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-   -   Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710520)

Hugh 31-12-2021 18:27
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36107624)
Thank you for the sentiment if a little Scottish heavy, I’m not Scottish. Wishing you happy and prosperous New Year.
I am Scots, but have lived outside Alba for 75% of my life.

Wishing you and yours all the best for 2022, and beyond.

OLD BOY 01-01-2022 18:46
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107595)

Quote:
Boris Johnson to be cleared of breaking rules over Downing St flat refurbishment

Geidt inquiry will ‘criticise’ prime minister’s conduct, say senior officials

Boris Johnson is set to be cleared of breaking the ministerial code by an internal Whitehall inquiry into a loan to redecorate his Downing Street residence but his conduct will be criticised, according to senior officials.

Lord Christopher Geidt, the independent adviser on ministers’ interests, has exchanged a series of letters in recent weeks with the prime minister over further revelations about a £58,000 donation from Lord David Brownlow to refurbish Johnson’s Number 11 Downing Street flat.

Although Geidt previously cleared Johnson of breaking the ministerial code over allegations of soliciting a donation from Brownlow, a recent Electoral Commission investigation revealed WhatsApp messages between Brownlow and Johnson.

Geidt has since re-examined his initial investigation to see whether he was misled by Johnson when the prime minister said he did not solicit a donation from Brownlow. Government insiders said Geidt had now seen all the relevant WhatsApp messages...

One senior official said: “Geidt makes clear the situation is a total mess. But at the same time the fundamental conclusion is that the PM did not deceive and did not break the ministerial code.”

Downing Street declined to comment.

The Cabinet Office, where Geidt’s office is based, said: “We don’t comment on speculation.”

https://www.ft.com/content/d47eaada-...6-d61e0a30a891
Interesting that you didn’t comment on this, Andrew - you must have bitten your lip when you posted it!

Just the parties to sort out now, and that’s the nasty, vindictive smears sorted out, for this time at least.

I wonder if people will ever start to draw the conclusion that it is these allegations spread by the Labour Party that are the real lies, not the PM.

Sephiroth 01-01-2022 18:54
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107699)
Interesting that you didn’t comment on this, Andrew - you must have bitten your lip when you posted it!

Just the parties to sort out now, and that’s the nasty, vindictive smears sorted out, for this time at least.

I wonder if people will ever start to draw the conclusion that it is these allegations spread by the Labour Party that are the real lies, not the PM.
Boris is a bad egg. The average person on the Clapham omnibus would think 'what does the donor want in return for a £58,000 drop?.

The letter of the rules - well maybe Boris wins that; the "seen to be proper" bit is doubtful.

OLD BOY 01-01-2022 19:26
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107702)
Boris is a bad egg. The average person on the Clapham omnibus would think 'what does the donor want in return for a £58,000 drop?.

The letter of the rules - well maybe Boris wins that; the "seen to be proper" bit is doubtful.
The average person on the Clapham omnibus is more concerned about the economy and their personal circumstances, I think you will find.

Sephiroth 01-01-2022 19:32
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107704)
The average person on the Clapham omnibus is more concerned about the economy and their personal circumstances, I think you will find.
... Nah - the average person on the Clapham omnibus likes a bit of scandal - and then frowns upon it. Boris is a buffoon and easy to frown upon.

OLD BOY 01-01-2022 19:34
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107706)
... Nah - the average person on the Clapham omnibus likes a bit of scandal - and then frowns upon it. Boris is a buffoon and easy to frown upon.
Yes, he’s a buffoon, but people will vote on the basis of what he achieves. That’s all that matters in the end.

TheDaddy 01-01-2022 19:39
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107702)
Boris is a bad egg. The average person on the Clapham omnibus would think 'what does the donor want in return for a £58,000 drop?.

The letter of the rules - well maybe Boris wins that; the "seen to be proper" bit is doubtful.
And Lord Get-It said the situation is a total mess, hardly a ringing endorsement of bozo is it, people are seeing bozo and his act for what they really are

Blackshep 01-01-2022 22:32
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Why is anyone surprised by anything that's going on boris the buffoon hasn't changed since he joined politics. He's always been a liar, he's always been happy to profit off of his position and he always screwed up more things then he's got right the man has the loyalty and honour of a garden slug he's not doing anything now he hasn't been doing for decades.

jfman 01-01-2022 22:43
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107707)
Yes, he’s a buffoon, but people will vote on the basis of what he achieves. That’s all that matters in the end.
People won’t be given another opportunity to vote for Boris and his achievements (or lack thereof). Steve Baker and his goons will see to that.

1andrew1 01-01-2022 23:20
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36107719)
People won’t be given another opportunity to vote for Boris and his achievements (or lack thereof). Steve Baker and his goons will see to that.
Biden has more chance of another term than Johnson.

Paul 01-01-2022 23:34
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Overall, I dont mind him, but I have to agree, his chances of still being PM by the next election seem slimmer now than they ever were.

Mad Max 02-01-2022 17:56
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107721)
Biden has more chance of another term than Johnson.
You've taken that too far..;)

OLD BOY 02-01-2022 18:27
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107721)
Biden has more chance of another term than Johnson.
No way! Johnson is the best choice we have at the moment. Unless the Conservative Party throws him out, he is the one to lead us into the next election, and he will win. There is simply no competition.

1andrew1 02-01-2022 20:07
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107791)
No way! Johnson is the best choice we have at the moment. Unless the Conservative Party throws him out, he is the one to lead us into the next election, and he will win. There is simply no competition.
Truss is far more popular amongst Party members than Johnson. However, she may have slipped up too.

Quote:
Liz Truss asked for public money to cover £3,000 lunch

Liz Truss, the current favourite to succeed Boris Johnson as leader of the Conservatives among party members, hosted a lunch at an expensive private club owned by a Tory donor after overruling civil service advice to look for a cheaper venue.

Leaked correspondence has revealed the foreign secretary “refused to consider anywhere else” and asked that public funds should pay for a £3,000 event with Joe Biden’s trade representative.

Civil servants were so concerned at the cost and the venue’s close links to the Tories that the proposal was referred to the most senior official at the Department for International Trade.

According to the correspondence [seen by the Sunday Times], Truss, then the trade secretary, “explicitly asked that we book 5 Hertford Street”, which is owned by Robin Birley, a £20,000 donor to Boris Johnson’s leadership campaign and the half-brother of Zac Goldsmith, the environment minister.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...?ocid=msedgntp

jfman 02-01-2022 20:08
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107791)
No way! Johnson is the best choice we have at the moment. Unless the Conservative Party throws him out, he is the one to lead us into the next election, and he will win. There is simply no competition.
I’m not sure he’s the best choice “we” have if even his own party deem him unsuitable to lead.

OLD BOY 02-01-2022 22:12
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36107807)
I’m not sure he’s the best choice “we” have if even his own party deem him unsuitable to lead.
Well, who then? Not Captain Hindsight, surely?!!

Carth 02-01-2022 22:18
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
I'd go for that Kim Jong-un chap, he'd soon sort out crime, internet abuse and unemployment . . . although a trade deal with the USA might be one to miss :D

OLD BOY 03-01-2022 10:06
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107805)
Truss is far more popular amongst Party members than Johnson. However, she may have slipped up too.


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...?ocid=msedgntp
Oh dear, we are really scraping the barrel now, aren't we?

---------- Post added at 11:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36107824)
I'd go for that Kim Jong-un chap, he'd soon sort out crime, internet abuse and unemployment . . . although a trade deal with the USA might be one to miss :D
Oh yes, he likes to blow up people expressing popular opinions, doesn't he? :D

Sephiroth 03-01-2022 10:28
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107846)
Oh dear, we are really scraping the barrel now, aren't we?

<SNIP>
From what I read in the ST version of this story, she could reasonably have been judged to be trying to support a Tory donor. There really is no other conclusion.

However, I'm satisfied that here civil servants handled this well and brought the price down to something that a political schmooze of this type needs.

jfman 03-01-2022 10:33
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107846)
Oh dear, we are really scraping the barrel now, aren't we?
For someone so grievously concerned by the administrative costs of the NHS may I be the first to express my surprise at your causal disregard for a Minister spending thousands from the public purse, at a venue they’ve never used before, that just to happens to be owned by Zac Goldsmith’s brother.

The most pertinent question - it it was all above board - is why the feeble excuse that it was the only venue available at short notice when it obviously was not?

---------- Post added at 11:33 ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107849)
she could reasonably have been judged to be trying to support a Tory donor. There really is no other conclusion.
Something we’d expect in a banana republic.

Sephiroth 03-01-2022 10:50
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36107850)
For someone so grievously concerned by the administrative costs of the NHS may I be the first to express my surprise at your causal disregard for a Minister spending thousands from the public purse, at a venue they’ve never used before, that just to happens to be owned by Zac Goldsmith’s brother.

The most pertinent question - it it was all above board - is why the feeble excuse that it was the only venue available at short notice when it obviously was not?

---------- Post added at 11:33 ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 ----------



Something we’d expect in a banana republic.
... it goes on everywhere., I'm sure.

OLD BOY 03-01-2022 12:13
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36107850)
For someone so grievously concerned by the administrative costs of the NHS may I be the first to express my surprise at your causal disregard for a Minister spending thousands from the public purse, at a venue they’ve never used before, that just to happens to be owned by Zac Goldsmith’s brother.

The most pertinent question - it it was all above board - is why the feeble excuse that it was the only venue available at short notice when it obviously was not?
She was aiming to impress a US trade minister. I’m sure we will get the money back in spades.

The NHS is a black hole.

1andrew1 03-01-2022 12:17
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
It certainly won't harm Sunak's chances of becoming next PM. People are fed up with corruption and don't want more of the same.

jfman 03-01-2022 12:26
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107860)
She was aiming to impress a US trade minister. I’m sure we will get the money back in spades.

The NHS is a black hole.
Nobody disputes that certain events merit locations of a certain stature. I’m sure the Foreign Office in particular have a list of places where Ambassadors and Ministers regularly hobnob away.

Whether the UK benefits from additional trade or otherwise is irrelevant unless it can be clearly demonstrated that only an establishment owned by a Conservative party donor would achieve that result at lowest cost to the taxpayer. It clearly cannot. Which makes it grubby.

Pin a red rosette on her in your mind and see if you still have the same opinion.

A black hole is an interesting way to describe universal healthcare.

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107862)
It certainly won't harm Sunak's chances of becoming next PM. People are fed up with corruption and don't want more of the same.
Comrade Rishi certainly seems the most likely puppet master of orchestrating Johnson’s downfall. Outside chance it could still be Gove who is missing in action.

1andrew1 03-01-2022 13:04
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107860)
She was aiming to impress a US trade minister. I’m sure we will get the money back in spades.
It obviously didn't work. The EU got Trump's 25% tariffs on steel removed. We failed to.

Hugh 03-01-2022 13:33
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107860)
She was aiming to impress a US trade minister. I’m sure we will get the money back in spades.

The NHS is a black hole.
That’ll be the reason…

Quote:
The venue has also been used by the Foreign Secretary, 46, to host 'Fizz with Liz' meetings to schmooze Tory MPs and 'Biz for Liz' events with potential financial backers for a leadership bid.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-diplomat.html

OLD BOY 03-01-2022 15:46
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107862)
It certainly won't harm Sunak's chances of becoming next PM. People are fed up with corruption and don't want more of the same.
Well, that’s all the Left can come up with. They have no ideas of their own to capture the public imagination.

The public will put all this in context by the time they next vote in a General Election.

---------- Post added at 16:46 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36107863)

A black hole is an interesting way to describe universal healthcare.
I was referring to the inefficient, creaking NHS, not universal care as a concept.

Hugh 03-01-2022 16:44
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107881)
Well, that’s all the Left can come up with. They have no ideas of their own to capture the public imagination.

The public will put all this in context by the time they next vote in a General Election.

---------- Post added at 16:46 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------



I was referring to the inefficient, creaking NHS, not universal care as a concept.
You keep asserting this, but never back it up with any evidence…

jfman 03-01-2022 16:45
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107881)
Well, that’s all the Left can come up with. They have no ideas of their own to capture the public imagination.

The public will put all this in context by the time they next vote in a General Election.
I’m sure you’ll still have the blinkers on between now and then.

OLD BOY 03-01-2022 18:31
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107894)
You keep asserting this, but never back it up with any evidence…
There are so many examples that I’m surprised you are asking for evidence. Or maybe I have a humour deficiency today and didn’t notice it was a joke.

jfman 03-01-2022 18:32
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107904)
There are so many examples that I’m surprised you are asking for evidence. Or maybe I have a humour deficiency today and didn’t notice it was a joke.
Just your usual evidence deficiency.

OLD BOY 03-01-2022 18:51
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
As I said, it’s been well documented.

Here’s an example but there are plenty more you can Google. This one relates to hospitals, and it’s from The Guardian, so it must be right! :D

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...illions-pounds

And what about with that layer of Primary Care Trust management that the Conservatives abolished, which isn’t missed all these years later.

What other organisation is granted more money and must then take on more managers to decide how to spend it?

You couldn’t make it up!

1andrew1 03-01-2022 19:00
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107907)
This one relates to hospitals, and it’s from The Guardian, so it must be right! :D
Hmm, anything in the last five years?

OLD BOY 03-01-2022 19:03
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107910)
Hmm, anything in the last five years?
It’s just one of many, Andrew; take your pick.

Maggy 03-01-2022 21:21
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107912)
It’s just one of many, Andrew; take your pick.
No.It's not on us to do your homework.You need to indicate where you are getting your information from or forever hold your peace.;)

Hugh 03-01-2022 21:54
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107904)
There are so many examples that I’m surprised you are asking for evidence. Or maybe I have a humour deficiency today and didn’t notice it was a joke.
No, just an evidence deficiency

1andrew1 03-01-2022 23:13
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107904)
There are so many examples that I’m surprised you are asking for evidence. Or maybe I have a humour deficiency today and didn’t notice it was a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36107905)
Just your usual evidence deficiency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107934)
No, just an evidence deficiency
Snap! :D

Julian 04-01-2022 05:00
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107944)
Snap! :D
It’s gettin’ it’s gettin’ it’s gettin’ kinda heavy……

Sephiroth 04-01-2022 08:27
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107894)
You keep asserting this, but never back it up with any evidence…
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Well, that’s all the Left can come up with. They have no ideas of their own to capture the public imagination.

The public will put all this in context by the time they next vote in a General Election.

---------- Post added at 16:46 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------



I was referring to the inefficient, creaking NHS, not universal care as a concept.
When some people (the usual suspects) have nothing better to say, they call for evidence in respect of the bleedin' obvious such as:

- Try getting a doctor's appointment without overcoming obstacles
- Try getting your cancer operation performed
- Find enough qualified people to staff the Nightingale hospitals
- Try obtaining Covid LFT packs (for the time being)

No link or research is required for the bleedin' obvious.

BenMcr 04-01-2022 08:33
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107907)
And what about with that layer of Primary Care Trust management that the Conservatives abolished, which isn’t missed all these years later.
I could suggest that PCTs aren't missed because the management of the services has just been moved around rather than a layer of management being removed completely.

https://www.bmj.com/bmj/section-pdf/...ature.full.pdf

Quote:
Under the new system commissioners have been stripped of responsibility for primary care and most specialist services, which go to the NHS Commissioning Board, while public health has gone to councils. This leaves CCGs with the £60bn part of the NHS budget that is most difficult to control—general acute care.
It's worth reading the whole article too to understand what PCTs managed to do (and what they didn't) during their time. I'm reading it purely as an outsider to the medical world, but it has some interesting points to make.

Pierre 04-01-2022 09:12
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107951)

No link or research is required for the bleedin' obvious.
Absolutely but to appease it takes about 5 seconds.

See attached. Just type in "NHS at Breaking Point" and you are presented with articles from every year reporting just that. Click on any year.

papa smurf 04-01-2022 09:18
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36107955)
Absolutely but to appease it takes about 5 seconds.

See attached. Just type in "NHS at Breaking Point" and you are presented with articles from every year reporting just that. Click on any year.
could be argued that it takes les time to hughgle the info than to complain about the lack of it
hope this helps ;)

Maggy 04-01-2022 09:21
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Some people have forgotten how to debate.Assertion is not debate. One needs to backup assertions with facts.Without links or guidance to the info it will fail to continue into debate.

Hugh 04-01-2022 09:24
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107951)
When some people (the usual suspects) have nothing better to say, they call for evidence in respect of the bleedin' obvious such as:

- Try getting a doctor's appointment without overcoming obstacles
- Try getting your cancer operation performed
- Find enough qualified people to staff the Nightingale hospitals
- Try obtaining Covid LFT packs (for the time being)

No link or research is required for the bleedin' obvious.
You appear to be confusing "inefficient" with "increasing demand, ageing population, half the number of hospital beds, not enough clinical and support staff, the Government removing Nurses Bursaries"…

Sometimes the "bleeding obvious" is just a misinformed opinion - like a large number of issues, people try to reduce very complex issues to simple problems, when this is not, in fact, true.

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36107957)
could be argued that it takes les time to hughgle the info than to complain about the lack of it
hope this helps ;)
As much as usual…

1andrew1 04-01-2022 10:21
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36107958)
Some people have forgotten how to debate.Assertion is not debate. One needs to backup assertions with facts.Without links or guidance to the info it will fail to continue into debate.
:clap::clap::clap:

---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107959)
You appear to be confusing "inefficient" with "increasing demand, ageing population, half the number of hospital beds, not enough clinical and support staff, the Government removing Nurses Bursaries"…

Sometimes the "bleeding obvious" is just a misinformed opinion - like a large number of issues, people try to reduce very complex issues to simple problems, when this is not, in fact, true
Spot on. What would be more helpful would be some kind of benchmarking to similar services.

Carth 04-01-2022 10:30
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36107958)
Some people have forgotten how to debate.Assertion is not debate. One needs to backup assertions with facts.Without links or guidance to the info it will fail to continue into debate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107963)
:clap::clap::clap:
Excellent . . . that may stop some people posting stuff from Twitter, Facebook etc as a means to 'proving' their point. Same with opinion pieces from the media and 'experts', and an article published by much of the media nowadays is about as trustworthy as a second hand car salesperson . . don't get me started on Government released info :D

BenMcr 04-01-2022 10:35
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36107966)
Same with opinion pieces from the media and 'experts', and an article published by much of the media nowadays is about as trustworthy as a second hand car salesperson . . don't get me started on Government released info :D
What sources does that actually leave that you would trust then?

Carth 04-01-2022 10:39
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36107967)
What sources does that actually leave that you would trust then?
Bugger all mate if I'm honest . . . . everyone is out to get you, and I'm a 'shoot first' type of bloke :D

Sephiroth 04-01-2022 11:06
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36107958)
Some people have forgotten how to debate.Assertion is not debate. One needs to backup assertions with facts.Without links or guidance to the info it will fail to continue into debate.
Disagree. The bleedin’ obvious can always be debated. The bleedin’ obvious is already a fact.


---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36107967)
What sources does that actually leave that you would trust then?
The Torygraph for one; never wrong. Farage for another and for a different reason. On medical matters, the BMJ. On the bleedin’ obvious, the common sense of others, some of whom just enjoy being difficult.


---------- Post added at 12:06 ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107959)
You appear to be confusing "inefficient" with "increasing demand, ageing population, half the number of hospital beds, not enough clinical and support staff, the Government removing Nurses Bursaries"…

Sometimes the "bleeding obvious" is just a misinformed opinion - like a large number of issues, people try to reduce very complex issues to simple problems, when this is not, in fact, true.
What are you on about? The list you provided is evidence to support my evidence - namely the bleedin’ obvious that the NHS is on its knees.

I never mentioned “inefficient” in the post to which you replied.

1andrew1 04-01-2022 11:14
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107970)
The Torygraph for one; never wrong.
The Telegraph is not as accurate as you might think.

Here's an example of how it's not never wrong. Not only did it publish significantly misleading information, it also tried to defend that significantly misleading information!

Quote:
An article by Toby Young for the Daily Telegraph was “significantly misleading” when it said that catching a cold could protect people from coronavirus and claimed that London was approaching herd immunity, the press regulator has ruled.

In a decision published on Thursday, the Independent Press Standards Organisation (Ipso) complaints committee ordered the Telegraph to publish a correction over the column, which was appeared in July last year under the headline: “When we have herd immunity Boris will face a reckoning on this pointless and damaging lockdown.”

It’s worth noting that this was not just a case of a mistake slipping through. Rather, the Daily Telegraph tried to defend the article to the regulator. But the regulator found a string of errors and refusals to correct:

The publication … misrepresented the nature of immunity and implied that people previously exposed to some common colds might be automatically immune to suffering symptoms and passing on Covid-19 to others … The publication did not offer to correct this significantly misleading statement …

The statement that cross-reactive T-cells mean “that the population of London is probably approaching herd immunity” was significantly misleading. It was misleading both as to how herd immunity is reached and whether it existed in London … the newspaper did not offer to correct this significantly misleading statement.
https://www.markpack.org.uk/166772/d...youngs-claims/

Sephiroth 04-01-2022 13:14
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107974)
The Telegraph is not as accurate as you might think.

Here's an example of how it's not never wrong. Not only did it publish significantly misleading information, it also tried to defend that significantly misleading information!


https://www.markpack.org.uk/166772/d...youngs-claims/
Well, more accurate than others.

Carth 04-01-2022 14:05
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107990)
Well, more accurate than others.
Not completely trustworthy then ;)

1andrew1 04-01-2022 14:15
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107990)
Well, more accurate than others.
Alas, on climate change, it's well behind The Times and Guardian for accuracy.
https://www.desmog.com/2021/08/17/da...ge-accurately/

papa smurf 04-01-2022 14:23
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107994)
Alas, on climate change, it's well behind The Times and Guardian for accuracy.
https://www.desmog.com/2021/08/17/da...ge-accurately/

" guardian for accuracy" :rofl: you are a wag andrew

Paul 04-01-2022 14:33
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Back to the topic ........

Hugh 22-11-2022 16:30
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2230665.html

Quote:
Former Tory MP Owen Paterson claims ‘unfair’ lobbying investigation breached his human rights

Brexiteer takes case to European Court of Human Rights – despite previously railing against Strasbourg influence

Former Conservative MP Owen Paterson has claimed that the lobbying investigation that sparked a government scandal ending with his resignation breached his human rights.

He has lodged a formal complaint with the European Court of Human Rights, which formally asked the British government to respond to his allegations on Tuesday.

Mr Paterson has complained to the Strasbourg court that his Article 8 rights under the UK Human Rights Act, relating to respecting his private and family life, had been infringed…

… Mr Paterson – a staunch Brexiteer who was a member of the Tories’ hardline European Research Group – had previously called for the UK to be “freed from the writ” of the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR).

In a 2014 speech, he said Brexit would allow for repeal of the Human Rights Act and allow Britain to “break free” from the Strasbourg Court which oversees the ECHR and human rights laws.

“Much of the problematical immigration into this country stems not just from the EU but from the European Convention of Human Rights,” Mr Paterson said.

GrimUpNorth 22-11-2022 18:43
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36140604)
Just shows how much of a slimeball he and his ilk truly are. I hope he loses and is ruined after being forced to pick up all the legal fees.

Mr K 22-11-2022 18:55
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36140604)
Brexiteer pleads to a European Court to save him, priceless......
Nearly as hypocritical as Farage's EU pension.

Paul 22-11-2022 19:10
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36140620)
Just shows how much of a slimeball he and his ilk truly are.
His ilk ? :sleep:

It shows what an ass he is, it has no relevance to anyone else.

1andrew1 22-11-2022 19:15
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
On the other hand, maybe like many people in the UK, he's changed his mind since 2014.

Julian 22-11-2022 20:17
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36140625)
On the other hand, maybe like many people in the UK, he's changed his mind since 2014.
That's only a minute before you posted. :D

GrimUpNorth 22-11-2022 20:49
Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36140622)
His ilk ? :sleep:

It shows what an ass he is, it has no relevance to anyone else.
Well let's see if any of his former cohort try to actively distance themselves. I think their silence and lack of condemnation will be deafening, after all it's the slime that makes the slimeballs stick together and they're all a chip off the same block.

If he was still an MP I wouldn't be surprised if he turned out to be one of the ones that would claim the cost of Christmas parties back on expenses. I expect there'll be some and I expect they'll be slimeballs too.


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