Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We have a trade deficit with Germany. But if you are seriously saying that Germany imports 0% from the U.K. you are wrong.

https://oec.world/en/profile/bilater...br/partner/deu

The “latest trend” section gives recent data from March ‘23.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Think the post shows the change, but haven't read the tweet so can't say for sure.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yes, this is change in trade. Here's the origin article: https://www.destatis.de/EN/Press/202...23_215_51.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Ok, but then these are all % so I’d have to look at the actual volumes to have a relevant opinion on it. Which I can’t be arsed to do.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No, percentage changes for peer economies work very well.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Brexit means prices are 4% higher
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/othe...8ebb6f54&ei=26

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Very soon there will be nobody of any standing in public life who campaigned to leave. With a fresh slate, falling living standards and economic decline it’ll only be natural for the question to get asked.

Unless anyone can actually name a single tangible benefit of not having a closer economic relationship with the EU it becomes inevitable.

The moonbeams of a trade deal with the USA and China (:rofl: remember that classic) are long gone. Many Brexit voters will be long in the ground before benefits are realised (it was Rees Mogg that suggested 50 years after all, and the minimum voting age of 18 and life expectancy in the high 70s it means the chances of seeing the benefits of Brexit (2076) is down there with seeing Halley’s Comet (2061).

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The only benefit l can think of is those shiny new blue passports.;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Those bloody new passports are useless, the EU-ers kick you out of EU in 90 days.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Back then yes, hypothetically what do you think would be the result of a rerun?. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" springs to mind......

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No body is perfect.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Indeed they did but many now are starting to have huge pangs of bregret given the catastrophic mess the government has made of it since the referendum.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

All my family has EU ID cards, we can leave anytime, for as long we like but come back to our Surrey, anytime. BTW one of my kids has French ID, I know you love the Frogs;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The ones made in Holland and Poland :shocked: :rolleyes:

Let me guess, they all knew they were voting for this...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Opinion polls aim to show this - this one says 61% rejoin which seems quite high.

https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies....-17-june-2023/

Three Prime Ministers have tried to make Brexit a success and failed. For one simple reason - you can't polish a turd.

One way for you to judge whether it's a success or not is to return to why David Cameron called the referendum in the first place: to cure the divisions in the Conservative Party. One simple test: Has Brexit cured the divisions in the Party? Yes or no?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I doubt we will see a rejoin referendum any time soon. It’d be unlikely to happen in the first five years of a Labour Government as unlikely to make the manifesto. But once you get into the one after that. Preparations and a campaign would be a couple of years so 2033, negotiations and accession 2035 at fastest. We could be in a whole new world by then - you might not even use channel numbers on TV - life could be revolutionised!

Far more likely to see further economic harmonisation and trade short of membership.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Agreed.

Then it will tip into wanting a seat at the table and 20 years hence we'll be leading Europe again and enjoying a stronger currency. Illegal crossings from France will be a fraction of what they are today as we return them swiftly back to France.

Or perhaps we'll settle for a half-in, half out approach. Either way, you can't fight basic economics for too long.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Similarly can’t beat demographics you can only hold it back so long.

Sure, to date the Ponzi scheme has dragged younger generations to the right as they get older, however in a recession, in a country getting poorer and with reduced opportunities that’ll be harder than ever.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I can see as usual, the boring folk, formerly known as Remainiacs, now rejoiners, preaching on about voting the wrong way, being fooled in to voting this way, you need to shut up, I won’t have anyone tell me such bullshit, I still stand by, we do not need to be in the corrupted EU, Germany in recession, France rioting itself in to civil war.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nobody said anyone voted the wrong way or that anyone was fooled.

What’s undoubtedly true is that the current Government have been absolutely incapable of delivering any benefits. It’s all eggs in the Starmer basket from here on in.

Just as joining the EU was revisited over time, ultimately in a democracy leaving the EU and the bad Brexit deal will inevitably be reviewed once it’s politically palatable and future generations decide for themselves.

In the 2030s howling that it’s “overturning democracy” won’t wash. People are living through the highest inflation and the biggest fall in living standards. Wherever there is a Brexit dividend it’s more likely to be experienced offshore than on these shores.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

As jfman has pointed out, no one has said that. The only explanation is that it's come from your subconscious.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think Sir Keir is quite happy have a low-policy manifesto so can't see this being included but once in power...
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/ke...brexit-2454262

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If someone is going to u-turn on a commitment, it’s him. Once half the Tories get their P45 next winter the voices howling in opposition will be marginalised.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Make no commitments and a have a policy-light manifesto and no one can complain when you gain power!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Oh really, so WTF is this bullshit from daveb on about then?

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=5212

---------- Post added at 01:16 ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 ----------

Yes they have. See above, open your eyes 👀 FFS. :dozey:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So one single example of a remoaner etc.

Good to know the rest of us are on solid ground calling this out for what it is - a Tory pup.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You said there was none! You lied.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It’s more likely I glanced past such a glib remark rather than outright lied. However, it’s not really relevant to the point at hand. How’s your confidence level in Starmer making a success of Brexit?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The only people I have confidence in making a success of Brexit are Macron, Scholz and Varadkar.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well he either needs better trading terms with the EU and/or a big trade deal. We were meant to replace the loss of trade with the EU with a US trade deal. Didn't happen.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Also with India and China. Didn't happen.

It was a gamble that didn't work.

How much more inflation and how many more small boat migrants do we need to prove this?
- Inflation: We're currently three percentage points above the Eurozone.
- Small boat migrants: Record numbers are coming into the UK on small boats - they know we can no longer send them back to France.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It was an example that proved you wrong. Nifty dodge, though, you’re good at that.

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

Yes, the President changed. Biden doesn’t do trade deals. Too much brain work.

---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

Relationships with China have changed. India is negotiating. These things take time.

https://www.india-briefing.com/news/...ta-25699.html/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Thanks for info on India.
I'm not sure "too much brain work" is a valid reason for the absence of a US trade deal.

---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

More winners from Brexit.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/othe...5ee7d08f0&ei=5

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I’m sure as someone with excessive experience in being wrong you can appreciate it’s a minor infraction.

So at best it was a 50/50 relying on a mentally unhinged President being re-elected.

Relationships have changed that’s quite the understatement. Hey, ho. How’s your faith in Starmer’s Brexit coming along? Do you believe enough for it to be a success?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Biden has stated he doesn't want any trade deals during his presidency. He is only prepared to negotiate industry by industry.

That should be easier for the poor old codger to cope with.

---------- Post added at 18:01 ---------- Previous post was at 17:53 ----------

So was Boris's cake ambush. But that's different, of course. He's fair game these days.

Which mentally unhinged President are you talking about?


Yes, things change. That's the way of the world, I'm afraid.

As for Starmer and Brexit, no, he will make a right pig's ear of it. He will probably get us signed up to to the customs union, the worst of all worlds.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What if you just believed a bit more, OB would they create success?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Some good news on the um, horizon.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ogramme-brexit

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Just checking you do realise the president doesn't actually do the negotiating himself?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I do, indeed, Grim. Very perceptive of you. He still has to understand what he is signing, though, and be able to answer questions on it. Ideally, he should also be able to understand whether any agreement is actually in the best interests of his country..

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:rofl: address my points OB or just stand down.

We are all team Starmer now after all, only he can save us from a mediocre Brexit. Things change is an inadequate excuse for mediocre policymaking.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Johnson, Frost, Hannan and Farage all campaigned to remain in the Single Market. so we would be closer to respecting the will of the 2016 electorate if we did this and not Johnson's inflationary hard Brexit.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The economic cost of Tory Brexit to date almost mandates it.

It’d be useful to the “outers” if they could refer to a single area, upon assuming full legislative competence, the UK Government has acted in an area with obvious tangible benefit to the population at large.

Otherwise there’s a significant proportion of the population looking at the erosion of their rights, working conditions and living standards asking who was supposed to benefit.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It should also have passed Old Boy's test.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You wonder if anyone is looking out for the best interests of this country - it certainly isn’t the Conservative Party. Dividends at water companies while record amounts of human excrement released into our waterways. Bailing out train operators. The energy price cap to funnel money into energy companies profits rather than invest in our own Great British energy infrastructure.

We are being mugged in plain sight. And our fellow subjects of His Majesty are complicit for permitting it at the ballot box. (For the avoidance of doubt, I refer to general elections, not any referendums in this statement).

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If only your lot had used the old understand what you are signing approach and checking if it's in the best interests of the country, when it came to the divorce settlement with the EU.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Comedy gold here!
https://www.ft.com/content/71fab292-...b-7a1390903325

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

But do you not understand that it's the EU that is causing the friction? All we want is to be able to trade freely with the rest of the world and not be caught up with their politics.

---------- Post added at 08:34 ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 ----------

Really?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-ITV-Peston-vn

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Might as well add a unicorn to the wish list. Can we have free trade with everyone, with all the advantages, no disadvantages and we make the rules despite being the smallest economy at the table in every meaningful discussion. :rofl:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You know as well as I do that all we were looking for was to pull out of the EU with a trade deal, which would have been mutually beneficial.

You are trying to big this up into something it isn’t. Canada has one, but we are being penalised because we were in the EU and have now left.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Do you really believe someone who when questioned on coming out of the Russian Embassy told reporters he' forgotten the reason for his visit? Or held an account at Coutts, worked in the City for 20 years and didn't know that there were eligibility criteria around holding an account at Coutts?.

Really?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Who is this “we” you speak of?

Any literature giving a comprehensive view of what our relationship with the EU would look like that predates the referendum is notably absent. Norway, the EEA, a customs union all floated at some point or another from the charlatans that claimed to be steering the leave campaign.

There’s no evidence to support your spurious assertion that we are being “penalised”. You are simply trying to shift the blame for the inadequacies of this Government onto someone else. A staple of your input into the current affairs section.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Your disgraced Boris Johnson took us out of Thatcher's Single Market. If he wanted frictionless trade, this was not the way to go about it!

How is our trade deal with the EU any worse than Canada's?

It's a perverse approach. The Conservatives have held power since 2010 but Old Boy seeks to blame everyone but them. This blame-everyone-but-those-in-charge-approach wouldn't last five minutes in the real world!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

He says he didn’t ever say that we should have remained in the Customs Union, you say he did.

Where’s your evidence that he’s telling porkies? The fact that you may not lie him, agree with him or believe anything he says is not evidence.

You are the one who said he did. Why?

---------- Post added at 16:41 ---------- Previous post was at 16:33 ----------

‘We’ as a country. Or at least the majority of voters who voted, but I was of course referring to the government.

If you cannot understand the straight forward point that we were penalised then clearly you are a remainer who is wedded ideologically with the concept and ideology of the EU, in which case no amount of explaining is going to shift your opinion.

If we were to be in the Customs Union it would restrict our freedom to trade the way we want with the rest of the world and that, my friend, is unreasonable. No other trade deals anywhere else in the world contain such unreasonable restrictions.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We're discussing the Single Market, not the Customs Union.

As I said old Boy, why do you trust someone who's known for bending the truth? Do you not think that's a bit risky, even if you find his populistic approach easy on the ear?

Some evidence, particularly 01:16
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b09025ba310fce

Also: https://bbench.co.uk/2021/09/22/the-...single-market/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Wasn’t Government policy to remain in the referendum?

It’s not a “straight forward point” if it’s merely an opinion without any evidence upon which to base your claim.

It’s unreasonable to expect to gain all the benefits of being in a club you’ve left without actually being in it, my friend.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So your evidence is based on this one quote, which was Farage trying to make a point:

“would it be so bad if, according to Mr Cameron, if we behave like Norway, life would be terrible. I mean, God, we’d all be rich! we were like Norway. We’d be rich”.

He was referring to the nonsense of the statement made by Cameron about Norway. Now the mischief makers have turned that into an allegation that Farage wanted to stay within the single market!

Staying within the Single Market was never an option for Brexiteers because it would involve the free movement of people. It also involves abiding by EU laws and accepting judgements of the ECJ.

Finally, I was not asking you about whether or not Farage was telling the truth. You avoided the question, which was where was your proof that he said that.

Your example(s) (they both contain the same quote) do not prove your point at all.

---------- Post added at 20:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:12 ----------

It was prior to but not after the referendum.

I think the evidence is that we have not been able to secure a Canadian type trade deal. You know this to be true, so why do you perversely act as if you don’t know what I am talking about?

It is unreasonable when trade deals are being offered to other countries but not ours. My friend.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

OB the problem isn’t that I don’t know what you are talking about, it’s that YOU don’t know what you are talking about.

On what basis do you profess that we should automatically have had the right to a Canada type deal? None whatsoever.

The whole point of the Canada trade deal is to improve trade with Canada which already has a significant barrier to overcome - the Atlantic Ocean. In no way, shape or form can trade between Canada and the EU be considered comparable to the UK and the EU.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Watch the recording - Farage said "We'll find ourselves part of the European Economic Area, and with a free trade deal."

Watch the recording and hear the Brexiters lining up to contradict you.

Dan Hannan, Vote Leave "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market"

Owen Paterson "Only a madman would leave the Market."

Arron Banks "Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK."
Will you be a gentleman and accept you are wrong?

How many more examples do you want? The one above in which Farage says we'll find ourselves part of the European Economic Area suffices.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yes, I will, sorry. We are at cross purposes. When these comments were made Farage and the others were simply saying that there was no reason why Britain could not continue to have free access to the Single Market because all our standards were in line with theirs.

What they were not saying was that we would have to accept free movement and the rest. But unfortunately, that is what the EU insisted on, and we were in no position to press our views home because firstly Theresa May lost her nerve with David Davis as he was holding out, and she stepped in to negotiate her way, and secondly, the hostility and determination of the Remainers, who were even briefing the EU against us.

Farage and co were not lying, they were simply undermined in the end by opposing forces which made it impossible to negotiate effectively. And that, of course was why Johnson said in the end that the deal would be better renegotiated when we were outside of the EU.

As for whether that will be done rather more successfully, I guess it depends on who is in power and in charge of this country at the time.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That’s a long winded way of either saying they are idiots or liars.

Anyone who seriously claimed we could have had the benefits of being in the Single Market without recognising the supremacy of EU in setting those rules (and the role of the ECJ in enforcing them) can only be one or the other.

Invoking remainers is nothing but whataboutery. The EU rationally negotiated, in it’s own interests. Something that should have come as a shock to absolutely no-one.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You are not listening - you never do. Farage and co said what they believed was possible. The fact that it was tackled the wrong way does not make him a liar. That is a very perverse logic.

I might tell my wife that it is possible to carry a certain amount of cups and plates on a tray. If she trips and falls and breaks everything, does that make me a liar? Of course not. I might tell my grandson that he is capable of passing an examination, but if he doesn’t study enough and he fails, does that make me a liar?

I ‘invoked’ remainers because they were so intent on wrecking the negotiations as they wanted to get their own way. Your ‘invoking’ the whataboutery card is nonsense because it was those activities which were largely responsible for disruption to the negotiations. It is a reason, not a ‘whataboutery’. People tend to use ‘whataboutery’ to prevent a logical argument highlighting an alternative they don’t like, because it neuters their own argument. It’s the coward’s way out of a discussion.

The EU was not irrational in trying that line with us, I agree, and I didn’t say otherwise. Theresa May took the rug from under the feet of the Brexiteers, and that was the first thing that put us on the back foot, which was a gift the the remain lobby.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The irony you say I don’t listen then completely ignore that I offered two options.

I fail to see how anyone outside of Government could have any influence on negotiations at all. The Conservatives own this.

I’m not even sure what you are trying to say here. The Conservatives chose May. Prominent members of her Cabinet have served throughout to this day.

Your attempts at deflection are as transparent as they are tedious.

The EU acted entirely rationally. They’ve been underestimated throughout. None of this is a surprise to anyone who wasn’t blinkered by ideology.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The other being that they are idiots? I didn’t ignore that, I treated it with the disdain it deserved. People aren’t idiots or liars simply because they disagree with your point of view.

I’ve answered that, but clearly you want us to forget what the remainers did. Brexiteers have not forgotten.



You are repeating yourself and I have already agreed with you that the EU acted rationally from their perspective. The thing you won’t acknowledge is the role of the remainers at the time, who did their absolute best to sabotage the whole thing, despite the result of the referendum.

Yes, the Conservatives chose May, but clearly, you cannot know in advance what the elected leader will do. That’s on her, and it was the start of her downfall.

The only deflection going on is yours, because you lay every problem we have at the door of the Conservatives without acknowledging the role others played in attempting to wreck the deal that was required.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

How else would you describe people who were consistently wrong? Relatable?

:rofl: and what are they going to do? Start a revolution? By the time Starmer rolls back the current deal they’ll all be former MPs.

This isn’t France, OB. Brits just eat their gruel and get on with it while their betters laugh at them.

Governments govern. Oppositions make noise.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Deflection and no substance, jfman. I’m not responding to this, it’s embarrassing.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Au contraire, OB.

I’ll settle for Seph’s approval. Your disapproval is a badge of honour that my messaging isn’t going down well on the sinking ship that is HMS CCHQ.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

My disapproval is based on your lack of an ability to discuss anything you disagree with. Let’s leave it at that, it is boring the followers of this thread.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If the people who claimed we could have all the benefits of the single market without being in the single market aren’t idiots they must be liars. It follows that if they are honest they are not clever for missing a glaringly obvious EU red line around rule setting and the ECJ.

Your inability to comprehend this in the thread can only be wilfully obtuse on your part, and doing so because of your inability to criticise them for purely ideological reasons.

I’ve tried to move the conversation on many times, inviting everyone to be positive about the steps Starmer and the next government will take. There’s no point dwelling on the deceptions and incompetence of the past. Britain is at a crossroads, and can finally draw a line under a decade of chaos and confusion.

The adults can sit at the negotiating table while the children play with their toys in the corner and wonder if we can get a Canada deal.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:rofl:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Worrying for the workforce.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...herts-66126185

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I’m old enough to remember when it was meant to be the German car manufacturers moaning?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

And I remember Patrick Minford telling us manufacturing would have to be sacrificed so we can't say we weren't warned

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2375947.html

The CPTPP trade deal has been signed. Immediate benefits estimated at £1.8bn per year once operational, with huge opportunities for us to build on that.

Keri Benedoch confirmed on Laura K’s show this morning that the Indian trade deal was making good progress.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If by "immediate", you mean "in ten years time"….

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

you mean the 0.08% in 10 years year great NOTTTTTTTT check out video and some level of deceit being perpetrated here. £12 trillion is the combined GDP of all CPTPP members.

https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/st...93652882124800

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So a shockingly miniscule 0.08% uplift from this deal whilst Brexit is giving us a 5% reduction in GDP.
I guess every little helps but even if those countries grow by a staggering 100% that's still only a 0.16% uplift!

https://news.sky.com/story/joining-i...1-8bn-12921751

Meanwhile, how's things going with our largest trading partner?

And service companies don't get away from the leaky tyre effect of Brexit either.
https://www.ft.com/content/5f75a690-...0-eb0d544d7bd3

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There is the food checks to come also next year iirc, we've put it off six years already, if you think food is expensive now wait until the extra billion quid for those checks is added to your bill, so much for smug and we can have cheaper food, clothing and footwear straightaway

---------- Post added at 15:54 ---------- Previous post was at 15:50 ----------

Oh good, maybe the NHS will get the 350 million a week now, it's almost as if you don't know or care what you're talking about

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well, you certainly don’t, as all I did was report a news item. I know anything positive about life outside the EU is not what you want to hear, so I suggest you avoid this thread because we will get more news like that. I wouldn’t like to upset your sensitive brain cells.

---------- Post added at 16:39 ---------- Previous post was at 16:37 ----------

Why ask me? We need to see the details when they are agreed. People don’t like speculation on here.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You may wish to utilise a fire extinguisher on your underwear…

That statement is not based on actuality - nothing in the link you posted stated

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:rofl: :spin:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Actually, I said:

‘Kemi Benedoch confirmed on Laura K’s show this morning that the Indian trade deal was making good progress.’

Where did I ‘(hail) it as something worthwhile’?

This misinterpretation of things said that Cable Forumers do when hearing facts that they don’t like seems to have infected you, too, Seph, which saddens me.

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:28 ----------

The £1.8 bn was actually stated, and I added to that the statement Kemi made about taking up the opportunities that the deal provided. The £1.8bn is a forecast based on existing activity and intentions. It’s been said all along that if you present the opportunities to businesses, they will find imaginative ways to exploit them.

I say that recognising that this is beyond comprehension for some. Live and learn.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think Seph means you've hailed it before. For example
The issue with your statement about the £1.8bn is that you've used the word "immediate" whereas the article link you've provided says "after 10 years".

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Multiculturalism?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You must stop calling us lefties seph as most of us just want a common sense government which actually governs for us all rather then govern for a select group.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The first quote, obviously, was a joke, based on a post of yours. The second does not use the word ‘immediate’. It says ‘based on existing activity and intentions’.

I say again, these were news items. I simply reported them. Don’t shoot the messenger.

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

You did tell us that you voted for Corbyn last time, Den. If that doesn’t make you left wing, what would?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What’s entertaining is that you throws around “lefties” as an insult. How much catastrophic right wing economic policy do you have to witness to realise it has failed? How high do energy prices have to go? How much human excrement has to flow into our waterways? How many train operators have to “fail” once they’ve trousered all the subsidies and distributed those to shareholders?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

<cough cough>

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Who l voted for is irrelevant as l am a moderate slightly to the left voter which does not make me a leftie as you and others label us as.

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 ----------

Don't worry like everything else he blames it on other groups rather then the government of the day.

Its called convenient political amnesia.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Seph, you do yourself no favours with these childlike comments. The term has no specific meaning without context so can only be meant as a wind up.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

OK, I’ll bite - what is your definition of a "leftie"?

(just to ensure there is little, if any, doubt in peoples’ minds).