Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

So you post an article that seems to imply the whole economic policy of team blue for the last 14 years was an unnecessary approach for a government to take. Interesting, but you got there in the end.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

You must be smoking some good stuff atm, that article is entirely about Labour.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Yes it is about Labour, but it's saying tightening the reins as the only way forwards because of a £22bn black hole is a a misnomer - and the whole Conservative ethos was tighten the rains because there's no other way with funds being tight.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Indeed, and trying to make it into something its not seems a rather desperate reach. :erm:

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

We know that, the £22Bn black hole is/was a Labour fabrication.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

To me, the test is whether it was promised in their manifesto which voters elected them on. If it wasn't then it'd hard to criticise them for not doing something they didn't promise to do.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

UK economy showed no growth in last quarter, revised figures show
Revised figures show the UK economy flatlined in the third quarter of the year. This came after legal services firms and bars and restaurants recorded a weaker than expected performance.

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-econom...-show-13279039


https://www.gbnews.com/money/gdp-fla...ession-warning

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

This was also when the new government were talking up the economy, saying how good a shape it was in, encouraging people to spend their money and promising a budget that would be pro-business and not scaring the bejesus out of everyone so that they stayed at home and saved their money.……………or did I dream that?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

The thing to remember is the grown up's are in charge and this is a budget for growth, we should all be feeling flush but the economy has been flushed

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Think of it as taking over a house the previous occupants trashed, and who left a mess behind - it takes time, cost, and effort to get it back to a reasonable standard before you can make the improvements you want.

Anyone who expects overnight fixes (by whoever is in power) is deluding themselves, or just going for cheap political points…

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

There's always one
and it's always the same one :rolleyes:

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I know, him and the facts are very irritating ;)

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

So where did Sunak's 'Eat out to help out' funding come from? Where did the £billions of furlough pay come from? Debt.
That's not to say that the budget raised more than I think was necessary, but the Covid debt is reality.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Oy!

Facts find that statement objectionable… ;)

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Starmer and Reeves promised the Waspi women they would support them. But they haven’t.

That is the issue, not whether it was in the manifesto.

As to whether they will honour their manifesto….the economy isn’t looking too good is it? Do you think we’ll ever get that growth they have based their spending plans on?

Labour don’t have a clue when it comes to the economy and the private sector. We should all be worried.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

You were warned about the economy but you dismissed it as Project Fear. I'm not pretending the sluggish economy since 2021 is due to just one factor and I hope you're sensible enough to do the same.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

A pretty much spot on unbiased political analysis.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I don’t know what point of time you are talking about, and why this comment is relevant.

Labour told us they were not going to hit working people and they would grow the economy. That was their pledge, and yet look what has happened. Working people have been hit by the prospect of redundancy and increased unemployment following their clumsy legislation introducing increased rates of NI employers’ contributions and all the other measures proudly put forward by our Rach and there has been no growth in the economy for the last three months on Labour’s watch.

That’s nothing to do with the Conservatives, it is Labour’s own self inflicted wounds.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Over what timescale? Labour can't be blamed for the massive debt the last Govt kept hidden. You (and others) gave the last Govt 14 years and voted for national suicide (Brexit) . An ageing non productive population is the result. Take some responsibility for your actions and give this Govt the same time to put things right. A few months isnt reasonable. We need to stop wasting money on rich pensioners and give the few youngsters left in this country some hope and reason to stay here. It'll take decades to recover from ancient little Englanders and their constant whinging about their own decisions.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I can't work out how pensioners became filthy rich under the Tory's but everyone else became poor :shrug:

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Probably because no one has said that…

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

You'd need to look at the policies of the last Govt . 'We're all in this together' wasn't true. Unbelievable I know...

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Hidden massive debt? The figures are published. The £22bn "black hole" was debunked by the OBR.

---------- Post added at 20:56 ---------- Previous post was at 20:35 ----------

The triple lock was suspended in 2021 because of the artificial increase in wages post-covid. Wages dropped in 2020 and then returned to previous levels giving the appearance of inflated pay rises. Across the 2 years or so there was no big rise, so they kept to the intent of the "triple lock" with inflation linked rises instead. Don't know what the actual figures were, but eg if wages dropped 10% in 2020 and then returned to previous levels, it would give the false impression that there had been an 11% rise in wages, when the actual overall rise was zero.

The quirks of using annual figures showed up again, when there was high inflation. Therefore they got an inflation based increase(10.1%). As a result of inflation, pay rises over the next year shot up, which led to above inflation pension rises(8.5%). They had already received the inflationary increase once over the year before, and so again received another artificially high increase.



If people are living in care homes, then the house ISN'T their home.It is merely an unused asset, so why shouldn't it be sold?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

There’s certainly valid argument there but the point in question was bullshitting Boris lied through his teeth (again) when he made it part of his manifesto.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Think of it as taking over a house, the previous occupants had indeed mistreated, but were in the process of doing up. They had a very limited budget but decided to pay the plasterer and roofer 10% more than they had quoted.

They gave away some of the budget to strangers.

They decided to pay for the extra expenditure by putting up all the prices in the corner shop they owned, but people didn’t go to the shop, and shopped elsewhere.


They ended up losing the house………

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Did he get elected on said manifesto?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

And how do you invigorate a sluggish economy?

By discouraging investment? By discouraging employment?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

That's what BoJo did in 2021 and one of the reasons why the economy is where it is today. Taxing hard working businesses is not the solution but an honest penny on income tax doesn't win elections.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

So why are Labour doing it?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I've explained before why I think they've raised the revenue this way.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

The financial situation was caused by Covid and the Ukraine/Russia war, so I agree with you that Labour was not responsible for that.

Not sure I follow you there. Brexit was a good thing for us, but the problem was that the government failed to implement many of the measures that would have made it work. Rishi’s heart certainly wasn’t in it, and we are still saddled with EU regulations, which should have been abolished early in the life of the administration.

But what exactly is your argument about an ‘aging non productive population?

Don’t blame the elderly for any of this. They’ve done their bit, but what about the lazy so-and-sos who refuse to work and who are content to claim benefits instead?
What I do agree with is that Labour need time to put this right. However, my confidence that this will happen has been tested by the decisions that they have been taking since getting to power. For example, did Rach really understand the implications of increasing employers’ NI contributions? How exactly will that promote growth?

What are you saying? Rich pensioners? Do you know any?

That’s just daft.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

What exactly is a "Rich pensioner" ?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Let me introduce to you …….Karl Marx, everyone…..a wonderful guy…

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

If you trade with them you follow their regulations don't you? Was bozo and lord frosts heart not in it either, actually I'm not sure frosts was, all he's done is moan about the deal he negotiated and bozo will side with whatever works best for him so maybe you're right :shrug:

Funnily enough the only ones I know are loaded...

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Back in 1991 my first proper job after Uni was as a police civilian clerk, in short on shift with one of the policing teams. I was barely out of my teens and we also had some uniformed officers not much older than myself.

One of those went on to make it to Chief Inspector and took retirement on a full pension at 50 (as many cops do) but applied to do a civvy job in the police at supervisory level, the salary would have been around £32k.

So on top of that monthly wage, he also has his police pension (which I would never criticise him for as he was a damn good cop).

I don't know exactly what he's on (it's none of my business), but I'd consider him a well-off, if not 'rich', pensioner.

And as much as I liked the guy if I heard him complain about the fuel allowance removal I'd call him a knobhead to his face,

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

The problem is pensioners like my Father in Law who are just above the limit set by the government are the ones to struggle. As it stands if he needs help we as a family will ensure he is safe. Come the next election we as a family will not forget this.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

So you voted Labour this time then?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I will bite as it's the season of good will, i have never voted for labour and will never vote for Labour. People call the conservatives the nasty party but as a veteran who served in NI i find Labours stance in the past and in the present towards veterans who served in NI distasteful at the least and down right treacherous in reality. It sickens me to see Starmer spout how highly he regards the military when he is one of the instigators of the investigations into the military and don't forget it was Labour who issued the letters of comfort to the terrorists which means they can no longer be brought to justice for what they did unlike the veterans who are now going to be investigated.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...s-prosecution/

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1527975571467487

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

No need to bite. You said come the next election you will not forget this but you would never vote Labour anyway so why the colourful statement?

I was in NI in the 80ś working for the M.O.D. I remember talking to the soldiers in Crossmaglen and I have a different perspective to you. Do you have the same opinion of the Tory Party when David Cameron apologised for killings by British paras on Bloody Sunday?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I was not happy when he did that and he needed a kick in the butt of it. When you look at some of the stuff that Labour has done when it comes to our service personnel its shocking. Do you remember Corbin speaking to the crowd in LondonDerry along side Adam's and McGuinness where he said the IRA were freedom fighters. By the way i was part of the security cordon that day so heard it all. This was just after the Loughgall attack by the IRA.

I did 3 tours in NI so have a bitter memory of what went on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loughgall_ambush

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I don´t regard Corbyn as representative of the broader Labour party in the same way some of the recent Tory leaders & ministers are not representative of the broader Tory party. Corbyn was an aberration in the same way Johnson was and both are well rid of. It is sad that the Labour Party has regained its senses but the Tory party has not.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-wo...gests-13281099


He’ll be gone by March, with Reeves close behind.

Prime Minister Streeting will see you now.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...rship-contests

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

This one ?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

It's not as if the "broader Labour party" voted him in as leader, is it? He's still an MP because of Labour voters.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

If only we could.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I think he's getting the bad news out of the way as early as possible. Obviously, he hopes opinions of him will improve in the next few years.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

If this is what ‘regaining its senses’ looks like, heaven help us! We have another four and a half years of this. :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

The bad news will be replaced by worse news. Wait and see.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Irrelevant…..but thanks anyway.


Talking about a change in leadership not government

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:09 ----------

Yes….got four years before that might happen.

---------- Post added at 20:24 ---------- Previous post was at 20:09 ----------

Apologies…….jus read the link ……..but still not sure of its relevance.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Next year's Labour Party conference will be held from Sunday, September 28 2025, which is after March 2025…

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I still fail to see your point?


What is it? Based on that post?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

The point is that, whilst in Government, Labour can only change Leader at a Party Conference, and the next Party Conference is late September next year, so it would be difficult for Labour to have a new Leader by March next year, as you stated.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

he didn't say which march

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

So what happens if he resigns (or dies) - are they leaderless ?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

They've got Ang she can run the guvhumunt :shocked:

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

just pointing out those pesky facts that you're so keen on ;)

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

But what if he walks?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Why would he resign in the next three months?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

He won't be under immediate pressure because the election is still 4 and a half years away.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

it might not be his idea

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

It's on my new year wish list :D

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

That wasnt the question, which you ignored.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

But the question is only relevant if Starmer resigns/walks, and I can see no reason why he will.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

The question is always relevant, you're just evading it.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

OK - If he walks, he won’t be there in March (the only answer possible to that question).

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

So he could go at anytime regardless of Labour conferences.

You think that if he resigned it would be because he wanted to?

I don’t think any politician has resigned because they wanted to.

Your assertion that Is obviously wrong if the change is made for them, or they engineer the change.

And someone may engineer a change if we keep getting headlines like this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0n14ywzqpo

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

as someone once said "when the herd moves the herd moves, thems the breaks";)

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Something magic might happen…

He can’t be removed before late September by the Party - why would he?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

It's going to be a challenging year given Trump's dislike for supporting Ukraine and free trade. And increased Brexit frictions and NI costs will cost hard-pressed businesses more which will impact staff and customers.

As a positive, Starmer will be more experienced in power. He will be a lot less likely to follow the Treasury's urging without considering the political implications, which he did for the Winter Fuel Allowance.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

And that is a long time in politics as Margaret Thatchers government was very unpopular early on with plunging poll ratings to match.

Never judge a book just by reading the first chapter.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

If Starmer does a Thatcher, I’ll take it all back..

But Thatcher always decried people making U-turns, and Starmer is a past master at them - his record is second to none!

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

<cough cough>

From this thread, last month, commenting on a post showing her "The lady’s not for turning" speech…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...e#post36186628

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Making a U-Turn is not in itself a sign of weakness or weak leadership.

If Starmer & Reeves did a u-turn on Winterfuel payments and employers N.I.

I’m sure they’d be lauded over it.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:35 ----------

In regards to WFA, Rachel from accounts actually appears to have done pensioners across the country a massive favour.

As it turns out the claims for pension credit has sky rocketed, and any “savings” she thought she would get from the £1.4B will be swallowed up by pension credit claims.

So actually, I retract my earlier statement. Well done Rachel.

https://policyinpractice.co.uk/more-...yment-savings/

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Yes, well done indeed. I fear all the Chancellor has done is to awaken a sleeping giant and filled them with a terrible resolve. We know how that ends.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Twenty Labour councillors quit party accusing Starmer of abandoning values

Twenty Labour councillors have quit the party in protest at its direction under the leadership of Sir Keir Starmer, accusing the prime minister of having "abandoned traditional Labour values".

The councillors - from Broxtowe Borough Council in Nottinghamshire – took aim at policies such as cutting the winter fuel allowance for some pensioners, the bus fare increase and Labour’s plans to scrap two-tier county and district councils.


man the lifeboats she's sinking :shocked:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2672965.html

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

When I said Musk was dangerous ...

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875150194909823085

If you can stomach it, look at his feed (https://x.com/elonmusk) and see how many posts and reposts he is doing relating to right wing & far right activities esp. "Tommy Robinson". This is the beginning of the project to make Reform the next opposition. He will increasingly weaponize Twitter to push misinformation & propaganda as we head towards the next election. Remember when Obama made a remark about Brexit and was loudly rebuked for "interfering in British politics", well, I look forward to same comments towards Musk.

The man is a maniacal narcissist with too much money, entitlement and power

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

That starmer sounds like a wrong un

https://www.gbnews.com/news/rochdale...grooming-gangs

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I don't understand Musk's obsession with this country. He lives in America, comes from South Africa and his main company Tesla has large factories in Germany, the USA and China. Yet he spends time sharing his views on the UK's ruling politicians. Bizarre.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

He sees another gullible population that can easily be manipulated . All fun, games and a power trip for him.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Anyone got a link to this alleged circular that Gordon Brown sent to all police forces?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Have you asked your mates in the labour party?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

I don’t have any mates in the Labour Party…

Meanwhile, back in the real world, there are no Home Office circulars to U.K. Police in 2008 stating any along the lines Maggie Oliver has alleged - the only one that refers to children

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....2008/017-2008/

I’m not sure how it could be that one, as nothing in it aligns with what Maggie Oliver alleged (and the Circulars come from the Home Office, not from Gordon Brown).

Here are all the 2008 circulars.

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....?d-7095067-p=2

In fact, someone put an FOI request in to the home Office in 2018, and the reply was

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ponse.pdf.html

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

For someone with no mates in the labour party you seem rather invested in this

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

You're a bit friendly with Labour too....
:shocked:
Don't know how you can live with yourself ;)

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

But not wrong.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

He lost, it was a protest vote like most labour votes are

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Link
Considering alcohol, drugs, and threats of violence were involved, along with the girls being well under 16, not sure where the "informed choice" comes from.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Facts are not political - facts are our friends (well, obviously not yours - they’re not even distant acquaintances…).

As Stewart Lee put it so pithily

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Just to add some enhanced optics on the above

Nazir Afzal was Chief Prosecutor in North West England from 2011 to 2015 and does appear to be a very respected individual. It is, therefore, important to read behind the explosive headline in the publication Politicalite: "GORDON Brown’s Labour Government allegedly urged Police Forces across the UK ‘not to investigate’ grooming gangs," to see what Mr Afzal actually sad in his interview with the BBC.

According to Altnewsmedia Nazir Afzal made the comment when he was interviewed on the Radio 4 PM programme on 19th October (2018). What he said was this: "back in 2008, the Home Office sent a circular to all police forces in the country stating: "as far as these young girls who are being exploited in towns and cities, we believe they have made an informed choice about their sexual behaviour and therefore it is not for police officers to get involved in." This was quoted correctly by Politicalite. However, when questioned about whether the Metropolitan Police had received such a letter the London Mayor's office stated: "Without further details the Met Police is unable to identify the Home Office circular from 2008 referred to nor the letter in question. Therefore, they cannot state whether any investigations were closed down in response to the letter or whether any order in the letter was later rescinded." Similarly, in response to a FOI query, West Mercia Police said there was,"No specific recorded information held." Furthermore, a search of the words "informed Choice" finds nothing on https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk.

In the International Business Times Nazir Afzal writes....
"The term "child prostitute" was used to describe victims and the Home Office in a circular to police in 2008 used that term and spoke of girls making an "informed choice" to engage in this behaviour"

However, there is no mention of an instruction saying that police shouldn't get involved. Indeed, his IBT article goes on to state: "Following the case, everyone including the prime minister chose to respond to the lessons learnt. I was commended in parliament and in the media."

So, what of the publisher of the explosive headline about Gordon Brown's Government?
their support us page claims ...."Politicalite is the truly independent news site that reports the unreported news by the people for the people, but we are under attack by the Establishment who are trying to censor real news written by the people for the people." The search bar at the top of the page contains individual links to Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage. An overview of its contents clear shows that its editorial stance is to support Robinson, Farage and, indeed, Donald Trump.

Perhaps a cellarful of salt would be in order when reviewing their stories.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_English_Review

https://x.com/jacqui_smith1/status/1...Fx9lsEXWlOa1jg

He’s referring to the Home Office Circular which I referred to earlier, which has no reference to children making an "informed choice"…

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....2008/017-2008/

The only times "informed" is used within this Circular are

The word "choice" is not used in the Circular at all…

Further to Mr M’s post above, the word "prostitute" (with or without the word "child" in front of it) does not appear in the Circular Mr Azfal refers to.

There have been multiple FOI applications to the Home Office, the CPS, and various Police Forces about any Circulars which supports this accusation, and they all turn up empty….

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

He isn't wrong that there might be a case for another inquiry if someone can suggest a new scope not covered in the 2022 one.

He is wrong about freeing Tommy Robinson or calling for the King to dissolve Parliament.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Wow, thats my council. :erm:

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

that was a yawnfest

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

No argument here.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

It was publicly stated on Radio 4(the recording is included in the link) by somebody who should be considered a reliable source.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Tommy Robinson is only in prison because he contravened a contempt of court order.

Nothing he has presented or reported is incorrect, as far as I can tell.

He’s not been sued for libel!

Douglas Murray says the same things as Tommy Robinson, some times going further, he never gets vilified, because he has a posh accent.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Yes, he is in prison for contempt of court.

He was sued for libel and lost as far as I can see. It was after that in which in which he repeated the disproven crimes that got him the jail time for contempt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_...ult_libel_case

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Yes, Yaxley-Lennon was sued for libel. He then repeated the libel and is in prison for contempt of court. He isn’t a folk hero. He’s subject to the same laws as the rest of us. The Contempt of Court Act is indeed draconian - every trainee journalist is lectured on it in detail because it can land you in jail very quickly. ‘Tommy Robinson’ will however have had this very clearly explained to him before he chose to do what he did.

As for Elmo presenting things correctly, well amongst many basic constitutional misunderstandings he’s opined on today is the idea that the King can just dissolve Parliament, without advice, thereby making his failure to ‘rescue’ us by doing so some inexplicable failing of Royal duty.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Also I am no fan of Farage but it's a pleasing part of UK politics that even he and Reform want nothing to do with him: https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1875252893928058938