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-   -   Britain outside the EU (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709659)

Chris 01-03-2023 13:24
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
The UK is a unitary state, whose citizens voted on the future relationship between that state and a supranational institution called the EU. Regardless of the UK’s internal construction or history, there was no separate vote in NI or Scotland or anywhere else.

These present separate negotiations have been necessary entirely because of the existence of a separate international treaty, the Belfast Agreement, which mandates an invisible international land border between the UK and the Republic of Ireland. It was drafted without considering the possibility that the UK and Ireland might find themselves on opposite sides of an EU external border, which complicated things somewhat.

Sephiroth 01-03-2023 13:46
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36147182)
It's not difficult: you said NI is in a privileged position and then reinforced this by reminding us that "The NI majority voted to remain in the EU".

I am reminding you that Scotland also voted to remain in the EU but is as unprivileged as the rest of us. Sort of Brexity cake and eat it time :D
What don’t you understand about the difference between NI and Scotland in this context? It’s called the Belfast Agreement which is NI’s free ticket to the privilege of operating in the EU market.


Hugh 01-03-2023 14:22
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Oh, the irony…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-64808694

Quote:
Brexit: Rishi Sunak oversold NI deal, says Lord Frost

The UK's former top Brexit negotiator has said the new deal with the EU will make the Northern Ireland Protocol easier to operate but does not change its fundamentals.

The deal - known as the Windsor Framework - was unveiled on Monday.

Writing in the Daily Telegraph, Lord Frost said the government had been "overclaiming" some parts of the deal.

ianch99 01-03-2023 14:58
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36147188)
What don’t you understand about the difference between NI and Scotland in this context? It’s called the Belfast Agreement which is NI’s free ticket to the privilege of operating in the EU market.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of citing that the NI majority voted to remain in the EU. The UK as a whole left the EU so what the NI majority wanted was ignored, as was the Scottish majority.

So let's drop the "NI majority voted to remain" BS, NI has access to the EU SM because a) it underwrites the Belfast Agreement and b) it is the most advantageous economic model available, as Sunak highlighted.

TL;DR EU SM economic alignment is the best economic model - it's official :D

TheDaddy 01-03-2023 15:12
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36147172)
It’s not so simple as that.
It is so simple as that because we were told that's how simple it would be, repeatedly

1andrew1 02-03-2023 00:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
UK university research faces funding cliff edge as EU support ends

Across the bay from Port Talbot’s steelworks, one of the biggest metal plants in Europe, academics at Swansea University are laying the foundations of Wales’s green economy.

In campus labs, academics are inventing materials that stop steel corrosion to extend the life of machine parts and support sustainable industry. Nearby stands an “Active House” that can generate its own renewable energy.

“We’re not focusing on just short-term goals, we’re thinking about how we can develop capability over a number of years,” said Justin Searle, technology director for Specific, a university project that works with businesses to trial new approaches to green construction.

But these projects — along with more than 150 others in the UK — face imminent closure, as the EU funding that has supported them finally tapers out this month...

In its place, the UK government has set up the £2.6bn shared prosperity fund (SPF). However, it has different funding priorities and university leaders say the substitution has left many projects short.

Once gone, sector leaders say, most of these innovative research projects will not return, hobbling regional development and progress to net zero and skills targets, and leaving the innovation sector with a funding hole.

Paul Boyle, Swansea’s vice-chancellor, said the sector was “on the precipice of a disaster. I couldn’t think of another time when such a significant amount of valuable research and innovation work will be lost.
https://www.ft.com/content/ca6ed436-...4-4f532429e754

Hugh 02-03-2023 18:59
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64823710
Quote:
Boris Johnson has said he will find it "very difficult" to vote for Rishi Sunak's new Brexit deal for Northern Ireland.

The former prime minister said the deal was "not about the UK taking back control".

It is the first time he has commented since Mr Sunak unveiled the Windsor agreement on Monday…

… In a speech in Westminster, the former PM said: "This is the EU graciously unbending to do what we want in our country not by our laws but by theirs.

"I'm going to find it very difficult to vote for something like this myself, as I believe we should have done something different."

The deal would act as a "a drag anchor on divergence" from the EU, he added.

"Brexit is nothing unless we in this country don't do things differently."
https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2l...ized-large.gif

1andrew1 03-03-2023 11:53
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36147116)
Yeah, the Horizon thing is great news. Not taking part in the Horizon program was a disaster for the scientific community
Sunak apparently disagrees.
Quote:
Rishi Sunak holds back on rejoining Horizon after Brexit breakthrough

Senior colleagues said the UK prime minister was “sceptical” about the value of the research programme — the world’s biggest — and the cost of British participation. They added that he would “take stock” of options including the country’s “plan B” global research plan.

While Britain had been expected to contribute £15bn for the full seven-year Horizon programme, three years have already passed and the two sides must now agree how much the UK would have to provide.

Sunak’s hesitancy comes despite calls by UK scientists for Britain to re-enter Horizon, which many see as vital for research, investment and turning the country into a “science superpower”.
https://www.ft.com/content/409bccc7-...4-340d15147c55

Sephiroth 03-03-2023 12:43
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Oh dear - more stupidity.

jonbxx 03-03-2023 12:58
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36147335)
Bugger. The scientific community wants to be part of Horizon, the CBI said that membership was a ‘win-win’ but no. Hopefully, sense will prevail…

Sephiroth 11-03-2023 17:30
Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Interesting article in the Torygraph today that will rankle Ian and other Remainers.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...paign=DM118944

The key points from this paywall site are:

Quote:
The European Union, and its most enthusiastic advocates, have long argued that its power as the world’s largest trade bloc means it is impossible to ignore. Anyone who attempted to stand up to it could simply be swatted aside, and countries might as well sign up to its rules because they would have to follow them anyway. Even worse, any country that left, such as the UK, would find itself an irrelevance on the world stage.
Quote:
Forty years ago, the EU was the largest economic bloc in the world, but now it is in third place behind the US and China, and getting smaller all the time.

And it is a relative industrial failure, too. You can’t hope to regulate technology, for example, when none of the major companies are European. Likewise, while Volkwagen and Renault are trying to compete in electric vehicles, they are nowhere close to Tesla, Ford, or the emerging Chinese competitors such as BYD. Most of Europe has been so poor at creating new companies, or re-inventing old ones, that it is no longer relevant in most major industries.

Add it all up, and there can only be one conclusion. The EU has allowed its position as an economic superpower to slip. As a result, while a country like the UK clearly doesn’t gain any influence by leaving, it doesn’t lose any, either. There is simply nothing to lose.

The EU keeps trying to strut on the world stage, demanding concessions from its major rivals, and threatening reprisals if others fail to listen.

But it is making itself increasingly ridiculous. Joe Biden is courteous whenever he meets the president of the European Commission. But that shouldn't fool us into believing that Washington is taking a great interest in what she has to say.

And we are kidding ourselves if we think that the Biden administration will back down on poaching VW’s battery factories, or any other European assets. The EU's clout is gone – and it is difficult to see how it will claw it back.


Hugh 11-03-2023 19:25
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Here’s an unpaywalled link, for anyone who wants a laugh - it’s an anti-EU diatribe, using hyperbole and emotive language, playing to its audience’s prejudices, from a man whose previous predictions include stating "Apple will sell a few to its fans, but the iPhone won't make a long-term mark on the industry" and " The iPhone is nothing more than a luxury bauble that will appeal to a few gadget freaks. In terms of its impact on the industry, it is less relevant.", and who also predicted 11 years ago that Spain would leave the Euro, and that the Euro would collapse.

I think his best prediction (in 2011) was "Russia is now a stable democracy. There is little chance of it reverting to autocratic rule…

The language used shows it isn’t a serious article, but just a dog-whistle to it’s established audience, saying things like

Anyone who attempted to stand up to it could simply be swatted aside
any country that left, such as the UK, would find itself an irrelevance on the world stage
its attempts to strut on the world stage
every self-important commissioner in Brussels has been lecturing anyone who will listen
A few grandiose proclamations aside
it is making itself increasingly ridiculous

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....ic-superpower/

This section intimates that the EU is saying this because the U.K. left the EU

Quote:
Even worse, any country that left, such as the UK, would find itself an irrelevance on the world stage.
When, in fact, the hyperlink leads to another Kippergraph article discussing a CEBR* viewpoint about Jeremy Hunt’s mini-budget in December last year…

https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https:/...ax-raid-warns/

Quote:
Britain will stagnate on world stage after Jeremy Hunt tax raid, warns CEBR

Long-term damage will derail growth that would have seen UK overtake Germany, consultancy warns

Jeremy Hunt's tax raid will leave Britain stagnating on the world stage, according to new analysis that shows the Chancellor's attack on aspiration will leave the country languishing behind other economies for the next two decades.

The Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) warned that the jump in Britain's tax burden, which is set to climb to a peacetime high in 2024, will inflict long-term damage and derail growth that would have seen the UK overtake Germany.
It’s basically a rant from a Spectator contributor appealing to the rabid anti-EUers - I wonder why Seph recommends it… ;)

* The Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) is an economic consultancy based in London

Sephiroth 11-03-2023 20:30
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36148017)
<SNIP>



It’s basically a rant from a Spectator contributor appealing to the rabid anti-EUers - I wonder why Seph recommends it… ;)

<SNIP>
I recommend the Telegraph article because it rings right to me, particularly because it is angled towards an EU/US comparison.

TheDaddy 11-03-2023 20:40
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148019)
I recommend the Telegraph article because it rings right to me, particularly because it is angled towards an EU/US comparison.
Wonder if it rings right to you because it's what you want to hear

Sephiroth 11-03-2023 21:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36148022)
Wonder if it rings right to you because it's what you want to hear
No you don't. You just want to be contrary. I've told you what interested me in the Telegraph article. And yes, I did manage a smile.

ianch99 12-03-2023 17:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148023)
No you don't. You just want to be contrary. I've told you what interested me in the Telegraph article. And yes, I did manage a smile.
I'm afraid TheDaddy is right. The article is really what you want to hear. These days, there is very little to cheer up the hard-core Leavers so any old fiction will sooth over the pain that reality brings. Oh, nearly forgot, I need to "open my eyes" ;)

Sephiroth 12-03-2023 17:58
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36148104)
I'm afraid TheDaddy is right. The article is really what you want to hear. These days, there is very little to cheer up the hard-core Leavers so any old fiction will sooth over the pain that reality brings. Oh, nearly forgot, I need to "open my eyes" ;)
…… and smell the coffee.

Mad Max 12-03-2023 18:21
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148106)
…… and smell the coffee.

:D:D

ianch99 12-03-2023 18:39
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148106)
…… and smell the coffee.
I do smell my coffee .. it smells of tolerance, compassion and kindness. Must be made abroad :D

Sephiroth 12-03-2023 19:19
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36148112)
I do smell my coffee .. it smells of tolerance, compassion and kindness. Must be made abroad :D
Tolerance for what? Albanian gangsters? Fit young men from the Middle East?

Compassion for what? Economic migrants who have to be housed at the taxpayers' expense? Who have deliberately destroyed their documents so we don't know for sure whether or not they are likely terrorists?

Kindness? Of course.

1andrew1 12-03-2023 22:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
First Tesla, now it's BYD! Brexit prevents another car company from considering investing in the UK. The Brexit benefits keep rolling in...for our competitors!

Quote:
China’s BYD blames Brexit as it rules out UK for Europe car plant

World’s largest seller of electric and hybrid cars sets out plans to dominate region by 2030

The world’s largest seller of electric and hybrid cars has ruled out building its first European car factory in the UK because of Brexit.

China’s BYD has set out ambitious plans to dominate the region’s electric vehicle market this decade, aiming to account for one in 10 battery cars sold by 2030, and wanting to be among the top three EV brands in Europe.

But its European president Michael Shu said the UK did not even make the top 10 possible locations for its first European plant, with a shortlist of sites in Germany, France, Spain, Poland and Hungary.

“As an investor we want a country to be stable. To open a factory . . . is a decision for decades,” he told the Financial Times.

“Without Brexit, maybe. But after Brexit, we don’t understand what happened,” he added. “The UK doesn’t have a very good solution. Even on the long list we didn’t have the UK.”

The group, backed by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway, wants to raise sales to about 800,000 models in Europe by 2030, with at least one car manufacturing facility in the region. It already makes buses in the region.

The UK has struggled to attract investment from new electric vehicle companies, with Tesla also citing Brexit for its decision to bypass Britain in favour of Germany.

Additionally, several established carmakers in the UK are facing crucial decisions over their plants this year.
https://www.ft.com/content/a38acb75-...3-d4e880748986
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...it/ar-AA18wzV7
https://www.theguardian.com/business...f=upstract.com

Paul 12-03-2023 23:13
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Yes, Im sure that was the exact and only reason, and not just a convienient excuse.

1andrew1 12-03-2023 23:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36148146)
Yes, Im sure that was the exact and only reason, and not just a convienient excuse.
Assuming you're being literal then I'm delighted to be able to agree with you.

If not, no worries. Most of my friends who voted Brexit are moving from the denial stage to the acceptance of economic reality stage, although that does not make them Rejoiners by any stretch of the imagination.

Paul 13-03-2023 00:04
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36148150)
Assuming you're being literal then I'm delighted to be able to agree with you.
You know the answer to that already. ;)

1andrew1 13-03-2023 00:08
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36148154)
You know the answer to that already. ;)
I'm sure we'll both end up agreeing in due course. :)

Paul 13-03-2023 03:56
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Yes, eventually you will. :)

1andrew1 13-03-2023 10:03
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36148156)
Yes, eventually you will. :)
If you're able to elaborate on why these two companies are using Brexit as an excuse I'm sure others would love to hear it as well as me.

Basically, I can't see why they would need to mention it as it might deter Brexiters from purchasing their vehicles. Why just not say the UK didn't make it onto the short list and leave it there?

Sephiroth 13-03-2023 10:08
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
What deters me from purchasing an EV is the range and charging infrastructure. There is no Brexit dimension to my thinking on this.


1andrew1 13-03-2023 10:19
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148161)
What deters me from purchasing an EV is the range and charging infrastructure. There is no Brexit dimension to my thinking on this.
Only once you've "yes" to the "Do I go for EV?" debate then you get to decide whether to go for a manufacturer who says they won't manufacture in this country because of Brexit and another one that doesn't say this.

Sephiroth 13-03-2023 11:09
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36148163)
Only once you've "yes" to the "Do I go for EV?" debate then you get to decide whether to go for a manufacturer who says they won't manufacture in this country because of Brexit and another one that doesn't say this.

Don’t give a schmitt, Andrew - price, range and, for now, not French.

Kursk 13-03-2023 16:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36148143)
First Tesla, now it's BYD! Brexit prevents another car company from considering investing in the UK. The Brexit benefits keep rolling in...for our competitors!
Yep, no-one wants to come here except tens of thousands of Europeans in small boats.

Sephiroth 13-03-2023 17:10
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 36148190)
Yep, no-one wants to come here except tens of thousands of Europeans in small boats.

Love it! Ian can turn on you too.


ianch99 13-03-2023 18:32
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148194)

Love it! Ian can turn on you too.

I am sensing a victim complex? ;)

1andrew1 14-03-2023 11:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
UK business groups call on Sunak to rejoin Horizon research scheme

PM urged to move ‘as swiftly as possible’ as fears mount over scientists’ access to projects

UK business groups and executives have urged Rishi Sunak to move “as swiftly as possible” to rejoin the EU’s €95.5bn Horizon Europe research programme, as fears mount that the country’s scientists will be barred from crucial international projects.

In a letter seen by the Financial Times, BusinessLDN and the Northern Powerhouse Partnership called on the prime minister to secure access to Horizon “to ensure the UK remains at the cutting-edge of research and development”.

Their letter marks the latest call from industry groups and executives for ministers to accelerate Britain’s re-entry into Horizon, after the deal between London and Brussels over post-Brexit trade for Northern Ireland opened the door to associate membership.

Ursula von der Leyen, European Commission president, said last month that she was “happy to start immediately . . . work on an association agreement” as a result of the Windsor framework.

Meanwhile in a speech last week, Stephen Phipson, head of Make UK, the manufacturers’ trade association, said Horizon had “always been one of those areas of the EU budget where the UK gets more out than it puts in”.
https://www.ft.com/content/e48ba4d0-...b-edb109296ea4

1andrew1 20-03-2023 14:24
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I see that the DUP will be voting against Sunak's Brexit deal for NI. Funny how they're keen that the electorate's wishes are carried out with regard to Brexit but reluctant when it comes to Sin Fein taking power.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65008991

nashville 20-03-2023 15:47
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36064512)
The flood of illegals across the channel will not reduce but at least it'll be easier to chuck the buggers out.
I agree

Itshim 20-03-2023 18:25
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148161)
What deters me from purchasing an EV is the range and charging infrastructure. There is no Brexit dimension to my thinking on this.

The only person I know that USED to have one went back to gas for this very reason . Looking at my regularly used routes , there is not a hope in hell of me getting one anytime soon , no matter how much I am nagged. :erm:

Damien 22-03-2023 13:53
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Looks like the DUP, ERG, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss will vote against Sunak's deal. As usual nothing to help, nothing constructive, just egoistic politicians looking to grandstand.

It'll pass anyway even if there is a sizable Tory rebellion because Labour will vote for it but really frustrating.

Hugh 22-03-2023 14:14
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36148603)
Looks like the DUP, ERG, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss will vote against Sunak's deal. As usual nothing to help, nothing constructive, just egoistic politicians looking to grandstand.

It'll pass anyway even if there is a sizable Tory rebellion because Labour will vote for it but really frustrating.
I wonder if they’ll lose the Tory Whip?

Meanwhile…

Quote:
Johnson risks being remembered as 'pound shop Nigel Farage' over Brexit rebellion, warns minister
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-joh...eland-12839897

Quote:
Boris Johnson risks being remembered as a "pound shop Nigel Farage" if he votes against Rishi Sunak's new deal for Northern Ireland, a senior Brexiteer has warned.

1andrew1 22-03-2023 14:50
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36148603)
Looks like the DUP, ERG, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss will vote against Sunak's deal. As usual nothing to help, nothing constructive, just egoistic politicians looking to grandstand.

It'll pass anyway even if there is a sizable Tory rebellion because Labour will vote for it but really frustrating.
DUP are doing it to stop Sinn Fein taking it power.
ERG are doing it because they can't accept that there are always trade-offs and that you can have your cake and eat it. They're the crowd who still believe in unicorns and that the EU needs us more than we need them.
Johnson and Truss are just jealous that a vaguely competent PM was able to get a better deal in a month than they could ever get during their stays in power.
The above all just show themselves up for the idiots that they are. Hopefully the country will speak at the next election.

---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36148605)
I wonder if they’ll lose the Tory Whip?
It's not a free vote is it?

TheDaddy 22-03-2023 15:21
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Enjoyed Peter Kyle demolishing John Redwood culminating with there are many people who should be contributing to this debate, he (deadwood) isn't one of them :rofl:

Sephiroth 22-03-2023 15:41
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36148613)
Enjoyed Peter Kyle demolishing John Redwood culminating with there are many people who should be contributing to this debate, he (deadwood) isn't one of them :rofl:
Missed that. On an aeroplane to Singapore.

Damien 22-03-2023 17:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
It passed but with the rebel Tories and abstentions, it looks like it did depend on Labour votes, a bit awkward for Suank but shows he has to deal with a basket case of a party.

Sephiroth 23-03-2023 02:44
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
My position with this is that we have crept forward a few millimetres and a 10cm scale. Better than before but still not there. I would have voted for but would have spoken with some resentment that we’d got into this position in the first place. I would not have agreed to sign the Protocol and if that meant walking away from a deal (and withdrawal payments), so be it.

1andrew1 23-03-2023 10:02
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148639)
My position with this is that we have crept forward a few millimetres and a 10cm scale. Better than before but still not there. I would have voted for but would have spoken with some resentment that we’d got into this position in the first place. I would not have agreed to sign the Protocol and if that meant walking away from a deal (and withdrawal payments), so be it.
Good man. A shame your local MP did not solicit your advices.

Sephiroth 23-03-2023 11:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36148640)
Good man. A shame your local MP did not solicit your advices.
He and I are totally on the same page. But I’m not a senior Tory MP whose activities in the House are coloured by many considerations.

1andrew1 23-03-2023 11:37
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148644)
He and I are totally on the same page. But I’m not a senior Tory MP whose activities in the House are coloured by many considerations.
You might be on the same page but he's reading the no book and you're reading the yes book.

What considerations are clouding his judgment?

Sephiroth 23-03-2023 11:44
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36148646)
You might be on the same page but he's reading the no book and you're reading the yes book.

What considerations are clouding his judgment?

But my heart is in the NO camp.

1andrew1 23-03-2023 12:31
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148650)

But my heart is in the NO camp.
The thing is your brain's in the yes camp. :)

Sephiroth 23-03-2023 23:48
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36148654)
The thing is your brain's in the yes camp. :)
That’s because they’ve introduced a Green Lane. The customs documentation is the same but that should be easy for M&S etc. to automate.

The Stormont Brake is the fun bit. Legal wars to be expected over its applicability, plus Stormont won’t convene so only the UK can exercise that rifgjt on NI’s behalf.

NI is truly in the EU’s clutches and that is Boris’ fault for which he deserves having his nainonicles removed.



Ms NTL 24-03-2023 00:14
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
nainonicles ?

Dave42 27-03-2023 15:47
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Brexit damage as big as Covid, says OBR – predicting five years before incomes recover
UK seeing ‘biggest squeeze on living standards’ on record, says head of fiscal watchdog

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...08178.html?amp

1andrew1 27-03-2023 15:58
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36148809)
Brexit damage as big as Covid, says OBR – predicting five years before incomes recover
UK seeing ‘biggest squeeze on living standards’ on record, says head of fiscal watchdog

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...08178.html?amp
Yeah but blue passports .

Dave42 27-03-2023 16:03
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36148810)
Yeah but blue passports .
remember when it used to be blue passports and fish :LOL:

now since fishing industry damaged only blue passports left

ianch99 27-03-2023 16:07
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36148809)
Brexit damage as big as Covid, says OBR – predicting five years before incomes recover
UK seeing ‘biggest squeeze on living standards’ on record, says head of fiscal watchdog

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...08178.html?amp
It is quite interesting that the Brexit disaster is now being discussed openly by people liked Laura K. More and more, the architects of the project will challenged in the open, and will find it more & more impossible to deny reality. The only people really left with those who are either in denial or who always planned for this. People like Mogg will be seeking to monetise the race to the bottom via his off shored investment firm.

The good example of the race to the bottom is the latest revelation that 100% of UK honey has failed EU authenticity tests: https://www.theguardian.com/food/202...henticity-test

Paul 27-03-2023 16:22
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
So ... false Bees ?

What exactly has that got to do with brexit :confused:

Mad Max 27-03-2023 17:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36148814)
So ... false Bees ?

What exactly has that got to do with brexit :confused:

lmfao :D

Ms NTL 27-03-2023 18:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36148814)
So ... false Bees ?
Yeap, Silver Spoon species...:)

ianch99 27-03-2023 19:20
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36148814)
So ... false Bees ?

What exactly has that got to do with brexit :confused:
Wow, really? You don't get how a third country can water down its food standards and compromise the ability to export food stuffs to the EU?

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms NTL (Post 36148821)
Yeap, Silver Spoon species...:)
Very good. I see what you did there :D

Sephiroth 27-03-2023 22:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36148822)
Wow, really? You don't get how a third country can water down its food standards and compromise the ability to export food stuffs to the EU?SNIP
I'd have thought there was enough for you to go on without coming up with your honey claptrap. You're making a fool of yourself.

The change to the food standards that was made last year related meat imports. However the EU is suffering the same as the French newspaper Le Monde reports:

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environmen...20473_114.html

Quote:
When the bees disappear, honey is not really honey anymore. A massive honey fraud has been revealed by the European Commission. "A significant proportion of honey imported into Europe is suspected of being fraudulent, but this honey is often not detected," said the services of the European executive, in a report published on Thursday, March 23.
Your anti-Brexit vehemence lets you down.

ianch99 27-03-2023 23:45
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148838)
I'd have thought there was enough for you to go on without coming up with your honey claptrap. You're making a fool of yourself.

The change to the food standards that was made last year related meat imports. However the EU is suffering the same as the French newspaper Le Monde reports:

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environmen...20473_114.html



Your anti-Brexit vehemence lets you down.
Not my claptrap I'm afraid. You actually quoted the point I was making :dunce:

Quote:
A significant proportion of honey imported into Europe is suspected of being fraudulent
Yes, they are talking about UK honey. Even the Express is fessing up: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/17...city-test-fail

Quote:
Honey blended and packaged in the UK has been found to fail the EU's standards of authenticity after tests conducted by the European Commission found every single British sample originated from overseas and was mixed with sugar syrup
I guess the truth hurts too much for some.

Sephiroth 28-03-2023 00:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36148844)
Not my claptrap I'm afraid. You actually quoted the point I was making :dunce:



Yes, they are talking about UK honey. Even the Express is fessing up: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/17...city-test-fail



I guess the truth hurts too much for some.
fROM THE VERY ARTICLE:

Quote:
The "fake honey" that has been pinpointed comes mainly from China and Turkey.
I couldn't find the word "UK" in the article. So what are you on about?

ianch99 28-03-2023 00:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148847)
fROM THE VERY ARTICLE:



I couldn't find the word "UK" in the article. So what are you on about?
What don't you understand in the sentence: "Honey blended and packaged in the UK has been found to fail the EU's standards of authenticity"

Sephiroth 28-03-2023 00:56
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36148849)
What don't you understand in the sentence: "Honey blended and packaged in the UK has been found to fail the EU's standards of authenticity"
Maybe the word UK appears after the paywall has been satisfied. But there is a near identical article in Forbes, which I reproduce below in its entirety. And yes - the UK gets a mention - but as a victim in the same way as the EU, discovered by the EU in tested imports. NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RIDICULOUS STATEMENT YOU MADE ABOUT THE WATERING DOWN OF FOOD STANDARDS IN THE UK. The article says that this fraud has been going on for years (as in well before any changes to UK food standards - regarding meat imports - were changed.) Your hatred of Brexit lets you down, sometimes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cecilia...h=382cb0cb68b2

Quote:
Nearly Half Of The Honey In European Markets Is Fake, EU Investigation
Finds
Cecilia Rodriguez, Senior Contributor

Half of the honey imported into the European Union, is suspected of being adulterated with sugar syrups, according to an investigation by European officials published on Thursday.

The research, spearheaded by the European Commission’s Anti-Fraud Office (OLAF) and the Joint Research Centre (JRC), revealed that 46% of the 320 samples of imported honey – taken randomly between November, 2021, and February, 2022 —are part of a massive fraud.

According to the sampling and monitoring work carried out by the Brussels-based body, almost 50% of the honey from non-European countries is cut with sugar syrups made from rice, wheat or sugar beet.

China and Turkey, main honey fakers

Any addition to honey is prohibited by European regulations. With 46% of the samples analyzed being fraudulent, it is safe to say that a significant proportion of the honey consumed in Europe is fake.

“With 175,000 tons of honey imported per year, the Old Continent is the world's second-largest importer of honey after the United States,” writes Le Monde.

Most fake honey is brought from China (74%) and Turkey (14 out of 15). All the 10 honeys entered via the United Kingdom were marked “non-compliant” and mixed with imports from Mexico, Ukraine and Brazil.

“A large part of the honey imported from non-E.U. countries and found suspicious by the JRC of being adulterated remains present and undetected on the E.U. market,” the study found.

The report has confirmed suspicions of consumer groups and Europe’s homegrown beekeepers who have found themselves competing with the influx of low-priced imported honey.

Real bees making real honey — and only about half that real honey makes it to Europoe.

Europe: a sieve for false honey

Considering the number of fraudulent cases, the consumers’ association Foodwatch has described the European market as “a real sieve.”

“Of 123 honey exporters to Europe, 70 are suspected of having adulterated their products, and out of 95 European importers checked, two-thirds are affected by at least one suspect batch,” writes L’Essentiel.

To date, “44 operators in the E.U. have been investigated and seven have been sanctioned,” alerts Olaf. Of the 21 samples taken in France, only 4 were “real honey,” in Germany, which concentrates a third of European imports, half of the 32 samples analyzed were suspect.

Not only sugars

Apart from the main fraudulent addition of sugar syrups, the report also alerts of the presence of additives and colorings and the falsification of traceable information. “Honey naturally contains sugars and, according to EU law, it must remain pure: there can be no water or cheap sugar syrups artificially added to increase the volume,” according to OLAF.

“It is important that we remain vigilant against any abuse,” said Ville Itala, OLAF’s director.“We also found instances of labels claiming false origins of the product.”

“The dishonest practice and practices deceive consumers and disadvantage honest producers in the face of unfair competition.”

Multiple years of fraud

Foodwatch argues that the fact that so much adulterated honey slipped through to consumers showcases weakness in official testing.
“European consumers have been shopping for fraudulent honey in supermarkets for years without knowing about it,” said Ingrid Kragl of Foodwatch. “National control services, but also private laboratories, have failed to detect the fraud because their means are insufficient.”
Europe, U.S. principal buyers

The main buyers of honey produced in the world are Europe and the United States.

The E.U. has some 612,000 beekeepers and 18 million hives producing about 280,000 tons of honey a year, in addition to beeswax, pollen, royal jelly and propolis.

While E.U. experts don’t believe that the adulterated honey presents a danger to human health, the cheap contents create unfair competition for farmers who follow the rules governing purity of the golden gift of bees.


ianch99 28-03-2023 16:10
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148853)
Maybe the word UK appears after the paywall has been satisfied. <snip>
Whatever ... I guess you are too far down the rabbit hole.

Some other examples of food standard degradation, coming soon to a Waitrose near you!

- food made from gene-edited crops
- hormone beef & pork from Australia and soon from Canada & Mexico

and, don't forget, don't drink the water!

Paul 28-03-2023 16:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36148844)
Yes, they are talking about UK honey. Even the Express is fessing up: https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/17...city-test-fail

I guess the truth hurts too much for some.
Again, what "truth" ?

You have completely failed to explain how this is specifically the fault of "brexit".

ianch99 28-03-2023 19:37
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36148887)
Again, what "truth" ?

You have completely failed to explain how this is specifically the fault of "brexit".
I think you have completely failed to understand the point that when in the EU, the products sold into the Single Market have to conform to predefined food quality standards and that, when having left as a third country, that requirement lapses and the third country in question, the UK, has the ability to diverge from the previously mandated standards & safeguards.

Sephiroth 28-03-2023 23:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36148884)
Whatever ... I guess you are too far down the rabbit hole.

Some other examples of food standard degradation, coming soon to a Waitrose near you!

- food made from gene-edited crops
- hormone beef & pork from Australia and soon from Canada & Mexico

and, don't forget, don't drink the water!
You've lost the argument here and are now trying to hide behind other examples of changes ,to food standards.

You were so absolutely sure that the "watered down" UK food standards were the cause of honey exported to the EU from the UK being adulterated.

That's been proved wrong and in your embarrassment and arrogance, you're pivoting on other changes that have nothing to do with the hiney thing on which you were so strident.

However, a separate debate on food standards wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

Chris 28-03-2023 23:34
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36148900)
I think you have completely failed to understand the point that when in the EU, the products sold into the Single Market have to conform to predefined food quality standards and that, when having left as a third country, that requirement lapses and the third country in question, the UK, has the ability to diverge from the previously mandated standards & safeguards.
Given that our ability to set our own standards was one of the benefits of Brexit for many of us who voted for it, I think it’s fair to say this isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.

The whole point of repatriating these powers is that we can decide what works for us and our producers and consumers, rather than the lobbying of major corporate interests that often lurk behind the ‘safety’ decisions taken by the EU. And if we decide HMG has got it wrong, we can vote accordingly. Any vote for an MEP is so hopelessly diluted by the sheer size of the Strasbourg assembly it was never more than a fig leaf for the undemocratic nature of the beast.

ianch99 29-03-2023 00:57
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148903)
You've lost the argument here and are now trying to hide behind other examples of changes ,to food standards.

You were so absolutely sure that the "watered down" UK food standards were the cause of honey exported to the EU from the UK being adulterated.

That's been proved wrong and in your embarrassment and arrogance, you're pivoting on other changes that have nothing to do with the hiney thing on which you were so strident.

However, a separate debate on food standards wouldn't be a bad idea at all.
WTF are you talking about? You have proved nothing. You have totally lost it. The articles I cited stated that 100% of honey imported from the UK is adulterated with cheap sugar syrup, against EU regulations.

From: https://www.theguardian.com/food/202...henticity-test

Quote:
The report last Thursday by the JRC said honey imported from the UK had a suspicion rate of 100% and “this could be the result of honey produced in other countries and further processed in the UK before its re-export to the EU”.
If you literally cannot read then what hope is there trying to explain things to you.

---------- Post added at 23:57 ---------- Previous post was at 23:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36148904)
Given that our ability to set our own standards was one of the benefits of Brexit for many of us who voted for it, I think it’s fair to say this isn’t a bug, it’s a feature.

The whole point of repatriating these powers is that we can decide what works for us and our producers and consumers, rather than the lobbying of major corporate interests that often lurk behind the ‘safety’ decisions taken by the EU. And if we decide HMG has got it wrong, we can vote accordingly. Any vote for an MEP is so hopelessly diluted by the sheer size of the Strasbourg assembly it was never more than a fig leaf for the undemocratic nature of the beast.
Of course, for those who were voting for the pure Brexit where the tenets of faith were to be achieved at any cost, that is all well & good. However that is not what was sold. The goal of deregulation at the expense of the consumer with no retention of standards may be what you desire but the nation was sold the opposite. The nation was sold and promised sunlit uplands. It was not sold 4% loss in GBP, shit in the rivers, loss of NHS staff, and so on, and so on.

Yet when people point out the scale of the con carried out upon the nation, either it isn't happening or it is, but it's fine as this is the religion we now "subscribe" to. Also, yet again, you trot out "oh we can vote them out if we don't like it" BS. We can't "vote out" the damage done to this country, the systemic damage across all sectors and the broken country.

It is the disingenuity that I despise the most. The lack of honesty and the attempt to gaslight people into pretending there is no damage and even if there was, it was clearly pointed out, by Vote leave, as what was going to happen.

Sephiroth 29-03-2023 01:02
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36148908)
WTF are you talking about? You have proved nothing. You have totally lost it. The articles I cited stated that 100% of honey imported from the UK is adulterated with cheap sugar syrup, against EU regulations.

From: https://www.theguardian.com/food/202...henticity-test



If you literally cannot read then what hope is there trying to explain things to you.

---------- Post added at 23:57 ---------- Previous post was at 23:42 ----------



Of course, for those who were voting for the pure Brexit where the tenets of faith were to be achieved at any cost, that is all well & good. However that is not what was sold. The goal of deregulation at the expense of the consumer with no retention of standards may be what you desire but the nation was sold the opposite. The nation was sold and promised sunlit uplands. It was not sold 4% loss in GBP, shit in the rivers, loss of NHS staff, and so on, and so on.

Yet when people point out the scale of the con carried out upon the nation, either it isn't happening or it is, but it's fine as this is the religion we now "subscribe" to. Also, yet again, you trot out "oh we can vote them out if we don't like it" BS. We can't "vote out" the damage done to this country, the systemic damage across all sectors and the broken country.

It is the disingenuity that I despise the most. The lack of honesty and the attempt to gaslight people into pretending there is no damage and even if there was, it was clearly pointed out, by Vote leave, as what was going to happen.
Is the honey exported to the EU from the UK adulterated in the UK?

As for the "con carried out upon the nation", you're talking your usual claptrap.

You're just sore that your darling EU is no longer able to dictate our laws. As I've consistently said, British business will sort things out.

Hugh 29-03-2023 01:32
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148911)
Is the honey exported to the EU from the UK adulterated in the UK?

As for the "con carried out upon the nation", you're talking your usual claptrap.

You're just sore that your darling EU is no longer able to dictate our laws. As I've consistently said, British business will sort things out.
AKA "just believe" and/or "sovereignty…

Sephiroth 29-03-2023 04:26
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36148912)
AKA "just believe" and/or "sovereignty…

Do you think British business will sort it all out?

1andrew1 29-03-2023 09:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148915)

Do you think British business will sort it all out?
Small businesses have sorted it all out by not exporting to the EU. The growth of such companies is constrained compared to their EU counterparts. Their EU counterparts will be well placed to enter the UK market when they've grown in scale. The effect of this will nibble away at the country's GDP.

Meanwhile, the EU is doing well in financial services, science, electric cars and batteries. Evidently, Farage has proved to be Macron's useful idiot.

In terms of what's growing in the UK, it's MPs selling their influence and connections to whoever will cough up. Witness Hancock and Kwarteng's recent £10k a month offer to a fake foreign company. Due diligence, what due diligence?

ianch99 29-03-2023 15:37
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36148911)
Is the honey exported to the EU from the UK adulterated in the UK?

As for the "con carried out upon the nation", you're talking your usual claptrap.

You're just sore that your darling EU is no longer able to dictate our laws. As I've consistently said, British business will sort things out.
Wibble

TheDaddy 30-03-2023 13:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Saw a graphic of a poll in the guardian earlier, think it was done by King's College as part of a world values survey, basically it said we had much more faith in the Europe Union than we did in our own government or parliament, not surprised really, was surprised that it was 39%- 22% though, 22% had faith in our government and slightly less in Parliament, I'd like to make some witty comment about being shocked it's so high but it's quite tragic what's happened to the mother of all parliaments

Hugh 30-03-2023 16:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2310821.html

Quote:
A leading Brexiteer has claimed that politicians in Northern Ireland who accept Rishi Sunak’s post-Brexit deal with the EU would be like Nazi collaborators.

Baroness Kate Hoey made the remarkable claim after an attempt by the DUP to block a key part of the revised Northern Ireland Protocol deal was heavily defeated in the Lords.

Peers rejected by 227 votes to 14 a motion to thwart regulations implementing the so-called Stormont brake, which enables politicians in Belfast to trigger a veto over new EU rules in the region.

Baroness Hoey – an ardent Brexit supporter and former Labour MP – argued politicians returning to Stormont under the “colony” of the EU would be like Nazi collaborators under the Vichy regime in wartime France.

The non-affiliated peer said: "There are people in Northern Ireland, leading politicians, who say, and it’s true, that Northern Ireland has now become a form of colony. The EU’s first kind of colony.”

“If Stormont goes back with the present Windsor Framework, they in fact would be almost like what happened during the war with the Vichy government, where all those MLAs [Members of the Legislative Assembly] would be collaborators with a kind of colonial government.”

TheDaddy 30-03-2023 16:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36148975)
Crap like that is why we have so little faith in our parliament, it's so sad :(

OLD BOY 30-03-2023 17:56
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Just for a bit of balance, a little bit of news you guys would rather not hear.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-b1071111.html

[EXTRACT]

Rishi Sunak said “fantastic progress” has been made in talks on joining an Indo-Pacific free trade bloc, amid expectations that the UK could be welcomed into the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) imminently.

The Prime Minister said it was “a great benefit of Brexit” for the UK to be able to sign its own trade deals.

Hugh 30-03-2023 18:27
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
"Imminently"…

btw, we already have bilateral Free Trade Agreements (FTAs) with nine of the eleven countries (seven were rolled over from the EU agreements), and digital economy agreements with Singapore and Japan.

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/u...ade-agreement/

Quote:
The International Agreements Committee’s report included a summary of the Government’s own modelling of the economic impact of accession. It said that the estimated increase in UK GDP in the long run was 0.08%.
Apparently, the Windsor Framework had an unintended benefit.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....c-bbd661e8b768

Quote:
The closure of the CPTPP deal was assisted by the recent resolution of the row between the UK and EU over customs arrangements for Northern Ireland, British officials confirmed.

In particular, CPTPP members had raised fears that Britain’s threat to rip up the Northern Ireland protocol — now dropped by Sunak — could have set a precedent for future applicant countries to the bloc, notably China.

OLD BOY 30-03-2023 20:32
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
This one is rather different, Hugh, and is a major prize for Britain if we manage to nail it down.

Hugh 30-03-2023 21:02
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36148987)
This one is rather different, Hugh, and is a major prize for Britain if we manage to nail it down.
From my previous link in the post you just replied to...

https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/u...ade-agreement/

Quote:
UK membership of the trans-Pacific trade agreement...

...a summary of the Government’s own modelling of the economic impact of accession. It said that the estimated increase in UK GDP in the long run was 0.08%.
0.08% of current GDP (£2300 billion) is an increase of £1.8 billion per year (in the "long run") - for comparison, the GDP of Wokingham (population 178,000) is £9.4 billion...

OLD BOY 31-03-2023 13:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Well, the government believes that the CPTPP deal will cut tariffs for UK exporters to a group of nations which will have a total GDP of £11 trillion.

The CPTPP is forecast to grow way faster than the EU over the course of the next 30 years, and we were quick to perceive that the EU will be in decline in relative terms.

Joining a bloc like this will also create many opportunities for business, including services, our main source of income. Forecasts will not account for that, of course, because those opportunities have yet to be seized. You cannot quantify the new opportunities that business will identify until that has happened.

ianch99 31-03-2023 14:57
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36149015)
Forecasts will not account for that, of course, because those opportunities have yet to be seized. You cannot quantify the new opportunities that business will identify until that has happened.
Sounds familiar? The faithful still praying for those sunlit uplands ...

denphone 31-03-2023 16:06
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36149022)
Sounds familiar? The faithful still praying for those sunlit uplands ...
Come on we have got Blue passports Ian.;)

ianch99 31-03-2023 16:30
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36149028)
Come on we have got Blue passports Ian.;)
Mine is still an EU, burgundy, one .. one of the last :) Of course, we always could have had blue passports :D

TheDaddy 31-03-2023 18:25
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36149028)
Come on we have got Blue passports Ian.;)
Made in Holland iirc

Hugh 31-03-2023 18:40
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36149036)
Made in Holland iirc
Not any more - they were bought out by the French Thales Group...

The blank passports are made by Thales in Tczew, Poland, but the personal details and photo are printed onto the passport by Thales in Durham.

GrimUpNorth 31-03-2023 20:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36149015)
The CPTPP is forecast to grow way faster than the EU over the course of the next 30 years, and we were quick to perceive that the EU will be in decline in relative terms.
Is that 30 real world years or 30 streaming TV world years?

But being serious, will the forecast growth offset (or even scratch the surface off) the losses we've experienced since leaving the EU?

daveeb 31-03-2023 21:14
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36149044)
Is that 30 real world years or 30 streaming TV world years?

But being serious, will the forecast growth offset (or even scratch the surface off) the losses we've experienced since leaving the EU?
What a gloomster, have faith, we've already recouped 0.08% with the Asia deal. Halcyon days to come with suntans galore on the glorious uplands :rolleyes:

Hugh 31-03-2023 22:39
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 36149046)
What a gloomster, have faith, we've already recouped 0.08% with the Asia deal. Halcyon days to come with suntans galore on the glorious uplands :rolleyes:
We’re going to potentially recoup 0.08% in around 10 years…

daveeb 31-03-2023 22:43
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36149047)
We’re going to potentially recoup 0.08% in around 10 years…
Even better, not the 50 years as advised by the ex Brexit Opportunitiies minister. That's what I call progress :erm:

Sephiroth 31-03-2023 23:39
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
I see all the Remainers piling in on OB. Not one of them has said that the opportunity raised by every trade deal now lies in the hands of British business.

Badenoch sent me an email which sort of makes my point:

Quote:
After 21 months of negotiations, we have just signed our biggest trade deal since leaving the EU – becoming the first European country to join the most dynamic trading bloc in the world, now worth £11 trillion.

With 500 million people, tariff free trade with CPTPP countries will boost our economy by billions, support thousands of new British jobs, and drive economic growth in all corners of our United Kingdom.

From beverage producers in Scotland, to machinery manufacturers in Wales and car manufacturers in Northern Ireland, businesses across the country will benefit from free trade with 11 dynamic countries expected to make up the majority of global growth in the future.

Despite the naysayers, we are delivering on the benefits of Brexit. Labour and their social media supporters will try and talk this deal down and claim it isn’t of real benefit.

This is their usual declinism. Only the Conservatives have confidence in the UK and understand what the vision of a global modern Britain would mean. We will create new opportunities for British business.


OLD BOY 01-04-2023 00:05
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36149047)
We’re going to potentially recoup 0.08% in around 10 years…
That’s from existing business. This deal is about opportunity.

1andrew1 01-04-2023 00:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36149052)
I see all the Remainers piling in on OB. Not one of them has said that the opportunity raised by every trade deal now lies in the hands of British business.

Badenoch sent me an email which sort of makes my point:
Car manufacturers in Northern Ireland? :confused: I know that we need to believe more and if we do so, economic laws, transport costs and time zone differences will disappear overnight.

But I never expected we would have to believe that De Lorean was still in business to avoid being accused of the charge of declinism! :D

Sephiroth 01-04-2023 00:41
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Provided that the Guvmin helps with the investment, making cars in NI gives us double bubble market opportunity.

1andrew1 01-04-2023 01:17
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36149058)
Provided that the Guvmin helps with the investment, making cars in NI gives us double bubble market opportunity.
The muppet's displayed his ignorance about the UK economy I'm afraid Seph.

Meanwhile, a great opportunity has opened up for British holidaymakers to get acquainted with one another and to develop their fasting skills in the queues into France as Dover declares a "critical incident".

https://news.sky.com/story/port-of-d...elays-12846826

Hugh 01-04-2023 11:20
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36149053)
That’s from existing business. This deal is about opportunity.
"opportunity" that’s between 3000 and 10000 miles away, with countries we mostly had existing trade agreements with…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1680341706

I see "opportunity" has become the new "sovereignty"… ;)

denphone 01-04-2023 11:54
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Its like swapping a mansion for a garden shed.;)

Hugh 01-04-2023 12:21
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36149052)
I see all the Remainers piling in on OB. Not one of them has said that the opportunity raised by every trade deal now lies in the hands of British business.

Badenoch sent me an email which sort of makes my point:

Quote:
After 21 months of negotiations, we have just signed our biggest trade deal since leaving the EU – becoming the first European country to join the most dynamic trading bloc in the world, now worth £11 trillion.

With 500 million people, tariff free trade with CPTPP countries will boost our economy by billions, support thousands of new British jobs, and drive economic growth in all corners of our United Kingdom.

From beverage producers in Scotland, to machinery manufacturers in Wales and car manufacturers in Northern Ireland, businesses across the country will benefit from free trade with 11 dynamic countries expected to make up the majority of global growth in the future.

Despite the naysayers, we are delivering on the benefits of Brexit. Labour and their social media supporters will try and talk this deal down and claim it isn’t of real benefit.

This is their usual declinism. Only the Conservatives have confidence in the UK and understand what the vision of a global modern Britain would mean. We will create new opportunities for British business.

Seph, she may have been economical with the actualité with regards to "car manufacturers in Northern Ireland"...

There appears to be only one (Crossle Car Company) which made Formula Ford and Formula 2 track cars (at it's peak in the 70s, it made 100 that year). I say "appears", as the company was taken over in 2012, and on it's web home page it states

Quote:
Welcome to the home of The Crosslé Car Company
Established in 1957, Crosslé is the world’s longest-established constructors of racing cars. Uniquely we continue to build cars, and support their ongoing success worldwide, from our original factory in Holywood, Northern Ireland.

From November 2012 this site will be updated to more effectively engage Crosslé customers old and new. Comments and suggestions are welcome, and you can contact us at the factory.
There have been no updates after this post/date, but looking on their Facebook page (there are one or two updates per year), it appears to be mainly focused on maintaining/refurbishing previous track cars they manufactured in the past.

https://www.facebook.com/people/The-...0063552693792/

Other than that, not much car manufacturing happen in Norn Iron...

(and it costs between £2 billion and £10 billion to set up a new (large scale) car manufacturing plant - I can't see HMG funding that...)


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