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1andrew1 10-08-2021 10:56
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36089242)
The Dutch have dealt dangerous sea levels quite successfully for a while.

Human ingenuity will mitigate many of the affects of a changing climate.
There's a financial cost to it all these mitigations and it's probably cheaper to build more wind turbines to replace coal-fired stations long term than it is to constantly build all these mitigations.

The other issue is that some countries may be unable to afford these mitigations. Not everywhere is as rich as the UK.

tweetiepooh 10-08-2021 11:34
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Financial and climate cost to replacing stuff too. It takes energy to make stuff and it would have to be extraordinarily more efficient than the old to make it really worth while.


And more efficient doesn't mean better. I can't use induction hobs (pacemaker) and like the instant heat and control of gas heating. If people just swapped out gas for heat pumps and then wanted more heat "now" they'd plug in electric heaters.


And coal/wood fires work in power cuts. Very useful when they have happened, can heat main room and even cook on it.

1andrew1 10-08-2021 11:39
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36089251)
Financial and climate cost to replacing stuff too. It takes energy to make stuff and it would have to be extraordinarily more efficient than the old to make it really worth while.


And more efficient doesn't mean better. I can't use induction hobs (pacemaker) and like the instant heat and control of gas heating. If people just swapped out gas for heat pumps and then wanted more heat "now" they'd plug in electric heaters.


And coal/wood fires work in power cuts. Very useful when they have happened, can heat main room and even cook on it.
It's a global issue, not just us in the prosperous West. No one's pretending that there are no costs involved and that sacrifices in convenience won't have to be made.

Sephiroth 10-08-2021 11:46
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36089245)
There's a financial cost to it all these mitigations and it's probably cheaper to build more wind turbines to replace coal-fired stations long term than it is to constantly build all these mitigations.

The other issue is that some countries may be unable to afford these mitigations. Not everywhere is as rich as the UK.
That isn't the best answer you could have given, Andrew.

The mitigations will be necessary whatever we do with carbon. The engine is rolling and there's no cut-off button.

On the matter of other countries, this is a shit-or-bust situation for each coastal nation. And not just coastal nations - i might find time to research this further - but if the Baltic rises 2m, then Poland as far as Katowice would be under water. If you dig into the ground in Warsaw, it's sand when you're just a few cm down and the country is flat from the Baltic southward.

jonbxx 10-08-2021 11:49
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Ignoring the human effects of extreme weather (long report here) the economic effects of climate change could be huge.

SwissRe who know a thing or bit about risk as a reinsurer (one of the those huge companies you've never heard of) has this page where the risks of climate change are assessed for the 48 countries who account for 90% of the global GDP. The resilience of each country to the effects of heat, sea level rise, health, crop yield and tourism can be seen on the country drop down. However, the overall assessment is India, SE Asia and northern S.America could be in for a world of pain.

Pierre 10-08-2021 12:33
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36089245)
There's a financial cost to it all these mitigations and it's probably cheaper to build more wind turbines to replace coal-fired stations long term than it is to constantly build all these mitigations.

The other issue is that some countries may be unable to afford these mitigations. Not everywhere is as rich as the UK.
It's not an either / or, scenario.

1andrew1 10-08-2021 12:51
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36089260)
It's not an either / or, scenario.
Absolutely. Currently we need mitigation for the current and worsening situation.
Add more coal stations to the mix and you'll need these mitigating too hence more expensive power may be better value if it needs less mitigation.

Pierre 11-08-2021 08:29
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Did we make it past 1982?

Sephiroth 11-08-2021 08:48
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36089368)
Did we make it past 1982?
The doom merchants will say that if we'd listened then, we wouldn't be up queer street now. I'm in the mitigation camp, for the record.

However, the attached map suggests, as someone else has mentioned in this thread, that we can expect migrations and the wars they will might/will bring. The map shows that up to 2m people in the UK face displacement. This can be mitigated by the richer countries, but the thought of half a billion Africans storming Europe is horrifying.

Damien 11-08-2021 10:03
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
One thing the report mentioned is that we can stop it. That's pretty good news IMO.

Over the last 10 years, both politicians and the public have come to accept that it's an urgent problem that needs addressing. I remember that it used to be that you would hit a lot of scepticism that global warming was even happening, then it was 'it's happening but it isn't us' and I was expecting the final stage to be 'ok it was us but it's too late to do anything now'.

pip08456 11-08-2021 11:34
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36089385)
One thing the report mentioned is that we can stop it. That's pretty good news IMO.

Over the last 10 years, both politicians and the public have come to accept that it's an urgent problem that needs addressing. I remember that it used to be that you would hit a lot of scepticism that global warming was even happening, then it was 'it's happening but it isn't us' and I was expecting the final stage to be 'ok it was us but it's too late to do anything now'.
Perhaps but at ever increasing costs.

Quote:
The world faces a growing paradox in the campaign to contain climate change. The harder it pushes the transition to a greener economy, the more expensive the campaign becomes, and the less likely it is to achieve the aim of limiting the worst effects of global warming.

New government-directed spending is driving up demand for materials needed to build a cleaner economy. At the same time, tightening regulation is limiting supply by discouraging investment in mines, smelters, or any source that belches carbon. The unintended result is “greenflation”: rising prices for metals and minerals such as copper, aluminium and lithium that are essential to solar and wind power, electric cars and other renewable technologies.

In the past, the transition to a new energy source provided a big boost to the old one. The advent of steam power inspired the makers of sailing ships to innovate more in 50 years than they had in the previous 300. Electricity had a similar impact on gas lighting. Now, building green economies will consume more oil in the transition period, but producers are not responding the same way because political and regulatory resistance has darkened the future of fossil fuels.
https://www.ft.com/content/49c19d8f-...9-50c7126076ee

Don't know if paywaiied, wasn't for me.

Carth 11-08-2021 13:38
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Global Warming . . probably a huge issue but I'm no scientist or geological expert.

We could do some massive things to control it . . . but 95% of the world population would never accept them ;)

papa smurf 11-08-2021 14:29
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36089412)
Global Warming . . probably a huge issue but I'm no scientist or geological expert.

We could do some massive things to control it . . . but 95% of the world population would never accept them ;)
Best if we just penalise the working man/woman and tax the arse off everything they use , tax after all is carbon neutral;)

Carth 18-09-2021 14:25
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Probably in the wrong place, but after thinking about it, it came down to a choice of here or the Jokes thread (because it made me laugh) :D

Anyway, in these days of Global Warming and the amount of expert stuff that gets thrown at us as it's cause, something I never expected to read on the BBC news site was this:

Quote:
BBC political correspondent Pete Saull said a "number of options" were being considered, including importing CO2.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58605735


there's also this one https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58600583
:D

papa smurf 18-09-2021 14:37
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36093552)
Probably in the wrong place, but after thinking about it, it came down to a choice of here or the Jokes thread (because it made me laugh) :D

Anyway, in these days of Global Warming and the amount of expert stuff that gets thrown at us as it's cause, something I never expected to read on the BBC news site was this:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58605735


there's also this one https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58600583
:D
So we have a shortage of something that we produce too much of.


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