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-   -   General : ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33688944)

vincerooney 17-10-2014 08:37
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35735842)
The 3pm blackout thing has been tested through the European Courts. We are one of a hand full of countries which operates it. There is no evidence to suggest it impacts on attendances in any of the countries which don't.
Absolutely this is the thing. But yet again it's been in place for 22 odd years and the uk is firmly stuck in the past as I said yesterday. Unable to comprehend moving on.

vincerooney 17-10-2014 13:21
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35735856)
Absolutely this is the thing. But yet again it's been in place for 22 odd years and the uk is firmly stuck in the past as I said yesterday. Unable to comprehend moving on.
Mumbai vs Pune 2.30pm tomorrow on star gold. So football is on between those times!?

Mad Max 17-10-2014 13:22
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35735910)
Mumbai vs Pune 2.30pm tomorrow on star gold. So football is on between those times!?

That isn't football! :D

vincerooney 17-10-2014 14:33
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 35735911)
That isn't football! :D
haha those teams may disagree! but what is the definition of "football" then? spanish football is a no no but indian football is okay? how far east can we go before it becomes a no no? ukraine? russia? china? is there a border to the 2.45-5.15 block on football? an iron curtain so to speak? who makes the decision? quite a fascinating thing to find out!

1andrew1 17-10-2014 14:44
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35735910)
Mumbai vs Pune 2.30pm tomorrow on star gold. So football is on between those times!?
Not in the UK though? It's showing a film then isn't it? http://uk.startv.com/stargold/schedule (click to 2014-10-18)

vincerooney 17-10-2014 15:13
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35735922)
Not in the UK though? It's showing a film then isn't it? http://uk.startv.com/stargold/schedule (click to 2014-10-18)
ah. live football on tv states


Man City v Tottenham Hotspur

Premier League

12:45

BT Sport 1 / BT Sport 1 HD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ross County v Celtic

Scottish Premiership

12:45

Sky Sports 3 / Sky Sports 3 HD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mumbai City v Pune City

Indian Super League

14:30

Star Gold

Mad Max 17-10-2014 16:04
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35735918)
haha those teams may disagree! but what is the definition of "football" then? spanish football is a no no but indian football is okay? how far east can we go before it becomes a no no? ukraine? russia? china? is there a border to the 2.45-5.15 block on football? an iron curtain so to speak? who makes the decision? quite a fascinating thing to find out!

You can watch live games in some pubs that show them with 3pm kick off's, they are mainly broadcast from Arabic countries.

harry_hitch 18-10-2014 11:11
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35735842)
The 3pm blackout thing has been tested through the European Courts. We are one of a hand full of countries which operates it. There is no evidence to suggest it impacts on attendances in any of the countries which don't.
But what if it does? Numerous smaller clubs feel the pinch all the time. Cambridge United did not make a profit for a number of years. They would be stuffed if even a thousand fans decided not turn up each week because those fans would prefer to watch multi-millionaires cheat, dive and harass refs just to win a football game.

I imagine a number of other clubs would struggle too.

Once again, we have more clubs in this country than many other countries, so you can not apply the logic of countries to this one.

I refuse to believe the blackout is forced on tv companies without any research being conducted. There must be studies in this country which show what the effects of not having a blackout would do to certain clubs.

If the powers that be are stuck in the past, I agree, that its a shame. I just don't think they are.

vincerooney 18-10-2014 14:26
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35736076)
But what if it does? Numerous smaller clubs feel the pinch all the time. Cambridge United did not make a profit for a number of years. They would be stuffed if even a thousand fans decided not turn up each week because those fans would prefer to watch multi-millionaires cheat, dive and harass refs just to win a football game.

I imagine a number of other clubs would struggle too.

Once again, we have more clubs in this country than many other countries, so you can not apply the logic of countries to this one.

I refuse to believe the blackout is forced on tv companies without any research being conducted. There must be studies in this country which show what the effects of not having a blackout would do to certain clubs.

If the powers that be are stuck in the past, I agree, that its a shame. I just don't think they are.
We have too many professional clubs though. If they can't sustain themselves with their fan base and so rip off their fans with ticket prices to barely stay afloat they shouldn't be professional

I believe someone mentioned yesterday Germany a country 6x as big as ours has 44 less professional clubs. Staggering. Instead we continue to prop up small clubs with their tiny fan base and dreadful facilities and then wonder why grassroots football isn't producing good players

It's not nice but it's evolution. The strong survive. The weak clubs with a tiny fan base should simply close or become amateur. Instead we insist "nooooo but they've ALWAYS been here"

As a country we are stuck in the past. As a country we'll never develop good young players as they're stuck running around a muddy park field. Let the strong survive. Let the weak who can't survive fold. Let's introduce b teams with great facilities and let the youth get their experience and training. Let's progress for once

andy_m 19-10-2014 04:21
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35736076)
But what if it does? Numerous smaller clubs feel the pinch all the time. Cambridge United did not make a profit for a number of years. They would be stuffed if even a thousand fans decided not turn up each week because those fans would prefer to watch multi-millionaires cheat, dive and harass refs just to win a football game.

I imagine a number of other clubs would struggle too.

Once again, we have more clubs in this country than many other countries, so you can not apply the logic of countries to this one.

I refuse to believe the blackout is forced on tv companies without any research being conducted. There must be studies in this country which show what the effects of not having a blackout would do to certain clubs.

If the powers that be are stuck in the past, I agree, that its a shame. I just don't think they are.
I refuse to believe that you refuse to believe that there is any logic for this!

Ending the 3pm blackout actually offers an opportunity for clubs like Cambridge United. I mean absolutely no disrespect to that fine club, but I bet there are thousands more people who would consider themselves U's fans who don't go to matches than there are who do. End the 3pm blackout and they can watch every match live through their website, and United suddenly have themselves a new revenue stream.

I repeat - there is no evidence that the 3pm blackout has any effect on attendances, and with the improvements in technology since the 3pm blackout was introduced we are now in a position where clubs should see opportunities rather than problems if it were to be lifted.

harry_hitch 19-10-2014 11:19
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35736203)
I refuse to believe that you refuse to believe that there is any logic for this!

Ending the 3pm blackout actually offers an opportunity for clubs like Cambridge United. I mean absolutely no disrespect to that fine club, but I bet there are thousands more people who would consider themselves U's fans who don't go to matches than there are who do. End the 3pm blackout and they can watch every match live through their website, and United suddenly have themselves a new revenue stream.

I repeat - there is no evidence that the 3pm blackout has any effect on attendances, and with the improvements in technology since the 3pm blackout was introduced we are now in a position where clubs should see opportunities rather than problems if it were to be lifted.
That, sir, is a very valid point. That thought never entered my mind, I had it my head the only games that would made available would be PL games.

A good point, well made. I doth my proverbial cap to you, and leave this conversation with my tail firmly between my legs. :).

telegramsam 19-10-2014 12:18
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35736119)
We have too many professional clubs though. If they can't sustain themselves with their fan base and so rip off their fans with ticket prices to barely stay afloat they shouldn't be professional

I believe someone mentioned yesterday Germany a country 6x as big as ours has 44 less professional clubs. Staggering. Instead we continue to prop up small clubs with their tiny fan base and dreadful facilities and then wonder why grassroots football isn't producing good players

It's not nice but it's evolution. The strong survive. The weak clubs with a tiny fan base should simply close or become amateur. Instead we insist "nooooo but they've ALWAYS been here"

As a country we are stuck in the past. As a country we'll never develop good young players as they're stuck running around a muddy park field. Let the strong survive. Let the weak who can't survive fold. Let's introduce b teams with great facilities and let the youth get their experience and training. Let's progress for once
Sorry I disagree with you regarding stopping `propping up` the smaller clubs. I believe the richer clubs should be helping the lower league teams financially. In days gone by the lower league clubs survived by selling their better players to the bigger clubs but that doesn`t happen these days because the Premier league clubs prefer to buy big name foreign players. Yes the lower league clubs should stop ripping off their fans at the turnstile but then again don`t the Premier league clubs too?

1andrew1 19-10-2014 14:13
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35736203)
I refuse to believe that you refuse to believe that there is any logic for this!

Ending the 3pm blackout actually offers an opportunity for clubs like Cambridge United. I mean absolutely no disrespect to that fine club, but I bet there are thousands more people who would consider themselves U's fans who don't go to matches than there are who do. End the 3pm blackout and they can watch every match live through their website, and United suddenly have themselves a new revenue stream.

I repeat - there is no evidence that the 3pm blackout has any effect on attendances, and with the improvements in technology since the 3pm blackout was introduced we are now in a position where clubs should see opportunities rather than problems if it were to be lifted.
I'm afraid I'm going to risk unpopularity and disagree!

I think it's clear that all existing research must indicate that 3pm Premier League matches on TV would impact lower league attendances. It's pretty safe to conclude that if the Premier League could televise 3pm matches by proving no impact on the lower leagues then they would do so. The Premier League is very powerful and it is rare for them not to get their way. If they were sitting on a report that could earn them lots more money then why would they not use it?
Q. Please explain why the Premier League would not take up the chance to screen 3pm matches and get extra money for its clubs if it could do so by simply commissioning market research?

The cost of broadcasting matches is not the transmission costs but the costs of filming.

---------- Post added at 13:16 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

Re the Premier League Auction Process. I came across this great post on another site and heartily recommend it to anyone interested in the subject.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showp...postcount=5327

---------- Post added at 14:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35736119)
I believe someone mentioned yesterday Germany a country 6x as big as ours has 44 less professional clubs. Staggering.
Without sounding pedantic, that figure's clearly not true if we're talking about people. England has a population of 53m. Add in Wales gives a total population of 56m. Germany's population is 81m. So Germany is 45% larger than England & Wales, not six times. But still far larger and would still support your argument.

andy_m 19-10-2014 22:43
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
But every match is already filmed. All of the Premier League matches are available somewhere in the world live, and every League game has highlights at the very least shown. What's changed since the 3pm blackout was introduced since, what?, the 60's, at the request of lower league chairmen, is of course the transmission costs - all you need now is a decent internet connection.

The latest body of evidence I can find was presented to the European Court which ruled there is no impact. Not sure what else I can say on the subject.

Fwiw I think we'll see the blackout end at the next rights auction. Lower League clubs need to see it as an opportunity rather than a threat.

1andrew1 20-10-2014 12:44
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35736374)
But every match is already filmed. All of the Premier League matches are available somewhere in the world live, and every League game has highlights at the very least shown. What's changed since the 3pm blackout was introduced since, what?, the 60's, at the request of lower league chairmen, is of course the transmission costs - all you need now is a decent internet connection.

The latest body of evidence I can find was presented to the European Court which ruled there is no impact. Not sure what else I can say on the subject.

Fwiw I think we'll see the blackout end at the next rights auction. Lower League clubs need to see it as an opportunity rather than a threat.
I've had a look at the Wikipedia page and stand corrected - it seems that the Burnley chairman in the 60s managed to persuade everyone of the benefits of the 3pm blackout and it's remained there ever since. Wow, I would have expected some subsequent research and lobbying. Maybe this will occur still but I don't think the climate's right for change yet.

muppetman11 20-10-2014 18:34
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Sky Sports will show more rugby league than ever before next year.

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-leag...eague-fixtures

denphone 20-10-2014 18:51
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
One suspects they are covering more of some of these sports to compensate for the loss of the CL later next year.

muppetman11 20-10-2014 18:56
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Different days Den I think plus the rugby season finishes early on through the champions league.

TonyM19 20-10-2014 18:58
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35736502)
Sky Sports will show more rugby league than ever before next year.

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-leag...eague-fixtures
My only criticism is that Sky bought the rights to the second tier of RL (the Championship) and then are only showing a few games. Premier Sports had a Championship game per week.

The RL 4 Nations games are all on live on PS.

denphone 20-10-2014 19:11
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35736511)
Different days Den I think plus the rugby season finishes early on through the champions league.
l am talking about the other sports as well MM as Sky will try to pad out their future CL evenings with content from their many other sports rights.

andy_m 20-10-2014 19:18
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35736511)
Different days Den I think plus the rugby season finishes early on through the champions league.
I think it's part of a "new" model. If they can become the sole home of some sports they will retain, and attract subscribers, despite the apparent devaluation of their football offering. I, for example, love football, but I only subscribe to Sky Sports because of f1, I wouldn't otherwise.

alwaysabear 21-10-2014 16:09
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35736517)
I think it's part of a "new" model. If they can become the sole home of some sports they will retain, and attract subscribers, despite the apparent devaluation of their football offering. I, for example, love football, but I only subscribe to Sky Sports because of f1, I wouldn't otherwise.
Same here , but for American football.:)

Media Boy UK 21-10-2014 16:15
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
HD Channels of Sky Sports 3, Sky Sports 4 and Sky Sports 5 was added to UPC Ireland areas last Wednesday.

http://www.tvchannellists.com/List_o...n_UPC_(Ireland)

1andrew1 28-10-2014 00:06
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
I wouldn't say that the following is definitely happening as there is no point doing research if you're going to do something anyway! And BT does not have a 4K box and there's been no talk of a 4K YouView box anywhere. But the Champions League pricing sounds highly possible.

"This has not been announced officially, however the wife has just completed a survey which has extensive details of next season's BT Sport pricing.
There are going to be two options.....a Pack A containing the Premier League etc and a Pack A+B which contains CL football.
To get the European football you need to upgrade to A+B which will cost £4 per month extra if you watch BT Sport on a Sky box.
But if you have BT TV then the CL will be free. Looks like they are going all- out to sell their platform.
Also, it said that 4K matches will be broadcast exclusively on BT TV. And all red button matches will be HD only on BT TV."

http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Live-TV-...g/td-p/2187957

Doug P 28-10-2014 18:38
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Don't tell me the agreement with Virgin to show BT Sport runs out then? ;-)

telegramsam 28-10-2014 20:17
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35737794)
I wouldn't say that the following is definitely happening as there is no point doing research if you're going to do something anyway! And BT does not have a 4K box and there's been no talk of a 4K YouView box anywhere. But the Champions League pricing sounds highly possible.

"This has not been announced officially, however the wife has just completed a survey which has extensive details of next season's BT Sport pricing.
There are going to be two options.....a Pack A containing the Premier League etc and a Pack A+B which contains CL football.
To get the European football you need to upgrade to A+B which will cost £4 per month extra if you watch BT Sport on a Sky box.
But if you have BT TV then the CL will be free. Looks like they are going all- out to sell their platform.
Also, it said that 4K matches will be broadcast exclusively on BT TV. And all red button matches will be HD only on BT TV."

http://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Live-TV-...g/td-p/2187957
Also did that survey which also said `assuming BT Sport was no longer available on Virgin Media`. Not sure whether we can read anything in that or whether they simply wanted your opinion on which packs you`d choose other than through Virgin?

denphone 30-10-2014 15:16
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
BT fears a price war.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29829698

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...sports-TV.html

denphone 31-10-2014 13:44
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
BT chief puts boot into BSkyB for 'buying customers' as shares slide.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...res-slide.html

vincerooney 31-10-2014 14:16
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35738300)
BT chief puts boot into BSkyB for 'buying customers' as shares slide.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...res-slide.html
haha starting to feel the pinch. i wish i could show more sympathy for BT but they came into the market attempting to be the anti sky sports and be fair but really seem just as ruthless as sky.

i believe someone mentioned the other day they think sky sports will keep the same number of EPL games (to protect the money train sky) whilst BT sport will keep the same rights plus get a new extra package of games. sounds about right. keep sky happy give BT a bit more by creating even more televised football.

i expect premier league football on a friday night or 3 games on a sunday? friday night would be good

Gavin-D 05-11-2014 17:23
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
A court has ruled that BSkyB must make its Sky Sports 1 and 2 channels available on rival BT's YouView service

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29911809

OLD BOY 05-11-2014 19:00
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin-D (Post 35739253)
A court has ruled that BSkyB must make its Sky Sports 1 and 2 channels available on rival BT's YouView service

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29911809
Yes, heard this on Radio 5 tonight and they were speculating whether Sky would be forced to make all their channels available on all their platforms!

Sky is reported to be very unhappy. For us, it's good news that court judgements are beginning to follow the court of public opinion.

telegramsam 06-11-2014 19:48
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739278)
Yes, heard this on Radio 5 tonight and they were speculating whether Sky would be forced to make all their channels available on all their platforms!

Sky is reported to be very unhappy. For us, it's good news that court judgements are beginning to follow the court of public opinion.
Being forced to offer them to rivals is one thing but surely sky can still dictate how much they charge BT for them? Or will they have to charge the same as they do Virgin and Talk Talk?

1andrew1 07-11-2014 06:43
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telegramsam (Post 35739472)
Being forced to offer them to rivals is one thing but surely sky can still dictate how much they charge BT for them? Or will they have to charge the same as they do Virgin and Talk Talk?
The pricing is regulated too otherwise Sky would just do what it does with Atlantic and offer them at an unviable rate.

OLD BOY 07-11-2014 12:49
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35739513)
The pricing is regulated too otherwise Sky would just do what it does with Atlantic and offer them at an unviable rate.
It's about time that the regulators insisted that all channels should be available on all platforms if requested and at within regulated rates.

1andrew1 07-11-2014 13:00
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739549)
It's about time that the regulators insisted that all channels should be available on all platforms if requested and at within regulated rates.
You would probably end up with far fewer channels, a massive bureaucracy, many lawyers and higher subscription costs if you introduced such a system. Which is why no country has.

denphone 07-11-2014 13:07
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739549)
It's about time that the regulators insisted that all channels should be available on all platforms if requested and at within regulated rates.
Here here to that.

---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35739554)
You would probably end up with far fewer channels, a massive bureaucracy, many lawyers and higher subscription costs if you introduced such a system. Which is why no country has.
Sorry Andrew but that's a bit of a limp excuse.

OLD BOY 07-11-2014 13:12
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35739554)
You would probably end up with far fewer channels, a massive bureaucracy, many lawyers and higher subscription costs if you introduced such a system. Which is why no country has.
If it works for the premium channels, no need to be concerned about why it can't work for the basic channels as well.

Sky wouldn't have to pay for expensive lawyers, etc, if it just played by conventional rules of business instead of trying to screw their competitors and the general public.

Anypermitedroute 07-11-2014 15:05
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739562)
If it works for the premium channels, no need to be concerned about why it can't work for the basic channels as well.

Sky wouldn't have to pay for expensive lawyers, etc, if it just played by conventional rules of business instead of trying to screw their competitors and the general public.
but it didnt Old boy how long did we have until we received the remaining skysports 3,4 and F1 in HD, its only recently we are on par with this offering.

I know people will point out the regulation is for 1 & 2 but you couldnt of got 3, 4 and F1 without subscribing to 1 & 2 (I excluded 5 as this post VM/Sky shaking hands and doing business)

Bircho 07-11-2014 15:50
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
The issue is that the channel owner also controls the major distribution platform. Until these are split then it will always be a problem. One of the few things that worked in the telecom market was the split of Openreach from BT. Although BT still owns, they have to legally work at arms length.

1andrew1 07-11-2014 16:19
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35739560)
Here here to that.

---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------



Sorry Andrew but that's a bit of a limp excuse.
I disagree and have explained that no other country in the world does it. There are other remedies to make the market more competitive eg you could split up platform owners from content owners, sell sports rights per platform etc.

---------- Post added at 16:19 ---------- Previous post was at 16:15 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739562)
If it works for the premium channels, no need to be concerned about why it can't work for the basic channels as well.

Sky wouldn't have to pay for expensive lawyers, etc, if it just played by conventional rules of business instead of trying to screw their competitors and the general public.
Sky does play by the conventional rules of business. All companies use lawyers. Alas the business world's no longer the cosy club it may have been.

harry_hitch 07-11-2014 16:25
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739549)
It's about time that the regulators insisted that all channels should be available on all platforms if requested and at within regulated rates.
Why? Should all mobiles be available on all networks? Should VM give everyone else their BB? Should Apple allow all MP3 player makers to use their technology? Should TiVo partner with every provider in the UK? Or is it just wrong for Sky to keep a few shows exclusive?

Mad Max 07-11-2014 17:23
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35739619)
Why? Should all mobiles be available on all networks? Should VM give everyone else their BB? Should Apple allow all MP3 player makers to use their technology? Should TiVo partner with every provider in the UK? Or is it just wrong for Sky to keep a few shows exclusive?

The last bit........:D

OLD BOY 08-11-2014 14:34
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35739619)
Why? Should all mobiles be available on all networks? Should VM give everyone else their BB? Should Apple allow all MP3 player makers to use their technology? Should TiVo partner with every provider in the UK? Or is it just wrong for Sky to keep a few shows exclusive?
It's the wrong analogy, Andrew. I can go and get broadband from other companies. I can choose which mobile network to use, and so on. However, there is only one Game of Thrones and I don't see why one company should be hogging all the rights so that a huge section of the TV audience can't see it.

I'm glad that you are happy with this situation, Andrew but most of us think it is unfair.

---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anypermitedroute (Post 35739591)
but it didnt Old boy how long did we have until we received the remaining skysports 3,4 and F1 in HD, its only recently we are on par with this offering.

I know people will point out the regulation is for 1 & 2 but you couldnt of got 3, 4 and F1 without subscribing to 1 & 2 (I excluded 5 as this post VM/Sky shaking hands and doing business)
yes, but the only reason for the delay in getting these channels was that the regulation wasn't extensive enough. There's no reason at all why the HD and other Sky Sports channels could not have been covered also. It was sloppy of the regulators not to finish the job.

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:27 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35739616)
I disagree and have explained that no other country in the world does it. There are other remedies to make the market more competitive eg you could split up platform owners from content owners, sell sports rights per platform etc.

---------- Post added at 16:19 ---------- Previous post was at 16:15 ----------

 Sky does play by the conventional rules of business. All companies use lawyers. Alas the business world's no longer the cosy club it may have been.
No, they are stretching the boundaries to their own advantage.. They tried to kill off Virgin. They are not a nice company at all IMO. The Government should be ensuring that businesses play nice and for the benefit of the consumer as well as the shareholders. At the moment, the balance is not right.

1andrew1 08-11-2014 15:47
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739762)
I'm glad that you are happy with this situation, Andrew but most of us think it is unfair.
I've never said that I'm happy, just that regulating all channels is not a good solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739762)
No, they are stretching the boundaries to their own advantage. They tried to kill off Virgin. They are not a nice company at all IMO. The Government should be ensuring that businesses play nice and for the benefit of the consumer as well as the shareholders. At the moment, the balance is not right.
Trying to kill off the competition is conventional business, whether that's nice or not is an entirely different question. The UK government offering lots of small cable franchises as oppose to a single licence and Robert Maxwell's asset-stripping stewardship of Rediffusion probably harmed cable more than Sky has ever done.

harry_hitch 08-11-2014 16:14
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739762)
It's the wrong analogy, Andrew. I can go and get broadband from other companies. I can choose which mobile network to use, and so on. However, there is only one Game of Thrones and I don't see why one company should be hogging all the rights so that a huge section of the TV audience can't see it.

I'm glad that you are happy with this situation, Andrew but most of us think it is unfair.[COLOR="Silver"]
Erm, as I much like you attributing this to Andrew, I am afraid the quote is mine. It is a fair analogy, you can get HBO stuff via nowtv as well and back seasons from many other places. So you don't need to go Sky directly. I know NowTV lines Sky's pockets but, it is another option. You can not get the bb speeds VM offer from anyone else (I don't think - happy to be corrected.) You could only get the iPhone on O2 for a long time, so it does happen in other worlds.

Please also tell me where I have said I am happy with the situation or where it is fair? I am simply saying Sky are doing nothing wrong as a business. It's just they are upsetting non-sky customers.

OLD BOY 08-11-2014 19:23
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35739774)
Erm, as I much like you attributing this to Andrew, I am afraid the quote is mine. It is a fair analogy, you can get HBO stuff via nowtv as well and back seasons from many other places. So you don't need to go Sky directly. I know NowTV lines Sky's pockets but, it is another option. You can not get the bb speeds VM offer from anyone else (I don't think - happy to be corrected.) You could only get the iPhone on O2 for a long time, so it does happen in other worlds.

Please also tell me where I have said I am happy with the situation or where it is fair? I am simply saying Sky are doing nothing wrong as a business. It's just they are upsetting non-sky customers.
Sorry for calling you Andrew, Harry. :erm: :sorry:

harry_hitch 08-11-2014 20:42
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739806)
Sorry for calling you Andrew, Harry. :erm: :sorry:
No worries, it happens.:)

devilincarnate 09-11-2014 13:52
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35739806)
Sorry for calling you Andrew, Harry. :erm: :sorry:
It's ok Bob:p:

1andrew1 09-11-2014 14:38
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35739884)
It's ok Bob:p:
lol, regards Harry. :D

andy_m 09-11-2014 20:53
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
What about when o2 was the only place you could get an I phone? or ee was the only company offering 4g? Or, ahem, Virgin where the only broadband provider offering fibre broadband?

OLD BOY 11-11-2014 12:22
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35739996)
What about when o2 was the only place you could get an I phone? or ee was the only company offering 4g? Or, ahem, Virgin where the only broadband provider offering fibre broadband?
It didn't stop other companies offering it though, did it?

With withheld Sky channels, no platform can offer it, even if they wanted to, except at ruinous prices, and that is the point.

muppetman11 11-11-2014 13:12
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35740285)
It didn't stop other companies offering it though, did it?

With withheld Sky channels, no platform can offer it, even if they wanted to, except at ruinous prices, and that is the point.
They started Sky Atlantic to enhance their offering on the Sky platform just like VM struck an exclusive deal with TIVO to enhance theirs.

If you want to watch content on Sky Atlantic its simple you either subscribe to Sky or pay £6.99 for a Now TV entertainment pass how is this any different from me wanting to watch the latest season of House of Cards or Breaking Bad by subscription ? My only option here is to subscribe to Netflix and pay £5.99.

Whether you love or hate exclusivity its here to stay in my opinion.

OLD BOY 11-11-2014 13:24
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35740303)
They started Sky Atlantic to enhance their offering on the Sky platform just like VM struck an exclusive deal with TIVO to enhance theirs.

If you want to watch content on Sky Atlantic its simple you either subscribe to Sky or pay £6.99 for a Now TV entertainment pass how is this any different from me wanting to watch the latest season of House of Cards or Breaking Bad by subscription ? My only option here is to subscribe to Netflix and pay £5.99.

Whether you love or hate exclusivity its here to stay in my opinion.
I don't subscribe to the view that because that's the way it is, that's the way it has to stay.

It is possible that market forces will sort this out sooner or later, but I think regulation is required or I'll be dead before we see any meaningful change.

harry_hitch 11-11-2014 14:41
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35740285)
It didn't stop other companies offering it though, did it?

With withheld Sky channels, no platform can offer it, even if they wanted to, except at ruinous prices, and that is the point.
I was not aware of any other company using VM's BB for their customers. I am happy to be proved wrong if there are companies sharing it for their customers benefit.

It is not difficult to get around it, just subscribe to NowTV for a few weeks whilst the shows you want to watch are on.

I have to agree with MM, exclusives have been and will always be around. It is only a problem for some people now, because a few average (in my eyes) shows are not available on VM. It drives me insane. If VM had done it, everyone would be praising them.

If this is one of the biggest problems people have in there lives, they should be very pleased.

denphone 13-11-2014 11:14
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Sky Sports launches special darts channel for the William Hill World Championship.

http://www1.skysports.com/darts/news...d-championship

Anypermitedroute 13-11-2014 12:48
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35740742)
Sky Sports launches special darts channel for the William Hill World Championship.

http://www1.skysports.com/darts/news...d-championship
more of a rebrand of sky sport 3 rather than a launch of a new channel

OLD BOY 14-11-2014 13:12
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35740323)
I was not aware of any other company using VM's BB for their customers. I am happy to be proved wrong if there are companies sharing it for their customers benefit.

It is not difficult to get around it, just subscribe to NowTV for a few weeks whilst the shows you want to watch are on.

I have to agree with MM, exclusives have been and will always be around. It is only a problem for some people now, because a few average (in my eyes) shows are not available on VM. It drives me insane. If VM had done it, everyone would be praising them.

If this is one of the biggest problems people have in there lives, they should be very pleased.
No, I didn't mean that, Harry. I was trying to make the point that if you didn't get broadband through VM, other platforms offer broadband, so it's not a problem.

However, other platforms can't offer Sky Atlantic or any of the programmes that are shown on it as 'exclusive to Sky'.

Therefore, the broadband analogy is not the correct one to use.

andy_m 14-11-2014 16:23
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35740285)
It didn't stop other companies offering it though, did it?

With withheld Sky channels, no platform can offer it, even if they wanted to, except at ruinous prices, and that is the point.
Yes. When the iPhone was exclusive with O2 the other companies were stopped from offering it.

---------- Post added at 16:21 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

The truth of the matter is that the last thing we as consumers actually want is companies offering exactly the same product as each other. Differentiation, and exclusivity on some things like Atlantic, mean that companies like Virgin have to respond through innovation and price - hence TiVo and some pretty decent retention deals. Anyone who thinks two companies with nothing to compete with each other on other than price would engage in a price war to the benefit of the consumer is kidding themselves. The competition would, in effect, become between pay tv and non pay tv and as we can already see from the UK market, people who have decided to pay for TV will do so regardless of the fact that a pretty decent offering is already available for free. There will be no incentive for Sky or Virgin to innovate, they will simply stand still. What would be the point of Virgin signing deals wit TiVo if Sky would automatically have the same deal? What would be the point of Sky signing a deal with HBO if Virgin would have access to the same programming? If these things had never happened you'd be stuck with V+hd, Sky+hd would never have improved to the extent it has and you'd spend most of your time trying to find HBO content in the early hours on BBC 2, if it even ever came.

These types of deals are good for companies because they are good for the consumer. Trying to open up the market by effectively closing it down and forcing companies to share what they've won the right to through good thinking, good negotiating and good marketing, will just result in there being no point in bothering. In the meantime, there are other, perfectly legal, ways of enjoying HBO shows. Maybe not first run, maybe not directly through your tv platform, but they exist. I can't help thinking if people really wanted to watch the shows on Atlantic they'd have sourced them from elsewhere by now and that, actually, this argument is more just an opportunity to have an unnecessary dig than about a real desire to see the channel arrive.

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------

That said all of this is off topic!

alwaysabear 14-11-2014 16:42
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35741041)
Yes. When the iPhone was exclusive with O2 the other companies were stopped from offering it.

---------- Post added at 16:21 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

The truth of the matter is that the last thing we as consumers actually want is companies offering exactly the same product as each other. Differentiation, and exclusivity on some things like Atlantic, mean that companies like Virgin have to respond through innovation and price - hence TiVo and some pretty decent retention deals. Anyone who thinks two companies with nothing to compete with each other on other than price would engage in a price war to the benefit of the consumer is kidding themselves. The competition would, in effect, become between pay tv and non pay tv and as we can already see from the UK market, people who have decided to pay for TV will do so regardless of the fact that a pretty decent offering is already available for free. There will be no incentive for Sky or Virgin to innovate, they will simply stand still. What would be the point of Virgin signing deals wit TiVo if Sky would automatically have the same deal? What would be the point of Sky signing a deal with HBO if Virgin would have access to the same programming? If these things had never happened you'd be stuck with V+hd, Sky+hd would never have improved to the extent it has and you'd spend most of your time trying to find HBO content in the early hours on BBC 2, if it even ever came.

These types of deals are good for companies because they are good for the consumer. Trying to open up the market by effectively closing it down and forcing companies to share what they've won the right to through good thinking, good negotiating and good marketing, will just result in there being no point in bothering. In the meantime, there are other, perfectly legal, ways of enjoying HBO shows. Maybe not first run, maybe not directly through your tv platform, but they exist. I can't help thinking if people really wanted to watch the shows on Atlantic they'd have sourced them from elsewhere by now and that, actually, this argument is more just an opportunity to have an unnecessary dig than about a real desire to see the channel arrive.

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------

That said all of this is off topic!
Nice post :tu:

passingbat 14-11-2014 19:02
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35741041)
actually, this argument is more just an opportunity to have an unnecessary dig than about a real desire to see the channel arrive.
If that's what you think, then you really have missed the point of those wanting access to HBO content.

In the US, HBO is available to many cable/satellite providers; in the UK, it is limited to one. I believe a cable/sat subscription gives you access to HBO GO.

Box sets are way overpriced and take several months to be released. Individual episodes are also way overpriced.

Using services like Now TV is an option for people like myself, because I no longer subscribe to pay TV. But for those who do subscribe to (an already very expensive) pay TV service, an extra seven quid a month is beyond the pale.

Now TV is a very poor HBO service anyway compared to HBO GO, in that back seasons are absent for very long periods of time.

HBO were greedy by doing the deal with Sky in preference to wider accessibility for people in the UK.

I don't do it myself, but HBO deserve all the illegal downloads that they get. When will they learn; give people widely available access to content at a fair price and they will pay.

This is about greater access to HBO content; nothing whatsoever about having a dig at Sky

Mad Max 14-11-2014 19:33
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35741074)
If that's what you think, then you really have missed the point of those wanting access to HBO content.

In the US, HBO is available to many cable/satellite providers; in the UK, it is limited to one. I believe a cable/sat subscription gives you access to HBO GO.

Box sets are way overpriced and take several months to be released. Individual episodes are also way overpriced.

Using services like Now TV is an option for people like myself, because I no longer subscribe to pay TV. But for those who do subscribe to (an already very expensive) pay TV service, an extra seven quid a month is beyond the pale.

Now TV is a very poor HBO service anyway compared to HBO GO, in that back seasons are absent for very long periods of time.

HBO were greedy by doing the deal with Sky in preference to wider accessibility for people in the UK.

I don't do it myself, but HBO deserve all the illegal downloads that they get. When will they learn; give people widely available access to content at a fair price and they will pay.

This is about greater access to HBO content; nothing whatsoever about having a dig at Sky

Great post mate, well said.......:tu:

harry_hitch 14-11-2014 23:46
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35741010)
No, I didn't mean that, Harry. I was trying to make the point that if you didn't get broadband through VM, other platforms offer broadband, so it's not a problem.

However, other platforms can't offer Sky Atlantic or any of the programmes that are shown on it as 'exclusive to Sky'.

Therefore, the broadband analogy is not the correct one to use.
But who else offers VMs speeds or related reliability. Also you can legally buy HBO content from a variety of places, not just sky.

Unlike VM broadband and their speeds, which are only available for VM customers. Or Netflix, which don't share their exclusive content.

HBO shows can be watched without funding Sky, you just wanna moan about it.

andy_m 15-11-2014 03:52
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35741074)
If that's what you think, then you really have missed the point of those wanting access to HBO content.

In the US, HBO is available to many cable/satellite providers; in the UK, it is limited to one. I believe a cable/sat subscription gives you access to HBO GO.

Box sets are way overpriced and take several months to be released. Individual episodes are also way overpriced.

Using services like Now TV is an option for people like myself, because I no longer subscribe to pay TV. But for those who do subscribe to (an already very expensive) pay TV service, an extra seven quid a month is beyond the pale.

Now TV is a very poor HBO service anyway compared to HBO GO, in that back seasons are absent for very long periods of time.

HBO were greedy by doing the deal with Sky in preference to wider accessibility for people in the UK.

I don't do it myself, but HBO deserve all the illegal downloads that they get. When will they learn; give people widely available access to content at a fair price and they will pay.

This is about greater access to HBO content; nothing whatsoever about having a dig at Sky
Maybe it is. I merely said that I can't help thinking it isn't.

Do cablecos in the US compete in the same geographical areas as each other? It seems to me that hbo's greed in the much different market in the UK has resulted in the pay tv co with the most customers and the biggest reach getting the deal.

More to the point, why does anyone think they're entitled to watch it? Hbo make stuff and are entitled to sell it to whomever they like. Sky buy stuff and are entitled to show it to whomever they like. I have no involvement in either of those actions - so why should I expect to see it on my tv?

OLD BOY 15-11-2014 16:18
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35741074)
If that's what you think, then you really have missed the point of those wanting access to HBO content.

In the US, HBO is available to many cable/satellite providers; in the UK, it is limited to one. I believe a cable/sat subscription gives you access to HBO GO.

Box sets are way overpriced and take several months to be released. Individual episodes are also way overpriced.

Using services like Now TV is an option for people like myself, because I no longer subscribe to pay TV. But for those who do subscribe to (an already very expensive) pay TV service, an extra seven quid a month is beyond the pale.

Now TV is a very poor HBO service anyway compared to HBO GO, in that back seasons are absent for very long periods of time.

HBO were greedy by doing the deal with Sky in preference to wider accessibility for people in the UK.

I don't do it myself, but HBO deserve all the illegal downloads that they get. When will they learn; give people widely available access to content at a fair price and they will pay.

This is about greater access to HBO content; nothing whatsoever about having a dig at Sky
I agree. I think Andy is defending the indefensible. You don't need to rely on exclusivity to differentiate your product.

telegramsam 15-11-2014 16:18
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Slightly off topic I know but does anyone know how you can get rid of the `red button` at the bottom right of the screen when watching Sky 5? It was so annoying me when watching Scotland v Ireland match last night!

OLD BOY 15-11-2014 16:22
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35741114)
But who else offers VMs speeds or related reliability. Also you can legally buy HBO content from a variety of places, not just sky.

Unlike VM broadband and their speeds, which are only available for VM customers. Or Netflix, which don't share their exclusive content.

HBO shows can be watched without funding Sky, you just wanna moan about it.
Sorry, Harry, I can't agree. VM may have the best broadband speeds at the moment, but there is nothing to prevent other companies investing to provide those speeds. BT are certainly getting there. It is completely the wrong analogy.

I maintain that when you are dealing with a product that is stand alone, such as the Game of Thrones series, there should be a legal obligation to make it available on all platforms without discrimination and at the same price. How the platforms package it is up to them.

I can live with a short six month or even a year exclusivity, but after that I think it is unreasonable.

muppetman11 15-11-2014 17:27
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35741225)
Sorry, Harry, I can't agree. VM may have the best broadband speeds at the moment, but there is nothing to prevent other companies investing to provide those speeds. BT are certainly getting there. It is completely the wrong analogy.

I maintain that when you are dealing with a product that is stand alone, such as the Game of Thrones series, there should be a legal obligation to make it available on all platforms without discrimination and at the same price. How the platforms package it is up to them.

I can live with a short six month or even a year exclusivity, but after that I think it is unreasonable.
What makes Game of Thrones any different from say Breaking Bad on Netflix ? Last time I looked I could only watch Breaking Bad through a subscription with Netflix the only other option is paying for the DVD or purchasing a digital copy from the likes of iTunes.

spiderplant 15-11-2014 18:50
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telegramsam (Post 35741224)
Slightly off topic I know but does anyone know how you can get rid of the `red button` at the bottom right of the screen when watching Sky 5? It was so annoying me when watching Scotland v Ireland match last night!
Press the blue button. Pressing Clear also works on TiVo.

passingbat 15-11-2014 19:46
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35741119)

More to the point, why does anyone think they're entitled to watch it? Hbo make stuff and are entitled to sell it to whomever they like. Sky buy stuff and are entitled to show it to whomever they like. I have no involvement in either of those actions - so why should I expect to see it on my tv?

Technically you are right.

But the internet has shrunk the world and people are used to immediacy now and expect it. They don't want to wait 6 months to see an episode that social media has already discussed and therefore 'spoiled' the story line.

Viewing habits have changed drastically and people get frustrated with the old system of content being tied to specific cable or satellite providers, when they know that the wherewithal is there to give global access via the web to all who want to pay for it. There is a rapidly growing number of Cord-Cutters who are frustrated at the limitations that the old system, by it's very nature, imposes.

The music industry finally learned, giving rise to Napster becoming legal, followed by the likes of Spotify. The announcement of HBO re an online service next year is a great sign. We just need the roots of the old system to stop strangling the progress of the new direction. The people want it, so eventually the content providers will have to get on board.

andy_m 16-11-2014 04:48
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35741223)
I agree. I think Andy is defending the indefensible. You don't need to rely on exclusivity to differentiate your product.
You don't need to. But you should be allowed to.

---------- Post added at 04:48 ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35741269)
Technically you are right.

But the internet has shrunk the world and people are used to immediacy now and expect it. They don't want to wait 6 months to see an episode that social media has already discussed and therefore 'spoiled' the story line.

Viewing habits have changed drastically and people get frustrated with the old system of content being tied to specific cable or satellite providers, when they know that the wherewithal is there to give global access via the web to all who want to pay for it. There is a rapidly growing number of Cord-Cutters who are frustrated at the limitations that the old system, by it's very nature, imposes.

The music industry finally learned, giving rise to Napster becoming legal, followed by the likes of Spotify. The announcement of HBO re an online service next year is a great sign. We just need the roots of the old system to stop strangling the progress of the new direction. The people want it, so eventually the content providers will have to get on board.
Fair comment I'd say. Particularly about social media driving the necessity for immediacy.

telegramsam 16-11-2014 12:22
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 35741257)
Press the blue button. Pressing Clear also works on TiVo.
Thanks for that mate. Never thought of pressing the blue button!:o:

harry_hitch 16-11-2014 13:51
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35741225)
Sorry, Harry, I can't agree. VM may have the best broadband speeds at the moment, but there is nothing to prevent other companies investing to provide those speeds. BT are certainly getting there. It is completely the wrong analogy.

I maintain that when you are dealing with a product that is stand alone, such as the Game of Thrones series, there should be a legal obligation to make it available on all platforms without discrimination and at the same price. How the platforms package it is up to them.

I can live with a short six month or even a year exclusivity, but after that I think it is unreasonable.
You can get G.O.T elsewhere too. It is not just available on Sky or NowTV. It is a fair analogy. When I had Sky BB, it was far inferior to VM's BB and cost me more than I pay VM. You can watch G.O.T from other providers whose offering is inferior to Sky's and ultimately costs more.

No-one has ever said what Sky are doing is fair, but they have every right to do it. No legal obligation to make the content available should be set up. Netflix would be pretty stuffed as a company if they were forced to give Sky and VM their exclusive content.

telegramsam 16-11-2014 15:07
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
How can I actually tell how cheap my broadband is with Virgin when they bundle it all in with the tv package? When I was with Sky their broadband was only 7 pound 50 p and worked just as good as Virgins.

harry_hitch 17-11-2014 15:50
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telegramsam (Post 35741398)
How can I actually tell how cheap my broadband is with Virgin when they bundle it all in with the tv package? When I was with Sky their broadband was only 7 pound 50 p and worked just as good as Virgins.
Its odd you ask that, considering you have the info on what you paid Sky.

That being said, it was over 5 years ago now, but I managed to find a break down of bundle costs before I joined VM. My bill is lower now than is was then too. I was paying Sky more, whilst receiving less MB's from Sky BB - even though we had a new deal from Sky.

telegramsam 17-11-2014 16:07
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35741572)
Its odd you ask that, considering you have the info on what you paid Sky.

That being said, it was over 5 years ago now, but I managed to find a break down of bundle costs before I joined VM. My bill is lower now than is was then too. I was paying Sky more, whilst receiving less MB's from Sky BB - even though we had a new deal from Sky.
Yes I know I have the cost of broadband from sky was just wondering whether one could get a breakdown of the cost of my broadband from virgin? The reason I ask is I am mulling over whether it would work out cheaper to get my broadband and phone line rental elsewhere but keep my tv package with virgin

Superblade7 17-11-2014 18:37
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telegramsam (Post 35741576)
Yes I know I have the cost of broadband from sky was just wondering whether one could get a breakdown of the cost of my broadband from virgin? The reason I ask is I am mulling over whether it would work out cheaper to get my broadband and phone line rental elsewhere but keep my tv package with virgin
You'll not be able to get a specific price on your broadband mate as if you have a triple play bundle then you are charged a bundle price. The advertised price of the bundle is the sum of the component parts minus a bundle discount.

If you want a rough idea the standalone broadband prices can be found here http://store.virginmedia.com/broadba...ex.html#bbonly

Check out the standalone TV prices here (http://store.virginmedia.com/digital...-tv/index.html) too as each time you remove an element of the triple play bundle, the discount reduces. Therefore dependant on your package, you may find that removing certain services doesn't actually reduce you bundle costs as much as you thought.

Hope this helps :)

telegramsam - although I've answered your question, you may wish to start a new thread if you wish to discuss further as we've taken the thread off-topic (apologies mods)

Gavin-D 18-11-2014 09:30
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Breaking: Premier League TV rights to be probed by Ofcom

Ofcom has opened an investigation into how the Premier League sells live TV media rights for Premier League football matches in the UK.

The investigation will be carried out under the Competition Act.

It follows a complaint from Virgin Media, which was submitted to Ofcom in September.

Ofcom investigates where there are reasonable grounds for suspecting an agreement may be intended to prevent, restrict or distort competition.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30095012

denphone 18-11-2014 09:41
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
About time too.

vincerooney 18-11-2014 09:41
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin-D (Post 35741654)
Breaking: Premier League TV rights to be probed by Ofcom

Ofcom has opened an investigation into how the Premier League sells live TV media rights for Premier League football matches in the UK.

The investigation will be carried out under the Competition Act.

It follows a complaint from Virgin Media, which was submitted to Ofcom in September.

Ofcom investigates where there are reasonable grounds for suspecting an agreement may be intended to prevent, restrict or distort competition.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30095012
excellent news but somehow i feel it'll come back to bite us all....

the EPL will always always find a way to keep the money rolling in regardless of whether its legal or not. its got past the point of no return again

pk1 18-11-2014 10:05
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
There will be no change, as the report will no doubt find that no agreement stands, and Ofcom will of failed again to get everyone a better deal for watching football.

For £3bn you would think that would give you the rights to show all matches live, not just via Sky & BT. Why not create smaller packages of games that other TV companies could bid for?

muppetman11 18-11-2014 10:07
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pk1 (Post 35741663)
There will be no change, as the report will no doubt find that no agreement stands, and Ofcom will of failed again to get everyone a better deal for watching football.

For £3bn you would think that would give you the rights to show all matches live, not just via Sky & BT. Why not create smaller packages of games that other TV companies could bid for?
Better still why doesn't the premier league setup its own channel and distribute across all platforms and online.

harry_hitch 18-11-2014 10:09
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35741657)
excellent news but somehow i feel it'll come back to bite us all....

the EPL will always always find a way to keep the money rolling in regardless of whether its legal or not. its got past the point of no return again
Yup, cos we are all forced to pay them what they want. It's not as if people have a choice whether or not they can cancel their sports subscription....oh, wait.

denphone 18-11-2014 10:12
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35741664)
Better still why doesn't the premier league setup its own channel and distribute across all platforms and online.
A excellent idea but one unlikely to happen.

vincerooney 18-11-2014 10:34
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry_hitch (Post 35741665)
Yup, cos we are all forced to pay them what they want. It's not as if people have a choice whether or not they can cancel their sports subscription....oh, wait.
If you love football and you've watched for many, many years and enjoy watching then you can't? i understand the point you're making but for people who do enjoy watching sport and its one of lifes little pleasures then you dont want to cancel?

The point i'm making is costs will continue to spiral both watching at the grounds and on tv because of the lack of controls on our sport at the moment. we have the most expensive league for attending and for tv subscriptions in all of europe. thats a fact.

Things will never ever improve for fairness if we just say "well we can cancel if it gets too much"

denphone 18-11-2014 10:46
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35741670)
If you love football and you've watched for many, many years and enjoy watching then you can't? i understand the point you're making but for people who do enjoy watching sport and its one of lifes little pleasures then you dont want to cancel?

The point i'm making is costs will continue to spiral both watching at the grounds and on tv because of the lack of controls on our sport at the moment. we have the most expensive league for attending and for tv subscriptions in all of europe. thats a fact.

Things will never ever improve for fairness if we just say "well we can cancel if it gets too much"
Indeed people have a choice in a good many things in life as some spend their money on a good many other things which they enjoy and at the end of the day its all about personal choice and whether people want to stump up to continue their enjoyment of such things.

alwaysabear 18-11-2014 11:40
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35741664)
Better still why doesn't the premier league setup its own channel and distribute across all platforms and online.
Great idea, but that would mean them spending their own money to set it up!

one2escape 18-11-2014 11:59
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
The sooner they just offer legal streaming the better. I subscribe to SS and get BT with the package I am on and most weekends my team on TV. I know if I wanted I could get the match with 3 clicks from the search. The burying the head in the sand approach cant continue for much longer and hopefully this investigation will give them kick in the bum to do something about it. Watching "TV" on the virgin box for me and my family is now at the level of just watching IMACGMOOH and live football. They need to get with the times now.

OLD BOY 18-11-2014 12:36
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35741239)
What makes Game of Thrones any different from say Breaking Bad on Netflix ? Last time I looked I could only watch Breaking Bad through a subscription with Netflix the only other option is paying for the DVD or purchasing a digital copy from the likes of iTunes.
Well of course there is no difference if Breaking Bad is exclusive to Netflix. I'm not saying it's ok for Netflix to have an exclusivity arrangement but Sky can't!

---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35741309)
You don't need to. But you should be allowed to..
So you are quite happy with the status quo and the fact that Virgin Media cannot show Sky Atlantic? That's a strange position for you to take, surely?

Unless, of course, you don't want Sky Atlantic or you are happy for Sky to decide who gets what in relation to Sky Sports channels!

---------- Post added at 12:36 ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by one2escape (Post 35741682)
The sooner they just offer legal streaming the better. I subscribe to SS and get BT with the package I am on and most weekends my team on TV. I know if I wanted I could get the match with 3 clicks from the search. The burying the head in the sand approach cant continue for much longer and hopefully this investigation will give them kick in the bum to do something about it. Watching "TV" on the virgin box for me and my family is now at the level of just watching IMACGMOOH and live football. They need to get with the times now.
Agreed, we must get some common sense into this.

1andrew1 18-11-2014 12:42
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 35741664)
Better still why doesn't the premier league setup its own channel and distribute across all platforms and online.
We all know the answer why - it will get more money from auctioning the rights than it will get from setting up its own platform.

muppetman11 18-11-2014 13:46
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35741690)
We all know the answer why - it will get more money from auctioning the rights than it will get from setting up its own platform.
Agreed reading my post back I worded it poorly , I was more meaning in an ideal world where the fan was put first and every platform gained equal access.

Of course these bumper paydays for the premier league are reliant on people continuing to subscribe to pay TV , whilst figures are holding their own at the moment it can easily go the other way especially as the streaming market matures , more and more US Sports broadcasters are offering online only access with no need for a pay TV subscription.

harry_hitch 18-11-2014 15:14
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 35741670)
If you love football and you've watched for many, many years and enjoy watching then you can't? i understand the point you're making but for people who do enjoy watching sport and its one of lifes little pleasures then you dont want to cancel?

The point i'm making is costs will continue to spiral both watching at the grounds and on tv because of the lack of controls on our sport at the moment. we have the most expensive league for attending and for tv subscriptions in all of europe. thats a fact.

Things will never ever improve for fairness if we just say "well we can cancel if it gets too much"
I used to love football as well, but the ever increasing cost of it, the wages players are paid and the player attitudes of win at all costs (diving, cheating refs, pressuring refs for decisions) puts me off massively now. As does the large number of foriegn owners, large numbers of average foriegn players stopping the British players, the lack of video technology (more needs to happen and sooner rather than later) and Blatter slowly destroying the game from the very top.

Of course the clubs are going to keep fleecing the fans who go to the matches, why would they not? It's not right, but clubs are businesses now. The owners plough millions of pounds into the clubs, it is obvious they will want to make the most of amount of money they can in return for their investment.

Of course things will improve. If enough people cancel for a long enough period Sky will soon realise they need to charge the customer less and then they will have to spend less money to get the PL rights. Yes, other companies will get the PL rights, but the prices for a football only package of sports will be pretty low.

I love Cricket, Rugby and Golf but I refuse to pay Sky the money they ask for to watch it. It really pains me to miss the Ashes, the England Internationals (golf and rugby) and all the major Golf tournaments, but for me, a line has to be drawn somewhere.

If people choose to keep paying for sports, that is, of course, their right. I waste my money on books, blurays, CD'S, alcohol and good(ish) food.

Just, please don't come on here and moan about the fact that the PL and Sky are trying to make as much money as possible (which as businesses they will do) and that there is nothing you can do about it. You know price rises will happen year in year out, stating the obvious on here is not going to change anything.

andy_m 18-11-2014 17:24
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35741686)

[/COLOR]So you are quite happy with the status quo and the fact that Virgin Media cannot show Sky Atlantic? That's a strange position for you to take, surely?

Unless, of course, you don't want Sky Atlantic or you are happy for Sky to decide who gets what in relation to Sky Sports channels![COLOR="Silver"]
I'm happy that I have a choice between various providers offering different services, and I'm happy with the choice I've made.

In general I'm also happy for businesses to decide how best to monetise their own products.

That's my position.

telegramsam 18-11-2014 18:11
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superblade7 (Post 35741599)
You'll not be able to get a specific price on your broadband mate as if you have a triple play bundle then you are charged a bundle price. The advertised price of the bundle is the sum of the component parts minus a bundle discount.

If you want a rough idea the standalone broadband prices can be found here http://store.virginmedia.com/broadba...ex.html#bbonly

Check out the standalone TV prices here (http://store.virginmedia.com/digital...-tv/index.html) too as each time you remove an element of the triple play bundle, the discount reduces. Therefore dependant on your package, you may find that removing certain services doesn't actually reduce you bundle costs as much as you thought.

Hope this helps :)

telegramsam - although I've answered your question, you may wish to start a new thread if you wish to discuss further as we've taken the thread off-topic (apologies mods)
Thanks yes it does help somewhat

Superblade7 18-11-2014 20:17
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin-D (Post 35741654)
Breaking: Premier League TV rights to be probed by Ofcom

Ofcom has opened an investigation into how the Premier League sells live TV media rights for Premier League football matches in the UK.

The investigation will be carried out under the Competition Act.

It follows a complaint from Virgin Media, which was submitted to Ofcom in September.

Ofcom investigates where there are reasonable grounds for suspecting an agreement may be intended to prevent, restrict or distort competition.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30095012
Like others have said, it'll probably end up biting us in the bum. Whilst ever they continue to sell packs of games, the consumer will have to pay 2 or more providers to watch all the games.

The only way it would ever be better for the consumer is like it states in the article for both BT and Sky (and any other interested parties) to get access to all the games. This would then give real competition as consumers could choose which provider they want to use to watch the footy and would drive prices down as they compete for business.

andy_m 18-11-2014 21:22
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
That would eventually force the less successful provider out of the business, leaving just one to charge what it wants, and we'd be back where we started. The current system isn't perfect, but it does allow the consumer choice between a more expensive package with more coverage or a cheaper option with fewer games. That's also a model which allows provider's outlay to be proportionate to its related revenues, something which couldn't be guaranteed if a provider with a smaller number of subscribers was offering effectively the same package as a provider with over ten million.

I have a feeling that the investigation will, rightly, conclude that there is no significant reason to change the status quo, and that that decision will be met with predictable outrage.

OLD BOY 19-11-2014 12:50
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35741729)
I'm happy that I have a choice between various providers offering different services, and I'm happy with the choice I've made.

In general I'm also happy for businesses to decide how best to monetise their own products.

That's my position.
Why should you have to choose between the services when by selecting either major platform you lose out on exclusive programming that you want to see and can only access by choosing both (and paying more for the pleasure)?

It does not make sense and the fact that this can happen quite legally at present doesn't mean the Government can't do anything about changing it. The current position is quite nonsensical and I don't understand why some are defending the status quo.

I hope that we will look back on all this in ten years time and chuckle about how antiquated and absurd the system was in 2014.

---------- Post added at 12:50 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35741776)
That would eventually force the less successful provider out of the business, leaving just one to charge what it wants, and we'd be back where we started. The current system isn't perfect, but it does allow the consumer choice between a more expensive package with more coverage or a cheaper option with fewer games. That's also a model which allows provider's outlay to be proportionate to its related revenues, something which couldn't be guaranteed if a provider with a smaller number of subscribers was offering effectively the same package as a provider with over ten million.

I have a feeling that the investigation will, rightly, conclude that there is no significant reason to change the status quo, and that that decision will be met with predictable outrage.
Sadly, I have to agree with your conclusion, although I don't believe that anyone will be forced out of business by rectifying the position. It all sounds very fatalistic. Maybe one day we'll see an OFCOM with guts, acting on behalf of the consumer.

andy_m 19-11-2014 20:36
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35741886)
Why should you have to choose between the services when by selecting either major platform you lose out on exclusive programming that you want to see and can only access by choosing both (and paying more for the pleasure)?
I haven't got to do that. If I want all the content I go with Sky and stop paying Virgin. As a result Virgin have to work a bit harder to keep me, which is to my advantage.

The status quo works for an awful lot of people. Your idea of every platform being able to offer all the content would bring lots of unintended consequences that would be to the detriment of the consumer. You've only got to look at the energy industry to see how a small group of companies offering exactly the same product as the other simply hasn't resulted in lower prices or better service. It creates an environment ripe for collusion and price fixing which will ultimately require the kind of government intervention you advocate now. Only now, after a year or two of taking a kicking, are we starting to see them innovate and differentiate in the way that Sky and Virgin have been doing for years.

I don't see the status quo as antiquated, rather I see your position as a backwards step. A strong cable company offering real choice is vital for keeping Sky straight. And vice versa.

passingbat 19-11-2014 22:03
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m (Post 35742022)

The status quo works for an awful lot of people..

I don't think it does. People just put up with it because they know that nothing can be done about it and choose according to which pay TV service best fits their needs, whishing that the parts of the other service that they would like was available to them.

Many people, myself included are dumping traditional pay TV services and are choosing the content that they want via streaming services. That is far from being happy with the status quo in my view.

Lostlam 19-11-2014 22:58
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Interesting developments this week. I hope it forces the PL to show more live matches.

andy_m 20-11-2014 10:40
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35742043)
I don't think it does. People just put up with it because they know that nothing can be done about it and choose according to which pay TV service best fits their needs, whishing that the parts of the other service that they would like was available to them.

Many people, myself included are dumping traditional pay TV services and are choosing the content that they want via streaming services. That is far from being happy with the status quo in my view.
Except that the status quo is that we have a system which allows you to do exactly what you've done. You're not tied in to pay tv, you have a choice, and you've chosen. The status quo is working for you, you're just to pessimistic to see it. You are, in your own words, "choosing the content that (you) want". That is really excellent that you can do that, you should be delighted.

But don't fall in to the trap of thinking that because you don't like something you hold the majority view. Ten million Sky subscribers and 4 million Virgin customers aren't just burying their collective head in the sand and praying for the day when something better will come along! You need to give people some credit.


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