Re: Brexit
 

NO, I'm in Great Britian/England/UK, I'm an English Brit.

Nowhere does that say European.

Re: Brexit
 

all parties ignore manifesto commitments Mick not the first time not be last time

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

never said it was

Re: Brexit
 

It's a mess as it's meant to be happening in the very near future and there is still no deal in place nor does anyone actually have a clue what's happening.

The process of Brexit and the possible outcome is in a total mess.

Re: Brexit
 

Spoken like a true selfish person. So it's ok to not commit to election pledges and basically con the electorate, after MPs are elected because it suits your Anti-Brexit agenda?

Pathetic. :rolleyes:

You still have not answered that small detail on if a second referendum is called, who will pacify all the leave voters of the massive betrayal, it's pure nativity to think that us Brexiteers will just accept this level of a illegitimate 2nd referendum?

Re: Brexit
 

It's nothing to do with who won or lost. It's that the parties in charge of sorting the thing out haven't got a clue.

No one is engineering anything.

Re: Brexit
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
That makes the UK politicians to be as perfidious as Varadkar! That's no reason not to honour the Referendum result.



So is it your position that the Referendum result should be honoured?

Re: Brexit
 

Lightly moistened toilet tissues made with Jasmine fragrance and a touch of silk.


https://www.boots.com/andrex-supreme...B&gclsrc=aw.ds :D:D

Re: Brexit
 

Mick I am just pointing out lots of commitments in manifestos aint honoured they always con people and no I have not called for a second referendum but even Nigel Farage is expecting one now

Re: Brexit
 

So we agree MPs can be con artists and they putting their own personal beliefs above the peoples?

---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:12 ----------

Nigel Farage has never spoke for me.

Re: Brexit
 

Oh no! How will I sleep at night?*



*very easily ;)

Re: Brexit
 

yes never said it shouldn't be what the discussion is what kind of deal we get a no deal brexit will be worse of all worlds

Re: Brexit
 

I am not transposing anything. I am not trying to claim all Remain voters voted Remain for the same reasons. Some may want closer integration, some may want the current level and some may want changes to allow more autonomy with the Union.

You see (well maybe you don't) that people have different levels of tolerance for the various positions.

You (and others) have this binary interpretation of what the 17.4 million people will accept. In the real world, some Leavers would not feel they voted for a Hard brexit with all the consequences it entails especially when the Leave campaign did not discuss the negative Hard Brexit scenario. Everything they told you was positive.

---------- Post added at 00:53 ---------- Previous post was at 00:46 ----------

Sorry, you are in Europe and so you are a European ..

---------- Post added at 00:56 ---------- Previous post was at 00:53 ----------

I see we're feeling the spirit of Christmas, good will to all men and all that :) I am waiting to see what a pure nativity is, maybe Santa will bring us one in the New Year?

Re: Brexit
 

He can choose to revoke his European Status if he likes, just like I revoke my EU Citizenship, mainly because I don't want to be associated with a dictatorial corrupt entity AKA the EU, he is British first, everything after that is irrelevant.

Oooh looks like I upset the CF Spelling Policeman, you knew which word I meant.

Re: Brexit
 

Well as you know some on here collect spelling/grammar mistakes like woman of a certain age collect thimbles :D

Re: Brexit
 

You will be an EU citizen until we leave the EU or you are awarded citizenship of a non-EU country. We joined the EU together, we leave it together.

---------- Post added at 07:59 ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 ----------

We have heard it and it still shows us worse off than remaining. Many Brexiters acknowledge this and say it's a price worth paying.

---------- Post added at 08:06 ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 ----------

Lol, we'd probably need two separate venues. :D

Re: Brexit
 

Nope my passport says I’m a British Citizen, no other status applies. The EU is a dictatorial, corrupted entity that I have no desire, nor want to be associated with and the UK has legitimately voted to leave this cancerous dirty empire. A 2nd losers vote for the democracy abusers will be illegitimate.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Well she might soon not have any choice in these coming weeks whether one likes it or not Andrew.

Re: Brexit
 

May says one thing.
Her de-facto deputy and her chief of staff meeting Labour MPs.
Amber Rudd says there needs to be a cross party consensus.

These people aren’t the shambles they are made out to be. This is deliberate. It’s testing the water moving towards “we had no choice but to put it back to the people .

Re: Brexit
 

That’s fanciful. Politicians equivocate, as subtly as possible, when they’re trying to say one thing while planning to do something else. They don’t launch a broadside at a former prime minister and accuse him of insulting the office he held, for suggesting the course of action she (supposedly, secretly) wants to take.

Face facts ... May knows Brexit will be her one legacy and she’s hell bent on delivering it. There won’t be a second referendum and there won’t be any significant departure from the deal on the table. She’s going to run the clock down, effectively playing chicken with the legislature, to see if there’s any way of getting the deal done when No Deal is the only real, imminent alternative.

Re: Brexit
 

I had similar thoughts a week or so ago . .

Re: Brexit
 

It also states you are in the European Union... https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1544960662

Re: Brexit
 

Nope, wrong as usual Hugh - It says in the Nationality part: British Citizen, nothing else - I am not a EU citizen.

Re: Brexit
 

Attacking Blair gets good headlines and makes her appear strong.

I’m not sure she does see Brexit as a legacy, delivering Remain and steering the country through the crisis would be a legacy in itself. I think she has to play chicken with Parliament to frame this as MPs meddling.

Re: Brexit
 

Anyone who is a British citizen is also an EU citizen.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/gl...tizenship.html

Re: Brexit
 

Under the Maastricht Treaty, signed in 1992 by the UK, yes, you are - under this treaty, European citizenship was created, allowing citizens to reside in and move freely between Member States.

you may not want to be a EU Citizen, but legally, you are.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Theresa May has denied many things before and then gone on to do exactly what she denied. We may not instantly recall her denying that she would not hold an election but the memory of her saying that the vote on her deal would not be postponed is still fresh.
I think Brexiters need to accept the hard facts that there is a possibility of a second referendum...and also that they may not win it. I don't want another referendum to happen but I believe the chances of it happening are steadily growing as shown by recent developments.

Re: Brexit
 

Screw the corrupted Maastricht treaty in which NOONE had a say on thanks to John Major!!!

So no, I will not tell you again - I am not a EU citizen and I will not accept no-one else telling me I am so cease doing so because it is bloody pointless. If I say I am not an EU citizen, I am not- I am a British and nothing else-end of discussion!

Re: Brexit
 

So when you fill a legal form out that asks nationality you put European then?

Re: Brexit
 

English or British depending on the moment. ;)
When people ask you which continent you live on, which one do you tell them?

Re: Brexit
 

I’m gonna put European even after we’ve left. Just to be difficult

Re: Brexit
 

Absolutely not - you're first and *ONLY* nationality is the Country you originate from, that is Britain.

As it stands from 29th March 2019, while UK Citizens can relish and celebrate leaving a totally corrupted EU, like me, they can choose to revoke their EU Citizenship, I already have, there is not one piece of paper in my possession that says I am an EU National-this is total bliss.

Re: Brexit
 

British Empire.

Re: Brexit
 

Then you will have to refill the form again then, it's your time you're wasting, so fill your boots. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

TM doesn’t have to go turncoat. She puts her deal to the public in a referendum over no deal. Parliament amends the referendum legislation to include remain.

Re: Brexit
 

So should I put Eartling on?

I will never put European on any paperwork.

Re: Brexit
 

I don't put "human" on any paperwork, but doesn't mean I'm not*.. ;)


*opinions may differ on this... :D

I am a European Citizen, under law, in addition to being a British Citizen.

Re: Brexit
 

:dunce:

Re: Brexit
 

You keep posting that offensive emoji, despite being asked not to, yet can’t explain why Theresa May wouldn’t back her deal in a referendum. She genuinely believes it’s the best deal... why not test the theory out?

400 Parliamentarians who want remain couldn’t ignore a referendum that clearly backs her deal. If she wants her deal after losing the vote it’s the only option she has left. Why wouldn’t she use it?

Re: Brexit
 

Don't blame the guy, the emoji suits him ! :D

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------

Yes, European even if we leave the EU, you can't change geography as much as some would love us to join onto the United States. Now isn't that a lovely united country !

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

But she remains committed to her deal, and gets to stiff Rees-Mogg etc because no deal will be off the ballot once Parliament has had a say.

She can hand on heart stare down a TV camera and say she believes this is best for the country, delivers on the referendum result and the only way to achieve this is due to divisions in her party and the opposition is to have public support for it.

Why do you think she has been targeting people directly, and there are Government funded ads on social media “selling” her deal?

Re: Brexit
 

Never mind Mick when we import your French printed 'British' passport in 'bleu', you'll be a happy man :) (thats if it ever gets pass the queues at the ports.... )

Re: Brexit
 

Well she has form as we all know in calling a General Election when she said countless times that there would not be one and then she stated unequivocally that there would be a vote last Tuesday which of course there was not and now she says there will be a vote before the 21st of January which of course they won't be..

Re: Brexit
 

One thing is true about TM, she listens to no one, which will be her downfall. Bit like the captain of the Titanic....

Re: Brexit
 

Liam Fox becomes the first Brexiter minister to call for free indicative vote in parliament.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46584654

Re: Brexit
 

Please sign the petition: Leave the EU without a deal in March 2019. to put the pressure on.

Re: Brexit
 

If I was working for the Passport Agency, I wouldn't be instructing the printers Gemalto to remove the words "European Union" for now, given the current uncertainties. They can of course still be blue and be European Union, the current colour is recommended but not obligatory.

Re: Brexit
 

As soon as Parliament gets voting for it’s preferences that’s the the game up for Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

or her cabinet want one which some are moving for one now

Re: Brexit
 

Done ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Really?

My word, that's a sign of desperation if ever I saw one :shocked:

Re: Brexit
 

This hasn't worked out too well for her. Not only is she being criticised for hypocrisy (she didn't criticise John Major who did the same thing as Blair) but Blair has responded in a reasoned manner.
https://news.sky.com/story/blair-and...r-mps-11582978

Re: Brexit
 

done

Re: Brexit
 

Responding to Mrs May's criticism, Mr Blair said: "To describe such a course as an insult is a strange description of what would be the opportunity for them to instruct Parliament as to how to proceed."


Pure Blair hypocrisy. The Referendum has instructed Parliament as to how to proceed. But the Parliamentarians have become anti-democratic by not fulfilling the Referendum's mandate.

That you, Andrew, consider Blair's words as "reasoned" condemns you.

Re: Brexit
 

I’m inclined to think Blair is a polarising figure.

People either supported New Labour and got over the Iraq thing, or they didn’t and he was a war criminal. I think the for the audience May is appealing to the vast majority won’t side with Blair under any circumstances.

Re: Brexit
 

I will say this again I am NOT and I will NEVER be European or a European citizen.

Yes our Continent my be in europe, that that's all.

Nowhere on any paperwork I fill our never says which Continent are you from.

Re: Brexit
 

No one's asking you to put it on a form but posts 5127 and 5128 contain some clues as to whether or not you're an EU citizen which is the citizenship in question. https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=5128
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=5127

---------- Post added at 19:49 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

You've misread read my post - reasoned manner is my description. Thus he's calmly defended his position with his reasons and not gone off on one. We don't have to agree with him to understand that his manner is reasoned.

Re: Brexit
 

You can’t have a 3 way question on the referendum. It would have to be Binary, because you are effectively splitting the leave vote by having two leave options.

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:47 ----------

I think it’s quite funny

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

It’s a bit of a flaw is it not?

I couldn’t repeatedly call another user an idiot, for example.

Re: Brexit
 

You’re an idiot, if you think that.

Re: Brexit
 

So many permutations possible with options of transferring votes to second preferred choice, ranking choices, which options to include, etc which make a people's vote hard to agree.

Re: Brexit
 

If leave were to win (against remain) I think it’d make most sense to have a further vote a few weeks later about what type of Brexit to aim for.

Re: Brexit
 

I think that wouldn't work due to voter fatigue. I suspect even a people's vote in January would get a far lower turnout than in 2016.

Re: Brexit
 

It’s the only way out of having six different views of what Brexit looks like.

Re: Brexit
 

I know what dead in the water looks like. :D

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

My finger is poised on the ban button. :)

I suggest anyone who is over sensitive should find other topics to post in, and leave this one.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

The above might be a convincing argument to TM for there to be three options.

What two options would you have?
a) TM's deal and no-deal
b) TM's deal and remain
c) No deal and remain

Ultimately, this evidences that a people's vote is not a straightforward solution to the chaos in the Commons. Devising it and then gaining consensus from the Commons will prove quite difficult as different questions and voting structures will lead to different outcomes.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Meanwhile, in other “I know you don’t believe me but there really isn’t going to be another referendum, please stop making yourself look silly” news:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46586673

This is the contents of a speech to be delivered later today. Though I doubt it’ll make much difference to those who have totally bought into the idea that she’s going to call a referendum and everything that points to the contrary is just some kind of strategy.

Re: Brexit
 

You have to accept the woman has form on U-turns."U-turn if you want to, but Theresa May will turn first."
Personally, I don't think a referendum is desirable or practical then again, that's what I said about Brexit.;)

Re: Brexit
 

I think your evidence evaluation and weighing skills are operating at a sub-optimal level. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

So if the British people vote to overturn the previous vote of the British people, the British people are breaking the faith of the British people?

Re: Brexit
 

She is going to say either way. At least until her deal is voted down.

But the suggestion is that the government is intentionally stoking up the idea of a referendum to scare the Brexit contingent into backing May's deal or losing Brexit entirely. Although it also encourages Remains to think it's within their grasp.

I don't think she has a plan B and if her deal is voted down then who knows what happened.

Re: Brexit
 

I agree that it may appear like a leap of faith that May is saying one thing, but really intending to do another. That said, I don’t think her cabinet are going rogue of their own accord.

Re: Brexit
 

Er no - the obvious thing you're choosing to ignore, deliberately, I might add, is that you do not keep having the same vote over and over again because you did not like the result of the first. We had a referendum, the UK voted to leave the EU, that is exactly what should happen.

A second referendum, AKA the losers vote, would be for the democracy abusers trying to thwart the first result.

Re: Brexit
 

The loser’s vote, which I will term the “well-informed vote” will be a more up to date reflection of democracy than the old one.

Re: Brexit
 

We don't need an uptodate reflection. We need to get on with enacting the first result and leaving FFS! :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

:dunce::dunce:

[Admin Insert: :nono: Please See: https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=5191 - Thanks]

Re: Brexit
 

I don’t see why we need to get on with it. In the present form it doesn’t represent what was promised before, Parliament can’t agree, and such an important decision requires taking the time and effort to ensure we make the right decision.

Rushing the A50 vote through has got us into this mess.

Re: Brexit
 

I suspect millions of People did not vote to leave based on promises made, I certainly did not - I took absolutely no notice of ANY campaigns because my mind was made up for leaving years before any campaigns began.

Parliament is full of Pro EU loons who are putting their own personal beliefs before the peoples, who gave them an instruction to leave the EU and yes I say instruction because that is what they did, they passed the sovereign choice to us to decide and we decided to leave the EU, (I will not be told otherwise by anybody!!!).

Re: Brexit
 

Well suddenly every is talking about another referendum, even its opponents, which show its now very much on the agenda. TM now paranoidly bleating about it, probably means its on the cards - she also claimed there wouldn't be an election last time !

'Slowly, slowly catchy monkey'...........

Re: Brexit
 

So there’s no way of quantifying how many of the 17.4 million were swayed by any of the campaigns. It’s also a betrayal of everyone in this country regardless of how they voted, or even if they voted, to crash out for ideological reasons and not leave in a controlled manner.

I’d prefer to take five years and get it right than three further months and get it massively wrong. That said, for those it was about immigration it’s only a date they see as a line in the sand.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

I see what your saying
If the losers of the referendum cannot accept the result there will have to be a losers vote to give them[the losers] the opportunity to have their own way, presumably because it's unfair that they are losers because they were never told they could be losers before the referendum ,but now they are losers democracy needs a tweak to turn the losers into winners.

Re: Brexit
 

Crashing out or cliff edge, is a terminology I do not accept would happen, it's Remain, fear mongering rubbish.

Re: Brexit
 

you might not accept it but 66 million might think otherwise. Unless you're planning a Dictatorship ;)

Re: Brexit
 

A dictatorship is exactly where we are heading if we do not enact the first result - Parliament asked the people in 2016 and we told them we wanted to leave the EU and that is what a true democracy is, we do not keep asking the same question over and over because the losers of the first result did not like it.

Re: Brexit
 

I think crashing is the most appropriate word. It suggests uncontrolled, which is exactly what this is.

If we triggered a50 two years ago and said “right chaps, two years to prepare for WTO terms” I’d probably not use the word crash as at least it could be deemed intentional.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

When the deluded traitors talk about having new votes to counteract the initial democratic vote then in my camp that = :dunce: There is nothing to say to them except that and only that.There is no telling them there ain't going to be another vote yet they bleat on and on and on and on.

I really am thankful that i'm chilled over this entire Brexit situation.The ramainers are tense,paranoid,deluded and almost getting to the stage they are ready to throw themselves in front of the Brexit Express to derail it,But guess what,it's got a snow plough on the front of it and its just going to plough right through them on it's way home.Not long to go now and Santa is nearly here as well :p::p::p:

Re: Brexit
 

There is such a thing called controlled exit, with no deal. We save £39 Billion on day one. Like the Weatherspoons boss, Tim Martin said the other day at a Leave means Leave rally, "Whenever I wake up in the morning, and you probably think the same. Being £39 Billion better off is a great start to the day."

About 4 minutes in on his speech in this video.

Re: Brexit
 

No one is a traitor!

Tell that to the Scottish folk who are still demanding a new Indy Ref as they don't accept that NO won. They constantly gather and march and keep raising the issue. They are just an annoyance.

This while similar is slightly different and the leave vote won and they had 2 years to plan this out and here we are 3 months to go and there is still not a decent strategy or plan in place. Hence why so many of tyhe public and MP etv think there should be a final vote.