Cable Forum - Russia has invaded Ukraine

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- - Russia has invaded Ukraine (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710768)

Mick	07-03-2022 19:27

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

1 Attachment(s)

NOTE: I have to say I would not always link to or show offensive language… but I can make an exception….

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1646681210

Mick	07-03-2022 19:37

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Reuters: NEW: The U.S may ban Russian oil imports without Europe.

The U.S. is willing to ban Russian oil imports into the country without the participation of its European allies, according to the sources cited by Reuters.

---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Senior Pentagon official: Nearly 100% of Russia’s combat power already in Ukraine.

According to a U.S. defense official cited by CNN, Russia has already launched more than 625 missiles against Ukraine. He also said that Ukraine has enough surface-to-air weapons for protection. - Kyiv Independent.

Pierre

07-03-2022 20:10

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36115849)

Are you joking?

He already has Crimea
The two other provinces he already had, in regards that Ukraine wasn’t in charge of them and he was funding rebels.
If he agrees to immediately withdraw then no further military action is required, anyway.

The only actual demand that is required onerous is the change in the constitution that effectively bars them from joining the EU and NATO.

I think to end it, that is a price worth paying as there are ways around it going forward.

Quote:

So Ukraine just let’s Putin think he’s won, Putin can’t be seen to lose and he’s lost this war, sure he’s got a massive nuclear arsenal but that’s no good to him, when it involves Armageddon. So he’s now got to save face and he has to walk away with some kind of win to stay in power.

That is absolutely the case.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:09 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36115850)

I wouldn't accept them.

They may not have a choice

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36115852)

I don't think Ukraine will either. Perhaps a counter would be to allow Russia to lease the Crimea naval base.

Why would Russia lease it when it’s been in their possession for 8 yrs?

Hugh	07-03-2022 20:13

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

If he gets away with this, Moldova will be next, then Ukraine again, then he’ll try one of the ex-Sov Republics that in NATO (Latvia, Lithuania, etc.) - he’ll keep pushing, because that’s what bullies do…

He’s previously stated he intends to get all the ex-Sov Republics (and more) into a “Great Russian Empire" - he won’t stop until he’s stopped.

Pierre

07-03-2022 20:14

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36115870)

Exactly, he is trying to find a way out. He can't be allowed to have this invasion pay off with more land and force a sovereign state to adopt his foreign policy. It's up to Ukraine who they ally with.

You have to give him a way out, or this continues.

Jaymoss

07-03-2022 20:15

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115884)

But it could slow hm down and get him out and about long enough for a joint intelligence operation to put a bullet in his head

GrimUpNorth

07-03-2022 20:15

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

I think it'll be no deal. They were saying on CNN today (don't have a link and may not be accurate) they were getting word that in places Ukraine was pushing back especially where Russia has pushed forward leaving the remaining troops a bit thin on the ground.

Pierre

07-03-2022 20:19

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115884)

He won’t surrender, so this continues unless he’s replaced or a negotiated settlement is conducted.

1andrew1

07-03-2022 20:23

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36115870)

I doubt they would trust Putin's Russia. Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons for the promise that their borders would be intact and this promise was not honoured.

Pierre

07-03-2022 20:25

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36115889)

this promise was not honoured.

By the US, U.K. and Russia

1andrew1

07-03-2022 20:39

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36115890)

By the US, U.K. and Russia

Just the last country on the list. The UK and US have not violated Ukraine's territory.

And Gorbachev is on record as being happy for Poland etc to join NATO in case you're eluding to that particular myth espoused by Putin and his friends.

Hugh	07-03-2022 21:04

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36115886)

But it could slow hm down and get him out and about long enough for a joint intelligence operation to put a bullet in his head

Real life isn’t a Tom Clancy book…

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36115893)

As was posted in this thread on the 24th February

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36114518)

Refutation of the common misconception (mentioned by Vlad in his "justification of invasion" speech) that NATO would not expand Eastward.

Quote:

The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years. … Another issue we brought up was discussed: making sure that NATO’s military structures would not advance and that additional armed forces would not be deployed on the territory of the then-GDR after German reunification. Baker’s statement was made in that context… Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”

“The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.”

This statement is from someone who was there, and instrumental in the treaty negotiations - Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev...

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fr...achev-says-no/

This article is from over 7 years ago, so history is not being "rewritten" to justify current events (unlike with Putin's speeches).

Damien

07-03-2022 21:04

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36115885)

You have to give him a way out, or this continues.

This isn't giving him a way out, it's giving him a huge victory. One of the conditions will almost certainly be that sanctions are removed as well. So he would have won a compliant government in Ukraine, Crimea officially recognised as Russian and two new puppet 'independent' states. Huge success for Putin and a reward for his aggression.

It has to stop. We can't keep making concessions to his violence and bullying. It has ramifications beyond Ukraine to all of Europe. He'll just do it again and once again it'll be 'Well, you need to give him something'. We need him to lose and be seen to lose. Even if he gets the above via violence at least the sanctions will damage Russia's economy to the point it cost too much and not only does it make him think twice about another invasion but Russia won't have the economic ability to wage another war.

Pierre

07-03-2022 21:05

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36115893)

Just the last country on the list. The UK and US have not violated Ukraine's territory.

But they promised it’s security……….