Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

Yes it was

a) I have not mentioned religion.

b) I am not saying my views are how the world should be. I'm not trying to change any law or influence anyone. I'm just giving "my views".

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

Sorry Punky, but that is nonsense. I'm getting married and I am a staunch Atheist. Marriage is a civil as well as religious affair, and as far as I'm concerned they have little to do with each other. I certainly will not be going through a religious marriage.

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

:notopic:
But how would you feel when she is older if she came home and announced to you she was gay? Do you think she would even be able to tell you? knowing your views?
:notopic:

Well Russ, in my eyes that is one of the most evil and backward things one can do with thier lives :p: :LOL: :Peaceman: :jk:

I agree but Im thinking for the threads sake maybe we should keep the two at a safe distance? You know how long, aggressive and off topic these threads tend to get :) We will be talking about evolution and the existance of mythical invisable unicorns in no time :D

I was thinking that myself.

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

At the end of the day the only reason being gay was made legal in the first place was because of blackmail offences.
What do we legalise next because of blackmails or even "out of court settlements"

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

A rose by any other name.

So following on from that, we go back to those women that have children because they want a council flat or just plain want a child and can't look after them. Would you advocate compulsory abortion like OB mentioned to "save" the children from a life of neglect?


My own personal view on the subjects raised are that itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s great Spain have legalized Gay marriage and I think the political parties here should get on with sorting it out. As for adoption it's not something that would affect me as we wouldn't want children. Saying that, I think it's shocking that many religious people (not all by a long shot but many) think it's acceptable to influence others lives because of their own convictions.

If we're still permitted to mention religion, I think it's a fraud, but I do uphold others right to believe what they like so long as it doesn't influence my life in ANY way.

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

If I was anti-gay and sickened by the thought if it etc then she may find it difficult to tell me. However by the time she's at the age where she can honestly say she knows her own sexuality, she'll know me better than that.
__________________

Plus the rose would not be planted in a church? Check your PMs btw.

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

Never a man of my word, I will now re-enter the topic (for now):

I just want to clear something up

Gay Marriage- I have no problem with gay couples, I have no problem with that. What I possibly reject to is the term 'Marriage'. This is because it is seen by religious followers as a union between a man and a woman. A government cannot make laws regarding to religion. Church and state, they MUST be kept separate. Spain should not decide that gay couples can get 'married', only the church should do that as marriage is a religious term. What the state can and should do is allow civil unions. That has all the same laws and advantages of marriage only without that term, that respects the rights of gay couples without telling the church what to do on religious issues. Leave marriage to the church.

Gay adoption - I do not have any idea on this. They should be allowed to have the rights of a normal couple, on the other hand I do not know the other side. I do not know the affect on the child, i do not know what that child will think when he/she grows up. This is a very complex issue that none of us can really understand until more studies are taken. There is a rights issue, but then there are the rights of the child and the effect on that child.

These two things are different, the union between gay couples is between two consenting adults so there isnt a problem there (expect with the term) but the adoption brings a 3rd non-consenting child into the equation. So thats where it gets complex

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

Where is marriage defined as a religious term ?

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

The bible - therefore if christianity is not your inspiration then it doesn't matter.

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

It is the name that causes the problem! If we get rid of the word marriage this whole thing would be sidestepped. The simple word 'marriage' is what brings religion into this.

Same goes the other way, The church doesn't influence us as a state and we as a state do not influence the church. Church and state, keep them separate. Its the best way to avoid ill-feeling and anger

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

But the term marriage far predates christianity, so just because the bible uses this term it doesnt mean they have copyright over it :)

Allthough technically the term marriage doesnt even appear in the bible (appart from translations) as I dont think marriage was a word in the language of the original writers.

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

I think you misread me. I never said they were one-and-the-same, I was actually trying say what you were, (badly, apparently), that the religious side and civil side were created independent, and should be kept away from each other. Of course, and when athiests get married they do it in a registry office, with a civil servant. That is a modern alternative to the tradition of marriage. We call it marriage, but this isn't what marriage was concieved as hundreds, or rather thousands of years ago.

You don't have to go to church, perform the declaration under God, and swap the bahns. That's been what marriage was long before marriage certificates, registry offices, and tax breaks became a part of the marriage. Everyone goes through the civil part of the marriage, which is the signing the license. Anything else is optional.

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

Hence I said, if it's not your inspiration....etc :)

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

Daniel, go and get a history lesson... Who heads the state? The Queen. How do you think, for so many centuries, heads of States (kings, queens etc) made decisions about how the country was run? Religion!!!!!! :rolleyes:

So, what do you do. Give a child to a family that want's it, or leave it in a temporary unstable home until the law thinks the 'right' kind of couple comes along?

Re: Wonder what the new Pope thinks of this!!
 

Well that has to be a rhetorical question. I think (I hope) you're indulging in a little reduction to absurd-but-logical conclusion here, because I know you wouldn't advocate such compulsory abortion and I think I know that you don't think I would advocate it ... :spin: ... however, I don't think your reduction is valid because my starting point is the rights of and the protection of the child, and I think abortion is a fundamental abuse of the rights of the child. 'Nuff said about abortion though, that's another thread all by itself.

I completely respect your right to have a view, and to live your life according to that view. However on the matter of religious people influencing the lives of others, well I'm afraid it comes with the territory. Christianity is an evangelistic religion. It makes claims to absolute truth, i.e. the universe is a certain way, and this requires a certain response from everyone who lives in it, and it places on believers the obligation to share that truth with the whole world. If I could indulge in a little logical reduction myself, if it weren't for Christians trying to influence the lives of others, we would still have a slave trade and children would still be going out to work at the age of five instead of going to school. ;)