Cable Forum - Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

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Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35755106)

Nope, of course not, but that's the good thing about statements of fact backed with evidence from source, it leaves little room for bias, especially when stating something so binary.

If the criteria for something being considered a 'fact' is that it's presented by an organisation with no bias that's 100% neutral we can pretty much disregard all information presented by a campaign.

You're kind of moving away from the point I was making - my comment was that neither you or I really know enough about the teachings in Islamic schools to be able to speak with proper authority (I hasten to add that's not a dig of any kind) and you being part of a group that actively campaigns against it is hardly likely to give a balanced view. I'm not saying your group is wrong etc but it would be like Dick Dawkins chairing a debate about whether or not Religion is good for you.

If the BHA found some evidence that keeping faith schools or ensuring RE stayed mandatory I'd have to question whether they would publish it so hastily. Maybe they would, but I'm not so sure.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35755110)

It's a binary statement, Russ. There is no 'balanced view' to be had. Either there are independent schools teaching YEC or there aren't. If they aren't they can sue the BHA for claiming as such and accuse them of faking the evidence indicating they are. They have not.

I'm not moving away in the slightest. I stated a fact and, for some reason, you are trying to say that I am making a point about the teachings in Islamic schools more generally and claiming to be able to speak with 'proper authority'. I wasn't. I merely stated that there are Islamic independent schools teaching the Islamic creation myth as literal scientific fact. Nothing more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

Independent Islamic schools, amongst others, will likewise be teaching YEC.

Step back for a moment. The above was all I said on the matter. This is not even remotely controversial on any level, and I'm not going to defend this statement of fact further or try and defend what you think I wrote over the very simple binary premise I actually put forward.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

If you've missed the point fine, let's move on.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35755110)

If the BHA found some evidence that keeping faith schools or ensuring RE stayed mandatory I'd have to question whether they would publish it so hastily. Maybe they would, but I'm not so sure.

This is entirely irrelevant to the matter. What charities that campaign don't choose to publish has absolutely no bearing on the accuracy of what they do publish.

However just FYI there is no evidence that, based on the demographics of incoming students, faith schools produce any better results than state schools, and the BHA do not advocate the position that RE should be removed from public schools.

The BHA is secularist, not aggressively anti-religious.

---------- Post added at 15:02 ---------- Previous post was at 14:55 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35755115)

If you've missed the point fine, let's move on.

Actually let's not, this is somewhat ridiculous but still.

Let me help you - this is what I've been responding to.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2015/01/4.png

So what am I missing? Have I somewhere claimed to be able to comment on teaching in Islamic schools more widely with authority, or are you saying that I am unable to claim that Independent Islamic schools teach YEC despite there being evidence from said schools, themselves, that they do?

EDIT: I should mention that this isn't all of them, by any means. In common with 'mainstream' Christianity 'mainstream' Islam actually believes the Qu'ran is supported by modern science in this regard and that evolution is on the whole quite compatible with their faith. There are, of course, the extremists who disagree and that's the rub there.

Sorry, but you have missed the point by claiming I said something I didn't. I made a very specific, evidence backed claim about such institutions however for some reason you are claiming I made a broader claim and claimed that I have no evidence to back up my original statement.

Russ - I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Let me move onto some evidence.

The below quote refers purely to state schools incidentally:

Quote:

But Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra, from the Muslim Council of Britain, said: "Faith schools are by and large established to enforce the religious teachings of our lives, and the theory of creation is one of the cornerstones of our faith.

"To expect faith schools not to teach this kind of religious teaching is unreasonable, but I also think it is important for faith schools to teach science to children as well so they are aware of modern day findings and can use the information to ask further questions and strengthen their faith.

"I don't believe any religious teaching prevents people from being creative and independent in their thinking."

From the prospectus of a free school and part of the reason for this thread:

Quote:

"In each and every department, all efforts will be geared towards ensuring the books and resources conform to the teachings of Islam. Sensitive, inaccurate and potentially blasphemous material will be censored or removed completely. If and when teachers are required by the curriculum to convey teachings that are totally against Islam (such as Darwinism), the Director of Islamic Studies will brief the relevant teachers and advise accordingly."

As noted above the Islamic mainstream is that Darwinism is not against Islam as they hold to an old Earth view, the Qu'ran not actually covering creation in the depth the Bible does.

Going elsewhere from the Accelerated Christian Education curriculum:

Quote:

“Biblical and scientific evidence seems to indicate that men and dinosaurs lived at the same time…. Fossilized tracks in the bed of the Paluxy River near Glen Rose, Texas, also give evidence that men and dinosaurs existed simultaneously. Fossilized human footprints and three-toed dinosaur tracks occur in the same rock stratum…. That dinosaurs existed with humans is an important discovery disproving the evolutionists’ theory that dinosaurs lived 70 million years before man. God created dinosaurs on the sixth day. He created man later the same day.”
ACE, Science 1099, p. 29.

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“scientific evidence proved the Darwinian theory of evolution was false” (Science 1107, p. 23)

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“No branch of true science would make these kind of impossible claims without proof. Because evolutionists do not want to believe the only alternative – that the universe was created by God – they declare evolution is a fact and believe its impossible claims without any scientific proof!” (Science 1107, p. 24)

Quote:

The nuclear fusion theory of how the sun emits heat and light is an invention of evolution scientists… All other theories require the sun to use up all its energy sooner than the evolutionists’ invented timetable would allow. Pages 7-9 of Science 1096

if you feel like having a child indoctrinated with this nonsense here's a non-exhaustive list of schools teaching it.

http://www.christian-education.org/s...ol/uk-schools/

TLDR: Independent schools across multiple faiths can, and do, teach YEC at very least as an alternative to, if not entirely instead of, cosmology, evolution and an old Earth.

These are fundamentalist points of view in their faiths in many cases, and at odds with scholastic interpretations of their holy texts and/or mainstream views and reconciliation of faith with modern science.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

Carl - grow up. You're not going to agree with me and I'm not going to agree with you. You've missed my point several times and I'm pretty certainly you'll continue to do so, intentionally or otherwise.

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

hey watch where your chucking that dummy it nearly hit me

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35755130)

I'll come back to this thread in a few days and see if this part of it makes any more sense. :tu:

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35754898)

Corrected that for you ;)

So these are all theories? :D

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary L (Post 35362507)

And a lot more nuttier too. which unfortuantely is part of the problem.

Unfortunately, some of the nuttiest are politicians. This guy denies man made climate change because...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...8&d=1422220179

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler (Post 35755188)

Unfortunately, some of the nuttiest are politicians. This guy denies man made climate change because...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...8&d=1422220179

That's what happens when you go "full retard" :D

Re: Government withdraws funding for schools that teach Creationism

Would you Adam and Eve it.