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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Stop using your BB. :D
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...20-01-2015.png Evening peak is us streaming HD TV, Morning peak is me running torrents. Both will increase the latency. |
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why would they change? |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
What sort of speeds are you getting in the evening peak then Tony? My 50Mb is currently only getting anything between 5-12Mb/s at peak times since a few weeks, but the graph is nowhere near that bad.
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(Since I have Samknows then I have a relatively accurate and consistent benchmark to compare against) |
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1) DOCSIS upstream is TDMA which is more prone to latency caused by utilisation - there are 2 contention points at play, contending to send your request for a grant and then waiting for the grant time to actually transmit the data. 2) DOCSIS allows large traffic bursts to request more bandwidth as part of a data burst so favours continuous large amounts of upstream traffic over small bursts such as a response to a TBB ping. Downstream uses a scheduler at the CMTS. The pipe has to max out, with interest, in order to increase latency substantially. |
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At peak times my download drops to 50% (50Mb/s from 100Ms/s) but the peak latency on the graph does not increase significantly (outside of the test window). If my download packets cannot be scheduled at the required rate to achieve 100Mb/s and are buffered in the CMTS then surely ICMP packet would be delayed too? Also, the TBB speed test during peak hours shows a big drop in the x1 speed even before the x6 rate gets reduced. This x1 rate always starts high (close to 100Mb/s) and drops back to 20M/s or so. To my mind this suggest some packet priority scheme on the downstream based on how close together packets are received by the CMTS for a particular CPE. So if you're gaming with infrequent bursts these get scheduled immediately but if you are downloading the packets get delayed. This is my speed test at ~11am https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/02/15.png Ian |
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'...an ill-behaved flow (who has sent larger packets or more packets per second than the others since it became active) will only punish itself and not other sessions' which is kind of what I described (in a less technical way). Do the Virgin CMTS really implement that? On the upstream too? Ian |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Downstream it works that way, upstream doesn't use the DOCSIS scheduler it uses TDMA.
See my earlier post - http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35...-post4910.html |
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Thinking about the downstream, this definitely seems to explains why the TBB graph can look quite good even though download speeds have dropped significantly due to congestion; infrequent ICMPs being scheduled in advance of download packets for other CPEs. I would have thought this constitutes a form of traffic management / priority scheme? Ian |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
The scheduler isn't a traffic management scheme, it doesn't really have any intelligence to speak of.
I was, perhaps, overly kind when I described the scheduler as being WFQ. It doesn't have the smarts to 'selectively' slow heavy bandwidth flows, it's more that it shares bandwidth between flows and the way it empties buffers. Essentially smaller packets, such as pings, get through more quickly than larger ones, such as a standard download. On the upstream you can, certainly, prefer certain traffic, indeed it's needed as part of voice services, however it's of questionable value and is more inefficient in terms of usage of the resource to prefer pings or whatever over normal traffic. This will be useful in DOCSIS 3.1 though and will I suspect present way more of a benefit than playing with upstream schedulers. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/02/29.jpg
Well that's a very up-to-date game... ---------- Post added at 13:59 ---------- Previous post was at 13:55 ---------- [Edit] So basically they've implemented random early detection, a standard, widespread queue management mechanism that's been around since 1993... ... And what about ECN? Why aren't more people using it? |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I seem to be getting awful jitter at the moment!
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/02/14.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Well as you can see, there's absolutely nothing wrong with my area at the moment.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...03-02-2015.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Nothing at all if you squint and look at the left half.
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I guess you're referring to dual token on upstream. Easy enough - I defer to this Google site: https://sites.google.com/site/amitsc...affic-policing Though of course the CIR on VM's tiers is zero - dual token is more built with services like VoIP in mind where the cable modem has to implement DTB to ensure it behaves well with a UGS VoIP service flow rather than allowing buffers to be overwhelmed by high bandwidth BE service flow traffic :) ---------- Post added at 18:39 ---------- Previous post was at 18:38 ---------- Quote:
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I am suffering from high utilisation in the evening when my download speed drops from 100mbit to 28mbit, when this happens i notice that part of my upstream power levels are different on each channel when i believe they're normally the same.
For example my current power levels are 39.75, 39.75 after a reboot which i think looks normal but last night they were reading 40.25, 41.75. What is the significance of the numbers being different after the decimal point as i thought the reason was mentioned here by someone but i can't find the post? |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
There is no significance. Having slightly differing power levels on any channel is normal. Different frequencies experience different levels of attenuation and interference.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I have noticed over the last few days I am getting a little bit of packet loss it appears
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/02/12.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
It seems our long lost friend is back. I notice a hump across my graph that perfectly coincides with midnight and appears on a few local CMTS graphs also:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...10-03-2015.png |
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This isn’t what we have seen previously, this isn’t a link becoming congested… Instead it looks like Virgin Media or a third party are shutting down a link, traffic is then taking an alternative route, which happens to have a higher latency. |
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There isn't a transit provider sitting between Virgin Media and Think Broadband. Not as far as I know anyway.
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No hump in Abingdon
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Well, whoever else NetConnex peer with is rather irrelevant given they have public peering directly with VM anyway.
And technically LINX is not a global tier 1 provider, it's an exchange that providers interconnect at. Neither is LONAP. |
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Getting really annoying witt this crap now.
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] |
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Was updating a game from about 11pm last night. Apart from that, online gaming. Fifa and FFXIV which were both very laggy
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
A brief overnight spike here last night - we've got an open utilisation fault with a "review date" in the not too distant future so I'm half expecting some funnies to be going on at some point...
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...20-03-2015.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Last nights graph. No downloading going on.
I called up VM the other night and told them that online gaming is almost pointless due to lag and latency problems. He replied saying there is work being done on 1st April that should fix it. Apparently its been affecting the whole network. Can any VM employee's confirm this at all? [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] |
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Hi there, I just found this forum after finding thinkbroadband over the weekend. I just wondered if anyone more experienced than me (which is basically everyone on here) can have a look at this and give me some indication of what it is I'm looking at. Other examples do not have so much blue so not sure what is going on here?
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] My Broadband Ping |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Hi st3v3y and welcome to the forum.
I am afraid I can't comment on your graph other than to say it looks very colourful but at least you don't seem to have too much red showing. No doubt other members will be along soon to admire the bluest graph I can ever remember seeing. :D |
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Why that is could be any number of reasons. A graph like yours could be caused by a line fault, or it could be a perfectly working connection where you've left some torrent seeding and uploading at full speed. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Thanks for the response guys.
As requested here are the details... https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/04/53.jpg https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/04/54.jpg https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/04/55.jpg https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/04/56.jpg Here is the graph again as for some reason it has disappeared https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/04/57.jpg |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
There's no clue in the levels other than the T3/T4 count. The network log shows the T4 that I would have expected from that graph which also shows noise (the red bit = packet loss usually caused by noise).
Is your upstream power steady or is it tending towards the 54 dBmv mark (which is bad)? At first sight I'd say you had a struggling upstream where there is difficulty for the VM end to read your data. hence the poor latency. This ca be caused by anything between your modem and the VM end. If a neighbour sees the same, then it's in VM's network. If it's only you, then a coax cable might not be tightly screwed in or the modem is playing up. What's the graph like now? Neighbours with VM? |
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I'll check the connections tonight. The graph has lost the yellow spikes at the moment and looks pretty much like the 10pm-Midnight part. There are a few minor yellow spikes but mainly just blue and green.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Anyone else getting packet loss? Might just be a local problem although nothing showing on the status checker.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/04/31.png |
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Seems as though the upstream power is maxed out.
US-1 US-2 US-3 US-4 Channel Type 2.0 N/A N/A 2.0 Channel ID 51 N/A N/A 49 Frequency (Hz) 32600000 N/A N/A 46200000 Ranging Status Success N/A N/A Success Modulation 16QAM N/A N/A 16QAM Symbol Rate (Sym/sec) 5120000 N/A N/A 5120000 Mini-Slot Size 4 N/A N/A 4 Power Level (dBmV) 54.50 N/A N/A 55.21 T1 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T2 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 T3 Timeouts 2 0 0 0 T4 Timeouts 0 0 0 0 |
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So almost 24 hours on this is how it is looking.
Basically, less yellow. http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...08-04-2015.png |
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....that's not a good thing
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Have you posted on the VM Forum where they have support staff of near 2nd line calibre who reply (after two or three days)?
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
VM is my next stop once I have gained a better understanding of what I'm looking at.
The connection lacks any consistency for every day use. Speeds are all over the place and seem to regularly drop out. |
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Basically your system can't work because of the noise on your line as indicated by the red on the TBB Graph.
The noise means that the VM end cannot read what is sent by the modem, including keep-alives and data. So after a certain number of T3 events, it resets and the connection drops. When you post this stuff on the VM forums, you'll get the same diagnosis from the Superusers there and after a couple of days (keep posting the stats/graphs) the VM bods will come on and agree with what we're saying here and what we will say there! They'll arrange an engineer. If you don't want to wait the two or three days, call it in during office hours and, if it were me, I'd put the phone down on offshore and try again until I get a UK agent. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Your Superhub looks knackered.
Or your upstream path is very broken and is constantly transitioning on power which is upsetting the Superhub. SNR per se isn't going to be the issue - that comes with packet loss but not the ridiculously high pings you have. |
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Well I've posted over at VM so let's hope there is a quick fix. Thanks for the help guys.
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Anyone getting packet lost?
I am in Lincoln LN6 https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/04/20.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I am having tea atm dude but i'll check it when i go back upstairs
---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ---------- I have never bothered with a TBB monitor before because I never have any problems with my connection but I have just set one up for you and I'll report back later. |
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You'll be worried for ever more each time you see something odd!
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I love the TBB graphs, I find them to be an excellent quick-glance diagnostics tool.
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Something close to the gold standard to get you worried, mon General!
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...15-04-2015.png |
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We have got a couple of hours of graphness now. It isn't perfect but I know what is causing it. When I am not gaming I have always got my torrent client running pretty much 24/7 so I'll continue to do business as usual for 24hrs so I get a baseline and then at 20:00 tomorrow I'll close my torrent client and leave my connection idle for 24hrs and see if the graph clears up. I am curious to see if I get any noticeable spikes in the morning when I do my downloading.
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When I'm running torrents there's a lot of yellow and blue.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Suddenly on a 77.* IP after we had an outage and now routing through sgyl33 instead of sgyl32. Guessing work took place when I was away.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/04/17.png Still seems a little bumpy to me but I may be being picky. |
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Uddingston is back to its best.
F003519439 Tivo network utilisation 20th May 2015 F003629131 Broadband utilisation 8th July 2015 |
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Here is mine today.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...16-04-2015.png Virgin have been working on the network today as u cam see. |
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Mine was a lot cleaner over night when my connection was idle and it looks pretty sweet. I had the spike around 21:20 because I sent a few hundred mb of photos to a friend but that is it. The concerning thing is that sporadic packet loss throughout the night till 0400.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2016/03/1.png |
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http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...17-04-2015.png
See how the torrents up till 9 increase the latency. The PC was idle apart from some video transcoding and so the torrents were going full tilt. Now we're on the 50M tier the evening hump seems to have gone now.:) |
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Uh-oh. Core network congestion again.
Can't see anything wrong to Telford though - are you connected via somewhere else or did they just fix it? |
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EDIT: What we're interested in by the way is the green rather than the rest - that'll show if there's congestion on VM's core. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2015/04/10.png |
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You been going to Church lately, Igni?
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I can be found in a church only for one of other people's three days - hatch, match, dispatch ;) |
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No hump, but you can see my area isn't ideal either:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...19-04-2015.png |
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Got this info from the ceo team last week. |
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Last time there was major core congestion up to Edinburgh a few CMTS IPs were still pinging normally despite others in the same building getting the massive hump. |
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It is mitigated by rebooting the SH1 every few days and avoided with a SH2. |
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In the meantime, Meekel, you could make life less miserable by posting your graph on the VM Forum and asking the Forum Team to send you a SH2 as replacement.
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[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]
Anyone else see a small spike downwards yesterday like this? Usually a packet loss spike would be indicate a reboot of the Superhub, or a T3/T4 or something connection related but nothing like that has occured. My line is free of Post RS errors too (And for the first time ever, free of Pre-RS errors on 4 channels) so nothing really seems to have happened my end. |
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If you have a SH1 then reporting in the network log is minimal. So you mat well have had a reset and you wouldn't know it - if you have a SH1.
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