Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Which intentions were these? Are these "intentions" which you, like the troops on the day, have mistakenly assumed / alleged and which the Bloody Sunday inquiry found no proof of?

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Intentions such as IRA snipers in place before the march ,the probability of Martin McGuinness supplying detonators for nail bombs on the day of the march and carrying a machine gun (evidenced in the saville enquiry).Make no mistake that day was always going to end badly either because of the British troops or the IRA

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

It has to be said that Mr Angry certainly knows how to make a memorable return :D

---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------

I know what it is you're saying and I agree in principle but I have to point out that you are mistake in that comment - the British Army didn't kill unarmed subjects, a number of soldiers did. It could be argued as semantics but I say the two are a world's difference.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Marty, You'd do well to read the overview of the findings again. Here is David Camerons speech.

It makes no reference to any "probability of Martin McGuinness supplying detonators for nail bombs on the day of the march...".

What David Cameron does say (quoting the report findings) is "In each case, the findings are clear. It does the same for Martin McGuinness. It specifically finds he was present and probably armed with a sub-machine gun but it concludes, and I quote, "we're sure that he did not engage in any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire".

Yes, the day did "end badly". Innocent civilians were gunned down in cold blood by members of the British army. Whilst you may wish to argue the contrary your Prime Minister stated "There is no doubt, there is nothing equivocal, there are no ambiguities. What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong".

There was no intention on the part of any of the victims who were shot dead "For those looking for statements of innocence, Saville says that the immediate responsibility for the deaths and injuries on Bloody Sunday lies with those members of support company whose unjustifiable firing was the cause of those deaths and injuries. Crucially, that, and I quote, none of the casualties was posing a threat of causing death or serious injury or indeed was doing anything else that could, on any view, justified in shooting."

You appear to be prepared to attempt to somehow excuse or defend the actions of the soldiers on that day. David Cameron takes a very different view whereby he states unequivocally "You do not defend the British Army by defending the indefensible".

Wise words indeed.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I do not either but the law of the land sees it differently and we all have to abide by the law of the land or suffer the consequences whether you agree with them or not. Why should this man get preferential treatment? he should not imo

---------- Post added at 12:55 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

you can not have a law and then say it does not apply it is then a war crime . Saddam was hung for not obeying the law various AQ leaders including OBL have been targeted for not obeying international law. How can you fight on the side of that law then say it does not apply because the enemy which we are fighting because of breaches to this law do not follow it???

---------- Post added at 12:57 ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 ----------

how can you say we hold ourselves accountable then say the geneva convention should not apply to others???

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Which is exactly what i said in response to your statement of "which intentions" ,i think that answers your question .The IRA had every intention of turning that day into a very bad day for British troops and civilians ,the problem was that the soldiers being on edge,nervous ,scared or whatever opened fire first ,and yes i will defend the actions of the soldiers up to a point ,the same as you seem prepared to defend people fully prepared to blow the crap out of the soldiers

---------- Post added at 13:23 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Marine A is not getting preferential treatment ,he has been court martialled for murder and found guilty .However his sentencing should bear in mind any extenuating circumstances the same as any sentencing in civvy would .War is a unique environment and comparing it to civvy street is ridiculous ,in some cases committing a relatively minor offence like theft will get you hard jail time because you wear a uniform instead of community service or a slap on the wrist because you wear a hoodie,do you think that fair

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

:tu:

I reckon that our forces, for by far the most part, treat their captured enemies with a great deal more respect than the terrorists ever do when the roles are reversed. In an imperfect world, fighting an enemy that will stop at nothing, that's something to be proud of and nothing which was done in N. Ireland or anywhere else alters that.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

A if I can get away with it, B as a minimum

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

no but some here want him to

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:36 ----------

and the most part doing right does not alter the fact that some including bloody Sunday did wrong

Just to clarify my position here. I do not think what Marine A did was wrong I am all for blowing away all terrorists. My point is I do not think they should be treated differently in law the fact the law is wrong imo is not relevant

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I always thought the only rule of war was to kill the enemy.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

I know others have different opinions than me, & I would respect that opinion, provided the person has been & seen the same as me. Mr Angry, how many years have we had differing opinions re N.I.? Paratroopers are not street cops, they are highly trained & motivated shock troops. We train these men for front line action requiring overwhelming firepower & surprise.

It was stupid to put them on the street that day. It was a recipe for disaster. I believe I told you the same a while ago, we all knew they wouldn't take ****. I was a 20 year old lad on rapid reaction when the crap hit the fan.

Although N.I. & Iraq etc are different, clothes, culture, religion, abodes, country, etc, they share one fact, insurgents don't wear a uniform. So, who is the enemy?? They both detonate explosives, both kill their own people, women & children, to kill a soldier.

It is extremely difficult to keep an open mind when you see the bodies of your mates, or the aftermath of a bombing. I believe its a credit to most soldiers that they don't seek revenge, but, back on topic, this Marine broke the rules & he will pay the price. But allowance should be made, because he was trained to kill, without compassion, by his government.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

:tu:

---------- Post added at 17:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

And those who are quick to condemn him will never understand that if they have never served and put there neck on the line.

How many here are condemning this soldier when they have never served and therefor will never ever understand what it is like to put yourself in the position he was in, Weeks and weeks watching your mates die by people who don't give a toss for the Geneva convention in the first sodding place.

---------- Post added at 17:17 ---------- Previous post was at 17:15 ----------

:waving::waving:

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Absolutely true but that isn't justification for a two-tier legal system.

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

Excellent post.

Yes he will pay the price and still be condemned by some here but had he been a terrorist he'd be a hero to those he represented.

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:17 ----------

Well said!

:tu:

Re: Marine killer deserves clemency
 

and those of you that have served have to understand that does not give you special rights to do what you want in law. The law may well be wrong but it does not give you the god given right to special treatment