Cable Forum - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Forgive me if this has already been noted.

This reply to Earl of Northesk refers to a PDF file I hadn't seen before.

http://cryptome.org/ho-phorm.pdf (previously, I was only aware of this extract http://cryptome.org/ho-phorm.htm). The text seems identical.

What is the Home Office link to cryptome.org? Why do Home Office documents seem to 'magically' appear on this site and nowhere else? (not even the Home Office own FoI pages).

The reply to the Earl of Northesk states
"However, a copy of that note has been published at http://cryptome.org/ho-phorm.pdf."

Published? That site is registered in the USA. Cryptome, 251 West 89th Street , New York. What about the Home Office site for heavens sake?

Pete.

in this case Pete it wasnt officially published as such, hence the later "...not ment for publication" etc and the responses Florence posted here.

see "Home Office endorsement for Cryptome Richard Clayton "
on the threads here
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pi...ypto/2008-May/

they were as suprised as you that the HO were endorsing Cypto, their nemesis it appears. ;)

Dephormation

02-06-2008 18:32

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34565722)

Indeed. I've no doubt it wasn't officially published.

The bit I'm keen to understand; why are the Home Office providing links to a site like that in official written answers? And not publishing this material on their own web site?

Is it simply coincidence that leaked documents 'not intended for publication' appear on Cryptome at precisely the same time as a Home Office staff member is posting precisely the same text to UK crypto? I do hope so.

Because if there is a (direct or indirect) link between the Home Office and Cryptome... that's rather a serious problem for the Home Office isn't it?

:)

Pete.

Florence

02-06-2008 18:36

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34565745)

Agreed and something I think Simon needs to respond to and ot witht he gov normal it isnt me gov stance...

Toto	02-06-2008 18:36

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florence (Post 34565715)

I was sure Alexander said Simon had an agreement if Phorm released part of the PIA report all had to be released, would be interesting to find out if this is true and if 80/20 could make it public if only snippets arrived online that made Phorm look good.

On another note reading on phorm god knows why I still read all i find I have come across this link.
http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/17042008/323...cy-battle.html

If you click on all the ISPs that are planning to implement Phorm have had drops in the share prices.

Does that not tell the ISPs just maybe this is wrong for the companies incase you want to cut through the Kent BS.
BT http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=BT-A.L
VM http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=VMED
CPW http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CPW.L
just for good measure the one in America using the phorm look alike spy http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CTL

If you can stand reading the BS enjoy.

I think its fair to say that if you compare VM's share price with the NASDAQ (where VM is listed in the US) over a period of the last two/three months, its fair to say that its shares have largely been in line with the NASDAQ's overall performance.

Whether their shares will be affected by a confirmed implementation of Phorm or similar system is yet to be seen.

icsys

02-06-2008 18:43

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Is anyone compiling a list of questions for the AGM, assuming you gain access and have the opportunity to ask?

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34565657)

We will certainly be chasing BT to "reassure" us with the full text of the PIA which of course they won't be able to do.

You could also request details of the 'significant due dilligence' in the area of security and legality which is so frequently mentioned, conducted on behalf of BT by Dun & Bradstreet.

There is something affoot on the webwise.com site too...
yesterday I was accessing http://www.webwise.com/privacy/opt/ where I could physically switch webwise off and on (despite it supposedly not being live). Today the same folder returns... 'Forbidden You don't have permission to access /privacy/opt/ on this server.'
I am trying to access today through a Virgin connection, yesterday I was at work.
More changes to the opt-in opt-out I guess or is it that VM customers connected via the VM network are denied access?.

bluecar1

02-06-2008 18:50

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34565722)

just reading the full (ish, note section 1 seems to be missing)

look at point 21, "consent of the ISP user and web page host would make that interception clearly lawful" followed by "the implied consent of a web page host (as indicated in para 15) MAY stand in the absense of any specific express consent"

para 15 says "it may be argued that section 3(1)(b) is satissfied in such a case because the host or publisher who makes a web page available for download from a server impliedly consents to those pages being downloaded"

there is a difference to me about being downloaded by an end user and it being profiled for profit by K*nt and his spyware

peter

---------- Post added at 17:50 ---------- Previous post was at 17:46 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34565751)

Is anyone compiling a list of questions for the AGM, assuming you gain access and have the opportunity to ask?

You could also request details of the 'significant due dilligence' in the area of security and legality which is so frequently mentioned, conducted on behalf of BT by Dun & Bradstreet.

There is something affoot on the webwise.com site too...
yesterday I was accessing http://www.webwise.com/privacy/opt/ where I could physically switch webwise off and on (despite it supposedly not being live). Today the same folder returns... 'Forbidden You don't have permission to access /privacy/opt/ on this server.'
I am trying to access today through Virgin, yesterday I was at work.
More changes to the opt-in opt-out I guess or is it the VM customers are blocked?.

are they getting ready for trials?

Rchivist

02-06-2008 18:50

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34565751)

Is anyone compiling a list of questions for the AGM, assuming you gain access and have the opportunity to ask?

You could also request details of the 'significant due dilligence' in the area of security and legality which is so frequently mentioned, conducted on behalf of BT by Dun & Bradstreet.

There is something affoot on the webwise.com site too...
yesterday I was accessing http://www.webwise.com/privacy/opt/ where I could physically switch webwise off and on (despite it supposedly not being live). Today the same folder returns 'Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /privacy/opt/ on this server.'
I am trying to access today through Virgin, yesterday I was at work.
More changes to the opt-in opt-out I guess or is it the VM customers are blocked?.

The Houston/Phorm end of BT Webwise went down yesterday as the servers lost power due to an explosion. No comment!

icsys

02-06-2008 18:56

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Jones (Post 34565762)

The Houston/Phorm end of BT Webwise went down yesterday as the servers lost power due to an explosion. No comment!

I was accessing http://www.webwise.com/privacy/opt/ even though www.webwise.bt.com was down. They are hosted on different servers.

Could anyone not on a BT or VM connection try to access?

Wildie

02-06-2008 18:57

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

They wont care about the downward trend on the shares which look like a copy of each other since they had dealings with a known spyware outfit, cos they been told it will go up once it`s running, but it be the customers be doing to running to another isp pdq, when they find out they cannot stop the adverts spamming their screen when all their normal blocks and stuff fail to stop it, and may break their surfing all together by using a host block of the ip`s from where they been served from.

but what we care hey we all be moving on to a new isp.

my children`s data is not to be profiled, you say you cannot know who we all are using the internet, so that goes for how old they are as well, you must give full informed information including that if you opt in children will be profiled as well which is not going to be legal.

Paul Delaney

02-06-2008 19:05

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluecar1 (Post 34565663)

the trick is trying to keep it balanced and not looking at things from a purely negative aspect so it will be taken as being objective, not just written to rubbish the product

peter

This is possibly how 80/20 have done it:

In the c4 News report on the Public Meeting which contained an interview with Simon Davies (with his 80/20 cap on). He basically said that Phorm could work if it was on an opt-in basis with the customer's consent but he was being far from negative:

"I believe that there is a solution where we can create an opt-in situation where there's lots of informed consent, a lot of trust building and people are galvanised in the process and companies will make money"

When I first watched the video I thought - he's on Phorm's side - let's hope Phorm think the same because that is probably going to be the conclusion drawn in 80/20 Thinking's PIA.

:)

davews

02-06-2008 19:12

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I think any suspicion that the fall in value of BT and other shares is anything to do with Phorm is pure speculation. BT is a huge organisation and Phorm falls a miniscule part, many shares have been falling in recent days due to the state of the stock market and world economies in general. I imagine those attending the AGM (which I shall not be attending either inside or outside) have far more on their minds than Phorm.

The state of Phorm shares of course is another matter...

AlexanderHanff

02-06-2008 19:16

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34565771)

I was accessing http://www.webwise.com/privacy/opt/ even though www.webwise.bt.com was down. They are hosted on different servers.

Could anyone not on a BT or VM connection try to access?

Forbidden here

Alexander Hanff

davidb24v

02-06-2008 19:25

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34565771)

Could anyone not on a BT or VM connection try to access?

Code:

wget http://www.webwise.com/privacy/opt/

--18:24:14--  http://www.webwise.com/privacy/opt/

           => `index.html.2'

Resolving www.webwise.com... 89.145.112.31, 89.145.112.32

Connecting to www.webwise.com|89.145.112.31|:80... connected.

HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden

18:24:14 ERROR 403: Forbidden.

And forbidden via my work connection (Be).

Dave

Rchivist

02-06-2008 19:30

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34565771)

I was accessing http://www.webwise.com/privacy/opt/ even though www.webwise.bt.com was down. They are hosted on different servers.

Could anyone not on a BT or VM connection try to access?

My apologies - I missed that it was the Webwise site and not BT webwise that you were talking about.

icsys

02-06-2008 19:37

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

It would appear then that Phorm are playing around with the opt-in opt-out pages. The pages to switch webwise on/off were standard html and probably the ones that set cookies. Unfortunately i never checked to see if cookies were being set but then I was on a corporate network.

For those interested, here is a link to the Dun & Bradstreet website.

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