Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

I know, but he is also trotted out as a "scientist"

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

Yep I agree, but unlike most of the other substances its actually got some positives. Incidentally the strongest patch we prescribe is a 25mg one which delivers 25mg over a 24 hour period. In Oz, they sometimes treble this - but it depends on the smoker in the first place.

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

Why? The government couldn't find support for their decision to reclassify cannabis back to a class C drug. The experts employed to advice the government strongly advised against it. The police were happy not to have to deal with cannabis as well.

Populism was the main motivator behind the decision. On what grounds do people have to make cannabis a serious drug?

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

He is though.

The issue the government are complaining about here is that Dr Nutt is moving into the political arena. Its a bit hard to Lord Winston not to as he sits in the HoL.

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

More to the point:

What's the purpose of having a drug classification system if it doesn't reflect the relative dangers of different drugs?

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

Well exactly. There was no reason other than populism to reclassify the drug. That is no way to dictate drug policy.

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

Well exactly, he's a labour lord and is speaking out against the government, unless I misread your post. If he has a bias it would be against it.

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

Because science isn't the only factor here.

Say if you banned cigarettes and legalised cannabis purely on the science that cigs are more harmful than spliffs.

Suddenly you'll have a lot of upset smokers who are dying for a fag and will pay for it. People will then start smuggling cigs to keep up with demand. Before long large swathes of the public are getting drug convictions to support a habit that has run into decades and gang warfare has exploded on the streets.

Scientists are there to advise policy on drugs. They aren't there to set it. The final say always lies with the politicians who have to take in all factors be it medical, social, financial. The social and financial experts may be advising against the prohibition on cigs.


OK, you've lost me. What was the point you are making?

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

I wasn't really making a point. Just saying that circumstances would suggest that in this instance Winston is being honest and should be listened to.

Or of course you could read all the research papers oneself but who has the time for that? I don't.

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

The classification system isn't designed to tell you how harmful a drug is and the government found plenty of support for their decision to reclassify amongst the public. What makes these people experts, the amount of people they treat for addiction or the ability to read stats and do tests.

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

An Education and experience as opposed to what they read I guess.

For example the advisor in question (whose creditability as an expert is in doubt):

I would rather listen to him than 'the public'.

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

The public aren't stupid, I assume you are one of them on this subject. Nice example of his experience there, sitting in offices and giving lectures, wonder if he has ever treated anyone for drug addiction, no thought not, I doubt anyone with first hand experience would agree with him.

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

I doubt anyone with experience of losing people to lung cancer caused by smoking or alcohol poisoning would agree that those substances are better than cannabis. It is of course going to skew your overall perception of any issue if you have first hand, emotional, experience with it.

He is however an expert on addition and the effects of drugs on the human body. He constructed a list of all substances irrespective of their legal classification and found tobacco and alcohol, amongst others, were worse than cannabis. Hence he questioned why cannabis was reclassified against their advice. I think we know that the reason was nothing to do with public safety and was more to do with public perception of being 'tough'.

Incidentally I am a member of the public, one who is not an expert. I feel that people with a lot more experience and knowledge of the subject have a more valid opinion than my own on matters in which they are experts on. I don't want people like me deciding policy on issues I am ill-educated on.

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

By first hand experience I mean those that actually deal with the effects of drug addiction on a day to day professional basis, not some one who sits in an office or lecture hall all day, they are the ones whose opinion I value and I am cetain they dont agree with the prof Nutt.

Re: Truth hurts, eh!?!?
 

" He is however an expert on addition and the effects of drugs on the human body. He constructed a list of all substances irrespective of their legal classification and found tobacco and alcohol, amongst others, were worse than cannabis. Hence he questioned why cannabis was reclassified against their advice. I think we know that the reason was nothing to do with public safety and was more to do with public perception of being 'tough'."


You can add to " The public Perception of being tough " with the fact that the Government get no profit from the dealer on the street corner or drug house or your local ice cream vender.
They would not soil their hands with such money, but they will have the excrement on their hands from the proceeds from tobacco and alcohol without a second thought.
Lets see how tough they are, lets see how much they care about the nations health, I will only believe it when they totally outlaw tobacco and alcohol, actions speak louder than words I am affraid.