Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

After the fiasco of DeLorean, I can't see the UK government trying to get another car manufacturer to set up in NI. It needs to focus its efforts on retaining its existing car manufacturers and getting battery manufacturers to set up in GB too.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I wouldn't be surprised if they started trumpeting the benefits of the deal for the West Yorkshire deep-sea fishing industry next. Just for information for our southern friends - West Yorkshire is landlocked unless they expect coastal erosion to accelerate in the coming years in which case this maybe one of the 30 year benefits OB was talking about.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Who the hell wants to go to France. It's full of French people FGS.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ited-countries

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Wow, just think, some people actually vote for this idiot.

Here he is in 2017:

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/video/re...103101038.html



---------- Post added at 10:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Here's another gem from the geographically challenged member for Wokingham:

https://twitter.com/johnredwood/stat...04068793409536

Loving the first reply :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Redwood is clearly past his sell-by date. He's like the embarrassing uncle you have to invite for Christmas or he'll be on his own and hope that he doesn't speak!

However, European holidays will likely be getting harder for us this November as this Times article reports.

And for those who may wish to hope the currentl delays are not Brexit-related, please look away now:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...test-l0mtqjfkw

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Tell that to the egg producing industry who are already on the brink and will now have to face tariff free import competition from Mexican cage producers, so much for holding ourselves to greater standards in animal welfare post brexit and nothing reeks of sovereignty more than relying on other countries for your food

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We set the food standards for food imported into the country. It is up to the exporters to meet those standards.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not necessarily. Most international trade deals are based to a greater or lesser extent on mutual recognition of standards rather than agreement of a common standard, or one side adopting the other’s. It’s possible that import of products may be tariff free *if* they comply with UK standards but it’s more likely that the mutual recognition route has been taken.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:rofl:

suppliers are actually passing on rotten meat to supermarkets, are they the standards that have to be met

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You need to believe in Brexit a bit more and that rotten meat will become farm fresh and those brown cod in the sea will become angelfish. It is the fault of non-believers like you who are lowering standards by talking Brexit down.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

And even if supplier import eggs will the public buy them? Will they buy products made from them?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Most people won't know the eggs' country of origin or caged/uncaged status if they buy the eggs as part of another product from a supermarket or restaurant.

---------- Post added at 10:15 ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 ----------

I believe it's unelected civil servants and ministers who made the egg decisions
https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/poul...new-trade-deal

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We should tell the EU that, I think. :erm:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Half of my family now has EU id cards --more to follow. At the French, Italian and Greek borders, we were told to use the ID card to go in & out of the EU countries, instead of the well respected blue passport. We will not be monitored, they said. Probably something to do with the 90 days rule.

The Italian border control guy, said to my son (jokingly) "Asylum seeker?" when he saw the blue passport". They spoke in italian, I do not speak the lingo, but they seemed to take the piss out of the situation.

My son just told me he replied to the control guy "Bunga bunga seeker", bloody children!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Surely not?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65240749

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Never mind us being the sick man of the G7, just feel the GDP increase of 0.08% wafting across the country due to the new deal. Can't feel it? This might be why!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2313359.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Always lovely to see Andrew and Ian [Mod Edit - unnecessary crudity removed - repetition of this language will incur infractions] frothing at the mouth over the potential collapse of the U.K. economy.

Still the IMF are very good aren’t they? So they’re probably right….right?

https://www.ft.com/content/60581224-...f-23cb17fd1498

https://www.reuters.com/breakingview...ed-2022-01-25/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...wrong-economy/

https://twitter.com/samanthataghoy/s...EjG2H-W-Bot21g

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-imf-forecasts/

https://www.bruegel.org/comment/imfs-false-confession

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You actually enjoy being told that the country has been trashed by the Vote Leave Tory Party? Boy, do you need to get out more.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

IMF are Anti-Brexit fools, not to be listened to.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They might be Anti-Brexit but the very common sentiment even from those who supported Brexit is it has been a unmitigated disaster.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Do you imply that the (majority of the?) planet thinks Brexit is stupid, as you call IMF "anti-brexit fools".... Here is the composition of IMF:

https://www.imf.org/en/About/executi...s-voting-power

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Maybe the take is if any message is negative about Brexit, it should not be listened to. I guess that is one approach but it denies reality.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

People like you and Charles Mason of Cluny Lace (below) need to stop being so negative. Believe in Brexit more and the benefits will flow!
https://www.ft.com/content/7d2fa6d1-...f-b2c63b301f1c

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I’m having a hard time trying to be sympathetic with this case. For a start, where’s the concern with the CO2 footprint he’s generating, sending consignments of his own product to France to get dyed and then transporting it back again? Is there literally nowhere anywhere closer to Derbyshire that could do it?

For seconds, Brexit having been on the cards from the date of the referendum in 2016 and having actually occurred 3 years ago, it’s not as if the likelihood of this happening was unknown. I find it difficult to believe someone who has fought so hard to build and maintain his business was suddenly blindsided by the possibility of import/export tariffs …

… especially when, third, he is so hyper-aware of his industry’s flight to the far east and purports to be taking a stand against it. I find his logic somewhat confusing here. Either he thinks the offshoring of industry is a good thing or a bad thing. Or is it only bad when other people do it? Because it looks to me very much as if he wants to off-shore bits of his business whenever it’s convenient.

In reality, sovereign governments use tariff barriers deliberately to discourage the behaviour this business wished to continue post Brexit. That was entirely foreseeable, and is entirely how regaining control of import/export flows is supposed to work. It sounds very much to me as if an awful lot of special pleading has gone on here, and it has spent a lot of time in court or some other appeals process, and the business has just lost. If the writer of the letter really did bet the entire farm on a different outcome then more fool him.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

He was aware of the potential difficulties from Brexit but it seems to be a very specialised trade with little expertise in the UK

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

In 1974 something of the reverse was true, as UK-based sugar refiners relied mostly on cane imported from commonwealth countries (Tate & Lyle were the biggest but not the only). European tariffs on cane imports are designed to protect beet producers located predominantly in northern continental Europe (and mainly the Netherlands).

In terms of its effect on the economy as a whole, the tariffs that hit our domestic sugar production back then were vastly greater than those now affecting what is, as you say, a niche product like French lace made in Derbyshire. It sounds to me as if that business would have become unviable several decades ago had we not entered the Common Market when we did.

Thank you, however, for (eventually) providing some necessary context for a very niche reader’s letter than you earlier seemed to be offering as a far broader comment on our post-Brexit tariff regime.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm struggling to understand why the lace attracts duty when we have a free trade deal with the EU.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Predictions can always be challenged as they've not happened yet.

However, things that have happened like the slump in exports are harder to refute.

https://www.ft.com/content/fd35fe46-...2-8d33226dca0d

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Someone just said Ireland's GDP per person is now twice that of the UK, this can't be right, we were told Ireland would be screwed if we got a bad deal...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Ireland is fine as in EU UK on orherhand is not and NI set for lot more US investment because they in the EU single market


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2318528.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Oh was it only if we got no deal they'd be screwed, bet they're relieved we got one then, imagine what it'd be like for them without one :spin:

Perhaps my memory is fuzzy, I'm riddled with virus after all, I do seem to remember blunder truss saying only three men and a turnip would be effected in Ireland which is ironic as our own "king of turnips" has shut up shop because he can't get anyone to pick them, speaking of turnips who was the brexit bellend on C4 this morning blaming corperation tax for astra zenica opening their new plant in poland?

Remainer polemic you say, yes in that I'm in complete favour of us remaining out of the EU, what don't you like, being reminded of your mate deadwood and his chums comments?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Blunder woman :D

TheDaddy is right to highlight that he was lied to. Unfortunately, these tactics are now proven to work and Labour are copying them in, as we have seen with the slogans about Sunak.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Ireland’s GDP is skewed because it has been running almost like a tax haven to attract large multinationals to set up offices there. Even Eurostat has been known to exclude Ireland when setting out comparative figures.

Ireland’s central bank has published helpful research on how best to understand the country’s economy.

https://www.centralbank.ie/docs/defa...-in-europe.pdf

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

British leg of the Orient Express killed. Who dunnit? Hard Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2...-border-delays

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I’m having a hard time trying to be sympathetic with this case. For a start, where’s the concern with the CO2 footprint they’re generating, sending locomotives, carriages, and passengers all the way to Venice, and then transporting them back again? Is there literally nowhere anywhere closer to London they could go to that has canals, such as Birmingham, the Venice of the Midlands?

For seconds, Brexit having been on the cards from the date of the referendum in 2016 and having actually occurred 3 years ago, it’s not as if the likelihood of this happening was unknown. I find it difficult to believe that a company that has being doing this for over 140 years was suddenly blindsided by the possibility of border controls…

j/k ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I kind of see what you were trying to do there, but … :shrug:

Meanwhile, in the realm of actual facts, Belmond has simply switched the London-Paris leg of the journey to Eurostar, which it was doing for a time during covid and the P&O debacle anyway, and in purely historical terms is actually truer to the way 19th and early 20th century passengers would have used the service. Sure, you no longer get to do the London-south coast leg aboard vintage British rolling stock, but on the plus side you no longer have to transfer to a cross channel ferry via a skanky ‘executive’ coach. And as soon as you arrive in Paris you can start cosplaying Hercule Poirot to your heart’s content.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm not convinced 19th and early 20th century passengers would have had an experience remotely similar to going on a high speed train through the Channel Tunnel. :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Believe it or not, they tried …

https://www.subbrit.org.uk/sites/cha...-1880-attempt/

Fear of it being used by a foreign invader eventually put a stop to it. Plus ca change. ;)

In all seriousness though, the willingness to even try to build something so challenging with the technology available to them in the latter 19th century does rather illustrate my point. The Orient Express was there to get busy people from A to B, it was not a gin palace on rails. The Eurostar connection is in that sense truer to the spirit of the original, even if it doesn’t use vintage rolling stock to get you to where the Orient Express always originally terminated, i.e. France, not London.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/som...ho-went-viral/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm pleased we got there in the end with the Channel Tunnel. They certainly did amazing construction work in the past despite not having today's technology.

Interestingly, back in 1888 Orient Express trains were going from London, so it's not a recent invention. This poster on Wiki even suggests no passports were checked once you were on the Continent!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That was simply a through-ticketing offer, which Belmond will continue to offer, using the Eurostar between London and Paris rather than a vintage train from London to Calais, followed by a ferry and transfer in Calais. The only passenger trains to ever actually cross the channel via ferry did so from 1936-1980 (with a break for WW2) - and these were never part of the Orient Express operation. Initially they were run by a French company before being taken on by British Rail towards the end. The actual Orient Express train, i.e. the physical vehicle comprised of engine and rolling stock, has always terminated in France, either at Paris or Calais.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Far fewer EU laws to be scrapped than planned

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...88ad79d5fdd208

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I see Badenoch was given the task of telling the Brexit hard-liners that they live in the United Kingdom and not the Unicorn Kingdom and reviewing all these laws takes time. She can't be too happy!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I was told it was, we'll scrap all these laws and red tape they said, turns out we'll keep most of them and add to the red tape, what an absolute farce

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Brexit Britain is ploughing her own farrow when it comes to the economy - we were the only G7 economy to shrink last year and we have higher inflation than our EU peers.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The real worry for the Brexiteers is that the shorter the distance between the EU and UK the significant risk of ending up back in the Single Market.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We're certainly putting some distance between ourselves and the EU in economic terms, just not the way round we were promised!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This is inevitable, just on the demographic change alone. It is just the time taken: the longer the delay, the more damage that has to be undone.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We'll have to plough it, no cheap foreign labour anymore, you see that nice man from the Bank of England telling everyone to get used to poorer, I don't recall that as being one of the listed benefits either

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Basic rule of Project/Programme Management - any plan that depends on "hope" is likely to fail…

"hope" is basically "no idea how to fix this, something magic might happen" - abdication of responsibility for actions undertaken without proper evaluation, risk assessment, or mitigation.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There is and never was a "they" in this project. The recently reveals reaction of Johnson in 2016: 'Holy c*** - we've got no plan, what will we do?' sums up the whole disaster.

Plan is a four letter word but it never was part of the Brexit lexicon and so the country slides, chaotically, downwards ...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The project was to win. After that, there was no plan.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The trouble is it's not just you doing the wishful thinking/hoping. It's the government as well!

I think our days of food self sufficiency ended a long time ago and Brexit has merely accelerated that trend.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We aren't going to be food self sufficient, Patrick Minford said farming would have to be sacrificed for brexit and it looks like for once in his life he was right and it's not government that got it wrong it's governments, mrs may, bozo, dim lizzy and the current prime miniature, maybe there's a reason they keep getting it all wrong and maybe it's because what you're hoping for so intensely is unachievable, you could try hoping harder but I suspect the result will be the same

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Me , I blame John Major for all of this !

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Such drama.:D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://media.tenor.com/56Fv6okDSeIA...ook-around.gif

Typical Tory - always someone else’s fault… ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Seems the owners of ARM are reading the Brexit room:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...ck-market-arm/
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-b1078116.html

ARM is a strategic technology in Cloud Based Computing due to it lower power consumption so this is a significant move. Others will be watching ...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The bonfire of EU laws confirmed to be a couple of sparklers and a firecracker instead.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Whingers gonna do what they do best! Wait till someone breaks it to them that unicorns don't exist!
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/stat...24599640883203

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Would be good if we could improve matters here.

https://www.ft.com/content/b0084b3d-...8-f753a6dab1c7

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Suella braverman opened her stupid, incompetent mouth and inane nonsense spouted forth, apparently if immigration isn't cut Britons will forget how to work, that's the contempt they hold this country and its citizens in, next to zero unemployment and we work the longest hours compared to European workers and we'll forget how to work, what work worthy of the name does she do, it wasn't long ago the attorney general described her as fecking useless all I've seen her do is help make this country an international laughing stock, how much scrapping under the barrel did they have to do to find her, someone worse than pritti patel, that's some accolade

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Who are the "wrong sort" you might ask? Who are those that "bring their wrong culture with them, will kill our culture and traditions"?

It's obvious, they are the ethno-nationalist, right wing, Conservative Party Membership :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Bravermans underlying philosophy is that you and the rest of the British workforce are lazy and it's shared by the top echelons of the party, raab, truss, kwarteng and patel said so in their crappy book britannia unchained

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You forgot to mention rivers of blood. From someone who doesn't need to ask you to define the wrong sort because I'd have problems asking you with a straight face. Also, for info you do know our rich culture and traditions are the result of many years of welcoming other races and ways of life and beliefs - and long may it continue.

Out of interest, where did your 40% figure come from?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Her parents were immigrants.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Can we start off by deporting Suella Braverman? We don’t have a shortage of dog whistling white Englishmen in politics. So she’s entirely surplus to requirements by her own benchmark.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think that, if you wait, she is dumb enough to deport herself

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Apparently Farage was on Newsnight last night and said Brexit has failed :(

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

he was and he did now Nigel didn't you say you leave if it failed

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

He did say that Dave but alas he is another of those fork tongue hypocrites.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So true:

https://twitter.com/steverichards14/...72929338372097

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

"If Brexit is a disaster, I will go and live abroad, I'll go and live somewhere else."
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status...595840/video/2

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Careful - the unwoke will be after you…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295

It's incredible what an act of self-sabotage Brexit has been.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It was supposed to be the German car manufacturers making demands was it not?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Don't worry, after trashing the country, if you don't like the them at least you can you can vote them out after 5 years :rolleyes:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Another big issue here is the lack of a plan for infrastructure with local chemical manufacturers and battery manufacturers feeding into local car plants. The EU and US get this and are throwing money at it. The UK is not and the logical consequence is that car manufacturing will migrate away from the UK over time.
Our lack of focus on this important issue is a side product of Brexit as the government has been bogged down with Brexit instead of devising a robust industrial policy.
https://parliamentlive.tv/event/inde...3-9cadf11b8bef

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Another input on this point from ex-Nissan CEO:

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/s...26389585944576

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://techmonitor.ai/government-co...hima-agreement

Great news.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Who needs to hear from experts on this subject when we've got John Redwood, now with extra comedy? :D
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/stat...50850658992129

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The clock is ticking. Business wants an industrial policy, membership of the Single Market whilst a good thing in itself does not an industrial policy make.

I was encouraged by the JLR discussions but we shouldn't really have to wait for the next PM until we get an industrial policy.

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

That's trickier for food as:
a) Rightly or wrongly, energy costs are subsidised less than our competitors' energy costs
b) Farmers have reduced subsidies since we left the EU

As a consequence, farmers are cutting back on their production as more and more of it is sadly loss-making for them.

I suspect many farmers will also be cutting back on their traditional support for the Conservative Party as they find it has become more a party of privilege and privet hedges than corn and cattle.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No this won't do, this is not what we were promised, leave means leave, what bit of that don't you understand.

Also the self sufficiency on food won't be happening either, we were told by both sides farming would have to be sacrificed but it's a price worth paying as smugg said we'll have cheaper clothes, food and footwear from day one

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Seph, this is a really interesting post, You seem to be accepting that the 40+ years of being part of an economic ecosystem cannot be replaced at no cost. The just-in-time manufacturing systems, the location of partner companies, the strategic planning, often years ahead and the cost-based assumptions factoring into the bottom line all bring you to the conclusion you arrive at.

Yes, you can rip out the central nervous system of the economy and try and replace it with an alternative but don't pretend it won't be at a cost and won't be in the short or medium term. Yet this is *exactly* what was promised and why the vote was won by Leave.

I admire your logic ...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I detect a few Bregrets, Seph. Good to see pragmatism coming out on top.

Re: Britain outside the EU