Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

No disrespect intended but I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I can see you’re clearly trying to say *something* however it seems it’s way over my head :confused:

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Not only you Russ, I have a problem making out half of what his banging on about.

Here come the assumptions again, is the above supposed to be some sort of couched threat?:shocked: I shall "shout bigot" towards the likes of Mrs Robinson whenever she makes such homophobic statements, irregardless of your threats to close my "happy little world". Obviously you have some real issues with gay people, so much so you have tried in your previous post to claim Mrs Robinson could be making these remarks because she has suffered at the hands of gay people, once again I say total speculation. She made those remarks from a religious stand point, not from abuse, and no matter how many words you use to try to confuse the issue those are the facts.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

It is not ludicrous, there is no ambiguity in the definition of 'bigot' if that was the case then everyone is nothing but a bigot to some degree including yourself.

You can have a bias in an opinion of which may be well informed or not and even if its ill informed it holds reason to the formation of the opinion, if you can shoot down the reason then fine I am sure you would get a retraction of that opinion unless another valid reason was then discovered.

As Iris Robinson is claiming to be working with a counsellor on these issues who in turn claims to be working with people who have been affected by the gay community in one way or another I dare say unless this is an outright lie, she has some experience in the issue, in which case her opinion while it may be bias for whatever reason is by definition not bigotry. For anyone to try to asume she is at the minimum not in touch with people who have been affected in some way by the gay community or has some form of professional guidance on the matter is either being derived from total ignorance or the desire to sweep that part under the carpet out of pure convenience, I am in no doubt she has some experience on the matter, to what extent I could really careless, thats for her to reveal if she should decide to do so, either way her experience and her religous beliefs are undeniably able to reinforce each other. Now please show us all where she states she has formed this opinion without any reason or experience, you cannot because she has already openly admitted being in touch with a counsellor on this subject during the very radio show this thread and subsequent articles refer to, and at no point has it been indicated this person does not exist, other than that she has no obligation to divulge to anyone just exactly why she is in touch with this counsellor.

It is you who is trying to bring her point of view into disrepute by shouting 'bigotry' without foundation when that is obviously not the case, those of us who are really in the know on this subject will obviously asume the worst of you and with good reason.

When a person has an opinion, it is not possible for any human being to have formed an opinion that carries no bias what so ever, a persons opinion is quite rare some thing thats preconcieved with no experience or reason behind it and to hold no respect for others opinion.

If a person forms an opinion based on others experience which was not actually truthful, this is not bigotry either, it is an ill informed bias opinion based on ignorance of the actual facts.

Many here however are so ignorant to this conception they dont even believe they hold any bias to their own opinions, even though it is not logically possible for a being with a wide variance in its individual mental and emotional make up of which is also affected by its social and domestic enviroment to form one with no bias. Your opinion has bias, it allways will be because it portrays how you feel on a subject so even if thats the only reason for a bias one exists, it is also still very possible to soundly justify the way you feel on a subject without actual personal experience. Even if you declare to be sat on the fence you still have a bias because your sat on the fence for a reason, unless you wish to admit sitting on fences for no reason at all but in that case I would say your opinion on that particular subject is as worthless of one which is truly bigotted as it then also has no foundation.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

She was stupid to air her views as publicly as she did and thats all she isn't representing a view that is unique to her far from it and as many will oppose her view as support it. Only difference is right now in the UK it is all for the opposer's of her and the supporters will silently agree and go about their daily business lest they incur the wraith of the for want of a better term liberal brigade.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Ah, that old thing :D


It's been around since at least 2000, as "Dear Doctor Laura".

"Doctor" Laura Schlessinger is a US radio host, with rather outspoken views on homosexuality...

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Or 'wrath', possibly. Yes, the British media is indeed well known for its liberal views.

Definition of 'liberal brigade', please? 'Anyone who thinks gay people shouldn't be labelled as abnormal due to their sexual preference', perhaps.

The right-wing Thatcher-worshipping Republican-loving Conservative blogger Iain Dale is getting married this weekend, to his male partner. Is he part of the liberal brigade, perchance?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Well, I have been "harassed" by both men and women (obviously when they were blind drunk, but that's neither here nor there ;) ), and I suffer from neither heterophobia nor homophobia.

Nitro, I am sorry that you feel you have suffered from same-sex harassment, and not to minimise any discomfort or long-term anxiety you are still feeling, but what about all the women who get hit on, groped, and otherwise man-handled by men - should they all have a hatred of all men (because you appear to be supporting a one-size fits all prescription).

I have been hit on by gay men, and I look upon it as how women look upon being hit on by straight men - no thanks, thank you for the compliment, but not interested. This has not made me think worse of gay men, otherwise I would have to think the same (imho) of straight men who hit on women.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I've been harrassed by a gay man who saw me keep a bible next to my workstation, and assumed I'd be anti-gay and wanted to see him burn in hell etc - it was quite amusing for a while, watching him have a drama-queen hissy-fit.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Hello, world to Nitronutter:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot

That website gives 10 different definitions of bigotry. Sounds pretty ambiguous to me...

Errm, yes, that's probably why the English language (like all others) has so many words. So we can convey nuances, a concept which apparently is beyond your grasp.

As for the rest of your post. It doesn't make any sense at all... If there's a point you wish to make, could you please state in a few concise sentences?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I have to say I am searching for a point, also, Dan

How many 'bad' experiences with persons in any minority group should define the group ???

- how can anyone with a 'good' experience of someone who is gay reply to such a closed opinion??

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Once again Nitro you've used a million words to say precisely nothing, again. I presume I'm one of the "ignorant", you are referring to, obviously I'm not on your level...but then again I best be quite as you've already warned me about calling Mrs Robinson a bigot, that if I'm not careful you and the other victims of the gay community, might well close quote "my happy little world down". Would you care to elaborate on this threat Nitro, but if you could keep it simple I'd appreciate it...say under a 1000 words without going round the houses.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

You offer up an american dictionary site 'dictionary.com' with 10 alleged entries on the word 'bigot' of which not one entry carries any weight with reference to the real english langauge definition agaisnt the one and only entry from the askoxford.com website based on the oxford english dictionary ?

Some of the entries on dictionary.com are of slang or jargon dictionaries, others from encyclopedias about a person named 'François Bigot' and bear no relevvance at all to the word itself, the rest is either american variations, an interpreters dictionary or personal definitions.

Are you sure your looking for people to take you seriously with that ?

There is no wonder this country is in the state its in if this is the case.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Sorry to be OT, but since when was the OED's definitions the only acceptable definitions of words?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

I did not state the victims might close down your world as you have so kindly tried to indicate I did. Here is the line as in my post:
As you can see that clearly implies that if all the victims of the wider gay community were to stand up to be counted then the effect of that action by all the victims could be disaterous to your happy little world. There is nothing more or nothing less in there, you are of course entitled to interpret it as you see fit but it is quite precise in its wording that there is really no reason to misinterpret it. To make that a little easier for you, if all the silent victims of the gay community that are alive today was to suddenly stand up and march on london tomorrow would you really want to hazard a guess as to what the turn out would actually be ?

Personally I believe from what I know, not just about me but about many of my friends and their assailants some of whom had also been aquaintences in my past it would probably be an unprecadented quantity, and create a record that would be nigh impossible to beat for a long time.

So looking at Iris Robinson's more personal sentiments on the matter from the viewpoint your suggesting, the ones reported to the police, which I will reiterate for you to save you looking them up:

Your saying these have no foundation to them, they do not come from anything other than her, as you call it 'bigotted opinion' which is purely based on her religous beliefs ?

If not then please enlighten me on where you believe them to have been derived from, but if it is the case please enlighten us as to how you believe her religion has managed to instill such a deeply felt and obviously quite sentimental opinions into her.



@ Xaccers please show other english dictionaries from england which are generally acceptable in britain for the purpose of challenging the most well known and most cited english dictionary in the world from england, which has a longer standing publication than most others with whats generally accepted on a global scale as containing the most concise definitions. Coming up with a pile of citations from an american dictionary site most of which bear little to no real relevance to the word itself or its definition and stating there is '10 alternative definitions' is distinclty nothing but a poorly researched twist perhaps to suit ones agenda and is to be frank worthless imo.

It would have been fair enough if there was one acceptable english (as in from great britain) sourced alternative with any stature behind it to consider them but I dont see any that fit that criteria on the page.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling
 

Right... So you are correlating the state this country is in with the fact that I use another dictionary than Oxford, and you are asking me if I expect to be taken seriously????? You (well, anyone but you seem more accurate), couldn't make it up :erm:


Oh, and well done for missing the point completely. :rolleyes: