Re: Coronavirus
 

The Pfizer results on the trial which has led up to jfman's link can be seen Here.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wasn't it 49% for Pfizer; 38% for AZ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Excellent news! My youngest who hates injections might not be so pleased :D

She used to try and get out of vaccinations but she doesn't even try any more - we won that one!

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't think I will be in any rush to have my two boys vaccinated but no doubt it will be forced on upon them if we want to go on holiday.

There is no reason to have under 18's (you could probably go as far as under 30) vaccinated.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unless you want to reduce the chance of them spreading the virus if they are one of the one in three that is asymptomatic when they get it.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n723 ]

Re: Coronavirus
 

But if everyone that needs to be is vaccinated, and many, many more will have had it, so what. Their immune systems can take care of it.

"could" be justified is not the same as "required"

Also variants/ mutations are not always more deadly, it may evolve to be less lethal. Not that it's that lethal at the moment.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As Hugh said, good old herd immunity and the fact that no vaccine is 100% effective are good reasons to get as many people vaccinated as possible. The young may not need the protection the vaccine gives but vaccinating the young will protect others.

I would feel much more comfortable if my kids were vaccinated before visiting their Gran/my mum even though she's had her jabs

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well that's fine.

I won't be having mine done unless I'm forced to by stealth.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lockdown lovers might enjoy the prospect of hovering below the herd immunity threshold and ongoing restrictions.

I however don’t. Mandate it for teenagers especially as they’ll start clogging up university halls in major towns and cities. To not mandate it, or withhold it, despite the evidence proving it safe and effective is good news for the anti-vax brigade.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Have your kids had the MMR jabs?

If so, what’s the difference?

(Genuinely curious, not trying to have a go).

Re: Coronavirus
 

You can't "mandate" it, you can strongly advise it.

It's either the decision of the parent or the decision of the person.

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 18:03 ----------

I know you're not.

Yes they had MMR and everything else. So did I when I was a kid including the polio sugar cube.

They are very different illnesses than COVID

Getting one of the MMR illnesses as a child, especially, a very young child can cause serious complications.

There is no evidence that COVID causes any issues for Children (that don't have other complications)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well whatever the strongest requirement is. Incentivise it as you say through mandating testing as much as possible (airports) at an individuals expense. Covid passports for popular venues and events the age group would participate in.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The whole point of healthy people getting vaccinated is to protect those whose immune systems cannot cope either with catching covid or with the actual vaccine..The idea is to try and protect the particularly vulnerable so why wouldn't a relatively healthy adult not get vaccinated if only to protect other vulnerable members of family or community?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Heaven forbid a Government policy values the collective over the individual.

I think the fact Pierre is willing to sell up his principles on vaccinating children for saving money on a family holiday is telling. Two PCR tests at my cost? No thanks.

Government should absolutely crush the will of those resisting by increasing the inconvenience and financial cost. It’s so easy.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You mean by making vaccination a condition of getting a passport or making you pay for insurance to cover the cost to the state if you subsequently required NHS treatment which could have reasonably been avoided by being vaccinated?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Are they not getting vaccinated then?

---------- Post added at 22:38 ---------- Previous post was at 22:36 ----------

The public should be “crushed” , free will abolished, and freedom only when approved and allowed by the state.

Yours sincerely JFMarx.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There’s lower hanging fruit than that.

Any testing requirement adding £160 per child per holiday suddenly finds capitalists keen to avoid the cost.

Leveraging the system is easy without necessarily making it an absolute condition. Those with a principled stand suddenly will sell out for a couple of nights in a three star hotel in Benidorm.

---------- Post added at 22:42 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------

I know you’re obviously content to risk further lockdown, and huge economic costs resulting from failure of the vaccination programme, and letting the virus run rife in schools and further education institutions.

However, I absolutely disagree.

The irony is you call others “lockdown lovers” and when offered a way out resist, unless you can save money on a holiday of course.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why not? You're giving the virus more opportunities to spread and thereby slow down the ending of restrictions.

Re: Coronavirus
 

no evidence of that no evidence of any failure. no evidence again.

fine

The way out is already mapped without the need to vaccinate children.

---------- Post added at 23:03 ---------- Previous post was at 23:00 ----------

Only the illiterate would not have read and understood my point of view.

I look forward to reading your paper.

Re: Coronavirus
 

On the contrary Pierre.

Anyone can read your posts - no need for restrictions, no need for vaccination as to those you deem 'safe' (notably, safe isn't scientifically defined).

That in itself always brings us back to the same risk - overwhelming the limited capacity of NHS resource. As you well know, I've told you often enough.

The way out isn't mapped at all - there's an aspirational document that will absolutely be overturned if and when the ignorant decide rules no longer apply to them when they should. Or, en masse they no longer need to be vaccinated.

If you want this to be the schools going back argument again as a comfort that you are right I'm more than happy to watch you follow the deluded path as you did in January.

There's always been two ways out - elimination through lockdown. Elimination through vaccination.

There is no 'living with the virus'.

I've always believed you've engaged with this debate sincerely. But without either path lockdown continues to be absolutely inevitable as much as it is absolutely avoidable.

As long as we keep pushing up the price of bang average family package holidays though with PCR tests I think we should we good.

Lockdown lovers of course thrive in this uncertainty because that is the only absolute certainty.

Re: Coronavirus
 

go on then .

so those, in your head, deemed not to be needed to be vaccinated, must be vaccinated.

Yes, Herr Mengele. Bring in the next subject

oh you can “tell me” (you can’t tell me anything) the nhs is not, and has not been, under stress for a long time.

you are absolutely correct, it will not. We agree.

Mao would be so proud.

Yes, the best way to beat this is to prevent the poorer people in society to have a holiday. If we just let the privileged go on holiday we’ll save our granny.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pierre I urge you to retract the bit you've thrown there in the middle that you've absolutely made up but thrown into quotations regardless to present it as if I've said it.

I thought you were better than that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I will happily and respectfully retract anything that you feel I have misrepresented on your behalf. I am not here to cause upset.

That said, I haven’t put in quotations anything you haven’t posted.

Re: Coronavirus
 

tbf, comparing someone to Josef Mengele (the Angel of Death), who performed deadly experiments on prisoners, and was a member of the team of doctors who selected victims to be killed in the gas chambers, with someone who has suggested that teenagers have a covid vaccine, could be seen as ‘over the top’.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Where did you manufacture this one?

It doesn't sound like something I'd say. Especially as one of the biggest sceptics of the AZ vaccine on the board in terms of it's ability to reach HIT.

---------- Post added at 00:43 ---------- Previous post was at 00:38 ----------

In fairness Pierre has proven himself one tier above an anti-vaxxer.

Ironic really, as they are the true lockdown lovers.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's simple for me, it'll either disappear or it'll evolve into something entirely new that isn't covid 19 and that thing will either be more or less potent than the virus we have now, after the sacrifices we've all made why role the dice and give it the chance to evolve, we were in a race against the virus and now it's almost won we're going to let selfish people who are so conceited they think they know better than the experts that have almost dragged us out of this mess put us right back to square one, well imo if we let them then it's only right these people are as inconvenienced as much as possible for that privilege

Re: Coronavirus
 

I am not in the business of manufacturing quotes.

As seen as it appears you edited your original post I can only assume you removed that passage of text? Post me quoting it.

---------- Post added at 07:00 ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 ----------

If the cap fits.

---------- Post added at 07:36 ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 ----------

I’m so anti-vax I’ve had both the flu jab and Covid jab in recent months.

We don’t give kids the flu jab ( and I’m not say Covid is the flu) but 10’s of thousands of people die from the flu most years? Why don’t we vaccinate everybody against the flu, why don’t we go for zero flu?

The pressure the winter flu wave regularly puts on the NHS could be stopped if we vaccinated everybody every year against the flu.

I’m just not in favour of unnecessary vaccinations, it is known that even “safe” vaccines carry risk. There is no need to vaccinate a child against something that doesn’t make it ill.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You’ve 100% pulled that quote from nowhere.

Now we are onto “safe” vaccines. Slippery slope Pierre but I suppose we should have seen it coming. And a flu comparison to entertain us some more.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm sure the families of the handful of under 18's who have lost their lives to something that doesn't make children I'll will be the first to agree with you. I'm afraid you've got a very selfish attitude and prey it doesn't come back to bite you. I wouldn't know how I'd cope if something happened to our daughter (even now in her 30's) especially if there was something I could have done to try and prevent it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pierre loves lockdown that much he’s disagreed with every viable way out.

Re: Coronavirus
 

At the moment we're not even vaccinating children against COVID. They're still testing the vaccine for children and then will make a more cautious risk assessment when it comes time to make the decision. Children are already being considered a different case when it comes to this vaccine because the virus doesn't really seem to hurt them. The vaccine will therefore only be used if they decide it's still safer to have the vaccine than to have COVID.

They won't recommend children get the vaccine if the vaccine poses a small but still higher risk than COVID irrespective of the public health benefits.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Technically true, all children up to the age of 12 (year 7) get flu vaccinations through nasal spray so no jabs but they do get vaccinated. Older kids with underlying health conditions get vaccinated too - https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccin...d-flu-vaccine/

Re: Coronavirus
 

Cases of Kawasaki (mucocutaneous lymph node syndrome) in under-5s have surged. The trigger is pulmonary lung virus infections like covid-19 SARS2. There is also a variant of Kawasaki being found that attacks the gut, not the lungs.

Hospitals have been prewarned of a surge of admittances, as it usually requires hospital treatment.

1,300 kids dead from it in Brazil.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But they're not Pierre's kids so hey ho :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I really don't think that Pierre wouldn't care about children being killed by a disease, a wee bit unfair IMO.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well he does claim it's something that doesn't make children ill, so we'll have to disagree on the fairness or otherwise of my comments.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What do you want me do about it?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Totally unfair imo, you don't even know the guy.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not post that "it doesn't make children ill" will do

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pierre loves a good lockdown.

Pretending that children can't carry the virus and don't get ill is an easy way to make sure we don't hit the herd immunity threshold and ensure ongoing mutations.

Wait til he finds out that Europe will hit the herd immunity threshold first due to a higher efficacy vaccine. Could be a tagline for vaccinating kids "vaccinate your sprogs for Brexit".

Re: Coronavirus
 

No you're right I don't the guy, but I do know he's spouting at best stupid/selfish and at worst dangerous statements. I hope he hasn't managed to suck you in, I thought you were better than that!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ultimately denial of the impact children have is the last safe haven of the anti-lockdown, anti-mask brigade. They're hoping that previous misinformation around the MMR vaccine tugs on the heart strings.

I do wonder who finances this kind of information and their interests in stalling our recovery. As Jacob Rees-Moggs investment firm noted Covid 19 presented the kind of opportunity that only arises once in a generation. A false dawn and more lockdowns gives further opportunities to cash in.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Does it? show me the morbidity rate of of this illness in children in relation to other illnesses and if there is an obvious and clear reason to be concerned, I will absolutely say so.

---------- Post added at 23:21 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------

It’s funny, but I wouldn’t open with it.

children, I’m sure, do the carry the virus but all evidence indicates that they don’t get ill. You’re more than welcome to post all the available evidence that contradicts that.

I don’t know what that means? Europe has a better vaccine than anyone else? Which one is that then? Or have you been drinking again?

---------- Post added at 23:22 ---------- Previous post was at 23:21 ----------


Like?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah Pierre with pathetic insults and nothing worthwhile to say.

Considering how much you dislike home schooling I'd have thought you'd be first to suggest kids get vaccinated. Plenty of ONS data shows schools drive infections upwards but then again you don't trust the data do you

Maybe you and Mrs Pierre can kick off the September term to be on the safe side.

All the qualities of the conspiracy theorist. Even selective quotations.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, if you can read, you’ll find my issue is on the impact “to” children, not “from” children. You can read?

you will also have read....that both my kids have had MMR, I have been vaccinated for flu and Covid. I am not anti-vax. Which I’m sure you know destroys your narrative, but I understand you need to push it anyway because you’ve got nothing else.

Re: Coronavirus
 

In a pandemic I don't care for the distinction.

Nothing you ever claim will destroy any narrative of mine. I can always point to your conviction that the UK Government wouldn't send kids into school I. January to change their mind on day 2. Which I told you was absolutely inevitable.

I'm not even sure what my narrative is let alone how you could possibly, coherently, having been proven wrong on a multitude of occasions, claim to "destroy" it.

I'm pointing to plain facts - kids will get vaccinated. It's an absolute inevitability. However your denial of facts is the one consistent aspect of your input into this thread.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No , no - funny insults, that are infinitely more entertaining and interesting than any thing you post

Yes, but again you’re not “reading” or possibly just understanding what I’ve been saying, consistently. Kids may transmit the virus but they, very much mostly, do not get sick from it. So as long those who do sick from it are vaccinated, there is no reason to vaccinate kids. A pretty simple point that even you, probably now on your 8th can of Tenants extra, can understand.

Re: Coronavirus
 

More selective quotations, more irrelevant nonsense.

It doesn't surprise me that you can't address any of the points in a substantive manner.

The fact you consistently talk the same nonsense is no more noble than the shotgun approach Old Boy takes to be honest. It's a global health crisis we either aspire to resolve or not. You're so principled you'll sell out for a few hundred quid off the family holiday.

You've chosen your side - to not resolve it. You really cannot complain as restrictions, and possibly lockdowns, prevail once Boris is past the May elections.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well it’s not all about you, unfortunately as a society we can only move as fast as the slowest person.........which appears to be you.

finally..........we’ve all known this for a long time. Admitting to yourself what your issues are is the first step to healing.

I’m sure they will, it depends if par3nts are given the choice or dictated to by steady. I said straight off, I won’t vaccinate my kids, but if i have to, to go to Dubai in October then so be it.

But I think it would be unnecessary, it wouldn’t be on health grounds, and it would basically be coercion by the state or other states.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Another post of selective quotes because you cannot address the point. It's embarrassing to see.

At least a Dubai holiday is the price of your principles and not Benidorm I suppose. God bless capitalism - the easiest way to control the prolateriat is by their pocket.

Re: Coronavirus
 

nope, I’m not aware of discounts available but if you know of some send them through and I’ll have a look.

I’m also not principled. I said in my very first post on the subject and reiterated several times, that if I had to vaccinate the kids for foreign I, reluctantly, would. I don’t think it’s necessary or right, but if that’s the rules say be it. My point is that there is no evidence that , that should be a requirement.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm struggling to read that as a coherent sentence to be honest, and you accuse me of being on the booze!

???

Evidence has been there to slap you over the face with inevitability before so I'm not sure your benchmark of Covid denial serves wider public health.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Another post that wasn’t worth posting. You’re the gift that fails to give, every time.

Well, proletariat aside, I’m just looking at places to go in October. Benidorm as nice as I’m sure it is, in October won’t be as good.

I could easily swap Dubai for Tenerife (or another Canary Island), or Gambia. I didn’t go Far East as I don’t want a long flight.

So you see my decisions are purely weather and flight time based. Does that not fit with your Marxist ideology?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lovely tourist ideas, little coherent thought as to dealing with Coronavirus. Unsurprising.

I'll stick to TripAdvisor for tourism.

Re: Coronavir
 

Point taken, One finger typing with auto correct has never been a skill I’ve possessed.

I have corrected the statement below

I’ve never been a Covid denier.

---------- Post added at 00:14 ---------- Previous post was at 00:13 ----------

You’re missing out.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I've no interest in your ability to go back and produce a coherent sentence upon being challenged to do so.

It's telling that it appears to be your strongest point in the debate. Well, above naming tourist locations you'd vaccinate your kids to go to.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If I genuinely felt strongly about not having my children vaccinated, giving up foreign holidays would be a price I'd be willing to pay.

However, if I didn't and just wanted to sound controversial on an internet forum then my so called vaccination principles would be out the window and running down the road the moment it got in the way of a couple of weeks fun in the sun - because after all, why should I let MY children stop ME from having MY holiday.

Don't know why but I'm typing this and a French sounding name keeps drifting through my mind :confused::confused:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Jean Michel Jarre, Oxygene Pt IV ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

It was probably a Kellogg's advert on the TV

Re: Coronavirus
 

We have cautiously booked our first big work meeting for the end of September - the first time I have seen my boss in real life in 18 months as he is based in Germany.

Never thought I would miss work travel but I am really looking forward to this one!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which country is your meeting being held in? The UK?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Probably Germany at this point with an outside chance of Sweden instead. Either works for me, I like both!

Re: Coronavirus
 

For information, if you use the NHS App, your COVID inoculations are now recorded on there.

Home Screen, then chose "View your GP health record", then select "Immunisations", and this comes up.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1620205786

Re: Coronavirus
 

Only of your GP allows it. Mine shows diddly squat....

Re: Coronavirus
 

It should be recorded on your online GP account (if you have one). Not sure how the necessary paperwork gets to you once you've had jab 2, I'm guessing you have to natter your GP ??

Re: Coronavirus
 

GP can't refuse this - you have a legal right.

From the App.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1620213177

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1620213177

Re: Coronavirus
 

My inoculation info went on without any paperwork (from me).

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think that app only applies to England, Hugh.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I've never used or registered on the NHS app.

But I have the card they give you when you are immunised

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes so did mine, I meant a confirmation document sent to the recipient stating the innoculations had been done.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Probably - Mr K lives here too.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But not a legal right to get it through the app, I'm guessing. I've just spent 10 minutes setting up the app only to find "You do not currently have online access to your medical record. Contact your GP surgery for more information".

I wasn't given a vaccination card, either.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The default seems to be you don't get access unless you request it from your GP. I've now asked, so we'll see.

I did get a card with my first jab, but they don't look unforgeable (!)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Mine works but not filled with confidence as some of the dates for previous vaccinations seem to be wrong and one is completely missing (Hepatitis booster shot)

Re: Coronavirus
 

No "immunization" section for me, either on the app or via web access. The "Childhood Vaccinations" section only refers to presumed dates based upon age, eg MMR is listed before the vaccine itself existed, and before I caught both Measles and Mumps.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Strange - my "Immunisations" section has all mine from 1993

Re: Coronavirus
 

It does say in the app 'depending on what your GP shares'. So looks like they might all do their own thing - very joined up !

Re: Coronavirus
 

Interesting!
Google the headline or subscribers can visit https://www.ft.com/content/eca86f43-...d-3cc8d652805e

Re: Coronavirus
 

I presume is the same as the main online access system, which I can access via systmonline - Ive had access for 2/3 years now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Third Covid jab for over 50's before winter:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...nter-jhpj57g0d

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hasn't systmoline now been replaced by the Airmid UK app (which is the system my GP uses)? I think I read the NHS app is also developed by TPP, but it doesn't appear to be a rebrand of the same app. Pretty confusing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A bit late for the Times with that news, that was the point of the order for 60 million further doses from Pfitzer a couple of weeks ago.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I have no idea about apps, dont have a smart phone.
I was referring to the online [web] system, which is still fully operational.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's beginning to sound like that we might be able to hug family from the 17th of May, but friends will have to wait until June.

This will be excellent news for me as my sister is 50 on 27th May, and a much-needed hug is in order.

She is very low at the moment and has problems that she would normally speak to our mum about.

She doesn't want to tell our dad as she doesn't want to worry him, she said on Saturday I can pop over Monday afternoon if I wanted. I might be wrong, but I read it as she wants to talk to me, so I will go and say she can talk to me as much as she feels comfortable.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Its the same system l use and have been using for quite a while now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-05-07/...foreign-travel

Re: Coronavirus
 

For those contemplating overseas holidays, I found this piece from Simon Calder, an expert on the subject, encouraging. In particular:
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-b1843783.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wouldn't go near an airport this year.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Avoid perfidious Wales , Scotland, Ireland, rest of the EU too ?

Bognor's a nice place to wave your flag of St. George. Take a brolly...:cool:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Eurostar, LNER and Stena Line will happily take your hard-earned cash instead. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'll add to my non-trip to the airport by saying I won't be going abroad this year, Andrew.:)

Re: Coronavirus
 

2 features have been added, which maybe because the GP has changed things. Recent test results and "Consultations and events", all 346 of them! Not sure people need to know every time "Additional SCR dataset uploaded under COPI regulations".

Looking further into the 346 "Consultations and events", my 1st covid jab is listed there and in the "Systmonline" web system.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’ve had those for at least a year on my App.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But according to your post #4964, this Covid jab is meant to be listed under immunisations, and is not there under "Medicines->Acute(short term) medicines" either.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s not "meant to be", it is…

It also appears under "Consultations and Events" as

and under ‘Immunisations" as even though I had it at a local hotel.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The picture you included was of the "Immunisations" section. To find my own entry, I had to wade through all the other fairly meaningless entries in the "Consultations and Events" section. There doesn't seem to be a consistent place for any entry, eg in a press report it was under somebody's "Acute(short term) medicine section. That's 3 separate places people will have to look.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Have you contacted them about it?

On the App, there is a section, in the "NHS App help and support", under the "Managing your account", titled "Contact the NHS App team", you can send them a message about it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Covid ZERO! England reports no new coronavirus deaths for first time in 14 months


https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-area-breaking