Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Shouldn't be too compllicated if you follow the details on the CAG forums, mine went:

1) Subject access request
2) Letter asking politely for charges back (template on CAG)
3) Response from RBS saying bugger off
4) Opened case with moneyclaim (again using template from CAG)
5) RBS settled 2 weeks later

If you don't get a response (i.e. point 3), you might need to leave it 7 days and send a "Letter Before Action" (again, template on CAG) confirming that as you've heard nothing you're going to proceed with the small claims track.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Best docu bbc have made for a long time I think, shame it was on bbc2 instead of bbc1. Given the way that oft chief exec was talking it does look like legislation is imminent on this against the banks especially now the bbc are involved, but I think they will get a figure higher then £12.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Highly unlikely given that penalty charges in respect of consumer contracts are illegal.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

you think they will conclude it costs the same to adminstrate bank account penalties as credit cards? I would be surprised if they do.

penalty charges are legal but they supposed to be non profitable.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I've just had a letter today from British Gas advising that they too are introducing a late penalty fee for customers :erm:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Typical of them really, they jump on the gravy train just as it is about to hit the buffers :rolleyes:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I'm sorry but I genuinely cannot fathom any logic from what you are asking. You need to revisit the OFT statement of April this year (see the quote / excerpt below). John Fingleton put it on the line to the banks last night when he advised them, and their mealy mouthed Trade Association spokeswoman, "We are prepared to litigate on this matter".

I'm sorry but you are mistaken.

Penalty charges in consumer contracts are illegal - full stop. Liquidated losses (or pre-estimates of the costs involved in addressing a breach of contract) such as those to which you refer are legal as long as they only represent the actual costs incurred. There is a very distinct difference.

Given that not one bank in the UK is prepared to either have their cost structure analyzed or justified in a court of law then it is entirely safe to conclude, as evidenced on the TV last night, that they are penalty charges levied in respect of a contract breach.

That is why the BBC go to the bother of making documentaries, why the banks have never defended a single claim in court and why the OFT couched it's words when saying "....and a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the threshold.�

It helps the consumers case, somewhat, when companies shoot themselves in the foot by declaring something to be a "late payment fee". Quite how they might hope to assert that this represents anything other than a penalty charge is beyond me - and the best financial legal minds in the British isles.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. People need to stop believing the mantra of "banks and companies wouldn't do things like this if they weren't legal". Last night's programme showed, quite succinctly, that they do and will continue to do so unless enough people assert their rights.

The banks cannot, reasonably, expect people to believe that they, armed with teams of lawyers, are shying away from court confrontations and refunding monies out of the goodness of their hearts. Kieron from Matrix Chambers hit the nail on the head when he said he does not believe that they can defend their cost structures in court as reasonable administrative charges. They have been caught stealing money from people and there are those who are minded to ensure that justice is done as we would expect in any such similar criminal case of theft.

They've been stealing money and people are getting / claiming it back. Fact.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

and I quote

"Important Change to your Terms and Conditions

From 1st March 2007, British Gas will be introducing a late payment charge of £5 for late-paying customers, an approach similar to that taken by many credit companies where payment is late

British Gas bill you for your energy after you have used it. Therefore, when you receive your bill we expect you to pay it promptly. While most British Gas customers pay their energy bill on time, a small proportion of our customers consistently pay late, which results in costly follow-up procedures.

If we receive payments by the "Please pay by" date shown on your bill then you won't be affected by this change.

However, after 1st March 2007, if you fail to pay your bill within 28 days of the bill date a £5 charge for late payment will be automatically added to the outstanding amount of your bill.

The £5 charge represents our additional costs when a customer has not paid a bill within 28 days of the bill date."

and so on including the usual waffle about paying by DD is the most convenient method of payment, the bold bit is my contribution about how they seem to be jumping on the bandwagon.

I am absolutely furious as I haven't had a bill from them for my electricity supply since May, they state how they expect their customers to pay promptly but when the shoe is on the other foot, they can't produce a bill promptly. I've a mind to send them a bill for a late bill production fee and see how they sodding well like it :mad:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Marge,

Many thanks.

I would suggest that receipients of this missive write to BG asking for an exact breakdown of the charge in order that they might ask the OFT's opinion of same.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Good idea, I got the letter, today, too, and while it is unlikely to affect me, due to everything being done DD, it may be politic to let them know we are aware of these things, now ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Makes me glad I have card meters for both gas & electric. Now if only someone could get NTL to drop their ridiculous non-DD payment fee...

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

May I suggest that those with BG still take a look at http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cgi...03281560,22751,

You could switch and save money and earn either £20 or a bottle of bubbly jsut for moving provider.

Martin goes through it on the site but if you're moving from BG you're almost guaranteed to save. :)

Maybe this will be incentive enough for people to take a look around. :D

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Then you are disagreeing with the bbc and the consumer action group site, not saying you are wrong just saying that they are saying that penalty charges are not allowed to xceed the cost of admisitrating the charge, which means in affect you can do a penalty fee but it has to be in line with costs.

Considering they reduced credit card fees to £12 this backs that up.

If fees are illegal full stop then why were the credit card fees reduced instead of removed.

Why did the bbc goto the trouble to do an experiment on how much it costs to bounce a cheque when its not even relevant?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I am not disagreeing with anyone, I'm simply stating a fact. "Administrative charges" are "administrative charges" up to the point that they exceed the "administrative costs" whereby they become a "penalty charge".

With all due respect we've been round the houses on this one. The OFT gave it's opinion on cc charges, not the definitive law on same. Had the OFT said it considered the threshold of £6.00 to be fair then the banks would have reduced it to £6.00 . Again I refer you to my quote from the OFT ""....and a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the (our suggested) threshold (of £12.00).�

There is a very real difference between the opinion of a Government body and the law - which is why John Fingleton worded his statement in that fashion.

As for the cheques - they are one of the few processes left in banking which require "human intervention" which is quantifiable as an administrative cost.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I've asked this before in another thread (and someone's brought this up in this one): I'd be interested in your opinion on the non-DD charges that NTL (and other companies) charge. From what you say above I conclude that, where they are deemed to exceed the actual administrative cost, they would be considered penalty charges, and therefore be illegal.

Seeing that NTL will happily apply a £5 non DD charge for a Broadband account @ £17.99 pcm (roughly 30% of the total charge), it appears to me that they either: have incredibly inefficient billing procedures, or are extracting the urine and have found a little money spinner which may turn out to be illegal.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

If it was a discount for paying by direct debit I think they would get away with it.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

You're probably right. They might not look as good in price comparisons though...

Fact is though, it is a DD charge, not a discount to DD payers, and £5 a month -every month-, seems excessive to me.

How the hell can you justify charging people £5 a month for choosing an alternative method of payment when they provide a service which requires an extensive hardware network, maintenance, planning, as well as billing? I don't know what the average punter pays NTL each motnh, but i suspect £5 is a significant percentage.

I pay by DD btw (always have), so it doesn't affect me at all. It just looks like daylight robbery to me, and I'd be interested to hear about the legalities of it.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The exact same methodology applies though the contract terms (where direct debit is stipulated - as is the case with the majority of BB accounts) would hold considerable relevance. It could, however, still be construed as an unfair term in the contract for those who don't pay by direct debit as they are being charged £5.00 more for an identical service whether they pay or not.

Either way - if someone writes to NTL to ask for an exact breakdown of the charge I'd be very surprised if they got an answer detailing same. On that basis alone I'd suggest they would be as equally uncomfortable / vulnerable as the banks were someone to threaten litigation.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Ok I think there has been a misunderstanding then, I was calling it a pentalty fee when I meant admin fee. So its legal to charge for the admin costs involved but not legal to add anything on top for profit and penalise the customer.

OFT made banks reduce their credit card 'penalty' fees to £12 and i was curious if they would set the bank fees to the same level since if it was set to the same level it would be hard to see how credit card late payments can cost as much as bouncing cheques.

I would love for them to go one step further and stop the banks taking time to clear cheques and make them instant or at least same day clearance since its done electronically now.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Yes, exactly. Where they are falling down is that they refuse, point blank, to be drawn into a court and asked to account (no pun intended) for the administrative element of the fees. Given that the industry is now highly automated I suspect that the "human intervention" element is minimal so, in essence, we could be talking pence as opposed to pounds (heavily discounted postage rates / discounted letterheads, envelopes fully automated mail merge etc etc.).

The OFT didn't actually make anyone do anything - they simply expressed an opinion which, all things considered, the banks are secretly delighted with as it means that many of them still get to recoup 50% of what they'd previously been charging illegally.

The illegality of penalty charges is beyond doubt but until such time as a bank gets hauled into court to explain their charge structure they will attempt to fob off customers with "we disagree with the OFT findings". The OFT findings are irrelevant - the law is what will make or break this case and that my friend is why the banks run away like a big running away thing when it looks like the customer will not back down.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The fee is not illegal per-say, but if all they have done in the first instance is print some extra text on your next month bill reminding you that your account is 30 days overdue then how much has this cost. It has not cost more paper, it has not cost more postage, all it has cost is the programming development time to add and thest that if / then loop to the statement rendering application.

If they are sending out additional reminder letters then there are directly calculable production costs, of paper envelopes, toner postage, but this is probably printed on surplus statement rendering capacity so is there a cost of buying more printing and distribution capabilitlity that they can allocate as a fixed cost - probably not, but there are the staff and cost per unit maintainance.

Then there is the team of bodies that call up etc, that probably costs more money and can directly be attributed to late payers, but they do not kick in on day one, probably nearer day 60.

I would see the 30 day late fee dropping considerably, along with the interest rate on the card escalation (common in the US) as you are now considered a higher risk. So they will claw back the loss of the 'penalty fee' by increasing your interest charge (and you can bet that increase will be more).

I can also see that as the account becomes more delinquent, the fees will increase as the bank can justify that now the letters and the call center is calling the account holder.

My :2cents:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

it seems only the barrister used the right terms in the program, its unlawful (not illegal [theft) unless you can find the board member or accounts person that actioned the higher cost charge perhaps).

some things to remember, the bbc special panel said that they could NOT get the cost of direct debit ANY HIGHER than £2.50 MAXIMUM.

that, direct debit is tantermount to a CASH PAYMENT in uk law, so if your being charged more for cash payments then its perhaps unlawful too.

regarding the BBC program , i was rather disapointed in that he could have put the banking code of practice to the woman and asked the question , given that the govt have instructed that all govt/state benefits be payed into your members products, how is it that your members (I.e the banks) are taking bank charges out of these accounts when the UK 'BlueBook' laws expressly forbid you to take these moneys in charges....

how could she possibly brush that aside on public TV and not have some MPs instantly try and get some soundbites and find a way to push the whole charges thing to front and center....

(can we upload a binary file .ts to the board if so how? as i have a 1.35 second clip of that bbc panel)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Rar/Zip it and attach it to a post :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

funny iv never seen that option before down there LOL
rar/ziping wont get it down in filesize , so ill try renaming it.zip seeing as they dont seem to have
a generic binary option set.

i couldnt be bothered to re-encode it to AVC to get the size down but you can stuff it through MPC or VLC to play it just fine as is , might need to rename it and take the .zip off the end first.

hmm i watched it upload but i cant see it here?.
it seems their upload limit is way to small , i might take the time to AVC encode it after all and try again later perhaps.

well i tryed, i got it down to an 8th of its original mpeg2.ts size , now 5.7 meg and i still cant seem to upload it...
i didnt try and get it down any more as a simple single pass vlc transcode to AVC inside an mp4 wrapper/container should be easy to use, i can get it down even more but its not werth messing about with shell/cli encoding for this small clip, arr well...

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

got it down to 4.3 meg but still not allowed that size

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Good morning all,

would just like to give a breif update on my ongoing saga with the halifax.

I was going through my online banking a few days ago and realised i'd made a bit of a mistake in my orginal letter, i put in a complaint for just over £200 worth of bank charges, but actually the amount was just over £800.

anyway it was late so i left it, so i could deal with it in the new year as i really didnt want to be onto the bank and waste my holidays.

So this morning i get a letter from the nice but ever so slightly patronising man from customer relations. From the beginning it doesnt look good, explaining how they inccur charges because of me etc etc and how its my responsibility and so on.

Then to my surprise at the bottom of the letter in the very last paragraph it says as a gesture of good will i would like to offer you a refund of £840. as im sure you can imagine as soon as i regained conciousness i was over the moon!

Im even tempted to drive to leeds and hand deliver the acceptance form.

As a side not i just realised as i was typing this that I have already had one of the charges removed before as I wasn't happy for being charged £20 for going overdrawn my pennies for a few hours, so they have refunded that charge to me twice now!:D

Finally would just like to thank everyone that has helped in this saga, I would have definatley given up long ago otherwise.
And for everyone that is thinking its not worth the hassle like i did, it cost me the time to write two letters and asking some advice on here, i think its worth it.

:tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Congrats, mate - it is good you got your money back.

Must be the season of good will :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

It would be good if we could get an insider's view of this situation...

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Lost&confused.

Well done - told you it was "easy peasy".

Russ - By that do you mean a bank employee?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Well done............

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Upload it on Turbo Upload and then post the link :)

http://turboupload.com/

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Yes.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

It would be good - but highly unlikely. We know what happens NTL emps who discuss company policy on here and I'm sure the banks, bless 'em, would be even more trigger happy.

Ah well.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I went about £4 overdrawn recently, for which I was charged £20 - and they added an extra £30 because it was a Direct Debit that pushed the account into the red. I made a bit of a miscalculation in my finances. I feel like I've spent most of my life battling the powers that be. I'm tired of it - all very depressing.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

cheers for that link, it wouldnt let me upload and get the url earlyer but it worked now, its not great quality with some blocking but at 624 x 352 298kbps its not bad for my first try at super low encoding for an AVC (MEncoder264).

heres the link to the 1.35 second special bbc panel section clip of the banking program.

http://d.turboupload.com/d/1336729/2....x264.zip.html

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Well done :tu: :tu:
Although the banks will not admit it, this is the reason behind them increasing their interest charges in their credit cards, there are more and more claims going in, the banks ( if they went to court ) would have to prove it was a reasonable charge.
There is a guy in this area claiming against three banks/building societies, looks like santa will be calling ;)

---------- Post added at 12:29 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------


Talking about " clawing back the penalty fee " I had a nice letter a few months ago letting me know, they were the words used, that they ( virgin ) were increasing my interest rate to 24% I recollect, but again their words, you dont need to do anything else, I thought for a moment flipping cheek, never a late payment, no overspends.
So I called them to complain, csa goes off the phone for a moment, " ok on this occasion we can drop that to 19.5 % "
Forget it I said abruptly, give me the contact details for complaints, again the csa begs my pardon a moment, comes back with " ok, your interest rate will stay as it is, and you will receive conformation of this in the post "
I am all for people getting money back they're owed but it will be clawed back as shown here by virgin.

---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

So as such, are NTL late payment fees legal? for any matter any companies late payment fees? unless they can prove to a court how they calculate them to be reasonable?

---------- Post added at 12:38 ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 ----------


Maybe you can save them the bother of sending you the money by letting them know that any such future fees will be reclaimed through the small claims court.;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Exactly.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

:drunk: :ghugs: :hyper: :cleader:
This deserves to go in the happy thought thread.

Today I received a Letter from Neil Mckirdy of Yorkshire bank containing a cheque for £1067 for charges claimed agaist my current account. Was 14 days (or so - xmas post) since I posted the bbc letter in as well.

I'm well chuffed (as was the missus :naughty: )

This gives the green light to have a shot for our joint account as well as other accounts. I also am not due back in work till the 2nd so have a mega amount of time to write up some nice letters.
I'd like to thank all the contributers to this thread, without thier support and sage advice I would never have started this process despite seeing it elsewhere.

Thany you thank you thank you.

I might have me a rep fest.... :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Handyman, congratulations - a nice little "bonus" at this time of year.

Well done.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Get your backside in gear and get it done, i'll give you a hand if needed .

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Well done HM - I'm really pleased for you. It's great to hear that people you know are benefiting from this too. :D

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Good to hear you had a result, Iam certainly going to pester my wife into sending a letter or two, I hate to think what she has paid in charges over the last six years

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I've paid quite a few charges to Barclays over the years, so I'll be considering action in the new year.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

You'll be hearing from me in the new year :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Well all is not as great as it might have seemed. I assumed that the £1067 was against a claim of £1200 so I asumed that they had given me most of it back (giddy with the cheque in my hand) the letter stated that it was tendered without admission of liability and in full and final settlement of my cliam, cashing the cheque would be taken as my acceptance.

Now after looking up a copy of the letter I see thast my claim was for £2159 and I feel a bit stupid for casing it in giddyness.

I'm not overly bothered if I have messed up but I was thinking could I send them a letter saying thank you for your part payment cover x to x date. Money for dates x to x comes to £1092, given your part payment I'll be prepared to extend a further 14 days terms for payment of the remainder.

Do you think they will buy it?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Go for it, you have nothing to lose and over £1000 to gain :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I think I'll be having a go with Barclays in the new year :D

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Normally they get you to sign something to confirm you understand rather than just say that cashing the cheque will confirm you understand.

Mr Angry will be your man but from what I've read of other cases I think they're on a sticky wicket.:)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

it could work, with mine i had to send a letter back confirming that i agreed that they were not in the wrong and that it was just a goodwill gesture that happened to be the exact same amount as all the bank charges i have ever recieved and that i understood that any future charges at the newly reduced rate would be liable on the account.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I'm afraid it was a big mistake on your part agreeing to that.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

i did wonder weather i should sign it when it came through the post, but as soon as i get that money into my account, im off to another bank anyway.
Anther bank wouldnt be able to use that against me would they?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

No, certainly not. However, given the current state of panic in the banking world over this many are changing the wording of their service agreements so you may encounter a similarly worded caveat in any new banking agreement which you enter into.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Which is why the guy who started this whole thing rolling advises people to take out a new account first, then put the claim in.
As for agreeing that they ( the bank ) were not in the wrong, ( who can decide this now? ;) ) :erm:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The advice to open new accounts prior to claiming was to have a safety net if the respondent elected to close the claimant's account in the event of a successful claim for refund. The "future charges at the newly reduced rate" clause only became a tactic on the part of the banks after the April 6th OFT report.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Thanks ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Welcome:)

reclaim bank charges
 

Thank you for the article on reclaiming Bank Charges I redeemed £400

Re: reclaim bank charges
 

Well done :-)

Going for another batch myself shortly.

Re: reclaim bank charges
 

I'm doing the paperwork for a neighbour at the moment...

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

just a quick update, had the money mentioned in previous post transferred into my account today!:beer::beer::beer::beer::)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Congratulations l&c :handshake :hyper:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

My bank have just charged me a total of £60 for going overdrawn for a total of 2 days by about £5.

I am sure over the last few years LloydsTSB have had a lot of money off me. I really should look through and work out how much exactly it is and write to them.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

its 100% worth it

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Shabby decided to only refund part of my charges as a "Gesture Of Good Will" so i went to the FOS. They settled 100% after a few Months but tried to close my account so that i couldn't get at my money. The FOS threatened them with legal action and i now have paid off my overdraft and £1,225.90p to spend :)

I was thinking of buying a Ford Capri but then i realised i can't drive :(

Seriously, try the FOS before you part with any money for court action. People say that they're a toothless tiger but they came up trumps for me :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

To luckybleeder i had already settled for the £400 still i know next time;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Just found this on the BBC news site.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6261405.stm

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Had a pamphlet through the door today for a company that has had a 100% success rate in reclaiming unlawful charges. Seems that they can act on a no win no fee basis. I'm not going to post the phone number or address because i might break forum rules but i don't see any problems if i send it by pm but please correct me if i'm wrong?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

You'd be silly to use them. If you can post on here then you're capable of getting them back yourself. :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The reason they've had 100% success rate is quite simple.

Anyone who has gone to the bother of citing consumer contract law and threatened to claim through the courts has had a 100% success rate in reclaiming charges. There is no need, whatsoever, as has been evidenced in this thread, to involve a fee charging 3rd party.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

To Shaun & Mr. Angry - I have followed the advice given on the cag website and i collated all my own information to send and i successfully claimed back my dosh. It's taken me six months, loads of leters n1 court claim and a letter to the fos to sort me out, but i did get what i wanted.

If a third party company is willing to take away all the stress and worry then why not? I hurt my back at work several years ago and i am employing a solicitor on a no win no fee basis with 100% settlement payout. I see little difference between this and the company that i've yet to mention :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The "difference", as you put it, is that penalty charges are illegal - whereas your back injury is a matter of legal culpability. One is already proven in contract law.

As Shaun says, and you have substantiated, if you can post here you can claim.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Although the banks now seem to be fighting back in their typically customer-friendly way against those people who have the nerve to take them to court over unfair bank charges. According to an article in today's Express they are starting to withdraw such people's overdrafts and demanding immediate repayment of the amounts owing.

The Express being The Express, it's not clear how much of this is simply scaremongering on the Express's part but they do quote one named case.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

It's probably entirely true - which is why I always advise claimants to open a new bank account before taking any action.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

What happens if the account is no longer active and the customer has entered into an informal agreement to repay money - what might the bank do in that case? One of my freinds wants to reclaim money but isn't sure what the bank will do if they turn nasty.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Your friend should consider reclaiming the charges (in full) and using the reclaimed sum to offset against any outstanding monies due to the bank.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Would you do this if you are in an IVA, could the bank then back out of the IVA?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Thank you! But can the bank do anything else such as issue court proceedings to recover the outstanding money owed to them? Or will they just honour the existing agreement (which was negotiated and put in place by CCCS) and let it be paid off at the current amount?
PS - I dont' think it's an IVA- just an 'informal agreement'.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The bank cannot "back out" of an IVA (providing the debtor hasn't broken the terms) as it is a legal agreement. If you reclaim the charges and offset them against any monies due under the IVA you are not contravening the monthly / weekly repayment terms (you're simply using money the bank have misappropriated from you to pay off your debt to them earlier).

The bank will not be in a position to issue court proceedings for recovery as long as you have not defaulted on the agreement - see above.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Been lurking & reading this threat for a while now and its inspired me to stand my ground with the West Bromwich, so I thought I would share my tale.

After Xmas (27th) my bank A&L bounced our mortgage DD to the West Brom citing insufficient funds, spoke to the A&L the same day and pointed out that funds were deposited on the same day as the DD went out. They saw the errors of their way and refunded us their "admin charge" of £34.

Then lo & behold the West Brom send a computer generated letter stinging us for £34 as a result of the DD being refused. The missus spoke to them and told them the tale but all we got back was ".....claim it back from your bank then if they have admitted it was their error...." - fantastic customer service.

So, sent the standard letter off to them about charges, I know it was only £34 but its the principle that counts. They replied back saying they would respond within 14 days and then yesterday, they wrote to say that the charge would be refunded but this does not admit liability etc......

So thanks to all for their inspiring stories, it urged me on...

Then I read in the Mail on Saturday (today) about the guy who won £3,400 from RBS, they did not contest it or pay up, so he got a court order to send the bailiffs in. They turned up at his local branch and started to seize equipment to the value, only when the branch manager promise to pay it did they relent.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Hi to all,

I just looked at this thread and it looks to good to be true ??? I am not being down on anybody but banks are a law to themselfs,
However if I can claim my charges back I will try I am with Natwest but I hold no hope, I sent out 3 cheques last month and got charged £114 quid because I was short in my bank any advice

regards
Homer

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The Banks must be or hopefully are getting a bit twitchy now......

:tu:

The Guardian

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Can you imagine the level of satisfaction of being able to walk in to a bank with a shaven headed kuckle-dragger and mark things to be taken away unless they paid up?

One can only DREAM of that....

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Do you think that court judgement will affect RBS's credit rating? :)

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Next are the Inland Revenue

Boy would I get some satisfaction over that.

A step too far maybe :(

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

""Millions of people are being ripped off by their own banks, plunging the poorest deeper into debt. The Office of Fair Trading has failed to act...".

This is where the confusion begins for most people. Many people are under the impression due to the OFT statement of last April that a charge of £12.00 or less is legal - this is not the case. I was one of a number of people involved in the legal lobbying of the OFT to look into these charges and we were decidely disappointed that they proved themselves, in the end, to be toothless.

The OFT, it became clear from the start, was not prepared to expose this racket for what it is because of the potential damage to certain business interests. We have asked, repeatedly, where the OFT arrived at the mythical "£12.00 threshold" fee and they have to date, in much the same way as the crooks who levy such fees, failed to respond with anything beyond "We estimate that....".

The OFT were well aware of the can of worms which had been opened and tried, unsuccessfully, to bring the banks to the table to come to an early resolution. The banks, in their naivety, thought that consumer rights could be trampled on and that those exposing their fraud would be written off as "crackpots" and derided with the usual cries of "But if it wasn't legal...". To a degree they were right. However, we now find ourselves in a very different scenario where banks and other companies are refunding tens of thousands of pounds a day because their previously sacrosanct legal teams know, and have advised them, that the game is up and they have been rumbled as complicit in one of the largest commercial frauds in modern histiory.

The one concession to the lobbying that the OFT did make, under extreme duress I must add, was their inclusion of the caveat "a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the threshold."

They included the above only because two previous precedents in consumer contract law were brought to their attention. The fact of the matter is that once a charge constitutes anything above and beyond the genuine costs of administration it becomes illegal under consumer contract law (this will cover most if not all contracts anyone reading these forae will encounter in their lifetime). If you have been charged a fee in relation to any default or late payment then you should write to the party involved asking for a full explanation of the breakdown, not some sweeping generalization, of that charge. If they, for whatever reason, cannot provide you with this then you can be almost 100% guaranteed that there is an element of profit involved in the charge (ever wondered why charges never consist of a "pence" element?).

Take it to court and, like the many thousands of others before you, you will win.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I was going to ask you did the OFT explain why they refusing to enforce the law but it seems you did already try.

I take it this means now someone has finally gone to court and of course won? Before I heard the banks were just avoiding court.

It seems every regulator including the OFT will only regulate up to a limit and their main remit is to not disrupt large commercial profits, which isnt surprising the very people who set these regulators up wont want a economy problem. :(

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It's a technical win by "default" (oh, the irony). What is interesting is that RBS didn't even come forward with threats of an appeal - Abbey did this in 2005 and I don't think they ever did appeal.

Lots of people have gone to court and won. The issue is that not one bank, card issuer or credit company has appeared in order to defend their charges and therefore the courts award the claimants a default win for their non appearance.

It's a matter of economics for the banks. For every customer who claims a refund there are still many thousands who don't. They'd rather milk the ignorant masses than explain their cost structures in court and lose the banking federations billions - not just annually, but on retrospective claims.

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By going to court I meant actually been in court both parties fighting it out. Has this occured yet?

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That's a shame, would be lovely to send the police after them. :D

I do wish someone would make NTL back down on their non-DD fee, They may only be charging £1.50 over what those experts determined was the maximum justifiable amount, but it adds up over time. [Though it would be nicer if they didn't charge anything at all for not using DD.]

I don't suppose you'd know where I can find a copy of those "BlueBook" laws? I ask as I've been notified of an impending penalty charge by my bank. :(

I used to not have anything bad to say about LTSB, but with this charge they're trying to stick me with those bankers seem to be proving themselves a complete & utter wunch!

My DSS [or DWP as it's now called] payment goes into my bank every other Sunday. On the Friday before I was due to be paid I logged on to LTSB's internet banking site to check my account, only to notice that I'd gone 49p over my overdraft limit [which is only £100 anyway]. I rang up & apologised for going over, & pointed out that there'd be a payment going in on Sunday anyway, but was told that a letter had already been sent out.

Saturday morning I get a letter saying that I was going to be charged £30 for the heinous crime of going a whole bank-breaking 49p over. It also said that I would be charged an additional £30 for each day that the amount I was over increased. I checked my account again, & apparently the Co-op had been a bit slow to send through a charge from Thursday, so my account was now £3.18 over my limit, which by what the letter said means they're going to try & sting me for £60. :mad:

FOS?

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Financial Ombudsman Service ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

:erm: Do you mean the FSA [Financial Services Authority]?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Nope
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Thanks for that, I just had a chat with them on the phone. I also asked about the point Popper brought up, about banks taking charges from accounts into which benefits are paid. The guy told me that this is true if the benefits are the person's only source of income, & the amount the bank wants to charge would constitute a large portion of that income from benefits. As my branch has waived fees a couple of times in the past when I've gone in & talked to them about it, I'm going to try & do that next week. I'd rather not "get their back up", so to speak, by threatening legal action, if I can get it waived without doing so.

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My partner had a direct debit with Hastings Direct but whenhe canceled the account with them they continued to debit me £48 a month for a period or 2 months. Taking me over my overdraft limit. When i finally realised i was overdrawn (one month later when I got a notice of bank charges) The insurance company would not refund me because i was not the account holder and they would not refund me when my partner tried, They claimed that they hadnt taken out the money eventhough i have bank statements.

My bank refused point blank to get the money back and also refused to wave the charges. I did notify them at the time that the charges were unlawfull and that i am entitled to have the money and interest paid back under uk law. However the bank has refused this and has been adding £38 a month charges for 7 months. They have now sent me solicitors letters.

Anyone in this posistion I advise they take their bank to small claims court!! And report them to the OFT.

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Actually, I'd speak to the Financial Ombudsman 1st [see link in TheDaddy's post, 2 posts up]. From what I've read, it seems the FO has more influence/power over banks than the OFT. Plus, I think I saw on the FO site that if you try the legal route 1st & a court finds against you [yeah, I know, unlikely, but still...] then you wouldn't be able to ask the FO for help [at least not on the same case], but if you go to them 1st you could always try the legal method later if you weren't satisfied with the FO's results.

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This is not the process.

Ask the bank for the money back then issue an N1 claim form - The Financial Ombudsman route will more than likely just elongate the process.

Stick to the tried and tested formula. :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Alien, understand this.

YOUR BANK DO NOT LOVE YOU.

You should be reciprocal in that regard.

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OK, I'm gonna do this, enough talking of doing it, I'm doing it, only thing is, I'm a bit bogged down with links etc on the procedure, would there be any chance of an updated set of links, maybe a mod could make them a sticky of sorts to the first post.

Thanks to all parties for their input and advice :tu:

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I know they don't, however I see no need to deliberately antagonise them if I can stop them from taking the money without doing so.

Don't get me wrong, they won't be keeping the money, I just don't want to "play hardball" with them until I have to.

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You're too soft. You'll 'antagonise' them just by asking for you money back, even if you say pretty please etc... At the end of the day, your issue is with a business, not a person, so antagonising someone isn't, or shouldn't be a consideration. They make millions of pounds of profits every year, some of that from charging you and I money they had no right to. Frankly, the banks should be concerned about antagonising their customers, not the other way round!