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Sephiroth

08-05-2025 08:37

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36196263)

What has that got to do with reform?

With a bit of luck, Reform UK will get control of Wales.
I've no idea whether or not they'll solve Wales' problems, but it'll certainly rile one or two forum members who are obviously practising now.

Russ	08-05-2025 08:44

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36196263)

What has that got to do with reform?

I thought we were discussing figures that are "peanuts" and could have done something about homelessness.

---------- Post added at 08:44 ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196267)

With a bit of luck, Reform UK will get control of Wales.
I've no idea whether or not they'll solve Wales' problems, but it'll certainly rile one or two forum members who are obviously practising now.

So, rather than see a perceived change in a country, you'd prefer to see people angry about it.

My apologies, up until now I'd been under the impression you were a grown-up.

papa smurf

08-05-2025 08:47

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196269)

I thought we were discussing figures that are "peanuts" and could have done something about homelessness.

---------- Post added at 08:44 ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 ----------

So, rather than see a perceived change in a country, you'd prefer to see people angry about it.

My apologies, up until now I'd been under the impression you were a grown-up.

so nothing to do with reform, thanks for clearing that up :tu:

Russ	08-05-2025 08:56

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36196271)

so nothing to do with reform, thanks for clearing that up :tu:

Given the number of Tory defectors I think it has more to do with Reform than you’re making out.

So we can only talk about what could have been done to help homeless people when it benefits your precious Reform?

Sephiroth

08-05-2025 09:35

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

I hope that Reform does a better job with the Welsh homeless than your precious Labour. Although - I doubt it.

Russ	08-05-2025 09:38

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196278)

I hope that Reform does a better job with the Welsh homeless than your precious Labour. Although - I doubt it.

I didn’t vote Labour.

Chris

08-05-2025 10:22

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Enough bickering. Back on topic please. Several posts deleted.

Itshim

08-05-2025 12:09

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196267)

With a bit of luck, Reform UK will get control of Wales.
I've no idea whether or not they'll solve Wales' problems, but it'll certainly rile one or two forum members who are obviously practising now.

Plaid cymru are ahead in the last poll , labour with a Welsh name. It will make no difference, same horse different jockey v:rolleyes:

Russ	08-05-2025 12:12

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

If it keeps the Tories and Reform out then it can only be a good thing.

Itshim

08-05-2025 14:06

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196295)

If it keeps the Tories and Reform out then it can only be a good thing.

Love your sense of humour :angel:

Russ	08-05-2025 14:50

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36196304)

Love your sense of humour :angel:

Common sense. Tories have a shining record with corruption and austerity. 14 years I believe it was.

Reform are totally untested and all their ideas are short-terms soundbites aimed at seducing the mainly uneducated.

Better the devil you know.

Sephiroth

08-05-2025 15:40

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196308)

If Labour come good sooner rather than later in terms of the UK's well being, then you're right.

On present economic and immigration record, the two "devils we know" are bad news.

On your point about Reform UK being untested: Fair enough, They have c. 4 years to make the local councils work better in terms of budgets and local services and tackling homelessness. If they fail there, we'll have three "devils we know" and we might as well emigrate - if we can.

Russ	08-05-2025 15:59

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196311)

On present economic and immigration record, the two "devils we know" are bad news.

I had no idea you were in Wales, well you learn something new each day.

Hugh	09-05-2025 09:03

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

From the Economist

https://archive.ph/gZS15

Quote:

Reform’s policies add up to an agenda of fiscal recklessness that rivals, and may well exceed, the disastrous 49-day, hair-raising, market-tanking premiership of Liz Truss in 2022.

Reform’s manifesto from the 2024 election is a starting-point. The party has since crab-walked away from the document, but it remains the only entry under “Policies” on its website. More tellingly, Mr Farage has specifically reaffirmed, or expanded on, nearly half the tax cuts listed in recent months. The manifesto puts Reform’s giveaways at £140bn ($190bn, 5% of gdp) per year, but claims to offset them with savings worth £160bn. Even on a generous-but-realistic accounting, The Economist estimates that the annual costs are in the region of £200bn and savings around £100bn (see chart). The gap between the two would amount to a colossal fiscal shock, blowing up the deficit and straining the gilt market to its limits.

Why the mismatch? Take taxes first. The changes are so vast that precise costings are futile. But Reform has made serially generous guesses. The party claims its personal-tax cuts cost £70bn a year. But the proposed lift to income-tax thresholds alone would cost at least that much, probably more, based on rules-of-thumb from hmrc, the tax agency. Adding cuts to fuel duty, stamp duty, vat, inheritance tax and more adds tens of billions.

Recently, Mr Farage has doubled down on his single costliest pledge, to lift the personal allowance for income tax from £12,570 to £20,000. And he now wants to fully abolish inheritance tax. The manifesto promises businesses £18bn of giveaways too. But the promise to cut corporation tax by ten percentage points alone is worth double that. And the realistic take from one of Reform’s main revenue-raisers, dropping some interest payments on Bank of England reserves, is a mere fraction of the £35bn stated.

Then comes spending. Reform wants £30bn-40bn more for health, defence and fighting crime. To pay, and cover tax cuts, the party relies on hand-waving and austerity. Questionably, it asserts that its policies will add one percentage point to growth (a near-doubling) and take 1m Britons off benefits. In addition, it suggests a 5% cut across government (austerity not far off the 2010s), plus unfathomably vast savings from ending net zero.

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2025/05/1.avif

OLD BOY

09-05-2025 21:54

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196257)

Just think about what £32b could have done for homelessness, including the written-off £5bn of fraud.

If it’s written off it’s because it’s irretrievable. And your solution is….

Yes, better change the subject!

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:50 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196267)

With a bit of luck, Reform UK will get control of Wales.
I've no idea whether or not they'll solve Wales' problems, but it'll certainly rile one or two forum members who are obviously practising now.

It would help to show the kind of difference Reform could make in Westminster. It can’t be a bad thing.

---------- Post added at 21:54 ---------- Previous post was at 21:52 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196272)

You think that amount of money cannot help the homeless? How much do you think it would cost, for heaven’s sake. That’s a lot of money.

Mr K	09-05-2025 21:56

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

As with Brexit, maybe the public will only find put the hard way about populists and their true motives.
They can always blame someone else...

OLD BOY

09-05-2025 22:02

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196308)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36196361)

As with Brexit, maybe the public will only find put the hard way about populists and their true motives.
They can always blame someone else...

We wouldn’t have landed the recent trade deals with the US, India, Australia and the CTPPP if we were still in the EU. We would be paying 27.5% on car exports instead of 10%, and we would not have achieved 0% on steel.

We will soon feel the impact of these trade deals and once that happens, it will slowly dawn on the remainers that there’s no going back and that Brexit was a good thing after all.

Even boring old Starmer seems to have latched on to that.

Mr K	09-05-2025 22:05

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196362)

Pot calling the kettle, black!

Anyway, I thought you were a confirmed Tory Boy, OB? How did you get it so wrong?!

Sephiroth

09-05-2025 22:18

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196358)

<SNIP>

It would help to show the kind of difference Reform could make in Westminster. It can’t be a bad thing.

<SNIP>.

I'm not sure at this point that Reform is able to justify some of their policies in funding terms. How will they fund their commitment to abolishing Inheritance Tax, the £20,000 tax threshold, reduction in corporation tax? They are open to attack - and Hugh has already posted an important analysis by The Economist.

If my party, the Conservatives, don't come right, I would want Reform to be electable.

Paul	09-05-2025 22:28

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

A £20,000 tax threashold would be great, but not very realistic.
I think most people would be happy if it was just increased for inflation.
Had this happened each year, it would be somewhere around 15,300 now.

Hugh	09-05-2025 23:44

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196362)

Yeah, yeah. The devils we know are Labour and the Conservatives, so no thanks.

If you always go for the ‘tried and tested’ that have rarely come up with solutions the public want, it’s time to move beyond that. Reform is saying a lot of things the man in the street really thinks, and that’s what bothers people such as your good self, who are quite happy to inflict your way onto everyone else, whether they like it or not.

---------- Post added at 22:02 ---------- Previous post was at 21:58 ----------

We wouldn’t have landed the recent trade deals with the US, India, Australia and the CTPPP if we were still in the EU. We would be paying 27.5% on car exports instead of 10%, and we would not have achieved 0% on steel.

We will soon feel the impact of these trade deals and once that happens, it will slowly dawn on the remainers that there’s no going back and that Brexit was a good thing after all.

Even boring old Starmer seems to have latched on to that.

We don’t have a Trade Deal with the US - we have a non-legally binding agreement to start talking about a Trade Deal.

Chris

09-05-2025 23:54

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Also we’ve hardly “landed” anything. At best we’ve somewhat mitigated the damage Trump is determined to do to the world economy, as it affects us.

1andrew1

10-05-2025 00:05

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36196382)

Also we’ve hardly “landed” anything. At best we’ve somewhat mitigated the damage Trump is determined to do to the world economy, as it affects us.

Well said, we'll make a Remainer out of you yet. :tu: :D

Chris

10-05-2025 00:23

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36196383)

Well said, we'll make a Remainer out of you yet. :tu: :D

Not really, being outside the EU has given us freedom to move more quickly and leverage Trump’s affection for his Scottish granny ;)

OLD BOY

10-05-2025 02:29

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36196382)

Also we’ve hardly “landed” anything. At best we’ve somewhat mitigated the damage Trump is determined to do to the world economy, as it affects us.

Get real, Chris. What did you expect? That’s a pretty good example of armchair commentary. What would you have done, given that Trump is calling the shots?

RichardCoulter

10-05-2025 07:15

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Another Reform councillor has resigned saying he doesn't have time to do it. He's been criticised for causing the cost of a by election.

I suspect that he didn't think that he'd actually win.

Sephiroth

10-05-2025 08:50

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36196383)

Well said, we'll make a Remainer out of you yet. :tu: :D

Shame on you. The EU is fragmenting before your very eyes (and, I hope leading to implosion). That’s Slovakia, Romania and Hungary becoming pro-Putin.

Chris

10-05-2025 09:05

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196387)

Get real, Chris. What did you expect? That’s a pretty good example of armchair commentary. What would you have done, given that Trump is calling the shots?

Hello pot, this is kettle calling!

papa smurf

10-05-2025 09:15

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36196395)

Hello pot, this is kettle calling!

Hello stove here 25% tariff for sitting on me :)

Russ	10-05-2025 09:38

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196358)

If it’s written off it’s because it’s irretrievable. And your solution is….

Yes, better change the subject!

Tell us how it's irretrievable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196358)

Reform is saying a lot of things the man in the street wants to hear

There, fixed it for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

and that’s what bothers people such as your good self, who are quite happy to inflict your way onto everyone else, whether they like it or not

.

Irony alert :rofl:

Have you read your own posts?

1andrew1

20-05-2025 23:57

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Good news Reform fans. Farage is planning a visit to the UK next week. :D

Quote:

Nigel Farage missed debate on Brexit reset because he is holidaying abroad

Reform UK leader, who has made at least nine trips overseas since general election, says he will return to UK next week

Nigel Farage missed the parliamentary debate on the biggest reset to Brexit since the referendum because he is overseas on holiday, the Reform UK leader has said.

Following speculation that he was on holiday in France, Farage, who has not been seen in the Commons this week and did not present his GB News show on Monday, released a statement confirming he was away.

“There seems to be great consternation in the press that they have not seen me for 48 hours. Well, they will have to wait some time,” he wrote.

“After months of touring the UK in the run-up to our hugely successful local election campaign I will resume travelling the country next week as Reform moves to the next stage.

“Meanwhile I am having my first overseas break for three years, the jungle excepted. Well I say break … plenty of articles and fundraising calls!”

In 2023 Farage went to the jungle in Australia to take part in the ITV reality TV show I’m a Celebrity … Get Me Out of Here! Since becoming the MP for Clacton last year, Farage has taken a number of overseas trips which were not entirely for parliamentary work.

He has made at least nine trips abroad, including eight to the US, since last year’s general election, with many of them either funded by donors or undertaken for paid employment such as speeches.

These included a visit to the US in support of Donald Trump in August last year where flights and accommodation for Farage and one staffer cost nearly £33,000, and a £27,000 trip to attend Trump’s inauguration in January this year.

His holiday takes place while the Commons is sitting, despite the fact that the chamber goes into recess from Thursday, and does not sit all of next week.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...idaying-abroad

Sephiroth

30-05-2025 16:29

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

I wonder who will be nervously watching the likely rise of Reform UK in Wales.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...shire-31754275

Russ	30-05-2025 16:36

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

:rofl:

More chance of me regrowing my hair.

Mr K	30-05-2025 20:49

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

I'm afraid, as with Brexit the UK population will find out the hard way about populists and their lies. It'll be a tough lesson.

OLD BOY

31-05-2025 19:08

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36196365)

Pot calling the kettle, black!

Anyway, I thought you were a confirmed Tory Boy, OB? How did you get it so wrong?!

I call it as I find it. The Conservatives are in a mess, there's no too ways about that. Same with Labour.

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196371)

Perhaps you underestimate the amount of waste the taxpayers are expected to fund.

---------- Post added at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was at 18:57 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36196381)

We don’t have a Trade Deal with the US - we have a non-legally binding agreement to start talking about a Trade Deal.

We have trade deals with individual States and of course the recent deal on tariffs. Look at the predicament of the EU.

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 18:58 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36196389)

Another Reform councillor has resigned saying he doesn't have time to do it. He's been criticised for causing the cost of a by election.

I suspect that he didn't think that he'd actually win.

All parties experience this sort of annoying problem.

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36196395)

Hello pot, this is kettle calling!

At least I am not a dreamer. I say things as I see them. Some live in the past.

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196397)

Irony alert :rofl:

Have you read your own posts?

I'm not inflicting anything on anyone. Perhaps you should clarify what the hell you are talking about.

Hugh	31-05-2025 19:23

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36197392)

I call it as I find it. The Conservatives are in a mess, there's no too ways about that. Same with Labour.

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:55 ----------

Perhaps you underestimate the amount of waste the taxpayers are expected to fund.

---------- Post added at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was at 18:57 ----------

We have trade deals with individual States and of course the recent deal on tariffs. Look at the predicament of the EU.

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 18:58 ----------

All parties experience this sort of annoying problem.

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------

At least I am not a dreamer. I say things as I see them. Some live in the past.

---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

I'm not inflicting anything on anyone. Perhaps you should clarify what the hell you are talking about.

No, we don’t - we have Memorandums of Understanding with seven States, and as was previously stated

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=5804

Quote:

the Participants, in the spirit of promoting closer relationships, intend to further support and work co-operatively within the boundaries of existing laws and treaties in their respective jurisdictions on goals and issues as set forth below.

Quote:

This MOU is not legally binding under state, national, or international law and does not create any legal obligation to carry out or to financially support any activity.

The U.S. Constitution, through the Commerce Clause, gives Congress exclusive power over trade activities between the states and with foreign countries…

OLD BOY

31-05-2025 20:21

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36197398)

No, we don’t - we have Memorandums of Understanding with seven States, and as was previously stated

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=5804

OK, memoranda of understanding, then! :rolleyes:

Hugh	31-05-2025 21:24

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36197403)

OK, memoranda of understanding, then! :rolleyes:

There’s a very important difference - Trade Deals are contractual arrangement between states concerning their trade relationships, whilst an MoU is a non-binding agreement between parties, typically to outline their intentions, goals, and potential areas of cooperation.

One is legally binding, the other isn’t…

The seven States don’t have any Trade Deals with the U.K. as only Congress can legally do this.

OLD BOY

01-06-2025 15:06

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36197409)

I know. It was a work around as Biden was not interested in full blown trade deals.

Hugh	01-06-2025 15:21

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36197422)

I know. It was a work around as Biden was not interested in full blown trade deals.

It's not "a work around" if it isn't signed off trade deal, it's a piece of paper full of good intentions that cannot be fulfilled as only Congress can sign off Trade Deals with other countries.

In case you have forgotten, you posted

Quote:

We have trade deals with individual States

We don't...

jem	01-06-2025 19:04

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Correct, individual States in the US do not have the power to conduct trade deals with other countries, that being a prerogative of Congress. At best a State might have some negotiate some arrangement to remove some ‘red tape, work towards improving communication etc. But that’s it.

OLD BOY

01-06-2025 19:57

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36197427)

Jeez! Your pedantic ways are getting worse by the day!

If the memoranda of understanding results in increased trade, it is a trade deal, but not the type of trade deal we’ve negotiated with India, etc. That’s as I see it, anyhow.

Chris

01-06-2025 20:03

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36197451)

In other words you prefer to re-imagine what things mean so that they mean what you think.

That’s not how language works, sorry. Humans are able to communicate using language because language has agreed definitions of terms. ‘Trade deal’ and ‘memorandum of understanding’ are entirely different things. The former creates a set of rules. The latter expresses a set of wishes and aspirations. The former is enforceable. The latter is not even intended to be enforced.

A memorandum of understanding does not magically become a trade deal when the parties to it choose to honour each other’s wishes, any more than your mum’s Corsa becomes a McLaren F1 just because you took it on a track day at Silverstone.

OLD BOY

01-06-2025 20:06

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36197452)

I don’t indulge in pedantry, Chris. You just love this, don’t you?

Chris

01-06-2025 20:13

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36197453)

I don’t indulge in pedantry, Chris. You just love this, don’t you?

What you indulge in is speaking authoritatively on matters you don’t understand, then trying to wriggle off the hook when you get called out.

Paul	01-06-2025 22:41

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36197451)

If the memoranda of understanding results in increased trade, it is a trade deal

No, its a "memoranda of understanding".
If it were a Trade Deal, then it would be called a "Trade Deal". :dozey:

Maggy

02-06-2025 08:01

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36197455)

What you indulge in is speaking authoritatively on matters you don’t understand, then trying to wriggle off the hook when you get called out.

:tu:

1andrew1

02-06-2025 18:14

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Back to Reform UK.

In Scotland, Reform UK today welcomed two defecting councillors. One ex Conservative in the morning and one ex Labour in the afternoon.
https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scottis...s-to-reform-uk

papa smurf

02-06-2025 18:16

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36197517)

i can understand a conservative defecting but what has reform got in common with labour values

OLD BOY

02-06-2025 19:38

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36197460)

No, its a "memoranda of understanding".
If it were a Trade Deal, then it would be called a "Trade Deal". :dozey:

It’s a deal, and it relates to trade.

I am not disputing that it’s nowhere near the full blown trade deal that the Conservatives had drafted while Trump was President previously.

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:34 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36197518)

i can understand a conservative defecting but what has reform got in common with labour values

Reform UK have supported nationalisation, abolishing the two-child cap, and restoring the winter fuel payments for a start. Plus, Reform UK have not only made the Conservatives nervous, but Labour and the SNP too.

You will find a lot more defections to Reform UK over the next four years.

Russ	02-06-2025 19:43

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36197523)

It’s a deal, and it relates to trade.

A Sea Horse is not a horse that lives in the sea.

OLD BOY

02-06-2025 19:45

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36197527)

A Sea Horse is not a horse that lives in the sea.

Very profound… :rolleyes:

1andrew1

02-06-2025 20:27

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36197518)

i can understand a conservative defecting but what has reform got in common with labour values

Reform are a populist party so left wing on benefits and right-wing on immigration and social values.

Here's what The Telegraph said today.
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1748892395

papa smurf

02-06-2025 20:42

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36197536)

Reform are a populist party so left wing on benefits and right-wing on immigration and social values.

Here's what The Telegraph said today.
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1748892395

written by mel totally unbiassed stride ;)

Pierre

02-06-2025 21:42

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36197536)

Reform are a populist party so left wing on benefits and right-wing on immigration and social values.

Hmmm, like most of the country, I wonder why they’re popular?

1andrew1

02-06-2025 21:44

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36197537)

written by mel totally unbiassed stride ;)

You have a point. ;)

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36197544)

Hmmm, like most of the country, I wonder why they’re popular?

It's a sweet spot.

Pierre

03-06-2025 10:59

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36197545)

It's a sweet spot.

Left & Right, don't really exist anymore. Tackle the issues independently and you'll have more success than starting from some ideological entrenchment.

Sephiroth

03-06-2025 12:38

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Yeah - but the term "leftie" has a ring to it that easily makes sense

Hugh	03-06-2025 12:47

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36197559)

Yeah - but the term "leftie" has a ring to it that easily makes sense

That "ring" is an echo chamber…

1andrew1

03-06-2025 15:46

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36197559)

Yeah - but the term "leftie" has a ring to it that easily makes sense

As Pierre suggests, times they are a-changing.

Sephiroth

03-06-2025 15:56

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36197566)

As Pierre suggests, times they are a-changing.

I don't think you are the one to pray Pierre in aid! I suspect that what I said about lefties does chime with Pierre. He'll quickly come back to say if I'm wrong.

Lefties will always be lefties; it's the "right" that is somewhat fuzzy. The term is wielded in so many contexts (such as law and order, migration), ending up with the leftie PM calling the rest of us fascist to all intents and purposes.

But the leftie is a known entity. Reform is not in that category and Red Wall voters who support Reform are obviously not lefties.

Hugh	03-06-2025 16:59

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Got to love self-affirming circular logic…

Sephiroth - "anything I say is "leftie" is "leftie", is a "known entity", so no more definition is required, whilst "right" is somewhat fuzzy, as that gives me wiggle room if I’m called out on anything, and I can always use the old "look, they don’t agree with my definition, so they must be calling us fascists to all intents and purposes (even though they haven’t, the old ad-hominem dog-whistle is always useful…)

Some snippets from YouGov surveys when we last discussed "leftie" vs "rightie" definitions (just under two years ago), when you declined to actually give a definition of "leftie"…

Quote:

YouGov shows that the left-wing to right-wing political spectrum is actually much more complex than previously thought when it comes to public opinion

Quote:

Framing politics in terms of left-wing and right-wing might be simple for politicians, and comforting to activists, but it seems that these terms just aren’t that useful for talking about - or indeed to - the general public.

A new YouGov study reveals that the political wing spectrum is poorly understood and also that huge numbers of people don’t hold consistent left- and right-wing outlooks.

Quote:

Of more than 100 political views we put to people, none were identified as being specifically left-wing or right-wing by more than 53% of people. That is to say, even for the very most stereotypically left- and right-wing policies, half of the population do not identify them as such.

In short, very few are simply "leftie" or "rightie", but instead, have a range of views on a number of different political subjects, and believing that there is a simplistic dichotomy between types of voters based solely because "you say so" is an interesting viewpoint…

1andrew1

03-06-2025 17:48

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36197567)

I don't think you are the one to pray Pierre in aid!

I'm just agreeing with him (I know, I know :D), I'm not asking him to back me up. :angel:

Russ	03-06-2025 17:48

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36197567)

You don't happen to run a website for affordable, quality marital aids by any chance?

There's a certain familiarity about this.... :Sprint:

RichardCoulter

04-06-2025 13:21

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36197569)

I think that's true of most supporters of any particular party because politics is often about compromise. People usually tend to vote for the party that most aligns with their views and beliefs.

This is why I am a floating voter, at each election I consider everything on offer and make a decision based upon that.

There will always be people who vote for the same party in the same way that they think they should be loyal to a football team, so it's floating voters who essentially decide who wins an election.

Sephiroth

04-06-2025 13:46

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Well, Richard, in the 2024 GE, it was a case of "anyone but the Tories". .

The lefties have nowhere to go other than Labour. Others, particularly non-lefties, would have voted Reform or Lib-Dem.

You mentioned the offer that parties make at a GE. You'll recall that everything that Labour offered was "fully costed". And, here we are.

Hugh	04-06-2025 14:25

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Bunching Lib-Dems (who gained 61 seats) and Reform UK (who gained 5 seats) together as attracting "non-lefties" is quite a stretch…

Sephiroth

04-06-2025 14:31

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36197599)

Bunching Lib-Dems (who gained 61 seats) and Reform UK (who gained 5 seats) together as attracting "non-lefties" is quite a stretch…

Yeah - thinking about it. Lib-Dems embrace a good chunk of lefties who can't bring themselves to vote Labour.

Hugh	04-06-2025 14:38

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Funnily enough, perusing the HoC library info on the 2024 Election (as one does :D ), this snippet seemed apposite…

Quote:

How many times were Reform and the Greens in second place?

Reform came second place in 98 constituencies. In 89 of these cases, it was second to Labour. 60 of these were in the north of England and 13 were in Wales.

In comparison, the Brexit Party came in second place in three constituencies in 2019, while UKIP came second in 120 constituencies in 2015.

Quite different results for Nigel’s Party at different times…

Sephiroth

04-06-2025 14:44

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Early days, but Farage (if he hasn't peaked) may have got it right this time.

However, IIRC, in 2019, the Brexit Party played tactically, not standing in constituencies where Boris was expected to win. Hence not coming second so often.

Hugh	04-06-2025 15:14

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

They stood in around half the Constituencies…

Chris

04-06-2025 16:00

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36197576)

You don't happen to run a website for affordable, quality marital aids by any chance?

There's a certain familiarity about this.... :Sprint:

No, Russ, that’s a straw man, and you *don’t* get away with that! ;)

Russ	04-06-2025 17:31

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36197598)

Well, Richard, in the 2024 GE, it was a case of "anyone but the Tories". .

Oooo, somebody took that so personally they can’t let go :rofl:

---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:31 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36197604)

No, Russ, that’s a straw man, and you *don’t* get away with that! ;)

No, that’s just your opinion. My opinion is fact :D

Hugh	05-06-2025 17:40

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Zia Yusuf resigns as Reform UK chairman

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq54p9epdg6o

Quote:

Zia Yusuf has resigned as the chairman of Reform UK, saying "I no longer believe working to get a Reform government elected is a good use of my time".

In a post on social media, external, Yusuf did not expand further on his reasons for stepping down.

However, it comes after he said it was "dumb" for the party's newest MP to call on Sir Keir Starmer to ban the burka.

In a post on X, Yusuf wrote: "11 months ago I became chairman of Reform. I've worked full time as a volunteer to take the party from 14 to 30% [in national polls], quadrupled its membership and delivered historic electoral results.

"I no longer believe working to get a Reform government elected is a good use of my time, and hereby resign the office."

Some "interesting" replies in his Twitter feed to this announcement

Quote:

An ethnically non-native person should NEVER be in an elected position of power.

Quote:

I think you should resign from being in this country at all.

Quote:

Foreigners* can be remarkably graceless at times, can’t they?

Quote:

Good, now go home.

* He was born in Bellshill, just outside Glasgow

Damien

05-06-2025 17:45

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Idiots.

It's good to see the right isn't immune to letting infighting on pet issues no one else cares about derail their bid for power. He is right that it's dumb for Reform to be talking about banning the burka because it's not anyone's main concern and makes you look like cranks. It's just like Corbyn's Labour in being too indulgent of your base.

Every British Party should remember that their membership is essentially nuts and should be ignored as much as feasibly possible.

papa smurf

05-06-2025 18:41

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36197649)

obviously he want's to wear the Burka and is a bit miffed that pochin want's it banned

thenry

05-06-2025 18:46

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Why are people so insecure. Is it because their own citizenship is at risk with the head of state welcoming people of all faith, creed etc. that's hardly foreign looking persons issue. Leave if you don't like it. HMPs are full!

Mr K	05-06-2025 20:04

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Never mind the the burka. They should ban anyone over 50 wearing shorts. A much more important issue.

Russ	05-06-2025 20:08

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36197661)

Never mind the the burka. They should ban anyone over 50 wearing shorts. A much more important issue.

Hey! My legs are sexy as **** :D

Pierre

05-06-2025 21:23

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36197648)

Zia Yusuf resigns as Reform UK chairman

1andrew1

05-06-2025 21:59

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

I just don't know which implosion to look at? Musk and Elon or Reform UK? I'm being spoilt! :D

Will also be interesting to see if Reform continues with the Doge brand for its audit of its newly-won councils as this may now be out of favour.

1andrew1

06-06-2025 07:04

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36197392)

I call it as I find it. The Conservatives are in a mess, there's no too ways about that. Same with Labour.

Will you now add Reform UK to that list in light of recent events? An MP going off piste on Wednesday and the Chair, largest funder and individual responsible for professionalising the Party quitting yesterday.

Chris

06-06-2025 07:52

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

1 Attachment(s)

In other news, ‘third place in the Hamilton by election’ as a headline scarcely does Reform justice. It was a 3-way close race, which Labour won, with the SNP (who had held the seat) in second, but Reform coming up close behind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c1w3...5da0456ee#post

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1749192715

Hugh	06-06-2025 08:34

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

I loved the BBC report

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgqzdl8lxyo

Quote:

But there was a sense that voters in Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse were scunnered with the status quo.

Not a word often heard on the BBC…

Hugh	06-06-2025 15:28

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy60vjy1y8o

Quote:

The tech entrepreneur who quit heading up Reform UK's Department of Government Efficiency (Doge) says he did so because the resignation of the party's chairman left him with "a bit of doubt" about the future of the project.

After 11 months in the role, Reform UK chairman Zia Yusuf resigned on Thursday alongside Nathaniel Fried, who was said to be leading the unit.

Asked by Politics South East whether the Doge audit of Kent County Council (KCC) was going the same way as Elon Musk's project in America, he said: "I don't know to be honest, I'm no longer in charge of Reform's Doge."

thenry

07-06-2025 17:33

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Reform UK chairman Zia Yusuf has reversed his decision to quit the party, saying "the mission is too important" and that he "cannot let people down".

https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uk...party-13380464

Great creditability.

Sephiroth

07-06-2025 17:43

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

If true, I'm pleased. Reform UK currently fills the void left by the Tories. If Reform can stay in the game, it should inspire the Tories to start getting things right (starting with a cull of their front bench) so that should Reform cave later in the Parliament, the Tories might come through. Or are we looking at flying pigs squared?

Kursk

08-06-2025 01:54

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

As Mark Twain nearly said: the demise of the Conservative Party is greatly exaggerated. If you don’t read the newspaper, you’re uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you’re mis-informed ;).

Pierre

08-06-2025 09:39

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 36197759)

As Mark Twain nearly said: the demise of the Conservative Party is greatly exaggerated. If you don’t read the newspaper, you’re uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you’re mis-informed ;).

The Conservative Party is done, for a minimum of two election cycles at least.

The country needs radical change and the Tory’s and Labour are two cheeks of the same arse.

Hugh	08-06-2025 09:46

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

And Reform UK is the place between those cheeks… ;)

Russ	08-06-2025 09:55

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36197764)

And Reform UK is the place between those cheeks… ;)

:clap:

Sephiroth

08-06-2025 09:58

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36197763)

The Conservative Party is done, for a minimum of two election cycles at least.

The country needs radical change and the Tory’s and Labour are two cheeks of the same arse.

... with one much redder than the other. The left one, I presume.

1andrew1

08-06-2025 10:50

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Reform UK is not the successor to the Conservative Party. By policy and spending, it's more like the love child of Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss. ;)

Hugh	08-06-2025 11:15

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36197766)

... with one much redder than the other. The left one, I presume.

The right one would be more reddish, I would have thought, depending on the curing/smoking process…

Pierre

08-06-2025 12:22

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36197767)

Reform UK is not the successor to the Conservative Party. By policy and spending, it's more like the love child of Jeremy Corbyn and Liz Truss. ;)

That might be what the people want.

Also U.K. gilts are way higher now than they were under Truss

RichardCoulter

08-06-2025 12:48

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36197753)

Didn't Badenoch fairly recently say that she "doesn't make mistakes"? What a silly thing to say, we all make mistakes, it's part of the human condition and a way for us to learn & improve ourselves (I believe that this is the actual point of our time spent here).

---------- Post added at 12:48 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36197764)

And Reform UK is the place between those cheeks… ;)

Hahaha, that's the funniest thing i've heard in a while :D

thenry

08-06-2025 13:46

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36197764)

And Reform UK is the place between those cheeks… ;)

Zia Yusufs lips can only be described as hemorrhoids around the bumhole

Damien

08-06-2025 14:43

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Farage going out of his way to get him back is probably an indicator that he is more willing to get things slide to keep what he considers to be effective political operators around. It looks messy now but he isn't falling into the trap he did before of letting ego get in the way of politics.

Pierre

08-06-2025 17:32

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36197777)

Farage going out of his way to get him back is probably an indicator that he is more willing to get things slid to keep what he considers to be effective political operators around. It looks messy now but he isn't falling into the trap he did before of letting ego get in the way of politics.

Exactly, he was happy to let Lowe go.

You have to keep your best people.

Russ	10-06-2025 14:28

Re: Reform UK's chronicles

Farage was in Port Talbot yesterday fooling people in to thinking Reform would reopen the closed parts of the steelworks and get the coal mines open again. And yep some valleys people are thick enough to believe him.

I wish I’d known he was coming, I’d have saved up several bags of shit to throw.

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