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-   -   Black Lives Matter (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709106)

downquark1 25-06-2020 13:59
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Well concerns about jury contamination are entirely valid unfortunately.

nomadking 25-06-2020 14:10
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by downquark1 (Post 36041141)
Well concerns about jury contamination are entirely valid unfortunately.
:confused: Nothing to do with any fictitious jury contamination. Anything other than a full on guilty verdict is just not going to be allowed.


The "fascist" forces have well and truly been unleashed. All downhill from now on.

Maggy 25-06-2020 14:17
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36041143)
:confused: Nothing to do with any fictitious jury contamination. Anything other than a full on guilty verdict is just not going to be allowed.


The "fascist" forces have well and truly been unleashed. All downhill from now on.
So to sum up we might as well do nothing at all and just give up and leave it alone.

tweetiepooh 25-06-2020 14:18
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36041074)
Should really be black lettering.
Black on White or White on Black?

Pierre 25-06-2020 14:20
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36041143)
:confused: Nothing to do with any fictitious jury contamination. Anything other than a full on guilty verdict is just not going to be allowed.


The "fascist" forces have well and truly been unleashed. All downhill from now on.
The issue is though, no matter what he did before being restrained, the way he was restrained was unacceptable.

Now, the he acted can be brought forward as mitigation into the way the cops handled it but they are guilty of accidental death, and the fact that they ignored his pleas that he couldn't breath the prosecution may even ask for the accidental part be removed.

Even without the sideshow, if the facts were brought before any jury, I would expect them to be found guilty of whatever the US version of accidental death is.

Carth 25-06-2020 14:44
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
I wonder how they're going to find 12 impartial people for the jury?

nomadking 25-06-2020 14:55
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36041146)
The issue is though, no matter what he did before being restrained, the way he was restrained was unacceptable.

Now, the he acted can be brought forward as mitigation into the way the cops handled it but they are guilty of accidental death, and the fact that they ignored his pleas that he couldn't breath the prosecution may even ask for the accidental part be removed.

Even without the sideshow, if the facts were brought before any jury, I would expect them to be found guilty of whatever the US version of accidental death is.
But who was guilty and of what? The only person who could even remotely be charged with murder, is Kueng. The reason he needed to be restrained was because of HIS behaviour. How else was he going to be restrained? Even in the fictitious scenario of him not needing to be restrained, how exactly do you restrain somebody, in order the stop them injuring others or themselves? The police officers didn't do it for fun.:rolleyes: As I said, the police are instructed to ignore bogus pleas, especially ones able to be made 16 times. At no point did he indicate he was going to go quietly.

papa smurf 25-06-2020 17:33
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36041152)
I wonder how they're going to find 12 impartial people for the jury?
Already tried and convicted in the court of public opinion , no justice just mob rule.

Carth 25-06-2020 17:47
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36041179)
Already tried and convicted in the court of public opinion , no justice just mob rule.

My thoughts entirely to be honest. I'm sure we will all be treated to the 'trial of the decade' streamed live . . on every channel apart from . . . err . . um . . a couple of the food channels :rolleyes:

papa smurf 25-06-2020 18:56
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Interesting video showing why Black lives are so special

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews...ndishes-sword/

Taf 25-06-2020 18:57
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36041179)
Already tried and convicted in the court of public opinion , no justice just mob rule.
Trial by (biased) news media.

Pierre 25-06-2020 18:57
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36041156)
But who was guilty and of what? The only person who could even remotely be charged with murder, is Kueng. The reason he needed to be restrained was because of HIS behaviour. How else was he going to be restrained? Even in the fictitious scenario of him not needing to be restrained, how exactly do you restrain somebody, in order the stop them injuring others or themselves? The police officers didn't do it for fun.:rolleyes: As I said, the police are instructed to ignore bogus pleas, especially ones able to be made 16 times. At no point did he indicate he was going to go quietly.
There’s 4no. Police officers with guns. cuff him , hands behind back, and sit him on his arse. Looking at the shape of he wouldn’t have been able to get up.

They failed, visibly, in their duty of care to somebody being detained - there is no way around it.

nomadking 25-06-2020 19:25
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36041206)
Interesting video showing why Black lives are so special

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews...ndishes-sword/
Other aspect to it.
Link
Quote:
Twenty-two police officers have been injured during clashes at an illegal street party involving an estimated 400 people in south London.
Two officers and two people at the party were taken to hospital following the "unlicensed music event" in Brixton on Wednesday night.
Four people were arrested and the Met described the attacks on police as "totally unacceptable".


---------- Post added at 18:25 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36041208)
There’s 4no. Police officers with guns. cuff him , hands behind back, and sit him on his arse. Looking at the shape of he wouldn’t have been able to get up.

They failed, visibly, in their duty of care to somebody being detained - there is no way around it.
In what way do suggest they use their guns?:rolleyes:
How would simply handcuffing him, with hands behind the back, stopped him from thrashing around, especially using his legs and/or spitting. He was already handcuffed, hands behind the back, and sitting(or trying to be sat) in the patrol car. At some point, they had to be able to get him in that car, and down to the station. He might've been interviewed by the Secret Service. He was accused of a Federal offence.

Short of using Chloroform, what else were they expected to do?

Pierre 25-06-2020 19:54
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
In what way do suggest they use their guns?:rolleyes:
I didn’t say they should use them. The fact they have them is a deterrent. Is the point I was making.

Quote:
How would simply handcuffing him, with hands behind the back, stopped him from thrashing around, especially using his legs and/or spitting
. He can thrash around as much as he likes on his arse, I reckon he would have about 90 seconds in him before he was blowing out his backside.

Quote:
He was already handcuffed, hands behind the back, and sitting(or trying to be sat) in the patrol car. At some point, they had to be able to get him in that car, and down to the station.
They should have waited until he was compliant or called for more offices and put him in a van like they do here.



Quote:
He might've been interviewed by the Secret Service. He was accused of a Federal offence.

Short of using Chloroform, what else were they expected to do?
not kill him would be the starting point.

You’re trying to defend the indefensible.

I’m sure there are lots of scenarios that could have taken place that didn’t result in his death

nomadking 25-06-2020 20:54
Re: Black Lives Matter
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36041213)
I didn’t say they should use them. The fact they have them is a deterrent. Is the point I was making.

. He can thrash around as much as he likes on his arse, I reckon he would have about 90 seconds in him before he was blowing out his backside.

They should have waited until he was compliant or called for more offices and put him in a van like they do here.

not kill him would be the starting point.

You’re trying to defend the indefensible.

I’m sure there are lots of scenarios that could have taken place that didn’t result in his death
Why mention guns if you're not expecting them to use them in some way?:rolleyes: A deterrent is only a deterrent, if you're prepared to use it? Are you really saying they should've been prepared to shoot him?:shocked:

Thrashing around in a confined space is not a good idea. If only for that person's own safety.
Difficult to be expected to come up with examples.
In the REAL WORLD.
Link
Quote:
ALBANY — A man arrested by Albany police who was being transported by detectives in an unmarked car injured himself during an agitated back seat outburst and was taken by ambulance to Albany Medical Center with minor injuries Friday afternoon
Link
Quote:
Williams began trying to knock out the side window by repeatedly hitting it with his head.
...
The coroner ruled that Williams's death was the type of sudden death that occurs in individuals that are markedly agitated and are physically restrained.
UK ACPO advice
Quote:
A violent or restrained detainee must not be placed in a police vehicle unsupervised. Detainees who have struggled violently should not be placed in a vehicle unrestrained.
...
Where a detainee becomes violent, staff should, where practicable,
stop the vehicle, regain control and only then resume the journey; it may be necessary to call for assistance and to change to a more
suitable vehicle.
What should they have whilst waiting for any fictional van? Let him run away? Even in a van he would've needed restraining.

Plenty of examples of where UK Police have had to use force.


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