Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think Sunak wants her to hang around a bit longer so she can carry the can for the all-time highest number of legal migrants, due for announcement this week with suggestions it's 700k-800k people. That being said I think we're doing the right thing for Hong Kongers and Ukranians but we need to build enough housing for them!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It’s always someone else’s fault…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Surfers turned up in Scarborough to protest about sewage pollution and were told not to go in the sea after because of...... sewage pollution :(

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I assume policy and personal failure.

• Too many unlawful immigrants - fault of the EU for signing up to an agreement that stopped the UK sending asylum seekers back to the EU country they had come from.
• Lack of Brexit opportunities - fault of Remainer civil servants.
• Braverman potentially resigns for breaking ministerial code - fault of the blob.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Reasonable :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The lack of opportunities is not the fault of the people who might be asked to implement them had they existed

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

Ukraine should be separated from Hong Kong. I am confident that the vast majority of Ukrainians would go home when the war is over.

As for Hong Kong, you could argue the case for allowing 100,000 of migrants in is less compelling given the fact they are not fleeing a situation where their lives are at risk. Very few I suspect plan to return to Hong Kong.

What is telling, and this is at the heart of the small boats faux-outrage, is that no one is angry at the people arriving from HK and the increased demand on Infra as a result.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You just need to believe more. I prescribe a trip to Wokeingham and night on the town with Old Boy and Seph! :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They would be if their paperwork was deliberately delayed to make people angry :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Excellent news.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65698529

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Due in no small part to:

What is interesting is that (from the same article):

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Makes a refreshing change. Previously, our net contributions to the EU were used, amongst other things, to incentivise motor manufacturers to set up in Eastern Europe, to our own disadvantage.

35 built/building/planned is an average of 1.2 plants per member state. Which makes 2 in the UK above average. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nice one.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I guess resorting to comparing the UK to countries the size of Malta, Greece, Estonia, Cyprus, etc. is victory of sorts albeit a Pyrrhic one :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No more pyrrhic than counting 'planned' factories in the EU figure while dismissing the UK's 3rd potential plant as 'barely on the drawing board'.

Around two thirds of total Lithium Ion battery production planned in the entire EU and UK is at material risk of cancellation, or at least significant scaling down, because of a brewing subsidy war with the USA.

https://www.transportenvironment.org...risk-analysis/

The BBC article is wise to caution counting the Northumberland site proposed by Britishvolt as a UK site, but is very much counting chickens that have not hatched (and may never do so) by attributing 35 to the EU.

My point is, you can make statistics say pretty much whatever you want, and someone on the BBC newsdesk this afternoon appears to be doing so.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I wasn't counting them, the BBC was. I guess you seem to joining them in making statistics say pretty much whatever you want.

Trying to big up the project you so zealously support is like putting lipstick on a pig. It is a failure as everyone can see apart from those who can still claim the Emperor is really wearing clothes.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Which was exactly my point.

I’m not bigging anything up - I’m simply not minded to swallow, uncritically, whatever the ongoing pro-EU information operation is pumping out on any given day. The BBC newsdesk’s reflex is to make a bald numbers comparison that fails to stack up against 60 seconds scrutiny. Yours is to quote it uncritically because it affirms what you already believe to be the case (Kudos to you, though, for dropping it like a hot coal as soon as you saw it didn’t stack up).

We are outside the EU, that isn’t going to change for the foreseeable future, and it is going to take more than 2 or 3 years for it to become clear what the UK’s long-term regulatory environment and economic balance will be as a result of that. Though I guess I understand why obsessing over every development as it arises and insisting on evaluating it through an EU/Brexit lens may be cathartic for some.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's been 3 years since we left the EU so you want 2 or 3 more? Was this on the other side of the Big Red Bus? Jeez ..

I am not going to debate objective reality with you. You can live in your rosy sunlit uplands but the rest of the country has to cope with train wreck this clown show has delivered.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So are you not happy with a really good contract coming to the UK with the potential of 9000 jobs to go with it?

---------- Post added at 22:02 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

Nah, you're the one with the daft reply, the people who will benefit from this are the 9000 who will be given employment, sour grapes from you. :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

More happy news:

Brexit food trade barriers have cost UK households £7bn, report finds

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Great news that the plant is coming here. Credit to the government for helping make it happen.

I believe France and Germany are leading Europe in battery factories. I read a great article on it but can't put my finger on it. They've got their cheque books out quite a bit to get investment.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You are insulting the electorate, old bean, because they voted for Brexit, and for good reason. The 'sunny uplands' were never going to be delivered within a couple of years, because putting the appropriate arrangements in place takes time. But our membership of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the new contract with 9000 jobs, the review of EU regulations which currently apply to British law, etc are all signs that the pieces are being put into place.

You are not interested in the positive news, only the negatives.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Those stupid slow machines broke down completely today.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65731795

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I don't remember being told it'd take years for sunlit uplands, I remember being told we hold all the cards and would feel the benefits from day one which is different to the pictures you're now carelessly trying to paint and won't wash with anyone who was even remotely paying attention

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not sure what the factory for Jaguar Land Rover has got to do with our leaving the EU.

As you're probably aware, Brexit is proving more of a deterrent to new businesses coming to the UK.
https://carnewschina.com/2023/05/22/...o-in-the-game/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There appears to be a bit of artistic licence going on there, TheDaddy. Anyone with a brain would have known that milking the benefits of Brexit would take time.

We couldn’t even start negotiating trade deals until after we left, and reviewing all those EU laws that we had absorbed within our legislation would be a huge exercise which would take years to implement, so that nonsense spun by remainers who never give up is just that.

---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

I mentioned that because all the naysayers were predicting that we wouldn’t get a deal like this post Brexit. They seem to have gone a bit quiet.

The company have assessed Britain as being a more viable option than Spain.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I’m in Tenerife, arrived yesterday. There was no separate EU/ Non EU. There was an adult and family queues.

The auto machines weren’t working and we just bypassed them straight to the customs guys. Took us all of 15min to get through.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well Tenerife is not part of the EU. So their customs regime could well be different.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

In my experience at some airports since last summer is UK flights are arriving into different areas within terminals from intra-EU flights. The staffing requirements will likely vary depending on what’s coming in.

In Majorca last year they put non-EU into the gates and EU to the desks, despite the signage being the opposite. The theory being there was more non-EU passengers on the flights arriving and it’d be quicker. (I agree with Paul though the gates are trash, I try where possible to ask to use the desks upon return to the UK).

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yes it is. It is an autonomous territory of Spain and is one of the EU’s ‘Outermost Territories’. It has certain rights to derogate from aspects of EU law but it is nonetheless part of the EU.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Tell UK Customs that. They told me catagorically that Tenerife was not part of the EU. I will accept things may have changed since then since the early 2000's

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The EU’s ‘Outermost Regions’:

https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy...ost-regions_en

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That might be because EU Citizens don’t need to show ID (except for the non-Schengen countries).

https://www.tfsairport.com/airport/a...ents-tenerife/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Unfotunately it may be too long ago to sue for being kept in the cells for over 6 hrs.

I was handed a self delivered letter stating there was no case to answer 11 months 28 days later.

The only good thing was the custody Sergeant, she was drop dead gorgeous.

I remember them saying I could have anyone sit in on the innterview but it is not true. I asked for the custody Sergeant and was told it was not possible/allowed.

So much for having anyone of yout choice.

End of reminiscing, I've grown up since then. I still remember that custody sergeant though...:D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Hey, who knows.

All I can say is, I travel a fair amount……> 6 times a year……

And as I have mentioned previously, I have not encountered any delays or less than preferential/ equal treatment at any European airport just because I have a U.K. passport.

I appreciate it is my own anecdotal experience, but there it is.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You should go to Cologne/Bonn. Non-EU arrivals taking longer, once the EU arrivals off my flight had been cleared they told us we could use those desks too. Questioned on purpose of visit, where staying etc.

On the way back the two UK flights both flew from the very last gate (82) of the most remote terminal despite there being about 4 departures all evening from terminal C.

Riga airport asking for proof of a hotel reservation and purpose of visit when I was there at Christmas.

Fuerteventura had all their Jet2 arrivals queuing to go through two desks but basically waved through once you got there.

I can’t remember anything out of the ordinary from Budapest or Berlin, but anecdotally a mixed bag.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Only because they are getting £5,000,000.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That isn't really relevant. All countries offer incentives to attract business.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think it goes to shows that it’s variable.

We had four trips away last year (none this year so far because of poorly doggie) - Larnaca twice (for TRNC), where the first time it was separate queues, second time because the U.K. queue was so big compared to the EU queue they just moved Brits to the EU queue, Dubrovnik when the EU queue had gone they just let the Brits use the EU booths, and Faro they let everyone use any queues.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

How can a reported half a billion quid of subsidies be not relevant?

If it wasn’t relevant to the decision making surely it’s a waste of taxpayers money? That said, it’s the Tories perhaps we should find out which members of the House of Lords, pub landlords or husbands/wives of Tory MPs will be trousering it.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Same company (TATA) steel company wanted same amount to save steel on Teesside was not forthcomng. Maybe it was because it was up NORTH not down SOUTH.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Explain this to me. I found a cheap ticket with Lufthansa, London to Seoul with a stopover in Germany (Munich (?), Frankfurt (?) --I cannot remember). When I tried to buy it, the stopover came with a "*": you have to pick up your luggage, pass passport/customs exit and re-check in.

But UK ain't in EU, I should land in an "international transit" area. Should we demand to kick us out of the EU properly?

I booked the flight with Asiana, lots of fresh air, they fly with the doors open.....

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I don't think anyone was saying that, Old Boy. JLR has the bulk of its operations here so it made sense for its battery supplier to be in this country too as that keeps transport costs down. Having Spain in its back pocket as an option was sensible and likely helped ensure such a generous subsidy.

What is becoming clear is that international motor manufacturers looking to locate new car plants in Europe are giving Brexit Britain the cold shoulder. Witness Tesla and BYD who ruled out the UK due to Brexit. That's not naysayers making predictions, that's the car manufacturers themselves.
https://carnewschina.com/2023/03/13/...due-to-brexit/

On travel, the EU and non-EU queues were of equal length when I visited Porto last month. But we did have to wait whilst our passports were stamped whilst those in the EU queue just walked through. But at least the passport machines worked better than those in Gatwick.

I think things will get slower for UK visitors with the new visa system but I think I heard this might be postponed until after the 2024 Paris Olympics.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Some cheap tickets don't include luggage connections. Nothing to do with EU.

Just curious - are both flights with Lufthansa but with Asiana flight numbers?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Just Lufthansa. Asiana flies direct.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Artistic licence, who said

The day after we leave, we hold all the cards

There will be no downsides, only considerable upsides

Leaving will be quick and easy, the UK holds most of the cards


and I don't think it particularly fair that you've called a large chunk of the voting public brain less, it's not their fault they were lied to and deceived and it's not remainer nonsense to want politicians held accountable for what they've promised, not sure why you'd think differently tbh

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It just confirms that populists not only repeatedly lie but are also deeply incompetent.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We win some, we lose some. There’s nothing new in that.

---------- Post added at 17:11 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------

By both sides. It happens at elections all the time and it is magnified at referendums.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Of course you are right. The country was promised no downside and too many believed their lies. However, it is the disingenuity of the true zealots that is the most despicable part. Now that everyone can see the effects of the catastrophe, you have the same people who literally said there was no downside, now saying it was going to be like this all along.

The dishonestly is off the chart.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Come off it, Ian, both sides lied.

And it has not been a catastrophe. True, the review of EU laws and so on has taken longer to get under way, but Covid lost us some valuable time. It's picking up now, with the first EU laws being extinguished and replaced within months and the remainder to follow. The Pacific trade deal is agreed and will provide a real fillip to our economy, particularly as it will cover favourable conditions for the service sector, our biggest earner.

Germany's economy is doing worse than ours, and yet you don't take into account these facts, preferring to concentrate on negative comparisons. It's a bit of an obsession, isn't it?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

When will "the remainder follow"?

Also under what benchmark is the German economy doing worse than ours? As far as I can tell the living standards are higher, the beer is cheaper and the car manufacturers don't need to revisit the Brexit deal.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Perhaps he needs to read this instead of coming out with his usual gaslighting exceptionalism.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2344039.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Perhaps you should read this…

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-forecast.html

[EXTRACT]

The German economy suffered an unexpected dip in the first quarter of the year, formally putting the country into a recession, new figures show. Germany's gross domestic product (GDP) fell by 0.3 per cent in the period from January to March, data released on Thursday by the Federal Statistical Office shows.

And this….

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...-bind-britain/

[EXTRACT]

…the German economy actually shrank in the final quarter of last year, unlike the UK, which merely stagnated.

Nor is the mood music in Germany around the current quarter at all good either. The manufacturing PMIs are down, and although the latest Ifo index reading suggests that things may now be picking up a bit, the second consecutive drop in Ifo's so-called "current assessment" points to another quarter of economic contraction yet to come.

This would push Germany into the technical definition of a recession (two consecutive quarters of declining growth). But for the unseasonably warm weather and a large dollop of fiscal stimulus, which protected German consumers and industry from the full impact of surging energy prices, it could have been a great deal worse. A mild recession would have become a deep one.

As it is, German GDP has already slipped back down below its pre-pandemic level, and looks set to fall further. The same fate awaits Italy, according to forecasts by Moody’s Investors Service. Japan too looks to be in the danger zone.

Things hardly look brilliant in Britain either, with the full force of rising energy bills and mortgage rates still to be felt. Even so, we seem to be on an improving trend, and no longer in such a bad way relative to others as we were.

This is the very reverse of what the International Monetary Fund (IMF) was forecasting only as recently as last month. In an update to its World Economic Outlook, the IMF said it expected the UK to contract this year, but for the rest of the G7 to show some growth.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nice try but given these 2 newspapers are propagandist newspapers for the government l would not trust a word that is written in these compliant daily rags.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Of course you would say that. Your mind is closed to arguments that go against your mindset and prove you wrong.

Instead of slagging off the sources of information provided to you to back up statements people make, why not actually look at what the articles say? Then if you disagree, let’s hear why.

If you are telling me that the facts here are wrong, let’s see some back up for your assertion.

My real point is that any twerp can find negative stories to back up their claims. But true thinkers look at both sides of the argument and come up with a reasoned opinion.

All we hear from remainers are the negative stories. All the positive ones are ignored. That is what makes contributing to this debate on here so tiresome.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Hang on, OB. Is that real GDP or nominal GDP? And what does growth look like when you adjust for inflation?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Your point being….?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:rofl:

If you have to ask, against the backdrop of the highest inflation in Western Europe, you probably shouldn’t be gloating that our economic growth is a rounding error better than Germany’s.

The support of Trussonomics and crazy Kwasi’s budget all makes sense now.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If we're not appearing on short lists for new manufacturers due to Brexit, then how can we win their plants?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Always look at the source, rather than interpretations of the source…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1685390960

https://www.oecd.org/economic-outlook/march-2023/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You do realise that they are projections, don’t you, Hugh? Out of date, to boot, and proved wrong already. We are not now projected to go into recession, whereas Germany is.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

On most measures, this statement is blatantly wrong. Germany is more prosperous and has a lower inflation rate than the UK, for example. However, you are right to point out that Germany has likely tipped into recession which the UK may avoid.

Useful links
https://www.worlddata.info/country-c...U&country2=GBR
https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/germany/uk

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Like a bald English man fighting over a comb.

Inflation is high, living standards are falling. Ah, but our economic growth (not adjusted for inflation) is a fraction of one per cent higher than Germany :rofl:

Pray, tell, OB how many centuries would that have to persist for before living standards rise in this country?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

OB, I am not going to debate objective reality. Been there, done that. If you cannot be honest enough to accept that what the electorate was promised were lies then there is no debate possible.

As for Germany, for a G7 economy that is in the midst of re-engineering its industrial dependency on Russian gas it doing a pretty good job considering. The UK has no such dependency.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Imagine trumpeting the economy merely stagnating as some sort of victory, I know the bar is low but really, that's a win now days

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Apparently, the celebrations in Wokingham over the economy eclipsed those celebrations in Goodison Park on Sunday, although there was a neat symmetry to both. :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

How about recent history, then?

https://www.oecd.org/newsroom/gdp-gr...-2023-oecd.htm

btw, all those countries went through "COVID, Putin, etc…".

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1685441027

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I guess it all depends on the period you choose to compare.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I know; it’s as if you and your sources cherrypicked data to suit a fledgeling argument. And ignore inflation, of course.

Are British people getting better off relative to Germans? An irrelevance for those like yourself that consider the country a roulette wheel from which to offshore our wealth and take it elsewhere.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

And you should be honest enough to acknowledge that I said both sides lied. How could you have missed that?

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

I’m cherry picking?

It’s not me deliberately ignoring the positive stories all the time and just picking out the negative ones.

I didn’t hear anyone on here cheering when it was announced that UK growth in 2022 was 4.1%, but there you go.

It’s all doom and gloom on this forum. I guess it always has been.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That’s because against the backdrop of the highest inflation in Western Europe the growth is imaginary. It exists on a spreadsheet. In the real world it’s the biggest drop in living standards since World War 2.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm afraid some people think UK stands for Unicorn Kingdom! ;)

We can have a hard Brexit and not be in the European Single Market but there is an economic price to be paid for that choice.

Yes, Covid and the Ukraine War have impacted us very heavily but we're not the only ones.



Looks like a trade deal with the US is not being pursued.
https://www.ft.com/content/1fd173a6-...2-685801ec1604

---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:24 ----------

In terms of countries that we don't have trade agreements in place with, here's the state of play:

• Gulf Co-operation Council (GCC): The GCC represents six states (Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE). Negotiations started in June 2022.
• India: There is no current trade agreement between the UK and India. Negotiations started on 17 January 2022. The Government had hoped that these negotiations would be completed by October 2022 but this deadline has been missed.
• US: There is no current trade agreement between the UK and the US. Negotiations started in May 2020.

One small area of optimism is the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) which should build on the existing trade deals we have with its 11 members. However, it is not anticipated to compensate significantly for the reduction in trade following Brexit.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...sive-trans-pac

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Boy, I’m Old enough to remember when a China trade deal was the next big thing.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

And I'm old enough to remember when we had a China Crisis :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That's just Wishful Thinking.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I would put North Korea, Iran and China as enemies far ahead of our Western allies.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Indeed. Back in July 2016, David Davis was predicting.
https://conservativehome.com/2016/07...y-for-britain/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-dampen-growth

Here comes the pain!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nice :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

A crap deal
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2350567.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That’s nothing to do with Brexit, though, my friend. :LOL:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I was referring to The Guardian article on interest rates in the US, Germany and the UK.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Of course Brexit impacts on the UK economy. How else would we reach those promised sunlit uplands if it doesn’t?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You are changing the subject. I was talking about interest rates, remember?

If the US and Germany are suffering from high interest rates as well, it rather dents the mindset of those who say it was all Brexit’s fault that UK interest rates have increased.

As for the impact on the economy, I should, perhaps, remind you yet again that we have not yet implemented the new freedoms that Brexit provides. However, we are now on the cusp of getting the CPTPP deal implemented and further trade deals that actually benefit us are beckoning. The service sector will benefit hugely from this. Additionally, the bureaucratic EU legislation that impacts on business will soon start to disappear.

You ain’t seen nothing yet, old chap. [Cue another sneering response as is usual whenever anyone suggests that Brexit might actually deliver].

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Intrrest rates don't exist in isolation separate from the prevailing economic conditions, such as the highest inflation in Western Europe.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I don't think anyone is credibly suggesting that Brexit might actually deliver what the nation was promised.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's delivering for Paris with the financial services sector growing as a result of Brexit and in Germany where UK firms have heavily invested to remain in the Single Market.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If the government knew "Brexit planning drained resources from pandemic preparations that the UK government knew were needed" then there must be a question mark around its judgment.
https://www.ft.com/content/51d18972-...3-bcd0f7b0f819

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

A decade of austerity and outsourcing has left the Civil Service and other public services at the bare bones. Many of us, some with relevant experience to speak about it, commented on this at the time.

Those with the blinkers, and optimism without evidence, claimed otherwise.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The government wants to dip into our wallets again!
https://www.ft.com/content/3b3ec1be-...9-a29314105118

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Interesting but not unsurprising trade news:

Based on the latest data from Germany, here is the current UK trade performance w/Germany:

https://twitter.com/DennisNovy/statu...54341488623616