Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

Hmm, I fail to see that Graham.
Russ didn't say the hijackers were muslim. They may consider themselves to be muslim, you (if inferred from what you just said) consider them to be muslim ("a *specific* act committed by Muslims").
You therefore (using your arguments against Russ) consider muslims to be terrorists.

But I know you don't. Using a bit of common sense, I can see that even though you refered to the people who flew the planes into the twin towers as muslim, you know that they were not following true islam, but some warped version of it.
Just the same, Russ chose to only deal with the fact that christianity does not teach hatred nor violence, as that is something he knows about for sure.
If he were to extend that to an unknown religion such as islam, then he would be making claims which although he may be pretty sure are true, he would not be able to back up.

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

Irrelevant.

The abortionists may well be Christians, however the anti-abortionists attack them because they don't hold to the same beliefs.

No, Ramrod, *you* try harder to remember what the subject actually is.

Let me quote your words again to jog your memory:

I have just given examples of *exactly* what you asked for, Christians who use hatred and acts of violence and terrorism against those who are either members of other religions or even their *own* religion if those people don't hold to the same extremist views.

Try harder.

Oh! They've killed loads, so that justifies us killing *ONE*? Ye gods... :rolleyes:

Again you fail to read what I have written <sigh>

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

Good, because that would have been utter nonsense.

In exactly the same way the extremists whose views I posted in that reply to Ramrod *call* themselves Christian.

Now as to what a "true" Christian, Muslim or whatever is, is down to those who believe in the theology, but that's another discussion entirely.

Ahem! "Does not"?

I think you mean "Should not"!!

Doubts benefit does not require facts to back it up. That's the whole *point* about it!!

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

You aren't being serious are you Russ????? :confused:


If you are then your not the sort of guy I imaged you to be :Yikes:

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

Graham you really are jumping to conclusions which simply don't exist. Those who the caused 9/11, I don't know WHAT faith they professed to be but whatever it was, I don't know enough to make a comment on it. I might question it, which is the way I learn about such things, but when it comes to a subject as deep and wide-spread as a religion, I won't comment until I have competant knowledge of it. I just wish certain people would do the same on here.

Yes - to me there IS a difference. I know a lot more about Christianity than I do about the Muslim faith.

*They* probably do but if they could show me anything in the NT which promotes their views and ideas I'll admit I'm wrong.

I'm 99% sure you're the only person who thinks I said that.

Nope, Xac was right first time.

Too right I was serious. What's wrong with someone preaching what we believe to be the Good News? If you don't want to hear it, walk away.

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

I said:"I am not aware of any Christians who use that approach in their dealings with members of other religions." Did she kill anyone? No. Did any christian kill a muslim because of her words? No.
Therefore, not irrelevant



I said:"I am not aware of any Christians who use that approach in their dealings with members of other religions. " We are talking religion here, not abortion.



I actually said: "I am not aware of any Christians who use that approach in their dealings with members of other religions. " You seem to be answering points that you have added to my origional statement. I suggest that you remember what I actually wrote!
I have highlited the extra words that you have added in your statement above to make it easy for you to see where you have gone wrong.
My original comment refered to acts of voilence or terrorism against people of other religions.



Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say or even imply that.



:eek:

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

You get used to that with Graham after a while....:D

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

I find this all a bit silly......

Correct me if I am wrong but EVERY religon in the world states something like " love your brother or fellow man " and forbids killing....

Kind of ironic that millions have died fighting for there religeon !!!

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

But I didn't think you went in for preaching at people who aren't interested, which is what Graham said. :erm:

Hardly "good news" that I'm going to hell, is it? :confused:

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

Well I don't, but for the people who do, how are they to know if someone isn't interested?

I'm pretty sure they preach a little bit more than that.....

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

Then you are deliberately blinding yourself to the facts. Whatever your opinions of my beliefs are, I do my damndest to be objective and extend the benefit of the doubt, however I can find nothing that gives any reasonable or credible doubt to the claims that the September 11th terrorists called themselves and believed themselves to be Muslims. If you have, please, cite it here.

Oh, BTW, is that a splinter in my eye??

And *how* exactly will you learn or gain "competant knowledge" when you keep dodging the issue?

Russ, I have just negative repped you for this sort of childish sniping and now you make another petty dig without having the guts or the good grace to use anyone's name. If you mean me, *say* it is me you mean. If it is someone else use *their* name. Don't just sling mud around and hope it sticks because it does your credibility no good at all.

And so, because you lack knowledge, you should give them the benefit of the doubt, rather than implictly apply guilt by association.

You will have to take that up with them, not me.

Ah, now we have the fallacy of Appeal to Popularity...!

Now we're back to the distinction between "True Christians", ie the ones that Russ agrees with, and those who he disagrees with who are, therefore, not "True Christians"...

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

Quoting you from post#40: The christian promises hellfire in the next life whilst the muslim (if the quotes on this thread are to be accepted) promises to do nasty things to non-believers in this life.

I have given examples of *Christians* doing the things that you say *Muslims* "promise to do... in this life".

:rofl: Oh good grief, Ramrod, are you *seriously* trying to suggest that many people's opinions on abortion are *NOT* influenced by religion?!?!

I do remember what you wrote, I've quoted it and now quoted your previous remarks to ensure that the context is clear!

Ramrod, I have "added" those words because they are entirely relevant and apposite in the context of the discussion in this thread. And trying to narrow the goalposts to just "people of other religions" ignores the behaviour of groups such as the Taliban against other Muslims who they considered to be "insufficiently (or incorrectly) devout" and this can easily be compared to the behaviour of some extremist Christian groups against *other* Christians.

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

Well at least this time you had the courage to name me.

Of course despite the smiley it's just a pathetic attempt to smear me without backing it up with anything because there *is* nothing to back it up with.

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

Graham, if I am going tomake a comment about you or anyone you can be as sure as s*** that I would name you, as I did above.

In the case of the comment you neg repped me for, I actually was NOT referring to you but if you want to think I was then that's all that matters.

The thing is I and a few others find it very difficult to have a decent discussion with you on certain matters as you constantly take (IMO) rather odd points of view to my and other's comments on the Bible. You are perfectly entitled to disagree with my views but when you start reading things in to matters which aren't there and acting on comments which you "think" I'm trying to make when I've never made or implied them, I'm sorry but I'm going to respond.

Re: Muslims outpace Anglicans in the UK
 

Have you given examples of christian suicide bombers? No. Have you given examples of christians flying planes into buildings? No.
You have given examples of christians saying things but not of christians doing things.



Of course they are but we aren't talking about them and abortion, we are talking about 'muslims v christians' in the 'terrorism stakes'

that may well be but they aren't relevant when you are disputing a remark that I made and the context that I made it in.
:eek: I didn't narrow the goalposts, you widened them to try to disprove a statement that I made.


*edit* Ah! I see where the confusion is arising here, It hinges on my use of the word 'promise' :D You think I meant that christians say hateful things as well as muslims (of course they bloody do! :rolleyes: ).
I meant that christians promise hellfire in the afterlife (and leave it to God to deliver) but (some) muslims promise hellfire in this life...and deliver it themselves.
I'm sorry about the confusion :)