Re: Coronavirus
 

What do you suggest the people do with those masks? They would have to handle them to take them off, put them somewhere, and then put them back on.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why wear them outside in the first place in uncrowded places?

Re: Coronavirus
 

You may be planning to go inside somewhere, have come from inside somewhere, got off a bus, somebody else may come along, etc. All sorts of reasons, as well as simply not having to take it off and put it back on. The over-the-ears type can't simply be pulled down from the face and then pulled back up when needed. They have to be taken off completely.

Re: Coronavirus
 

These disposable masks are becoming a major litter problem. Who would want to pick one up?

Not to mention the thousands of tonnes of landfill that's got plastic in it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That was my point:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

A rather bizarre story. Surely, if you're unwell you would step down now and not wait until February? Suggestions elsewhere are that this could be a device to put distance between the handling of Covid and the Conservative Party whilst still allowing Johnson to go down in history as taking us out of the EU.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4532556.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

That’s all I’m saying.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Developed a tickly cough over the past 24 hours, no other symptoms but as my OH suffers with asthma I’ve booked in a drive-in test at 2pm today, results by text hopefully within 24/48 hours...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Always better to be on the safe side. Hopefully you will be clear. <hugs>

Re: Coronavirus
 

Cheers, just arrived home now.

Pretty unpleasant running the swab around where my tonsils were, I kept gagging but that was nothing compared to then running it across my sinuses, yuk. Results in 24/48 hours.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Every time I go to the shops I see loads of people wearing the mask under their noses, if they are wearing one that is.

Personally everyone should be told no mask no entry, and if you breathing is so bad a mask cannot be worn then perhaps you should be forced to stay at home.

I saw a Dr he had a O2 reader on his finger and his levers was 99%, he put a high spec mask on which was more airtight that the standard mask his O2 levels stayed at 99%.

Why should I have my heath risked be you are selfish.

Re: Coronavirus
 

EU shame: Trade chief Phil Hogan 'to resign tonight' after flouting coronavirus rules

The European Union’s trade chief was accused of undermining Ireland’s attempt to curb the spread of coronavirus when he ignored orders to self-isolate after returning to the country on holiday. Before his resignation, Mr Hogan had faced days of pressure to quit his £240,000-a-year post after failing to declare the exact details of last month’s trip. European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen forced him to publish an itinerary of his holiday in a bid to establish the facts.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ireland-latest

Re: Coronavirus
 

U-turn if you want to but you'll need to do so 11 times to catch up with BoJo! Trying to handle Brexit and Covid at once is not working out so well.
https://www.ft.com/content/2feb9cc1-...c-25aff1adb93b

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think the term is “agile”. Or would You prefer an administration that doesn’t, can’t or refuses to respond appropriately when circumstances change and information changes?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I prefer an administration that changes it’s mind based on information and new knowledge, not one that only seems to change it’s mind when the headlines and outrage make it...

Re: Coronavirus
 

What circumstances changed with the app? with free school meals? The government has been guided by the science of polling in all these u-turns.

The U-turns have been:
1. Masks in schools
2. Evictions
3. Exam grades
4. Face coverings in shops
5. NHS contract tracing app
6. Free school meals
7. Schools back before the Summer
8. Masks on public transport
9. Proxy vote
10. NHS surcharge
11. Leave to remain
12. Herd immunity

Re: Coronavirus
 

One wonders if Andrew would be quite so scathing towards Boris if he did a U-Turn on the Brexit extension ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sky News' Sam Coates has analysed why BoJo has made all these U-turns. Whilst many have speculated about the power wielded over him by Dominic Cummings, it appears that Nicola Sturgeon is the one to credit for these u-turns.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-one-f...turns-12057400

Re: Coronavirus
 

... or "Knee Jerk".

Re: Coronavirus
 

Or even:

Talk about Whack-a-Mole government.

Attachment 28499

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which of these do you disagree with?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Without reviewing the detail of each one, on the basis of those I do know, I suspect they got it wrong first time and by largely reacting to Nicola Sturgeon's lead, they eventually got it right.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Politicians answer . . . much said without saying anything, but including the compulsory dig at Boris :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's a bit unfair having a dig at Boris - as certain people keep reminding us it's not the Government at fault but the useless civil servants. However, I wonder how many have been civil servants since before the General Election in 2010? Remember when we had a Labour government it was ALWAYS their fault and never the civil servants (and according to some here most of the problems we face now are still their doing). Double standards me thinks :confused: :shocked:.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So you agree they did the right thing? And had they not changed track they would have been criticised.

IMO the only major blunder in the list you gave was the A-level fiasco. Everything else is just small stuff that it wasn’t worth fighting over. The school face mask for example - only affects secondary schools In areas where further restrictions have been implemented, and gives head teachers autonomy as required. Not really a massive u-turn to get all worked up over is it?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The NHS app one was pretty bad. From the very start people were saying it cannot work, the Government said it could, and then it didn't work. Months lost on that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'd say the worst was not locking down earlier.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The app was just plain British exceptionalism.

I agree the failed herd immunity plan aka late lockdown was worse. This was when the government dropped mass testing and contact tracing in the early spring in order to pursue the “herd immunity” strategy.

The plan was abandoned as hospitals filled up and BoJo then announced lockdown.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which dictionary are you (and a lot of other people) using?:rolleyes:
Have you redefined the words "exceptional" and "exceptionalism"?
From 22nd April

So nothing "exceptional" about the UK approach.


Mass testing and contact tracing were halted on the SAME basis as countries like Germany and South Korea, ie too many cases occurring.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The late lockdown I think it less of an issue because it's a hard judgement call and you don't have much time. A few days can make a massive difference and you can see anyone making that mistake. No one was quite sure on the best approach right at the start of this.

Stuff like the exams and the app is foreseeable and they had more time to foresee it. Likewise there were a number of calls for the Government to obtain PPE and they should have handled that better.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just had the result - negative :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Excellent news.:tu:

Re: Coronavirus
 

How do you handle a world shortage of PPE better?

Re: Coronavirus
 

By not running down the reserves you previously had...

Re: Coronavirus
 

How do you handle a world shortage of PPE worse? ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah just hang on to it till it goes out of date.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Then you replace it if it going out of date...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wasn't there a world shortage?

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is such a thing as planning in advance of something instead of waiting until the brown stuff hits the fan..

You plan for events even if a certain scenario does not come to fruition.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So how did the world run out of ppe.did every country fail to plan.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Depends on the likelihood of the said “something” happening, and knowing what the said “something” might actually be.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Right, we should have planned in advance for the pandemic no one knew was coming. :erm:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well yes. We didn't know this pandemic is coming now but that a flu pandemic might come at some point was known. It was seen as the most likely, highly damaging, risk to the UK in 2017: https://assets.publishing.service.go...ister_2017.pdf

We had a a Pandemic Response plan based on a Influenza type virus spreading: https://assets.publishing.service.go...lan_13_Aug.pdf

A plan which specifically mentions we will need the stockpile of PPE:

The point of having an stockpile is not to build it up once the pandemic hits. The Government were warned last year that they wouldn't have enough PPE if a pandemic hit: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/114743...rus-last-year/

So the Government knew a flu pandemic was one of the biggest risk to this country. The Government had a plan that mentioned they would need PPE. We had designed a system to have a stockpile of PPE. The Government were warned they didn't enough PPE just last year.

They can't now turn around and go "how could we possibly have known!". But they did the same with the NHS app, everyone said it wouldn't work and then two months later they come out and pretend that no one could possibly have known there would be issues. Clowns.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I would have thought there were some contingency plans after the SARS epidemic and the Ebola outbreaks.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Apparently the government did have a pandemic contingency plan on the shelf, but it was based on the assumption that it would be an influenza outbreak that would unfold somewhat differently than Covid has done.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As I am continually reminded on this site, this isn’t the flu.

as above.

A simulation of an influenza pandemic was undertaken in 2010, and if you read it the level of PPE used was lower. I.e just a surgical mask, not they full visor type.

https://www.journalofhospitalinfecti...376-9/fulltext

There’s that word “flu” again.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just because we are used to the term flu doesn't mean it's not a killer every year.it can also overwhelm the NHS from winter to winter and in the year of a new pandemic is the reason why this government are rolling out the flu jab to more of the population than ever before.Just so the NHS isn't overwhelmed by two sets of infection at the same time this winter.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There WERE plans in place. They've been publicly available for some time. Eg There was £100m of items held in stock preparing for a possible pandemic.
The snag comes when you(and everybody else) rely on replacements from China, where not only were they badly affected themselves, but there is a long delivery time to ship large quantities by container ship.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good news Russ. Bet you both gave a sigh of relief. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Our local GPs run 2 surgeries over a mile apart. The one near us was shut down due to covid-19 in March. The other was only doing telephone consultations. No blood tests. pre or antenatal, diabetes checks, inoculations, well man or woman annual checks.

I have tried and tried to get their phone to answer to arrange flu jabs for the family. Then someone on a local FB group posted that only one number is now in use, and it is flooded every day. When she did get through she also asked about the local surgery being reopened to give flu and pneumonia jabs. The answer stunned her "Get one at ASDA or Tesco as we have no plans to offer an inoculation service this year".

Add to this no dental services apart from phone-in, no eye checks, no hearing tests, no cancer or diabetes screening. Applaud the NHS? I don't think so.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The government hasn't done any U-turns.


It has changed according to the latest intel.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The plan was still partly used for this pandemic. The only thing they got wrong by using it was the initial approach to the lockdown (which I haven't had a go at them about).

It doesn't explain why they let PPE stockpile dwindle. Even if we did need more (such as visors) the NHS was in need of basic supplies like N95 face masks, gowns and gloves. This wasn't there either despite them knowing they could be needed from the pandemic response you've linked too and from that 2019 warning.

---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------

What intel changed on face masks in the last couple of weeks?

What intel changed on the NHS track and trace app?

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53889184 No need to change the law - nurses, including GP Practice nurses, have been administering flu vaccinations for decades, and pharmacists since 2017...

Re: Coronavirus
 

l had my flu jab done by my pharmacist last year and one suspects that will be happening this year as well.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Never had a flu jab although offered one yearly.

Not had flu for around 5 years too . . . fate well and truly tempted ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sounds like it worked, then? ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

From the link You probably had "man-flu*"... ;)

*a bad cold

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

You could have got a different strain of a flu. You should speak to your doctor otherwise because you shouldn't get the flu from the vaccine, it's not how the vaccine works. Remember they give this to people who are immunocompromised (such as those on chemotherapy) so even if there was a 0.1% chance it the virus could replicated then it could be deadly, they kill the virsues ability to replicate entirely.

Maybe your immune system didn't react well and it's reaction gave the symptoms of the flu or when you got the jab it was too late and you were already in the latency period having contracted it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I am given the Flu Jab every year but only because it does not contain any live virus. Though there are some side effects, https://www.menshealth.com/health/a1...e%20you%20sick.

https://vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/inactivated-flu-vaccine

Due to my compromised immune system I will not be able to have a Covid-19 vaccination whilst it is based on the live SARS-CoV-2 virus. In time an Attenuated Vaccine, such as the current Flu vaccination, may be developed but until then I have to stay in my little bubble.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenuated_vaccine

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I showed my brother-in-law your post - he has 36 years post-doctoral experience in pharmaceutical, vaccine, and biosimilar research, development, & production, and has worked for Pfizer, Teva, and other very large multi-national Pharma/Biosimilar companies (he is currently a Senior Vice-President Strategic Development for a $65 billion market capital biotechnology company in the USA).

He said "that’s an interesting viewpoint - obviously disproves the multiple years of research involving hundreds of thousands of test cases, and the decades of evidence involving hundreds of millions of doses given to patients..." ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wow the snake oil market is on the up.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The fact it keeps happening surely suggests a reaction to the jab itself which I why I mentioned asking about it. It is unlikely you caught a different strain of the flu just after the jab each time but even more unlikely you caught the flu from the vaccine itself, the virus inside it can't replicate.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

As I understand it, After a vaccine it is quite possible to come down with “symptoms” as an immunity response, but you don’t have the virus and you are not infected or infectious.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Jenny Harries says the medical evidence on facemasks is dubious. Start the clock 14 days till they are mandatory in schools. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

3/3 is well short of a double blind phase 3 or 4 clinical trial. ;)

Exposure to the inactive influenza proteins in the vaccine may cause flu-like symptoms, in greater or lesser severity, or it may not.

If you don’t get vaccinated, you may catch flu, or you may not. I’ve had it once in my life, many years ago as a student, but was vaccinated only for the 7 years I had an employer that offered it.

Along with my siblings, I got travel vaccinations for Tunisia one summer about 30 years ago. I wish I could remember which jab it was ... typhoid, I seem to recall ... but within 5 minutes of the jab all three of us threw up and my sister fainted. The GP had insisted we all stay in his surgery for 15 minutes after the jab because he knew that might happen. But these things affect everyone differently.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

A vaccine can take time to set up the immune system. In that time period you could get that or another virus anyway. Often with seasonal flu, there can be more than one virus doing the rounds at the time and the vaccine might not cover all of the viruses out there. Various plausible explanations.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah, as I understand it the symptoms of flu (and most things) are your body fighting the virus. I believe that's why there is a latency period for viral infections - the virus is replicating but your body hasn't started fighting it yet.

But you don't have the live virus in the vaccine. As Pierre says it's possible to get the symptoms of flu but this isn't your body responding to the flu virus but the vaccine itself. I don't know why that would only happen with the flu vaccine and not the others but I guess that depends on the chemistry of the vaccine....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well my household including my toddler are very sick with something, fevers and chills. Will get a covid test tomorrow. I think it's just a really bad cold. Very frustrating as I only left the house for a takeaway.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hoaxers and conspiracy theorists: Where would we be without them? :D

I hope he's got deep pockets.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, he’s currently working on something that will prevent young children dying slowly and painfully of muscle, tendon,& ligament ossification (it can’t be reversed, but the progression can be drastically slowed) - "snake oil" to you, "life-changing" to some families...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Was it a Chinese.....:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Probably a Wuhan Surprise. :erm:

Re: Coronavirus
 

So we have just come back from two weeks in Turkey and here are some thoughts about COVID security during the journey...

Before we left, EasyJet pointed us in the direction of their website to print out and complete health declaration forms for Turkey. The forms were simple to complete. The airline also told us about cabin luggage size restrictions for flying to Turkey. Not quite sure why you can only take small hand luggage but it made the flight a lot easier when boarding and leaving the plane!

At Gatwick, almost everyone wore masks, only removing them when in retaurants/bars.

On the flight out, the mask compliance wasn’t great with lots of people not wearing them or wearing them under their noses or under chins. The cabin crew repeatedly reminded people to wear masks and finally the Captain got on the PA and said we would divert if people refused to wear masks!

On arrival at Antalya, the mask compliance was excellent. Everyone got temperature scanned using a camera on the way to passport control. Our taxi driver for the transfer was masked for the while journey too and there was hand sanitiser in the taxi along with guidelines for COVID protection (nothing new but a good reminder)

The hotel was excellent. All the staff wore masks even when working outside in 35°C heat. All guests were asked to wear masks in the lifts and interestingly, Turkish guests were asked to wear masks throughout when indoors (signs only in Turkish, not in English, German or Russian) There was sanitiser everywhere, non stop cleaning of surfaces and we were temperature scanned before entering the restaurant. Normally the restaurant should have a buffet service but this was adapted with big shields up and the staff served you so you ended up with a lot of plates!

We ventured out a couple of nights to the local town and though the rules say you should wear masks indoors and out, outdoor mask compliance was low. We wore masks simply because, as tourists, we are probably more likely to be fined �� When you sit down at a restaurant, the waiters bought hand sanitiser first before passing out menus.

The journey back was much like the journey there. We completed the online form for entry to the UK which is terribly designed. I can complete one form for me and my kids but not for my wife so she had to do a separate declaration. It also asked you for your home address but then asked where you would be staying a few pages down the line with no option to say ‘at home’ but we got there in the end.

Mask compliance was much better on the flight back interestingly with easily 90% of people wearing masks. I’m sure the demographics would be similar each way so maybe people got institutionalised in Turkey on mask wearing. Maybe sanitiser wipes on the plane would have been nice must possibly fire regulations prevent this.

On arrival in the UK, there were no checks of the forms sent to you by email (there are QR codes on the pdfs you are sent) Maybe there is a link between your passport scan and the forms but that seems very joined up for a UK government IT project.

All in all I felt that the COVID security in Turkey was equal to or slightly more comprehensive than the UK

Re: Coronavirus
 

I really don't know how you could be bothered going on a holiday and having to go through all that rigmarole mate, unless of course, this was a pre-booked holiday from a while back, thanks for your post, was interesting to see how other countries are operating,we go to Kalkan in Turkey which isn't too far from Antalya, but due to this virus decided not to go this year.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Our holiday was booked last November so we thought we might as well go rather than lose money cancelling. Our plan B if the holiday company cancelled for us was to keep the refund aside and double up the budget for next year. It as a close run thing with our flights and hotel being changed the week before we left!

I am glad we went as I needed a break due to the last few months being the busiest I have ever been at work (I know that's no compensation for people who have lost their jobs but there you go) Always knew there might be a risk of the air corridor closing but the current infection rate in Turkey is quite a bit lower than the UK right now

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well I’m due to go to Portugal in October, and I’m going - regardless.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Stereotypes, don't you just love 'em. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Excellent information thank you. SWMBO & I are due to fly out on Saturday to nr Alanya (Flying into Antalya)

A few if questions if possible?

1) Did you partake in the insurance available at airports to cover medical or quarantine bills?

2) How do they deal with luggage collection? Antalya (like most airports) it's normally a huge crowd around the baggage belt

3) Are masks required on the beach? (I'm presuming not)

4) Have restaurants etc jacked the prices up to gather as much lost income back as possible?

5) Did you do any of the day trips? Jeep Safari, Boat trips etc. We normally do a couple just to break the holiday up, wondering how they operate.

Thanks again for the info. (cant wait to feel the heat of when the exit doors open in the airport!!!)

Re: Coronavirus
 

No.

Well the tests came back negative and all three of us got the same flu symptoms in the same order so I'm concluding it was flu. Strange to get it being out of the house for 30 min.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I have answered briefly blow;

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.centredaily.com/sports/c...245448050.html

This is interesting (even if you’re not into NFL) as it shows that previously (very) healthy athletes who catch COVID-19 (even if asymptomatic) could have long-term health issues, which could end their sporting careers; and the same issues could affect non-athletes.

For comparison, the incidence is estimated at 10-20 cases per 100,000 normally.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nothing new really.

Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

Agreed - but the previous evidence didn’t include those who had been asymptomatic having heart damage.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Were previous studies looking for it though?

Link

There's also this.

Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

You could need a positive test before any tracing would need to be done I think. You can order them to be delivered too.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Coronavirus: Leeds added to 'areas of concern' list after rise in coronavirus cases, Rachel Reeves says

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...-says-12063432

Re: Coronavirus
 

Word on the street (from a friend who works at the Council) is that if it doesn’t improve before Thursday, Mr. Lockdown will be coming to visit...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Don't think i could cope with that again.