Cable Forum - Black Lives Matter

Page 5 of 80

Last »

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)

- Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)

- - Black Lives Matter (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709106)

Mythica

07-06-2020 21:04

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36038776)

Take a peek at the BBC link i posted. then lets discuss further.

---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

Why is there such an issue with using the name? If it's used to highlight inequality and racism in society

Did you campaign for CIF to be renamed back to JIF ? ;)

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

And here highlights the lack of understanding of the issue.

Not one person is saying other life doesn't matter.

People are saying we need to prioritise black lives right now.

And here lies the problem. No one life should be prioritised over another. We are all human and should be equal. Starting from a point that isnt equal, such as black lives matter isn't going to make us equal. I'm all for all lives matter, in a way were I still understand racism exists and needs sorting, I just believe it's the wrong way of doing it.

Thats not me not understanding the issue, just wanting to solve the issue in another way.

BenMcr

07-06-2020 21:09

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36038768)

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....ictions/latest

Total number of convictions = 177,230
No of black ethnicity convicted: = 18,384 = 10.4%

It seems obvious to me (and others here are more-or-less saying this) that a definitive attack on the causes of excess crime in this ethnic group should be properly studied and dealt with - the latter being very difficult.

Yeah, that's not the whole story though and there is not a simple answer. There is also this:
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....arrests/latest

Quote:

Black people were over 3 times as likely to be arrested as White people – there were 35 arrests for every 1,000 Black people, and 10 arrests for every 1,000 White people
overall, men were 6 times as likely to be arrested as women – there were 22 arrests for every 1,000 men, and 4 arrests for every 1,000 women
Black women were more than twice as likely to be arrested as White women – there were 7 arrests for every 1,000 Black women, and 3 arrests for every 1,000 White women

If you arrest more people then you're going find more crime. That's true across society, however if you target a specific ethnic group more, then the conviction figures for that group are skewed. In order to say whether there is 'excess' crime, then you first have to have a consistent approach to where and how you are looking for it.

You can't tell me that you think this is right:

Quote:

in 2017/18, the biggest difference in the arrest rates between Black people and White people was in Dorset (where Black people were almost 12 times as likely to be arrested as White people), followed by Cumbria (where Black people were 10 times as likely to be arrested as White people)

Pierre

07-06-2020 21:27

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36038776)

Why is there such an issue with using the name? If it's used to highlight inequality and racism in society

Because it represents something in the USA, that is specific to the USA and not the U.K.

Quote:

Did you campaign for CIF to be renamed back to JIF ?

No, because I don’t know what that is.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:11 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36038781)

if you arrest more people then you're going find more crime. That's true across society, however if you target a specific ethnic group more, then the conviction figures for that group are skewed. In order to say whether there is 'excess' crime, then you first have to have a consistent approach to where and how you are looking for it.

You can't tell me that you think this is right:

I don’t think that is correct.

Regardless of the number of arrests on either subject. What is the conviction rate per 1000 arrests.

I’m pretty sure, I’d go so far as to say I’m certain, there are more white people arrested per year than black people.

mrmistoffelees

07-06-2020 21:30

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 36038780)

By your very logic then allied forces shouldn’t have got involved in the fight against Nazi Germany ?

jfman

07-06-2020 21:31

Re: Black Lives Matter

Inequality and racism don’t exist in the UK?

BenMcr

07-06-2020 21:31

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36038782)

What is the conviction rate per 1000 arrests.

The arrest rate is 3 times higher per 1000 people for the Black community than the white one.

Quote:

Arrest rate per 1,000 people, and number of arrests, by ethnicity
Black - 35 % - 64,670
White - 10 % - 485,885

Conviction rate is higher for the white community per 1000 than others:

Quote:

in 2017, the conviction ratios for Black and Mixed ethnic groups were lowest at 78.7% and 79%
in 2017, the conviction ratio was highest for defendants in the White ethnic group, at 85.3%

You can't say with certainty that there is more crime in the Black community, just that police are looking for it more.

If the arrest rates per 1000 per ethnic group were the same, you could then start drawing simple comparisons. Until it is the raw numbers aren't the whole story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36038782)

I’m pretty sure, I’d go so far as to say I’m certain, there are more white people arrested per year than black people.

There are, but that's because mentioned above, the white population in the UK is higher. As the government figures show, per 1000 people it's much higher in the Black community.

mrmistoffelees

07-06-2020 21:36

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36038782)

Because it represents something in the USA, that is specific to the USA and not the U.K.

No, because I don’t know what that is.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:11 ----------

I don’t think that is correct.

Regardless of the number of arrests on either subject. What is the conviction rate per 1000 arrests.

I’m pretty sure, I’d go so far as to say I’m certain, there are more white people arrested per year than black people.

Police brutality and systemic racism towards the black community in the UK exists the use of the name is perfectly valid

BenMcr

07-06-2020 21:43

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36038787)

Police brutality and systemic racism towards the black community in the UK exists the use of the name is perfectly valid

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-by-ethnicity/

Quote:

Between 2008/09 and 2018/19, 85 percent of deaths in police custody in England and Wales were white people, who make up 86 percent of the UK population. In the same time period, black people accounted for eight percent of the UK deaths in police custody, while only making up three percent of the total population.

https://www.inquest.org.uk/bame-deat...police-custody

Quote:

The proportion of BAME deaths in custody where restraint is a feature is over two times greater than it is in other deaths in custody
The proportion of BAME deaths in custody where use of force is a feature is over two times greater than it is in other deaths in custody
The proportion of BAME deaths in custody where mental health-related issues are a feature is nearly two times greater than it is in other deaths in custody

Pierre

07-06-2020 21:55

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36038786)

The arrest rate is 3 times higher per 1000 people for the Black community than the white one.

Conviction rate is higher for the white community per 1000 than others:

Good stat, and that does show a disparity. If the arrest rate for Black was high and conviction rate high, that would suggest the arrest rate is justified.

But as it is the conviction rate is lower than for white, which suggests the arrest rate per 1000 is possibly disproportionately high?

---------- Post added at 20:55 ---------- Previous post was at 20:49 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36038787)

Police brutality and systemic racism towards the black community in the UK exists the use of the name is perfectly valid

Black U.K. citizens are not in fear of their life from the U.K. police.

They may be pissed off with Thevpolice, and feel oppressed, targeted even. But their “lives” are not In danger. Therefore there is no correlation with USA movement. It is not valid

Their lives are more in danger from others in their community, they should protest about that.

BenMcr

07-06-2020 22:12

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36038789)

Black Lives Matter is not just about deaths from the police:
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

Quote:

Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Our intention from the very beginning was to connect Black people from all over the world who have a shared desire for justice to act together in their communities. The impetus for that commitment was, and still is, the rampant and deliberate violence inflicted on us by the state.

And BLM in it's current form was founded after the death of Trayvon Martin - who was not killed by the police. The anger there was the circumstances of his killer's acquittal in the trial.

And honestly, it is not the place of those not part of a community to assume what they are or are not in fear of.

Pierre

07-06-2020 22:27

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36038793)

Black Lives Matter is not just about deaths from the police:
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

And BLM in it's current form was founded after the death of Trayvon Martin - who was not killed by the police. The anger there was the circumstances of his killer's acquittal in the trial.

I’m well aware of the history of BLM and followed many of the cases on American tv for many years.

Quote:

And honestly, it is not the place of those not part of a community to say what they are or are not in fear of.

Well “honestly” Ben , i don’t care what you think. I certainly can’t speak for the Black community, but I’m pretty sure when a young black man is out at night he’s not expecting to have a 9 inch blade stuck in his chest by PC Johnson? But those other 5 black kids that have been following him for the last 5 minutes just may do.

BenMcr

07-06-2020 22:30

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36038794)

But those other 5 black kids that have been following him for the last 5 minutes just may do.

Depending where you are, and in most of England and Wales, you'd need to be more worried about white kids:
https://fullfact.org/crime/are-major...nority-ethnic/

Quote:

In England and Wales 38% of knife possession offenders under 25s were non-white in 2017. It was two thirds in London.

As I said before, there are complex reasons behind any of the statistics, but making general statements is not a way to help any of us find a workable solutions to the issues.

Pierre

07-06-2020 23:01

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36038795)

Depending where you are, and in most of England and Wales, you'd need to be more worried about white kids:
https://fullfact.org/crime/are-major...nority-ethnic/

As I said before, there are complex reasons behind any of the statistics, but making general statements is not a way to help any of us find a workable solutions to the issues.

1. Well it’s not the police is it?

2. 2/3rd in London, and given that the Black population in London is over 13%, 4x the national figure, it is an issue not to be obfuscated.

Knife crime is a national issue, yes of course, more so in London - but my point is valid. Black young men are more likely to be killed by black young men than the police.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------

https://unherd.com/2020/06/british-a...-not-the-same/

jfman

07-06-2020 23:05

Re: Black Lives Matter

Everyone is more likely to be killed by the non-police population than the police.

That’s absolutely irrelevant to institutional racism and inequality, that essentially the British Empire ran on, and still permeates British society today.

BenMcr

07-06-2020 23:12

Re: Black Lives Matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36038797)

https://unherd.com/2020/06/british-a...-not-the-same/

No-one said they are exactly the same, but that article is not arguing there isn't an issue:

Quote:

I don’t wish to downplay the situation and claim there isn’t a problem with racism and violence. There is; but I want to be mindful of the black American situation. Black people in Britain haven’t been victims of pornographic forms of racist violence such as public lynching. The police in Britain don’t shoot 12-year-old children at point-blank range, was the case with Tamir Rice.

To make a like-for-like equation between Britain and America is untrue, potentially inflammatory and crassly propagandistic. Racism and police brutality absolutely exist and are serious problems. But they must be addressed on their own terms.

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:28.

Page 5 of 80

Last »

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page