable proof of the allegations he's making, then all this is just willy waving.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The system completely discarded the experiences being seen elsewhere.

British exceptionalism in action.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment, most of Europe did exactly the same (at least initially) Apart from APAC the rest of the world doesn't have the real world experience in dealing with this type of event.

That's not to say that we didn't screw up, we did & royally so. But we're not the only nation guilty of such.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Don't beat yourself up over it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well this is quite fun!

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think the Dom won't be on Nick Hancock's Christmas card list.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Did he slag off Room 101? ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) put it best

Re: Coronavirus
 

Second jab done.

I had to go to the post office which is in a little shop. They had just had a restock so the aisles were packed with boxes. All 5 of the staff were packing it away. No masks. A guy was at the counter paying-in loads of coin. No mask. As I left, the doorway was blocked by a group of late teenagers, No masks.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It is, isn't it? This is a very different Dominic Cummings that the one we saw in the Number 10 Rose Garden last year. I might not have much time for the chap but he's clearly a very smart man.

Reserving judgement on how much is the truth but if he is spouting BS, he is very, very good at it. If he is lying, I would expect a swift call out of this by the Prime Minister any minute now...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Someone (@garius) I follow on Twitter put it quite well (imho)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Did Matt Hancock run over his dog or something? He's really gunning for him!

---------- Post added at 12:44 ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 ----------

Oh, I never said he had integrity. Or wit, or charm. He's a disruptor and disruptive. I have no doubt that anything he says has an agenda. There is a role for people like that but maybe helping run a country isn't the right one...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

His observations have all been pretty good.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You do get the feeling that he truly believes everything he's saying is accurate. There's not many errs or umms which to me is normally a bit of a give away when someone's sticking to a story as apposed to what they consider the truth as that just flows without much thinking about.

Also, if he is being untruthful you would expect the Government to be falling over themselves to put him in his place. Cynically, it makes me wonder why they haven't .

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Rishi has gone quiet.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Praised by Cummings too.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Now turning the heat up on BoJo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-57245479

Re: Coronavirus
 

He got sacked and is desperate for revenge, it'll be swept under the carped and forgotten about, meanwhile cummings is making himself unemployable.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I would employ him. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

He's trying to set himself up with a job with rishi sunak

Re: Coronavirus
 

DC now talking about British exceptionalism and refusal to learn from abroad. Could almost be jfman speaking!

Re: Coronavirus
 

It'll be interesting to see as the Government stooges that pass for journalists take to the airwaves how often we hear attacks on DC's character as opposed to substantive evidence that what he says is incorrect.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some may think Gove has hired him already. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well that was a hell of a ride. Can't wait for the full rebuttal of his statements soon. My guess is that it will go something like this;

Q - 'What do you say to Dominic Cummings' claims in committee?'
A - 'Vaccines'
Q - 'Yes but what about the claims that Matt Hancock lie...'
A - 'Vaccines'
Q - 'Do you think Boris Johnson is fit to be...'
A - 'Vaccines'

And so on

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah and because of people like you they get away with it, if enough people told them they're not tolerating it things would change but because of people like you trotting out lines like they're all at it we get the politicians we deserve and yet I'm the muppet, perhaps I am I mean honest, honourable MPs is clearly to high an aspiration for this country according to you at least

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bang on...

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s the old "Lügenpresse" approach - make people doubt everything, so they only believe the things that reinforce their existing bias, rather than questioning…

Re: Coronavirus
 

Jesus, sorry I don't follow the herd, apologies for having my own mind and opinion :rolleyes:

never mind though, Dom is doing a grand job preaching to the gullible :p:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yep any one with an IQ lower than their shoe size will swallow his ranting's hook line and sinker, he's even had a go at the dog:erm:

Re: Coronavirus
 

And 12 months ago it was the gospel according to Dom, remoany remainers going after an honest family man.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I believe that in every respect he acted responsibly, legally and with integrity.

Re: Coronavirus
 

12 months ago he was the devils little helper, now he's the second coming...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh no that's the wrong way round.

Boris was the little helper. Dom was the devil.

Re: Coronavirus
 

After he was hounded out :rolleyes:

While in office he went with the flow, any 'whistle blower' with real conviction would do it when he saw (and contributed to) the alleged failings.

oh, and eye test my arse :p:

Re: Coronavirus
 

That was five years ago. He's no longer employed to do that. ;)

---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------

It's worked so far! ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Andrew brings up Brexit again . . will he ever get over it?

Re: Coronavirus
 

No...;)

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:07 ----------

Sounds like DC may well be bringing out a book, after all, he probably needs the money. :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was quoting BoJo… ;)

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:37 ----------

Well, he should take a leaf out of his old boss’s book, and spend three weeks at the start of a pandemic writing it… :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

:D:D:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

There was no indication that it was a quote.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Apologies - I (mistakenly, it appears) thought that since it had been on the front page of the Daily Express (and widely reported elsewhere), you would have remembered it…

Re: Coronavirus
 

There did need to be really, you can't be blamed for not associating bozo with those words

Re: Coronavirus
 

it seems you mistakenly also missed the link to said quote in your original statement.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Has he got a wedding to pay for or something?

Re: Coronavirus
 

DC paying for BoJo's wedding would ceratinly be an unexpected turn of events!

Slightly less unexpected is this headline from Sky News
COVID-19: Matt Hancock fighting for his political life after Dominic Cummings' brutal demolition job

Re: Coronavirus
 

Again, apologies.

I thought the link in my first apology remedied that omission.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Are we doing apologies for inaccuracies in this thread? Wow.... this could take some time.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, I shan’t be going over all of your past posts. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Give me five minutes and I'll do a find and replace on my Hancocks. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

The state broadcaster earning it's (legislative) crust with a weak 'fact check'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/57254305

The whole point of a fact check is surely to identify if the claim is correct or not, as opposed to offer defensive lines for the Government around dubious technicalities. And comparisons to opinion polling - which a know we all love on CF.

Generally most genuine fact checking services offer their own conclusion on the claims made - notably the state broadcaster does not.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well previous behaviour on here suggests you will be pulled up for anything you wrongly suggested / predicted in excess of one year ago.

Re: Coronavirus
 

More recently, as well… ;)

Or are you suggesting that blatant contradictions/falsehoods previously stated by posters should be ignored, in case the posters get upset by someone pointing out their contradictions/falsehoods? :confused:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not quite sure of the posts you are referring to but my mantra has been fairly consistent - lockdowns were always inevitable, Government is broadly incompetent.

Others have clutched at various straws throughout the pandemic burying their heads in the sand from these quite obvious realities.

Any predictions of deaths, hospitalisations etc. are based on the prevailing circumstances at the time - not with the foresight of the many interventions the Government have made throughout the last 15 months.

Re: Coronavirus
 

*gasp* you mean SAGE got it wrong too?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Can we keep this thread for Coronavirus news updates, please, and put any further comments about Dominic Cummings and the Committee hearings in a separate thread (see below)


https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33710049

Re: Coronavirus
 

1 in 10 hospitalisations with Indian variant have been "double jabbed". Oh dear.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But only 10 hospitalisations so that's 1 person. That figure on it's own really isn't helpful or useful.

Re: Coronavirus
 

don't destroy the narrative.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's the way he tells em :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Considering that the Pfizer vaccine is 88% effective against that strain, sounds about right...

https://www.politico.eu/article/what...ant-in-the-uk/

This is why I will still be social distancing/wearing a mask in shops, even though I have had two jabs - the vaccine reduces the risk, not eliminates it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not helpful at all without the context of when and how far apart the jabs were and when was the last given.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bolton who were the first to be badly hit by this new variant do not have an in depth breakdown on the Vaccine status of those who have been admitted to hospital but they have published full figures of how the virus is effecting their area.

BOLTON JOINT STRATEGIC NEEDS ASSESSMENT

I guess we will just have to wait a tad longer to hear how the increased cases of Covid 19 versus vaccines/lack of is effecting the NHS

Re: Coronavirus
 

If there's one thing I'm certain of it's that the Covid deniers/downplayers of the forum aren't going to destroy anything other than any reasonable prospects of getting out of lockdown/restrictions soon.

Vaccine escape is already here. Further mutations are only going to cause vaccine efficacy to diminish further.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Based on what evidence, exactly? The data available for the Indian variant is consistent with a high degree of vaccine effectiveness. You haven’t provided anything to show otherwise.

What the Indian variant does is spread extremely quickly. That isn’t the same thing as vaccine escape.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No COVID deniers on this forum I know of.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Covid-19 death stats for UK ethnic Britons, compared to white Britons.

Bangladeshi men x4.96
Bangladeshi women x4.11
Pakistani men x3.40
Pakistani women x2.84
Black African men x2.16
Indian men x1.95
Black Caribbean men x1.69
Black Caribbean women x1.69
Black African women x1.62
Indian women x1.57
Mixed race men x1.39
Mixed race women x1.36
Chinese men x1.11
Chinese women x0.92


Office for National Statistics (ONS)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Different variants are pushing down the effectiveness of the vaccine and people who have had vaccines are now being hospitalised These are statements of fact.

What we don't have is 100% vaccine escape but that's simply a matter of time really. Restrictions will be here for some time on that basis.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So vaccine escape actually isn’t here after all. Glad we agree on that.

The statistics for hospitalisation with regards to the Indian variant are nowhere near vaccine escape. 88% protection from Pfizer is excellent performance by any measure. At the outset of this pandemic nobody would have complained at a vaccine with Oxford-Astra’s 60% effectiveness either - 60% is about as effective as a flu jab ever gets.

Sure, vaccine escape is likely in time. That’s how life works. But in the meantime, you might try to sound less gleeful at the prospect.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm far from gleeful, but as your own figures demonstrate we are some considerable distance from the herd immunity threshold.

The same principle applies that there is no living with the virus. The Indian variant and others will be given hundreds of thousands, if not millions of opportunities to further mutate without ongoing restrictions.

Defining vaccine escape as reducing vaccine efficacy to zero is needless semantics and doesn't change the inevitability of all of this.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well phrased... ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Who defined it that way?

Re: Coronavirus
 

You appear to have.

Her Majesty's Government appear to define it as reducing efficacy and have published papers around different variants of concern on that basis

Re: Coronavirus
 

No, sorry ... no matter how hard I look at that post I can’t see “vaccine escape equals zero efficacy”, or anything remotely like it.

What I can see is an assertion that efficacy in the 60s to 80s % does not represent vaccine escape. Because it doesn’t.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think the virus did a marvelous job of mutating even with restrictions :p:

If . . IF . . we end up with lock down after lock down, or ongoing restrictions that reduce my enjoyment of life (poor wording but you get the gist), then I'd want all travel to & from the UK stopped - totally - in order to prevent another mutation coming in from elsewhere :p:

Of course, that's never going to happen is it . . so where/when do we draw the line on restrictions & lock downs?

I think most of the Country have had enough already.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m sorry but that’s just semantics. A mutation that reduces efficacy from “90%+” in the AstraZeneca vaccine to 60% represents a significant reduction, leaving millions more people at risk of exposure than the original road map projected.

The Government need to have an honest conversation about what restrictions will be needed and look like through the rest of 2021 until booster vaccines roll out.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Amazing how many virologists we have posting in this thread.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Let's just accept the fact that an annual covid-x vaccination is going to be as normal as the flu jab for those most at risk.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You don’t need to be a virologist to know the same decision making process that led to every lockdown to date still applies until there is sufficient (and lasting) immunity in the population.

There is no living with the virus.

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ----------

A certainty. The question is what to do between now and then.

Re: Coronavirus
 

imagine what it would have been like without restrictions…:shocked:

Re: Coronavirus
 

In a couple of weeks we might find out.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ffs talk about the end of the world and we are all doomed, negativity at its best from you as usual!

Re: Coronavirus
 

When I see a reason for optimism you will all be the first to know. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

That’ll be never, then. :sleep:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Do the figures that we have just now, with the low hospitalisations, the vaccine rollout, not give you at least a wee glimmer of optimism?

Re: Coronavirus
 

These ones?
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/sta...810818/photo/1

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Australian estimates put the R number of the Indian variant somewhere between 7 and 8. The numbers fully vaccinated will dent that somewhat but at 60% efficacy there’s enough vulnerable 60+ (or under with underlying health issues) year olds still susceptible for the NHS to be overwhelmed quickly if we open everything back up with no restrictions.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But the hotspots aren't static

https://covid.joinzoe.com/data gives a good guide a week or so ahead of the official figures

Gloucester and Stratford-on-Avon? :shocked:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well that’s unfortunate for you then.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Au contraire, Pierre.

We’ve done this dance before so we can just wait and see. Boris will bottle it from your perspective. Even Pfizering the kids still won’t get to the herd immunity threshold.

That’s my line.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well . . . (or not) . . if we're doomed let's party :D

We may as well have a little fun before the economy collapses around our heads and anarchy takes hold

:beer: :drunk: :ghugs: :cleader:

:PP:

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's the CDC and EMA both approved the Pfizer vaccine for 12-15 year olds in an important step towards the herd immunity threshold.

Interesting to see what we do with our 60 million order for September. Do you give them to the folk that had the Astrazenica vaccine in older age groups or do you acknowledge the role of schools in widespread community transmission and try to drive down infections that way.