Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Who has got the time to watch all this TV? No wonder diabetes is on the rise.
Come the Corbyn revolution, it'll a max of 30 mins a day TV. The rest of the day, you'll need to work on the land with your neighbours/community. And you'll be happier ;)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You seem to be misunderstanding demographics - at no point did I imply that 'all' high earners would take subscription services and that no low earners would. That's a ridiculous assertion, but very much a straw man argument on your part because it simply isn't what I said.

Streamers will be able to gleam so much useful information about their subscriber base, location, working pattern - even social habits and holiday habits. Is the viewer in on Friday and Saturday nights? Do they log in from Dubai, Benidorm or Blackpool when away from home?

Youtube isn't selling premium content, it's selling 'no adverts'.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I watch an absolute maximum of 2 hours in an evening (but sometimes up to six hours on a Friday or Saturday evening when we don't go out, staying up to about 2am).

I'm very active during the day and am fairly slimline these days.

It's not about quantity, but quality.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

The absence of ads on Netflix is, for me, a major incentive for subscribing. That and the option to watch shows in a series back to back. Conversley, the presence of (un-skippable) ads on, for instance, All 4 is a major disincentive for viewing anything at all. There is much in the Walter Presents programmes that appeal to me - but not at the cost of being obliged to sit through the commercials. Perhaps Channel 4 will join Britbox when it's launched and make the Walter Presents shows available ad-free. And, then again, perhaps that's just a pipe dream.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Top tip, record things then Fast Forward through the ads. This is top secret, don't tell anyone else ;)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

That isn't possible on most streaming apps.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

That's what I thought. Has this changed recently?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Except that I did not make that assertion. I was trying to put across that while Netflix attracts more better off viewers than those less well off, they cannot be sure that they would retain those viewers if they incorporated advertising. Therefore, Netflix would be likely to lose money, not gain, from incorporating advertisements.

So if Netflix went down the advertisements route, they would need an ad free option with a subscription, which is the route All4 and the ITV Hub are taking here in the UK.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Literally you said:

Not all high earners subscribe to Netflix and probably less would do so if they had to sit through hours of mindless adverts.

That is a textbook case of the straw man.

You seem to be speculating a lot in favour of your own preferred outcome. You don’t want ads on Netflix, but you’re ignoring how lucrative a revenue stream it will be for a company substantially in debt. The vast majority of people tolerate ads on subscription services as it stands - there’s no reason to expect long term delivery over the internet to be any different.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I know I said that, but you misrepresented what I said.

If you really believe that most people don't mind unskippable ads on their on demand services, I think you are in an extreme minority in believing that.

Have you noticed when you go to the cinema how many people turn up late to avoid the commercials?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

A company without adverts as a part of their revenue stream is a company that will not surprise in the long run as adverts bring a lot of monetary value to a companies overall financial results at the end of each financial year.

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You’re, perhaps mistakenly. assuming that the content providers will give people a choice in the matter. There’s also a huge gap between a half hour of ads (another straw man) and trailers prior to a movie and thirty or sixty seconds of ads before a television programme.

One or two extremely tailored adverts.

I think people would prefer no adverts, of course, but despite this ads remain prevalent - even on subscription television as a while. Whether it’d force people to change provider or not is another matter - especially if said provider had the most popular content.

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I don’t mind ads on commercial TV because that’s how the service is paid for. I hated them on Sky because not only was I paying for the service I was also being shown more ads per hour than is even allowed on public service TV. And I absolutely loathe anything unskippable on a DVD that I’ve just paid for.

I wouldn’t object to a relevant, static, side bar advert alongside my menu on Netflix or Prime but I wouldn’t be at all happy with any commercials playing before or during my programme.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

If the programs you watch are quality, having advert breaks does not change that - albeit it is nicer not to have them.

As there will not be any linear to in your future world, companies will have to advertise on streaming - get used to it

Like them or not ads keep costs down, so not to have them means paying more!

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Yes, well I and many others would rather pay more than have the things we watch ruined by advertisements that we have no choice but to view.

---------- Post added at 13:18 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

I don't mind them on commercial TV simply because I can fast forward through them. You can't do that with the streamers.

Like you, I would not object if ads were introduced only on the menus.

---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:18 ----------

And that's fine, provided there is a non-advert subscription option.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

No - the apps adverts if anything are getting more strict.

You can not FF thru them and now not even past them on some apps.

So for some, if there is an ad break at 20 minutes and you skip straight to 25 minutes - you get the adbreak from the 20 minutes position before it plays from your selection.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

All this about advertisements seems to me to support the current practice of recording your preferences off linear TV and then fast forwarding through the bits you don't want

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Discovery looks like the next streaming service to be ready to go. No word yet about when it will become a global service, although I would have thought this would follow within a year of being launched in the US.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...svod-platform/

---------- Post added at 14:53 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------

That's what we do now. You can't do that with streaming services containing commercials, though.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

A global service within a year is highly unlikely given there will be carriage deals in place already for many of the counties around he world.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

That depends on how many of those carriage deals remain in place and how much material Discovery possesses which will not be covered by such deals in a couple of years' time.

You will be aware that Netflix in the US has a bigger library than we have access to in the UK simply because a proportion of that content is not for showing in the UK. Given that carriage deals typically last 4 or 5 years and that Discovery would have been planning this for a while, I would be surprised if such rights were much of an issue by 2021.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Exactly, another reason not to bother with these commercial streaming things. Only streaming app I use is iPlayer, where it's not an issue. God bless the BBC , I would gladly give them my kidneys, well one of them anyway ;)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

It's certainly a reason not to use the ITV Hub and All 4.

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That is a DVD that gets ripped and re-formatted or the content put on my media server.

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So Netflix has a huge library of content, the kind people might wait 30 or 60 seconds to watch? Your statements are inherently contradictory.

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What? Your posts are becoming increasingly bizarre! I have not said anything contradictory but I’m becoming concerned that you are having perception issues.

Please explain the ‘contradictions’ to prove me wrong. Or just let it rest.

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If I am reading this correctly, the three strands of the new Disney+ service including Hulu will be launched internationally at some point. I dare say there are quite a few rights issues to be sorted out as far as Hulu is concerned so it may be we don't get this from launch.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...criber-growth/

Although Hulu remains primarily a US-focus service, Disney has said it has wider international ambitions for the streamer as part of its broader three-pronged streaming strategy centred on the new Disney+ offering, sports service ESPN+ and Hulu.

It also appears that it will be tough going for Apple+ as well. Without the 'must have' content, they will not get the subscribers.

https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20190503...#axzz5mwpK98yf

However, while the Apple TV+ SVOD will offer an exclusive home for its originals, it faces big headwinds in the form of Apple’s limited investment in original programming compared to others and a small catalogue; a glut of original programming on competing services; an uneasy relationship with studios and programmers; subscription fatigue on the part of consumers; and the potential for brand confusion.

---------- Post added at 11:22 ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 ----------

A free ad-supported version of Amazon may be coming to the UK.

https://www.ukairdates.com/amazons-f...-be-coming-uk/

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I think I've said this before but Disney's boss, Bob Iger, also sits on the board of Apple. If Apple wants more content and as a trillion dollar company, there seems a obvious solution here...

And I think that Disney's three pronged approach is a mistake. Disney should just have one streaming service, not try and replicate in the streaming world, what is has in the linear world with multiple services.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I'm not sure, Horizon. If Disney had three strands it could maximise the number of subscribers to the service.

For example, if Hulu was included, I would subscribe, as would many other adults who want scripted services.. If sport was included, that would increase subscriptions substantially.

If they concentrate on kids' stuff, they are restricting their audience. Why would they do this with all that content at their disposal?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You keep saying Sports do enlighten us to what these are likely to be in the UK ?

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Tiddlywinks l hear..;)

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I quite agree, however according to OB we won't have that choice as linear TV will cease to exist!

Strange he is quite vocal against ads on streaming, something that will be required to keep the costs down.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I'm only drawing attention to what the reports are saying. You have read them for yourself.

They appear to be indicating that the sport will be provided by ESPN, so I guess it depends on the rights they acquire to show sport events in the UK. It may be that the days of ESPN Sport on BT are numbered, but a glance at their schedules will tell you what they are able to show at the present time. Expect that to be beefed up for the new service.

---------- Post added at 10:27 ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 ----------

It's not only me. The addition of unskippable advertisements to subscription services will reduce the number of subscriptions coming in.

The way to maximise income is to give viewers the choice between a lower cost or free service with ads, or alternatively a full subscription without. That ensures inclusivity as well, which is a good thing.

---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 ----------

A new streaming service has launched in the UK - History Play. We are starting to see the various genres that have not been covered by the SVOD services to date come to pass now.

The new service will cost £3.99 per month.

https://tbivision.com/2019/05/03/his...azon-channels/

History Play adds an incredible line up of ground-breaking stories across different areas of history, to the wide selection of entertainment we offer customers through Prime Video Channels in the UK, Germany and Austria,” said Julian Monaghan, European MD of Channels at Amazon Prime Video.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Existing pay-tv channels could operate on an ad-free basis yet almost all of them do not.

The sports rights issue goes back to ability to turn a profit (as yet unproven).

What makes streaming exempt from basic economic realities?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I have already explained to you that you can have an option with ads and an option without ads. The models used by traditional pay tv companies are irrelevant and SVOD services are already offering subscription only access. They operate on a global, not a local basis and can therefore offer economies of scale.

Moving on, Netflix is now offering better sound to their top notch subscribers.

http://www.csimagazine.com/csi/Netfl...experience.php

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Comcast, Liberty Global don’t operate on a global scale? Where have you been coming up with this?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

But it's already been explained that advertisers want to target the RICH people who can afford to pay for the no advert service and have little interest in us POOR people who will have to sit through the adverts but can't afford the goodies.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I didn't say they didn't. However, until relatively recently, BBC, ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5, and Sky have concentrated on UK domestic services. Of course, Sky have been expanding into the continent over recent years and BBC has its own channel in the US and provides a limited service to different parts of the world.

Virgin Media, although part of Liberty Global, has served only the UK and Ireland.

All of the content distributors are going to have to expand massively to catch up with global streaming service activity. That's what Comcast, with its takeover of Sky, is all about.

---------- Post added at 11:32 ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 ----------

That may be what the advertisers want. That doesn't mean that streaming services have to pander to their needs. As I said before, the SVOD services will lose subscribers if they carry intrusive advertising.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

So the current actors in the pay-tv market do operate on a global level, thanks for clarifying this key point. They can (and do) benefit from economies of scale.

In your opinion SVOD services will lose subscribers, but that’s yet to be proven and where would they go for this high quality interesting content that you tell us is only available on SVOD?

I see you’ve inserted the word “intrusive” into your argument that was not present before indicating that you now agree advertising is inevitable to some degree?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You have a knack for reading into my posts stuff that isn't there. No, I don't think the advertising on streaming services is inevitable. I do, however, think it is likely that most of them will offer a free or reduced cost alternative with ads. That seems to be the sensible way to go.

I stand by what I said about our main players traditionally having a more national rather than international outlook, but of course that has now started to change with the overwhelming competition they are facing from the global players.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You’re watching the same events but coming to a radically different understanding. It’s not outside pressures consolidating the market - indeed what’s the point in Comcast paying a fortune to buy Sky if it’s a dying market anyway? It’s the huge potential, as a hugely profitable market leader, that Sky will continue to have for years to come. Something none of the streamers appear to have a clear plan for.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You are looking from the wrong end of the telescope. Comcast has absorbed Sky as part of its global plan.

The dying market is the traditional pay tv channels, which will be phased out in favour of SVOD.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

So you keep telling us despite being unable to evidence it. Seems like a waste for Comcast to buy companies that rely on outdated technology as opposed to start from scratch themselves?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I've tried all my pay to view sports channels, they are all still working🤔, any idea when the end date is cos I need to plan for the future as you see it😱

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I only realised recently the FilmRise fleet of apps are available on Amazon, free but ad-funded. Not sure how long they've been available?

I've installed the Sci-Fi, History and Documentary ones.

I haven't had a chance to really test them out yet but when i tried one the ad seemed to keep looping, i exited the app after the 5th time!

I'll give it a better try some other time.

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Well, you certainly can't evidence your dismal view of the future either! You argue for the sake of it. If I posted that I thought all streaming services would contain commercials, you would have argued against it, despite your expressed view on the subject.

Sky is not looked upon as outdated at all, and in fact Comcast is looking to take advantage of Sky's Now TV site. It's the old channels that will die off, not Sky.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Bollocks as they are some of the most popular channels on pay TV.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Yes, and they will still be working for a few years yet! :juggle:

---------- Post added at 18:55 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

Were you watching the History stream? They say history often repeats itself :D

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------

It's the programmes people are paying to see. The programmes will still be there, just accessed in a different way.

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I’m predicting an exciting future. More diverse ways of accessing content? What’s not to like about that?

The only person predicting doom and gloom here is your end of old outdated linear television, that just so happens to be the most profitable and most popular delivery method at the minute - and will be for years to come. It costs major content owners and distributors pennies to maintain a linear presence by comparison to the content itself.

I didn't say all streaming services will carry adverts but those that seek to profit maximise (like all rational capitalists) will - and in doing so be able to charge less and gain more subscribers.

Pay-tv services could remove ads now but don’t. Streaming doesn’t change the economic reality - big businesses will pay a lot of money (and a lot more than the you and your boycott ever could) to get access. Streaming services will allow more effective targeted advertising than linear ever could.

You continue to fail to answer the simple question why basic economics (e.g. advertising pressures, costs of sports rights) doesn’t apply to streamers. It’s just television over a different delivery method.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

A simple look at the absence of advertising on Netflix, Amazon and StarzPlay is the obvious evidence of existing operating models. Can't believe you missed that! :D

Once again, I have to remind you that I have not said that a low cost/no cost option with ads won't happen. In fact, I think this would be a sensible approach. You have also ignored the very reason why the streamers have been so popular. Watch what you want, when you want, with no interruptions. Therefore, the need is to preserve that principle, and offer an 'ads included' alternative for those who can't or won't pay. They would not wish to lose paying subscribers by pissing them off with the inclusion of unwanted adverts.

I guess you must just like watching TV commercials and being told when you can watch the programmes you want to see. Some people like to be controlled, I understand that.

I accept that you do not believe that existing pay tv channels will fail to survive the long term. The BBC has already acknowledged that the situation is changing rapidly and that they need to plan for traditional TV channels disappearing after the next TV licensing review. You can take the view that they know nothing at all about it if you want, but I will continue to disagree with that view.

As for sports, I have said many times now that this is a totally different proposition. Huge subscriber costs can be reduced with advertising, and I dare say that will have to be considered in this area.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

A quick look at Netflix debts suggests the operating model might not be working, or at least in future they might look at new revenue opportunities. Targeted advertising being obvious.

I actually don’t like watching ads, or working to a schedule, I don’t know what I’ve said that indicates that I do? Unlike you I’m not pushing my vision of the future relentlessly on an Internet forum with sources that are dubious online marketing companies.

I’m dealing in reality based in economics, not on supposition or speculation. People watch linear television, people pay for linear television and it’s cheap for the incumbents to maintain alongside streaming (Sky Go, Virgin TV Go, Now TV, Xbox/PS4 apps).

The BBC haven’t said there wont be linear channels - you keep portraying a speculative possibility as fact with no basis whatsoever. Of course, the BBC would rationally portray the worst option to get authority to extend its land grab into streaming. That’s not unexpected.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Netflix is heavily in debt while it continues to grow its content as rapidly as possible.

In the meantime...

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2019...ancel-doubles/

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Now TV 1080p streaming coming this year, Full HD video trials underway

https://www.pocket-lint.com/tv/news/...vice-launching

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

While this is good news, one wonders how long before they start considering UHD.

When everyone has progressed to holographic TV, I guess. :rolleyes:

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Now TV Is a completely different beast to Netflix who are solely a streamer , UHD on Now TV won't happen until Now TV represents the majority of Sky's business.

It makes no sense to cannibalise your high paying platform.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I’m heavily in debt to my mortgage provider. If I can’t pay the bills my hopes and aspirations won’t keep a roof over my head.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Except that Netflix is paying its bills. Most new companies start off with debts and some of the big ones will be in considerable debt for a great many years. It's what is called investment.

In time, the number of Netflix subscriptions will have increased considerably as its reach extends into new markets, increasing its income, and once their library has built up sufficiently, they will reduce the amount of content they are currently adding down to more sustainable levels.

If that turns out to be insufficient to balance the books and make a profit due to increasing competition, then a free or reduced price alternative with commercials would be a further means of increasing income. At the same time, they could decide to increase the price of the 'no ads' subscription service.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Most companies do not start off with debt levels at between 2 and 3 years of subscription revenue. Especially if they don't have tangible assets to secure the debt against.

Price rises are inevitable once they've consolidated market share, we are agreed on that.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Oh I completely agree , I've said for a long while it won't take long before you are paying as much as the entry level packages from the likes of Sky , Virgin and BT.

Another thing worth mentioning what happens if they struggle with attracting new subscriber numbers or worst case scenario see a decline ? People will then end up having to pay even more or they'll have to look at advertising to help them out.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Keep it up MM as your pearls of reality very quickly dissipate the fantasies of those who can't see the wood from the trees.;)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

How about giving us more than just stereo like ITV

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Completely agree :tu:

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Thanks for info.

As Comcast are extending Now Tv into other countries, this may morph into Comcast's global streaming service, although Comcast did say that would carry the NBC/Universal branding originally, although they seemed to have rolled back on that recently and I still expect the global streamer to be called Sky.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Even if what you say is correct, which I doubt, frankly, a streaming service such as Netflix charging those entry level fees will still be much better value.

How you can imagine subscriptions to Netflix declining when they are attracting more and more subscribers to the areas currently served and are expanding to become a world service, I cannot fathom. And as others have speculated, a free (or reduced subscription level) service with ads will attract even more money to SVOD.

I don't understand why you should want these new services with so much more content to fail. They have transformed the viewing experience for me and no doubt a great many others..

---------- Post added at 20:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:12 ----------

Clearly, Den, you want SVOD to fail. I don't know why this is the case - I understand you subscribe to Netflix yourself.

No doubt, you would not do so if you thought it to be poor value for money.

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Like a politician you come out with complete and utter gibberish OB as the trouble with you is you struggle to cope with other members who's views differ from yours.

---------- Post added at 20:37 ---------- Previous post was at 20:34 ----------

At the moment it represents good value as a add on to our overall family viewing.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

It's actually easy to imagine Netflix declining. You yourself are the biggest advocate of a streaming future with a large number of providers. It is simply not realistic, in any market, to expect that a large number of new entrants will not have a negative effect on incumbents. Consumers don't have infinite cash so will make choices as to which provides best value. You also point out how flexible the price plans are, making them disposable quite easily.

Netflix doesn't own much of the content on it's platform so the long term risk is that the new entrants happen to be the content owners themselves weakening the position of Netflix significantly.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

There we go, the prophet of doom declares that Netflix, the streamer that has single handedly transformed the TV landscape for the better, will soon be in its death throes!

Netflix is well placed to dominate for some time yet and the huge debts it has accrued are all part of its operating model. The reason why it's investing so much in its Originals is to ensure that Netflix still has a huge library of content to offer its subscribers. If the non-Originals were to disappear overnight, it would not make a scrap of difference to my viewing and I'm sure that many, like me, take Netflix purely for those Originals.

As for other competing streamers, yes, more will come on the scene over a relatively short timescale, but it is the pay tv channels that will suffer, not Netflix. It is true that people have only so much money to play with, but given the choice of cheap, bountiful content on the streamers, and expensive pay tv channels that incorporate hours of dross between one or two gems, what choices do you expect the public to make?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Plenty of companies have transformed landscapes then ceased to exist/got taken over once the rest of the market has caught up with them.

It's a ridiculous notion to say that 'only' pay-tv channels (by this I presume you mean Comcast owned Sky, Liberty Global owned Virgin Media and others) will suffer and Netflix thrive with the increased competition in the market. The market for those willing to spend £8 a month for additional content has a finite size.

The public continue to make their choice month in, month out with direct debits worth hundreds of millions each month heading to Sky, Virgin Media and BT and I don't see any reason why people won't continue to do so. There's plenty of quality on demand content on those platforms too, for anyone with an irrational fear of linear television channels. There's also premium sport content, which given the prices paid appear to be the most popular/profitable content for platforms. No streamer has demonstrated a business model for this and every time I bring it up you just tell me that's different!

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I have recently been accepted onto the next Now TV trial, I am hoping it will be testing the new 1080P service.
I don't know too much about at it the moment apart from you have to have a Now TV device (smart box, stick or 4K box) and by Googling the name of the trial it appears to be something to do with video player software.

I would expect once it starts I will have to sign a NDA so wont be able to report what the new service is like,
but if not I'll try and give you guys and gals here a heads up on what its like.
Hopefully as well as the resolution they'll up the framerate of the sports channels too.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

People with Now TV Sticks can forget 1080. The wifi pickup on them isn't that good unless it's sitting next to the router. Mines about 20ft away and its hit and miss. Had to opt for the PS4 app instead

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I don't think Comcast/Sky or Liberty Global/Virgin Media will have insufficient subscribers. What I am saying is that the streaming services will replace TV channels.

Sky and VM will have bouquets of SVOD/AVOD services instead. That is the way this is going.

Ditch the traditional pay TV channels for the new VOD services and you will get better choice and see some change out of what you were paying before. Why is that a bad thing?

As for premium sport, Sky will simply set up a stteaming service and compete with the likes of Amazon. Incidentally, you did clock that Amazon is showing premiership matches free of extra charge, didn't you? Disney + will also be showing sport on its ESPN strand, and I think that will be at a pretty reasonable price.

The cost of some sports such as boxing are high anyway, whether or not we receive it by traditional means.

By the way, where does any 'fear' of traditional broadcast channels come from? Nobody fears them, old chap, they are just on their way out, and over the next decade, that will become pretty obvious - even to you.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Amazon won packages that didn't meet the reserve price the FAPL had at the first round of auction, low cost rights allow Amazon to show games in something like four separate time slots during the season. By comparison, Sky showed 9 games on Sky One this season. None of this breaks current business models.

You think, but can't demonstrate, that Disney will enter the market at a "reasonable" price, nor can you demonstrate that at said price it could sustain buying the highest profile rights presently held by Sky or BT and that they could turn a profit from doing so.

Linear TV gone by 2029? That's quite quick considering it took us 14 years to complete digital switch over.

The fear of linear TV is your attitude towards it. To the rest of the population many watch (and pay heavily to services providing) it day in, day out, without any significant distress caused to their day to day lives. Right now I'm watching the climax of the Premier League without having to avoid Twitter in case I find out what happens on there before it happens on my TV screen (as appears to be the case with so-called live streaming).

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Well, it's likely to be less than $5 in the States, so I would not expect ESPN to be too expensive here. I can demonstrate that Disney will enter at a reasonable price, actually, by the way.. Clock this:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/11/1...le-deal-likely

Once again, your negative view of all this is wrong. The big question really is whether ESPN UK will carry any of the football premier league packages, and whether Disney will be able to absorb some of that cost as a loss leader.

Amazon certainly would, without question, although some doubting Thomases on here still refuse to believe it. The fact that Amazon have got the lowest Premiership package only this time around is acknowledged. However, you have totally ignored the fact that they are providing these matches with no extra charge. Not very Sky-like, is it?

My 'attitude' towards linear channels is most certainly not based on any 'fear' on my part - why would I fear them? They will be dying off soon. It's pretty obvious really but it's difficult to 'prove' what hasn't happened yet. However, that doesn't make you right, not by a long chalk.

Incidentally, where did I say that linear TV would be gone by 2029? My view has always been that they will be gone (at least for all intents and purposes) by 2035.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Your link doesn't even prove that a Disney sports service will launch in this country, let alone at a reasonable price. It's going to take a lot of $5s to recoup the thick end of £4.6bn if they did enter.

Sky offering Premier League games on Sky One (available in the basic packages on Sky and Virgin) is exactly the same as Amazon offering them "free" to subscribers to Prime.

Again there's much speculation that these huge global entities will be willing to take a hit on the Premiership rights without actually considering why they'd bother? If they can't turn a profit from them in the three year window what's the long term benefit? As you've said many times before - these are flexible packages people can just leave easily and there will be plenty of other choices available.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You might get a voice activated remote, which Comcast now issue to its subscribers. You may also get more search options, like you can find out what songs are being played in a film, as but one example. This is all Comcast stuff, that I expect will arrive at some point either with Now TV and/or Sky's full tv service.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Sky Q already does voice search and other voice functionality however this will expand further using Comcast technology.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

The proof is there and already posted here (by yourself??).

Pay tv is on rapid decline in the States, while streaming services like Netflix and now Hulu have been on the rapid increase. If people want links to this proof, they can type into Google themselves, but take one example: Comcast.

Comcast is rapidly losing pay tv subscribers, especially among the younger age bracket 20-35, but they are rapidly gaining broadband customers instead as the younger folks use the streaming services. Link to these figures are here:

https://www.cmcsa.com/news-releases/...r-2019-results

This is happening to all the pay tv companies in America as people cut their cords in favour of streaming.

How much proof do people want that linear tv is in terminal decline? Will they only agree when BBC1 is left broadcasting??

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

How many of those are then signing upto TV services like Youtube TV , Sling TV , Hulu Live TV , DirecTV Now ?

All of which offer linear TV the only difference being streamed rather than over satellite or cable.

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Apple TV is now available on non-Apple devices.

https://www.engadget.com/2019/05/13/...ung-smart-tvs/

I've just got it on my Samsung 2018 TV. 4k HDR content is available, however it doesn't look like iTunes Extra content is.

Additionally Airplay 2 is supported and also works as you'd expect.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

True, but it is a different method of delivery, as in Pluto TV.

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The big question being - will VM carry Apple+?

Apple wants to get this streamer onto as many platforms as possible, so hopefully VM will be an attractive proposition.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Any proof of terminal decline at all would be helpful at all.

You, like Old Boy, are making the false assumption that current pay-tv companies do not adapt and decline to zero while streaming service subscriber penetration will rise to the sum total of human population.

Fanciful.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I don't think you are very alert to what is going on all around you. What I have been saying about the way linear channels will go in the UK is what has started happening now in the US. You keep demanding 'proof' of the future but you provide little in the way of proof that your desperate scenario will win the day.

That's because it won't. There's no point in my providing links for you. You just ignore them or try to find some strange excuse to discredit them.

What you are expressing is just your point of view which is not backed up in any way. I'm doing the same, but with back up information and in line with how the TV industry sees it.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

So the goal posts have moved again , it's still linear TV and available in a guide.

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No movement of goalposts. It's IPTV.

Nobody has said that linear viewing will not be possible - after all, that's how we watch sport. It's the conventionally broadcast channels that will be disappearing.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Its alright MM he will open his eyes in a minute and realise that..;)

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Bollocks...

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What you mean is you don't like other peoples opinions because they threaten and discredit your own biased ones.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

This is a forum and anyone is entitled to express their opinions. What I object to is when posts are put up here declaring that you are wrong when a perfectly reasonable argument and links are put forward and objectors don't even bother backing up why they disagree. But it's all par for the course on this forum.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I’m very alert to what is going on around me. Streaming is changing the way users consume television (and including pay television).

My “desperate scenario” as you put it is that people will continue to consume television in a variety of means: linear, time shifted and on demand from a variety of providers (including streaming providers). Hardly desperate or controversial?

You, on the other hand, are claiming the market will revolutionise yet can’t explain why basic economics (affordability of sports rights for example) doesn’t apply to streamers. You have to demonstrate how linear reaches zero and that Liberty, Comcast etc cannot adapt. I don’t have a high bar to demonstrate that people enjoy (and will continue to do so) the current broad range of offerings.

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l do not disagree.

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IPTV is just the delivery method the same as Satellite or cable.

Those broadcast channels still available in the US ? A country with far higher numbers cord cutting.

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You might think they are reasoned but obviously others don't.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Because they are unreasonable :D

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A bit like "The Pot Calling the Kettle Black".....

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In your opinion OB..:D

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Yes, we are talking about the delivery method, aren't we? How many times have I got to clarify that the channels in decline will be the traditionally broadcast linear channels to make this clear and avoid all the pedantry that goes on here about the terminology used? You know exactly what I'm referring to.

Nobody has said that cable and satellite channels are not available in the US. However, they are in decline, as the links have confirmed.

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I don't disagree with your first two paragraphs. Except the 'desperate' bit. :D

I cannot understand why you are, I think, suggesting that streamers will not be able to afford to stream live sport. They already do. Presumably you are referring to my comment that sport might well be cheaper, and I stand by that. Amazon is a good example. A reduced price for sport could draw more people into their Prime retail service.

I said many moons ago that it is possible that the linear channels could be saved if they were able to adapt in some way, but I have seen no signs of that and frankly at the moment I cannot envisage what such an adaption could possibly be. On demand viewing is so much more convenient, and without advertisements, time wasting is eliminated. AVOD will still be available of course, but most people who can afford it will take the ad-free versions of their most used streaming services.

You have acknowledged that streaming is becoming more popular. There will inevitably come a point when this trend tips so far as to make the linears no longer worthwhile.

Just sit back and watch this play out. It will take a few years (Den please note)!

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I'd suggest looking at some of the services I've listed above , I believe you'll find they carry lots of linear broadcast channels but then that doesn't fit with your beliefs does it.;)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

'The traditionally broadcast linear channels' are by far the most reliable means of getting programmes into homes, whether by aerial, satellite or cable. What is the logic of sending the same set times programmes over the internet which continues to be prone to all sorts of go slows and outages, especially as the current systems have had years of development to improve performance and reliability?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

This is an important consideration.

Plenty of “outdated” technology survives because of simplicity/ease of access. I’m sure we’d all agree DAB and FM radio are superior to MW radio for instance.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

But will 'linear programmes' sent over the internet give a better viewer experience than those sent via aerial, satellite or cable?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

FM maybe. DAB isn't so great in the UK unfortunately - https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/ca...fix-it-1217586

Depends what you mean by that. Done right it will be no worse that is currently available for picture or sound quality.

However doing it as IP allows it to much more fluid as to how and where you watch. Look at what you can do with 'Watch from Start' on iPlayer for 'Live' channels.

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For the second time, they are linear channels made available through IPTV, not traditionally broadcast channels.

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They are the exact same channel , do you even know what you are talking about ? You talk like it's something brand new.

Both Sky and Virgin Media have been distributing linear broadcast channels over IP for ages with Sky Go and VM TV Anywhere or whatever they call it these days.

Your main point was the linear channels would be gone forever clearly not.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You are ignoring completely what I am saying.

It should be crystal clear by now that I am talking about the TV channels that are made available by our transmitters, cable and satellite. In other words, the traditional broadcast channels.

I have always said that live TV in the future will be streamed TV, although in my view, anything other than news and sport is not likely to be too popular a means by which people watch by that method. For that reason, they would have to make their streamed services more attractive if the broadcasters wanted them to be available in the future, as the Beeb have done on their i-Player.

The Pluto TV-style viewing experience will still appeal to some, but I think it's only a matter of time before non-live events are watched mainly by way of VOD.

To be clear, it is the method of delivery I have been talking about, not specifically the channels themselves made available by alternative means, although these will not be so popular in time and will decline because simply VOD will be far easier to access. I mean, why would anyone go to the programme they want to see from scheduled programming when it is already displayed prominently to be watched on VOD?