Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

Aren't they mostly radicalised via the internet? It would be reasonably easy to track suspects if they all went to a specific mosque.

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

After a certain point it can be done online but most of the time it starts in the mosques by charismatic figures and completes online in some cases but not all mosques are the breeding ground.

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

from the concert in Manchester...

https://streamable.com/w3pxr

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

I totally agree. It may cause diplomatic and business problems but that's a small price to pay compared to those who paid with their lives in London and Manchester.

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

we really need to stop selling arms to Saudi Arabia for a start

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

Why do you think this? There have been numerous groups and hate preachers operating in this country in the recent past.

Do you suppose they have all disappeared? If there are Mosques funded by Wahhabi monies then these do present a real & present danger.

List of UK Mosques:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...United_Kingdom

Note the number of Deobandi influenced:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deobandi

A worrying trend ...

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

The internet is a part of it but to pretend it's the whole is just continuing the very mindset that's got us where we are and those in power have to start accepting that our traditional view of places of worship is not applicable to all mosques. While the majority of Muslims don't take part in violent acts a growing number have more sympathy with those that do then they have with the victims of these attacks and that's no longer acceptable or at least it shouldn't be. Islam in it's current form is not compatible with western society and there is absolutely no chance of the faith altering or evolving to fit into western society like most other religions have.

This is dodgy ground for me as an atheist and I'd be far more comfortable if this was politically motivated but it isn't the violence and the faith are completely intertwined and I'm getting tired of seeing innocent civilians here and on mainland europe dead on pavements in the name of religion.

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

Shots fired in Dagenham now

---------- Post added at 04:53 ---------- Previous post was at 04:51 ----------

Prisons are the breeding ground imo, it'll take cash to sort it and we have shown already we're not prepared to spend it

Those shots might have been the sound of doors being kicked in, apparently...

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

:confused: Do you mean Qatar?

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

Dave's correct - Saudi Arabia, see ianch99's post re the Saudi-funded Deobandi mosques.

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

Just reading some of the replies here seems to indicate that the terror tactics are working.

(I want to try to keep this fairly neutral as it can apply to any group.)

We should never give up our freedoms that have been fought for and over for so long. Neither should we join those hate filled people in their hate. The more we try to "clamp down" the more ammunition we give to them on how our country suppresses their "rights" and "freedoms" and how "ordinary people" need to rise up and help.

And then how do you know that "your group" won't get "targetted" because of some similarity makes you "the same" and "just in case".

I've mentioned before that a Muslim will see any attack against another Muslim by non-Muslims as an attack on all Muslims and will put aside many differences to join in defending/attacking. So it may not be as easy as simply identifying radical teachers, it is something more central to the culture than that.

From a Christian point of view we need to "love our enemies". Now that is not to say we do not punish those guilty of crime but we leave that to the courts. At an individual level though we don't need to take on that burden of hate and revenge.

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

I think that you need to clarify what you specifically mean by "clamp down" and "attack". Your post is too ambiguous to apply to any specific context.

If you mean "clamp down" is to deny citizens the ability to enjoy the hard won freedoms of this pluralist society that you are 100% correct. However, if you mean the Government should not attempt to prevent Immans, Preachers, Activists, etc. whose goal is to pervert the minds of the young & impressionable then I would disagree with you.

There is a fine but important line to be drawn between reactions that punish the Muslim community as a whole where the vast majority abhor this behaviour and those actions that are targeted at the radicals.

We need total clarity on who the Government is targeting. This message should be writ large and clear in the media and leaders of the Muslim community should be active participants and more importantly should be seen to be active participants.

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

Indeed. What does that say about the 45% of British based Muslims who are attending those mosques? We are constantly told that radical muslims are 'a tiny minority' of the total. How does that mesh with the information above?

---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

Suddenly, Trumps approach doesn't seem all that bad.....:(

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

I believe it's clear from the context of his post he means the former. We obviously need to clamp down on radicalisation and extremism but we should perverse our own freedoms whilst doing so, i.e I don't think we should ban end-to-end encryption or force companies to build a 'back door' in.

He is certainly right we should not give the terrorists the war they want. They broadly want to provoke a clash of civilizations and turn this into the West vs them. There are of course some Britain First types who want such a war as well.

I'm not sure what the answer is ultimately but for all the tough talk from some I don't think I am alone in that. It's also a problem elsewhere. After all there have been far-right attacks that seem to have, in part, been inspired from the Internet as well.

Re: 7 Dead and 48 Injured in London Bridge Terror Attack
 

There are those on both sides who would love this to turn into a wider war and that's the last thing i want to see i do not want to trade civilian dead on our streets for military deaths overseas or civilian dead in the middle east. We are to blame a bit Blair's actions heightened tensions and undoubtedly helped in recruitment but that's not an excuse or even a reason to attack as they are. This is a new form of hostilities where our traditional values in the west are being used against us to aid those **** that would continue attacking and we have to look at how we can adapt and if needed change that in relation to this minority of violent attackers.

Yes it is a minority commiting these attacks but they have broader support within the islamic communities and that support has grown despite all efforts to address that. There is no magic bullet here no single measure that's going to resolve this and we need to work with the islamic community but they need to realise they cannot continue as they have previously. It's no longer acceptable that all the effort for change is on our side there needs to be change within islam in the west and they need to do more then just go in front of cameras after an attack with condemnation that lasts only as long as the camera is on and have a different stance when they go back to their mosque.