Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

Wiping out the majority of Native American tribes, almost making the buffalo extinct.. still hunting defenceless animals, killing school kids and numerous adults.

Fact gun deaths out strip car deaths in the USA.

The right to bear arms SUCKS big time.

Make America Great Again (Trump)... really!

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

It does suck because it is a so outdated piece of the U.S Constitution.

Let's look at the text of the 2nd Amendment from 1791...

“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

When that text was written and formed part of the U.S Constitution in 1791. Semi-Automatic guns and rifles had not been invented and wouldn't be until another 100 years later. I'm sure the right to bear arms granted over 200 years ago, did not grant the right to bear arms of such powerful weapons, but because the 200 year old text is so ambiguous, as well as out of date, owning such powerful guns is perfectly legal.

If this was not the only issue. Every week, infact, even today, there is a story of negligent gun owners in America, leaving their legally owned gun, for their young kids to find and shoot and blow their heads off or the sibling or both.

But tragedy after tragedy of gun violence, talk of altering or changing the 2nd Amendment, would still be sacrilege to many Americans.

Even if America adopted a more stricter gun control program, the problem would be, closing the stable doors, after the horse has bolted, as the amount of guns still in circulation, would see the issue of a gun control system seem too little, too late.

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

So why are Canadians and Swiss relatively immune from this kind of thing in spite of similar levels of gun ownership?

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

If you are talking about Guns per Capita, Canada and Switzerland don't have similar gun ownership levels as the U.S. In fact no country comes close to America.

In America, there are 112 guns owned per 100 people. So as statistics go, there is more guns in circulation than there are people living in the U.S.

The next country below the U.S is Serbia and it drops to 58 guns per 100 people.

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esti...ita_by_country

As for immunity, I don't think it plays in to it, Canada laws are more up to date. Don't know about the Swiss. But it's no wonder the U.S has issues with the level of gun ownership it has.

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

I'd take that link with a heavy pinch of salt, it's based on very flawed figures. In Switzerland every adult male under 42 is armed to the teeth for national defence and it's one of the safest places to live

http://rense.com/general14/safestplace.htm

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

I think Canada at least has much tougher background tests and a month long waiting period as well.

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

It does say on the Wikipedia source that data is from 2007, so it's considerably out of date.

I wonder Maggy if they could be???

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

Perhaps if there was a group who could take things on for the victims of gun crime then perhaps that is a option because for one person or a family it would probably be pretty expensive to try to sue the NRA.

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

They could try, but the NRA would win every time. They would just hide behind the 2nd Amendment, that gives Americans the right to bear arms.

As the death toll stands as of now, the Las Vegas massacre, where 58 people died in the worst U.S Mass shooting, in modern U.S history. I've seen many Americans still clinging to their gun rights, I have seen the same argument of, "No one is taking my guns off me!"

And it's even funnier when Americans see the British criticise their gun ownership policy. "You Brits don't have guns, but knives get used and you can get stabbed instead."

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

It seems like having mandatory, federal, background checks and registrations would at least help without preventing people from buying guns. I.E You have to obtain a licence, the licence is recorded at a federal level and requires a background check which searches any suspected link to terrorism, any violent criminal behaviour and any troublesome mental health issues. Each gun purchase is subsequently recorded against that licence and requires an additional waiting period. It would be illegal to sell or give a gun to someone with that licence and without the registration.

We do this, albeit without the background check, for people to drive cars so why not to own guns? I heard that people who are on no-fly lists can still buy semi-automatic rifles. That is a mental situation to be in. It highlights the power of the NRA that they've all lost quite a degree of freedom over the internet and air-travel arrangements but their freedom to amass a vast arsenal has increased since 9/11.

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

And possibly considerably inaccurate


The data offered by the Small Arms Survey has several times been denounced as misleading or plain wrong. The best known case is the estimation of the amount of firearms in Finland. The number was so high that virtually every Finnish family should have an illegal firearm at home (on top of all the legal ones) to be true. This number has since then kept popping up as the Small Arms Survey has not corrected it, despite even the Finnish ministry of interior making a statement that the numbers are completely wrong.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Arms_Survey

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

Maybe also a limit on the number of guns able to be held and a law to prevent owners selling their old weapons to anyone other than than a licensed dealer. On the news the other day I'm sure I heard that in some places it's possible to buy a gun legitimately according to the various state rules etc but then sell it on or give it to whoever you want. That just sounds bizarre. :shrug:

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

Yup. I think 'gun shows/expos' are allowed to sell weapons without any checking etc in some states. Literally turn up, hand over cash, walk out with it. Not sure how true that is though.

Part of the idea of having a weapon registered to a licence is then you need to account for it. If it's used in a crime and the serial number is registered to you then you need to explain how it came to be in the possession of the person who committed the crime.

Re: Las Vegas: Mass shooting in Mandalay Bay
 

Probably, in part, the type of weapons and the reasoning behind their ownership - e.g. hunting, former military service etc. and the way in which guns are generally perceived in those countries.

It does seem that a lot of people in the US own guns for very different reasons from that, amongst which is that they just get a buzz out of owning the biggest/best/latest/fastest firing etc. etc. They may not initially have set out to use those weapons in anger but the fact that they do own them always allows that possibility in certain situations when someone goes berserk or descends into mental illness for example.

Nobody needs an automatic rifle for anything legitimate so you have to wonder about the mindset of people like this guy who have an armoury of high powered weapons at hand. Maybe his stockpiling of all those weapons was the first sign of his descent into serious mental illness. :shrug: