Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

When the woman behind the news desk after discussing the situation of the engineers then comes out with "well if they're giving out information like that who knows what other information they are giving freely, like secret radio codes" you'd be hard pressed to assign that as a claim from one of the "sides"

Really?
Were you marching against the start of the war, or matching in support of the war but against the lack of exit stratergy?

---------- Post added at 11:19 ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 ----------

I think you'll find the Iraqi's in the south who were Slaughtered under Saddam, and those who he left to starve would dissagree.

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

Would that be the same Iraqi's who were encouraged to "rise up" against Saddam with the promise of support from the then coalition who promptly then turned their backs and left them to be slaughtered?

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

Would that be the coalition who adhered to international law and therefore didn't ultimately give support?
Surely you're not chastising them for following international law, after chastising the current coalition for allegedly breaking international law?
And unless you believe Saddam was justified in slaughtering them, surely you agree that Saddam was responsible for their deaths?

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

i didnt see the repoirt so difficult to comment



i was marching against the war because i felt that we were being taken in on a false premise, that it would destabilise the region, increase the risk of terrorist threat against the uk and result in a great amount of death.

we may disagree about how saddam should have been removed (bearing in mind too that the war was because of the alleged wmd threat, not regime change) but to suggest as punky did that people marched to keep saddam is deeply, deeply insulting.

we are of course digfressing. i opose the execution of saddam firstly because rit replaces acts of barbarism with another and because in executing him they will create a martyr who will act as a recruiting sergeant for insurgency. and you cant kill a martyr so that martyrdom will remain an effective recruiting force for some time to come. imo an execution will hasten a descent into civil war, rather than prevent it.

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

So Amnesty was right then, since the end of the Gulf war and the impositions it imposed on him he was no longer a threat.

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

That about sums it up for me too. I went on the marches for teh same reason. I have no problems with Saddam being disposed and I wanted him out as much as plenty of fellow marchers. I have yet to meet someone who went that wanted Saddam to remain in power.

There had to be other ways of removing the man than Going to war with a country, under false pretenses, which consequently paved the way for a lot more hostility towards the west, as well as causing 100s of 100s of innocent deaths as a result of the war.

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

Bearing in mind the real justification for going to war was Saddam's inadherance to the UN resolutions giving unhindered access for the inspectors, he played cat and mouse and lost which negated the Gulf War ceasefire.

---------- Post added at 11:45 ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 ----------

Unless you really do think he was justified in his actions in slaughtering the shia (which I really don't think you do, at least I hope you don't), how can you say that he was no longer a threat?
Are you seriously suggesting that all Iraqi's were safe from him after the Gulf War?
Are you denying that hundreds of thousands were slaughtered and starved due to Saddam's actions?

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

No, that would be the coalition who, as I said, encouraged the uprising in the south and then abandoned the people.

I'm chastising them for exactly the reason I stated above. Encouraging an uprising has nothing, whatsoever, to do with following international law.

Can you phrase that again please, in english?

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

the debate about the reasons for going to war or otherwise have been done to death on other threads so i'm not about to rehearse my arguments again. i responded only because i felt insulted by the idea that i and others marched in support of saddam. we did not and its an offensive slur to suggest we did.

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

I am not suggesting anything merely quoting Amnesty International, who I might add have been very vocal in reporting past atrocities the regime committed

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

So there is no international law relating to regime change by another nation?
Wow, so what was all the fuss about the second resolution then?


Not supporting that uprising however was.

Can you go back to primary school and learn how to read English please? It tends to help with debates on forums.

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

So, the Shia are "another nation"?

You know full well.

Cause and effect xaccers, cause and effect.

As indeed does a logical line of questioning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34151691) And unless you believe Saddam was justified in slaughtering them, surely you agree that Saddam was responsible for their deaths?

So, by your "logic" if I don't believe saddam was justified then Saddam wasn't responsible for their deaths?

I think we know which of us needs to go back to primary school.

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

So that's 4 reasons that would have ultimately would have kept Saddam in power if governments took notice. If the marchers had there way, the war wouldn't have happened, so Saddam and his sons would still be in power. That's why they marched. Of course you get those who want to sound more honourable... "I don't oppose war, but I wanted the UN to sanction it". Still amounts to the same. UNSC countries were going to veto any resolution specifying violence, so a vote for that is a vote for Saddam in power. You can't oppose the war, but then not oppose the consequences. Its either one or the other.

Also, you can squirm all you like, but if you think Saddam and his sons were just going to walk away and leave a human-rights-observing democracy in their wake, then you are naive. After Saddam, he had 2 even more psychotic and evil sons. Their power satistifed their sick urges. They had several wives each. You think between all them they'd not produce at least one male heir? You think Saddam's sons would make great parents? When would it end naturally? There have been multiple populous revolutions brutally supressed by Saddam.

I am sorry you found my comments insulting, but that's your conscience, not mine.

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 13:22 ----------

Furthermore, I would have preferred Saddam to have been tried by the UN (along with 6-12 other government leaders. Yes, you, China) in The Hague, instead of war. However, 3 things are certainties. Death, taxes, and that the UN will never uphold rights and decency.

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

America has found a new flag for Iraq: http://www.sayagain.co.uk/b3tapix/images/saddamflag.gif

Re: Saddam To Be Hanged
 

The United States is, and don't you believe under international law it is illegal for a foreign nation to overthrough a regime?

Yes, I do, France and Russia wanted to get as much money as possible from Saddam, after all, they're the biggest suppliers of weapons to him, and Germany couldn't afford to go to war so in an attempt to gain public support at home, they chose not to take action.

Yes, the cause was ousting a dictator, the effect was international law got in the way.


Definitely you.
If you believe Saddam was justified, then the responsibility lies with the shia for uprising, however if you don't believe he was justified, then the responsibility lies with Saddam.
My deepest appologies, I didn't realise that you couldn't understand simple logic unless explained in many little words, I'll remember that for future reference.