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-   -   US President Joe Biden (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709710)

heero_yuy 25-08-2021 09:10
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Quote from USA Today: After two decades of combat, Americans by more than 2-1 say the war in Afghanistan, launched in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, wasn't worth it. In a new USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll, 3 of 4 predict the Taliban-led country will once again become a haven for terrorists targeting the United States.

For President Joe Biden, the cost of the war's chaotic end has been steep. His overall job approval rating now stands at 41% who approve versus 55% who disapprove – a big drop in the closely watched barometer of political health. Until last week, national polls generally showed his approval rating above 50%.

Now, while he has held the backing of 87% of Democrats, only 32% of independents say he's doing a good job.
Doesn't look like Afghanistan is playing well with the public for Joe.

Damien 25-08-2021 18:39
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
The Delta variant is getting out of control there as well, worse than here was. Their vaccination rate slowed as they have a lot more anti-vaxxers and people intentionally making a point about not taking any precautions.

1andrew1 25-08-2021 19:13
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36090921)
The Delta variant is getting out of control there as well, worse than here was. Their vaccination rate slowed as they have a lot more anti-vaxxers and people intentionally making a point about not taking any precautions.
Even Trump was shouted down when he recently advocated vaccination at his Alabama rally so it seems a bit of an uphill battle there. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-covid-vaccine
Interesting to see some US companies like United Airlines responding by mandating vaccinations.

Dude111 26-08-2021 09:24
I have listened to his speeches and he bows down to the Taliban,lets them tell us what the US is going to do rather than being the other way around.

He is only giving them legitimacy. He believes that Americans are being allowed to enter the airport in Kabul (which conflicts data from people on the ground). These people have a dark history,especially towards Christians and women. But he trusts them,why?


EDIT:

Ahhhh I just realised why... They promised him ice cream!! (His favourite flavour: Strawberry)

papa smurf 26-08-2021 09:38
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
You find that people with dementia are very trusting of others and make bad decisions.

Maggy 26-08-2021 09:52
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
He's trying to get all those thousands of people out of Afghanistan and sticking to Trump's decision to leave.

Trump aged 75,Biden aged 78. So anyone care to tell me what 3 years difference actually makes? Speaking as someone who will be 69 in October. Especially as I'm pretty sure there's a fair few OAPs who post here on a regular basis . Especially in view of the fact they keep trying to raise the OAP age to 70 and above here.

papa smurf 26-08-2021 10:34
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36090986)
He's trying to get all those thousands of people out of Afghanistan and sticking to Trump's decision to leave.

Trump aged 75,Biden aged 78. So anyone care to tell me what 3 years difference actually makes? Speaking as someone who will be 69 in October. Especially as I'm pretty sure there's a fair few OAPs who post here on a regular basis . Especially in view of the fact they keep trying to raise the OAP age to 70 and above here.



That's because people are living longer and the gov is trying to get out of paying pensions, i retired at 61 couldn't imagine working any longer i was knackered, not all old people suffer from dementia but sadly joe does.
3 years of cognitive decline takes it's toll on a person i have seen it happen much quicker than that.

Chris 26-08-2021 10:55
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 (Post 36090975)
I have listened to his speeches and he bows down to the Taliban,lets them tell us what the US is going to do rather than being the other way around.

He is only giving them legitimacy. He believes that Americans are being allowed to enter the airport in Kabul (which conflicts data from people on the ground). These people have a dark history,especially towards Christians and women. But he trusts them,why?


EDIT:

Ahhhh I just realised why... They promised him ice cream!! (His favourite flavour: Strawberry)
Biden has argued for US withdrawal from Afghanistan for years. It’s almost an article of faith for him. So it’s not surprising he prizes anything that validates his point of view and tries to play down anything that does not (like his own generals warning him of the disaster that has now, in fact, unfolded).

You have to wonder, however, what Donald Trump was thinking, meeting the Taliban in Doha and telling them America would leave Afghanistan. Nothing gives a terrorist group more legitimacy than an American president signing a treaty with it in the presence of global media.

1andrew1 26-08-2021 12:07
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
I think Biden has painted himself into a corner - it's not that he's so trusting of the Taliban.

It's logical for the US and its allies to want to withdraw from occupied countries. But they should only do so once a country is left in sustainable, governable state. That clearly wasn't the case in Afghanistan.

BenMcr 26-08-2021 12:15
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36090996)
not all old people suffer from dementia but sadly joe does.
Verified source for that claim?

Maggy 26-08-2021 12:31
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36090999)
Biden has argued for US withdrawal from Afghanistan for years. It’s almost an article of faith for him. So it’s not surprising he prizes anything that validates his point of view and tries to play down anything that does not (like his own generals warning him of the disaster that has now, in fact, unfolded).

You have to wonder, however, what Donald Trump was thinking, meeting the Taliban in Doha and telling them America would leave Afghanistan. Nothing gives a terrorist group more legitimacy than an American president signing a treaty with it in the presence of global media.
:tu:

---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36091003)
Verified source for that claim?
:tu:

peanut 26-08-2021 12:54
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36091003)
Verified source for that claim?
I think I saw that it was also classed a 'non-public dementia'.

You've only got to look at the multiple (lots) of videos to make up your own judgement.

BenMcr 26-08-2021 13:07
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peanut (Post 36091010)
You've only got to look at the multiple (lots) of videos to make up your own judgement.
I wasn't aware that's how medical diagnosis worked?

GP appointments would be so much quicker 'Hi Peanut, we don't need to run any tests or scans for your medical concern. Some random people on the internet have looked at some videos of you and said you're fine / got problem x"

Carth 26-08-2021 13:10
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36091002)
I think Biden has painted himself into a corner - it's not that he's so trusting of the Taliban.

It's logical for the US and its allies to want to withdraw from occupied countries. But they should only do so once a country is left in sustainable, governable state. That clearly wasn't the case in Afghanistan.
How much longer do you think they needed to reach that requirement?

peanut 26-08-2021 13:10
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36091012)
I wasn't aware that's how medical diagnosis worked?

GP appointments would be so much quicker 'Hi Peanut, we don't need to run any tests or scans for your medical concern. I've had a look at some video of you and you're fine."
Yeah spot on, that's exactly how it's going for him so far.

1andrew1 26-08-2021 13:25
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36091014)
How much longer do you think they needed to reach that requirement?
That's related less to time and more to competence in the planning and execution of the development of the state.

Carth 26-08-2021 13:44
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36091016)
That's related less to time and more to competence in the planning and execution of the development of the state.
Politicians answer . . . which means you don't have a clue but like to seem informed :p:

Come on, try again . . just a guess will do . . after 15 years or more, how much longer does it take to teach a nation to ride a bike without the use of stabilizers? :D

downquark1 26-08-2021 13:48
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 (Post 36090975)
I have listened to his speeches and he bows down to the Taliban,lets them tell us what the US is going to do rather than being the other way around.

He is only giving them legitimacy. He believes that Americans are being allowed to enter the airport in Kabul (which conflicts data from people on the ground). These people have a dark history,especially towards Christians and women. But he trusts them,why?


EDIT:

Ahhhh I just realised why... They promised him ice cream!! (His favourite flavour: Strawberry)
He doesn't trust them but they have him over a barrel and he is trying his best to not provoke them.

1andrew1 26-08-2021 13:55
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36091020)
Politicians answer . . . which means you don't have a clue but like to seem informed :p:

Come on, try again . . just a guess will do . . after 15 years or more, how much longer does it take to teach a nation to ride a bike without the use of stabilizers? :D
I don't pretend to know but I'm sure there are case studies of other countries around for you to read.

mrmistoffelees 26-08-2021 13:58
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36091020)
Politicians answer . . . which means you don't have a clue but like to seem informed :p:

Come on, try again . . just a guess will do . . after 15 years or more, how much longer does it take to teach a nation to ride a bike without the use of stabilizers? :D
As long as the US has maintained a presence in Germany or South Korea?

Carth 26-08-2021 14:25
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36091024)
As long as the US has maintained a presence in Germany or South Korea?
Germany isn't a good comparison to Afghanistan . . . or maybe it is :D

mrmistoffelees 26-08-2021 16:40
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36091031)
Germany isn't a good comparison to Afghanistan . . . or maybe it is :D


Indeed, not much of a presence required there... well, apart from putting up a front to the Russians. Yet strangely, we have a suicide bomber at Kabul airport today, with many dead and US forces apparently injured...... this should be in the other thread, apologies..

Taf 26-08-2021 16:46
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 (Post 36090975)
Ahhhh I just realised why... They promised him ice cream!! (His favourite flavour: Strawberry)
No trouble with brain freeze with that guy.

papa smurf 26-08-2021 18:17
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
'Four US Marines killed' after TWO blasts in Kabul - Many injured in attack


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-Kabul-airport

Itshim 26-08-2021 18:41
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
The man's a fool that's why

jfman 26-08-2021 20:21
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Nobody trusts them, but America wants to cut and run in the process the bold Don started.

Deaths were absolutely inevitable. If you run away from people you've been shooting at don't be surprised if they shoot you in the back.

Edit: Sleepy Joe speaking at 10 UK time.

Mick 26-08-2021 22:22
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
No idea why people think we need another Biden thread when we have one already. 2nd thread merged with his main one here.

Dude111 26-08-2021 22:30
Im sorry Mick thank you.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf
You find that people with dementia are very trusting of others and make bad decisions.
Yes sadly so!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I think Biden has painted himself into a corner - it's not that he's so trusting of the Taliban.
Ya many are saying he should resign!

Mick 26-08-2021 22:38
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 (Post 36091083)

Ya many are saying he should resign!
He should but then we'd be left with Cackling Kamila. :rolleyes:

jfman 26-08-2021 22:52
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
WTF was that on the microphones.

Has another meeting now…

TheDaddy 27-08-2021 00:13
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36091051)
'Four US Marines killed' after TWO blasts in Kabul - Many injured in attack
It's 13 now, worst loss of American life out there for 6 years. Everyone blamed Trump for this but I think Biden would have done this all by himself regardless, it was actually convenient for him that donny laid the ground work

Pierre 27-08-2021 08:34
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36091094)
It's 13 now, worst loss of American life out there for 6 years. Everyone blamed Trump for this but I think Biden would have done this all by himself regardless, it was actually convenient for him that donny laid the ground work
you can't blame Trump, he is not overseeing the withdrawl.

jfman 27-08-2021 08:42
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36091110)
you can't blame Trump, he is not overseeing the withdrawl.
That’s like blaming the guy who caught a grenade because he didn’t pull the pin.

papa smurf 27-08-2021 09:11
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Trump wanted to Make America Great Again

joe has made the Taliban Great Again.

Hugh 27-08-2021 09:33
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36091114)
Trump wanted to Make America Great Again

joe has made the Taliban Great Again.
I don’t remember Biden getting 5000 Taliban prisoners released as part of a deal (including their current leader).

Pretty sure The Former Guy’s deal made the Taliban Great Again…

Afghan conflict: US and Taliban sign deal to end 18-year war https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51689443

1andrew1 27-08-2021 09:39
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36091110)
you can't blame Trump, he is not overseeing the withdrawl.
No, the Taliban are.

Pierre 27-08-2021 11:08
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36091116)
No, the Taliban are.
I didn't realise that the Taliban had taken command of the Whitehouse and of the US forces.

Carth 27-08-2021 12:40
Re: Why is Biden so trusting of the Taliban?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36091125)
I didn't realise that the Taliban had taken command of the Whitehouse and of the US forces.
Nah, the Ruskies still have it ;)

Damien 27-08-2021 13:51
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Trump wanted to leave earlier and was the one who signed this 'deal' with the Taliban.

But the Talian broke the deal anyway so there was nothing stopping Biden from overturning it and there was nothing stopping Biden from ignoring Trump's deadline (he did push it back after all). There have been plenty of things he has already ignored.

Biden ultimately took the decisions that have led to this disaster. Biden wanted to leave as well.

Chris 27-08-2021 13:57
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Indeed.

Trump's grandstanding in Doha was bordering on the megalomania. He is guilty of plenty and he is certainly guilty of inciting the Taliban by giving them legitimacy and political cover for what they have done over the past couple of weeks.

But none of it would have happened had Joe Biden accepted that now was not a good time to withdraw American forces from Afghanistan. He and he alone is responsible for dropping millions of Afghans, not to mention international allies who are there in support of America because of America's invocation of Nato treaty article 5, in some very deep smegola indeed.

1andrew1 27-08-2021 14:20
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36091149)
Indeed.

Trump's grandstanding in Doha was bordering on the megalomania. He is guilty of plenty and he is certainly guilty of inciting the Taliban by giving them legitimacy and political cover for what they have done over the past couple of weeks.

But none of it would have happened had Joe Biden accepted that now was not a good time to withdraw American forces from Afghanistan. He and he alone is responsible for dropping millions of Afghans, not to mention international allies who are there in support of America because of America's invocation of Nato treaty article 5, in some very deep smegola indeed.
Biden was obsessed by quitting by 11th September - 9/11 - according to several commentators.

Chris 27-08-2021 14:27
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
I'd heard that too. However this was reckless even for a country whose politics is driven by PR.

Damien 27-08-2021 14:36
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
What better way to commemorate 9/11 than having the Taliban reinstalled in Afghanistan eh? Almost has a nice symmetry to it.

downquark1 27-08-2021 15:13
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
It is worth pointing out that this mess doesn't indicate the past few months have been botched but rather the whole 20 years of nation building in Afghanistan was botched. Since there isn't in fact a nation that can survive a week without an occupying military.

Maggy 27-08-2021 15:28
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by downquark1 (Post 36091160)
It is worth pointing out that this mess doesn't indicate the past few months have been botched but rather the whole 20 years of nation building in Afghanistan was botched. Since there isn't in fact a nation that can survive a week without an occupying military.
:tu:

1andrew1 27-08-2021 16:21
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36091156)
What better way to commemorate 9/11 than having the Taliban reinstalled in Afghanistan eh? Almost has a nice symmetry to it.
America will be commemorating 9/11 by tracking down the terrorists who killed Americans on 8/26 at Kabul Airport.

papa smurf 27-08-2021 16:48
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36091168)
America will be commemorating 9/11 by tracking down the terrorists who killed Americans on 8/26 at Kabul Airport.
Don't hold your breath, they are just empty words.

Chris 27-08-2021 16:49
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36091168)
America will be commemorating 9/11 by tracking down the terrorists who killed Americans on 8/26 at Kabul Airport.
Only if they can spot and engage them from a high-altitude drone without any significant intelligence from ground operations. They really have reduced their ability to operate in Afghanistan pretty much to zero.

1andrew1 27-08-2021 17:06
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36091173)
Don't hold your breath, they are just empty words.
I was being sarcastic. ;)

papa smurf 27-08-2021 17:07
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36091176)
I was being sarcastic. ;)
needs work ;)

Dude111 27-08-2021 17:46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
I didn't realise that the Taliban had taken command of the Whitehouse and of the US forces.
No one knows it publicly yet!

peanut 27-08-2021 18:07
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Biden is well out of his depth. It's embarrassing and shameful to watch.

Hugh 27-08-2021 18:13
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36091125)
I didn't realise that the Taliban had taken command of the Whitehouse and of the US forces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 (Post 36091180)
No one knows it publicly yet!
Well, they were going to visit Camp David…

Pierre 27-08-2021 22:03
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
I don’t think the Taliban will tolerate anything….camp.

It’s a circle that can’t be squared, the left love Muslims as an oppressed minority, but nothing, I mean nothing, of the Islamic faith aligns with progressive leftist ideology.


Still I’ll wait until I hear from the Taliban spokesman ( and it will be a man) on LBGTQAI+* issues before I comment.

* yes they’ve added two more letters recently, it now no longer represents minorities and is just a bad Scrabble hand.

Carth 28-08-2021 00:10
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
The LBGTQAI is breeding (somehow) and become LGBTQIAPK, so scrabble is out and we're approaching 'countdown' territory . . . a couple more vowels needed I reckon ;)

Mick 28-08-2021 04:11
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
BREAKING: U.S launches drone attack against 'ISIS-K planner' in Afghanistan, target apparently killed, Pentagon says

papa smurf 28-08-2021 08:48
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36091212)
BREAKING: U.S launches drone attack against 'ISIS-K planner' in Afghanistan, target apparently killed, Pentagon says
They've probably killed some poor farmer just to save biden's ass

Chris 28-08-2021 09:03
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Well Biden will be keen to be seen doing something positive so I guess something like this was inevitable. But only the truly gullible will believe America can still contain the Islamist threat in Afghanistan via high-altitude drones.

Mick 30-08-2021 21:40
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
BREAKING: Final U.S Plane leaves Kabul Airport in Afghanistan. Ending the 20 year war in the country.

Thanks to Joe Biden, a new era of Terrorism begins. Democrats always screw things up.

Chris 30-08-2021 21:46
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
In this case, Democrats failed to reverse a Republican screw-up, then made it worse. But it’s academic now.

nomadking 30-08-2021 21:55
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36091383)
In this case, Democrats failed to reverse a Republican screw-up, then made it worse. But it’s academic now.
:confused:Actually Obama started the process.
Link
Quote:
President Barack Obama had promised to end the war, so on Dec. 28, 2014, U.S. and NATO officials held a ceremony at their headquarters in Kabul to mark the occasion.
...
In a statement, Obama called the day “a milestone for our country” and said the United States was safer and more secure after 13 years of war.
“Thanks to the extraordinary sacrifices of our men and women in uniform, our combat mission in Afghanistan is ending and the longest war in American history is coming to a responsible conclusion,” he declared.
...
Obama had scaled back military operations over the previous three years, but he failed to pull the United States out of the quagmire. At the time of the ceremony, about 10,800 U.S. troops remained, a decrease of almost 90 percent from the surge of forces that he had sent to Afghanistan in his first term. Obama promised to withdraw the rest of the troops by the end of 2016, coinciding with the end of his term in office, save for a residual force at the U.S. Embassy.
Trump maintained the presence. Why didn't Obama fulfil his promise to withdraw all troops?

Chris 30-08-2021 22:13
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36091385)
:confused:Actually Obama started the process.
Link
Trump maintained the presence. Why didn't Obama fulfil his promise to withdraw all troops?
I don’t especially care what Obama’s reasons were. The point is moot. You have however illustrated my point for me, so thank you for that.

Promises can be reneged upon when the facts on the ground change. Biden could have rowed back on the US commitment to get out of Kabul but chose not to so as to nod towards a date on the calendar.

Trump set in train a disastrous series of events by promising a group of armed religious fanatics that he would get American forces out of the country they wished to rule, giving them ample time to plan how to exploit the situation. Biden allowed those events to come to their inevitable climax because he was so fixated on the historic opportunity presented by associating his name with 9/11 he was deaf to all advice from well-informed people who only wanted to tell him things he didn’t want to hear.

Mick 30-08-2021 22:15
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36091385)
:confused:Actually Obama started the process.
Link
Trump maintained the presence. Why didn't Obama fulfil his promise to withdraw all troops?
So as I said, Democrats always screw things up. Had Trump won, he will have departed but in not so gung-ho fashion. He would never have allowed the Taliban to bully and allow them to be calling the shots and Biden has chickened out like a sissy.

Think I agree with one of the mothers, of one of the 13 U.S Marines killed in Kabul, last week, “Joe Biden, is feckless, dementia-ridden piece of crap.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-attack.html?

nomadking 30-08-2021 22:18
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36091388)
I don’t especially care what Obama’s reasons were. The point is moot. You have however illustrated my point for me, so thank you for that.

Promises can be reneged upon when the facts on the ground change. Biden could have rowed back on the US commitment to get out of Kabul but chose not to so as to nod towards a date on the calendar.

Trump set in train a disastrous series of events by promising a group of armed religious fanatics that he would get American forces out of the country they wished to rule, giving them ample time to plan how to exploit the situation. Biden allowed those events to come to their inevitable climax because he was so fixated on the historic opportunity presented by associating his name with 9/11 he was deaf to all advice from well-informed people who only wanted to tell him things he didn’t want to hear.
Obama promised to get all the forces out, and reduced them by 90% before then. That reduction alone allowed the Taliban to flourish.

Carth 30-08-2021 22:23
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Question:

Do you think anyone will learn from this?

Mick 30-08-2021 22:31
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
BREAKING: WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S General says some American citizens who wanted to leave Afghanistan remain in country after US departure, as Taliban proclaim 'full independence' of Afghanistan after last U.S. troops fly out.

Absolutely reprehensible, that any leader of a Country can abandon it’s own citizens in that hell hole. Impeach 46.

Hugh 30-08-2021 22:41
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
https://apnews.com/article/islamic-s...35999f41733161

Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States has the capacity to evacuate the approximately 300 U.S. citizens remaining in Afghanistan who want to leave before President Joe Biden’s Tuesday deadline, senior Biden administration officials said Sunday, as another U.S. drone strike against suspected Islamic State militants underscored the grave threat in the war’s final days.

“This is the most dangerous time in an already extraordinarily dangerous mission these last couple of days,” America’s top diplomat, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, said not long before confirmation of that airstrike in Kabul, the capital.

The evacuation flow of Americans kept pace even as a new State Department security alert, issued hours before the military action, instructed people to leave the airport area immediately “due to a specific, credible threat.”

Biden’s national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, said that for those U.S. citizens seeking immediately to leave Afghanistan by the looming deadline, “we have the capacity to have 300 Americans, which is roughly the number we think are remaining, come to the airport and get on planes in the time that is remaining. We moved out more than that number just yesterday. So from our point of view, there is an opportunity right now for American citizens to come, to be admitted to the airport and to be evacuated safely and effectively.”

Sullivan said the U.S. does not currently plan to have an ongoing embassy presence after the final U.S. troop withdrawal. But he pledged the U.S. “will make sure there is safe passage for any American citizen, any legal permanent resident” after Tuesday, as well as for “those Afghans who helped us.” But untold numbers of vulnerable Afghans, fearful of a return to the brutality of pre-2001 Taliban rule, are likely to be left behind.

Blinken said the U.S. was working with other countries in the region to either keep the Kabul airport open after Tuesday or to reopen it “in a timely fashion.”

He also said that while the airport is critical, “there are other ways to leave Afghanistan, including by road and many countries border Afghanistan.” The U.S., he said, is “making sure that we have in place all of the necessary tools and means to facilitate the travel for those who seek to leave Afghanistan” after Tuesday.

There also are roughly 280 others who have said they are Americans but who have told the State Department they plan to remain in the country or are still undecided. According to the latest totals, about 114,000 people have been evacuated since the Taliban takeover on Aug. 14, including approximately 2,900 on military and coalition flights during the 24 hours ending at 3 a.m. on Sunday.

Chris 30-08-2021 23:13
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36091391)
Obama promised to get all the forces out, and reduced them by 90% before then. That reduction alone allowed the Taliban to flourish.
Irrelevant to the matter at hand, but thanks for the observation anyway.

nomadking 30-08-2021 23:29
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36091399)
Irrelevant to the matter at hand, but thanks for the observation anyway.
How is Obama reducing troops by 90% and promising to get them all out and not doing so, better than Trump not getting them all out? The process started under Obama and the Democrats, and didn't progress under Trump. It only progressed again, when the Democrats came back to power.
Link
Quote:
28 December 2014: Nato ends its combat operations in Afghanistan. With the surge now over, the US withdraws thousands of troops. Most of those who remain focus on training and supporting the Afghan security forces
29 February 2020: The US and the Taliban sign an “agreement for bringing peace” to Afghanistan, in Doha, Qatar. The US and Nato allies agree to withdraw all troops within 14 months if the militants uphold the deal
13 April 2021: US president Joe Biden announces that all US troops will leave Afghanistan by 11 September that year
Biden announced it 4 months ago. hardly a surprise.

TheDaddy 30-08-2021 23:30
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
I keep hearing a hourly radio news report where Biden is declaring Ida a disaster and every time it sounds like he's about to declare himself a disaster.

Mick 31-08-2021 07:10
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Latest Quote From a U.S Service Academy graduate:

Quote:
“Our government is garbage... ****ing grossly, criminally, negligent garbage”

Chris 31-08-2021 07:35
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36091400)
How is Obama reducing troops by 90% and promising to get them all out and not doing so, better than Trump not getting them all out? The process started under Obama and the Democrats, and didn't progress under Trump. It only progressed again, when the Democrats came back to power.
Link
Biden announced it 4 months ago. hardly a surprise.
Irrelevant to the question of whether Biden could or should have reversed Trump’s deal with the Taliban.

But by all means, go on shouting at yourself in the corner. ;)

Mr K 31-08-2021 08:02
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36091411)
Latest Quote From a U.S Service Academy graduate:
Well the unamed/unsourced graduate wants to have a word with ex-President Trump who made the withdrawal decision (probably whilst on a golf course, after a particularly bad round...)

BenMcr 31-08-2021 10:01
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36091412)
Irrelevant to the question of whether Biden could or should have reversed Trump’s deal with the Taliban.

But by all means, go on shouting at yourself in the corner. ;)
Back in January the 'experts say' report was that if the May 1 date from Trump's deal wasn't kept, then you'd get violence anyway

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...liban-n1256227
Quote:
Any delay in a U.S. troop pull-out could trigger an escalation of violence and prompt the Taliban to abandon peace negotiations with its adversaries in the Kabul government, former U.S. officials and military officers say.

mrmistoffelees 31-08-2021 10:22
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2021/08/3.jpg


And here's the photo of the last U.S. soldier leaving Afghanistan

nomadking 31-08-2021 10:45
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36091412)
Irrelevant to the question of whether Biden could or should have reversed Trump’s deal with the Taliban.

But by all means, go on shouting at yourself in the corner. ;)
1) There wasn't much of an Army presence anyway, as a result of Obama's decision, ie 90% reduction.The remaining troops were just supporting the Afghan army, not fighting.
2) It's one of the few things that Biden didn't reverse.
3) NATO allies also agreed to the Feb 2020 agreement.
4) The announcement of the timing for full withdrawal, was more than 4 months ago. Everybody knew it was coming soon round about now. It shouldn't have come as much of a surprise.
All examples of facts.

Mick 31-08-2021 10:54
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36091415)
Well the unamed/unsourced graduate wants to have a word with ex-President Trump who made the withdrawal decision (probably whilst on a golf course, after a particularly bad round...)
Pathetic from you as usual, you clearly like dying on the same hill for posting utter nonsense.

Mr K. Did you miss the 20th Jan inauguration where Biden was sworn in as President, he had ample time to reverse his predecessors policy. He didn’t and then fecked it up big time, Biden then runs from the press coz he sucks at PR.

Chris 31-08-2021 11:03
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36091433)
1) There wasn't much of an Army presence anyway, as a result of Obama's decision, ie 90% reduction.The remaining troops were just supporting the Afghan army, not fighting.
2) It's one of the few things that Biden didn't reverse.
3) NATO allies also agreed to the Feb 2020 agreement.
4) The announcement of the timing for full withdrawal, was more than 4 months ago. Everybody knew it was coming soon round about now. It shouldn't have come as much of a surprise.
All examples of facts.
You’ve always been quite competent at assembling lists of facts. I just don’t rate your ability to move beyond that to forming a compelling, relevant argument that develops the discussion. As is the case here.

mrmistoffelees 31-08-2021 11:10
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36091433)
1) There wasn't much of an Army presence anyway, as a result of Obama's decision, ie 90% reduction.The remaining troops were just supporting the Afghan army, not fighting.
2) It's one of the few things that Biden didn't reverse.
3) NATO allies also agreed to the Feb 2020 agreement.
4) The announcement of the timing for full withdrawal, was more than 4 months ago. Everybody knew it was coming soon round about now. It shouldn't have come as much of a surprise.
All examples of facts.

Shame there's $62Bn's worth of military kit that is now in the possession of the Taliban. Including Black Hawk choppers, but the Taliban can't fly those.

Uh oh, wait a minute.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/160099..._source=pushly

Carth 31-08-2021 11:18
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Much of that hardware wouldn't be in the hands of the Taliban if, and I'll say it again, the Afghanistan owners of it (given by the US) hadn't turned tail and ran instead of fighting for their country.

Of course, those that capitulated but didn't 'run' were quite handy for the Taliban to have around, considering they'd been trained to fly the damn things.

mrmistoffelees 31-08-2021 12:06
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36091442)
Much of that hardware wouldn't be in the hands of the Taliban if, and I'll say it again, the Afghanistan owners of it (given by the US) hadn't turned tail and ran instead of fighting for their country.

Of course, those that capitulated but didn't 'run' were quite handy for the Taliban to have around, considering they'd been trained to fly the damn things.

Easy to say when you're not one of the thoroughly demoralized Afghan soldiers who haven't been paid in months and were incredibly low in things such as rations etc.

Carth 31-08-2021 12:32
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36091459)
Easy to say when you're not one of the thoroughly demoralized Afghan soldiers who haven't been paid in months and were incredibly low in things such as rations etc.
. . . if that's true (and I'm not saying it isn't), then the people running the show - the Afghanistan leadership - maybe weren't the right people to be supporting after all?

Quite possibly then, we were batting for the bad guys all along :D

mrmistoffelees 31-08-2021 12:57
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36091465)
. . . if that's true (and I'm not saying it isn't), then the people running the show - the Afghanistan leadership - maybe weren't the right people to be supporting after all?

Quite possibly then, we were batting for the bad guys all along :D
Well known fact that this is the case unfortunately.

IIRC the ex Afghani president was released from prison by the US in order to become president, i could be wrong here...

Hugh 31-08-2021 13:01
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36091465)
. . . if that's true (and I'm not saying it isn't), then the people running the show - the Afghanistan leadership - maybe weren't the right people to be supporting after all?

Quite possibly then, we were batting for the bad guys all along :D
I think the choice was between corrupt politicians who pretended to believe in democracy whilst lining their pockets, and extremist militants - it was the (slightly) lesser of two evils.

We’re talking about a country with no real history of democracy, ruled by despots and warlords (yes, I mean Afghanistan).

Maggy 31-08-2021 13:15
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
The history of Afghanistan is a very depressing one.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...ne-afghanistan

Carth 31-08-2021 13:50
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36091472)
I think the choice was between corrupt politicians who pretended to believe in democracy whilst lining their pockets, and extremist militants - it was the (slightly) lesser of two evils.

We’re talking about a country with no real history of democracy, ruled by despots and warlords (yes, I mean Afghanistan).
With a history of 'kicking the arse' of those who thought they could change things.

It's going to be interesting to see how the Taliban govern, especially with a couple of 'home grown' factions already showing displeasure at the new top dogs.

downquark1 31-08-2021 13:57
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
The Afghan army was much smaller than it was suppose to be since Generals were reporting higher numbers and pocketing the pay from the Americans.
They were under supplied because the American weaponry was incredibly valuable (compared to local wages) and would go missing to appear on black markets.

On top of that, the flavour of Islam in Afghanistan believes in a form of fate. When they believe something is going one way they believe they can't change the outcome but can control how they get there, i.e. alive by surrendering or dead fighting a useless cause.

Mr K 31-08-2021 15:09
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36091436)
Pathetic from you as usual, you clearly like dying on the same hill for posting utter nonsense.

Mr K. Did you miss the 20th Jan inauguration where Biden was sworn in as President, he had ample time to reverse his predecessors policy. He didn’t and then fecked it up big time, Biden then runs from the press coz he sucks at PR.
What is pathetic Mick, is that if Donnie had been inaugerated, you'd doubtless be defending him to the hilt for following through on his agreement with the Taliban to withdraw....

Both the US Presidents have failed big time. Partisanship doesn't work on this as they both had the same policy.

It's the US that has let the World down again (and us of course as it's obedient little side kick).

TheDaddy 31-08-2021 16:07
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36091479)
With a history of 'kicking the arse' of those who thought they could change things.
I don't think that entirely accurate at all, putting aside British successes there last century and the one before the ones who suffered most under Soviet intervention were the Afghans themselves, much like now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36091496)
What is pathetic Mick, is that if Donnie had been inaugerated, you'd doubtless be defending him to the hilt for following through on his agreement with the Taliban to withdraw....

Both the US Presidents have failed big time. Partisanship doesn't work on this as they both had the same policy.

It's the US that has let the World down again (and us of course as it's obedient little side kick).
Donny wanted them out earlier at least he could be distracted by power point though, we can blame Donny all we want for this fiasco but it wasn't him who implemented his daft plan it was Biden and the buck stops with him imo.

I don't necessarily understand why everyone else cut and ran because the Americans did, I'd like someone to ask Bozo why Nato couldn't continue propping up the Afghan army without them?

Carth 31-08-2021 16:26
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Did we win? Did the USA win? Did the Russians win?

If the answer to any of those is 'yes', what did we win?

BenMcr 31-08-2021 16:32
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36091510)
I'd like someone to ask Bozo why Nato couldn't continue propping up the Afghan army without them?
Do you think you could have persuaded all of these countries to stay without the support of the US?

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2...M-Placemat.pdf

pip08456 31-08-2021 16:40
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36091520)
Do you think you could have persuaded all of these countries to stay without the support of the US?

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2...M-Placemat.pdf
NATO went in to support a fellow member, as soon as that member decided it was no longer necessary to stay NATO had no reason or mandate to remain.

TheDaddy 31-08-2021 18:09
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36091517)
Did we win? Did the USA win? Did the Russians win?

If the answer to any of those is 'yes', what did we win?
Yes we did actually, two outta three and the one we lost (the first) we sent an army of retribution to punish them and free prisoners

---------- Post added at 18:09 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36091520)
Do you think you could have persuaded all of these countries to stay without the support of the US?

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2...M-Placemat.pdf
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36091526)
NATO went in to support a fellow member, as soon as that member decided it was no longer necessary to stay NATO had no reason or mandate to remain.
It's true but given how low the numbers of troops stationed there just seems a shame we couldn't have done something

pip08456 31-08-2021 19:22
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36091546)


It's true but given how low the numbers of troops stationed there just seems a shame we couldn't have done something
Such as what against a regime change and an enemy at the gates of the airport?

TheDaddy 31-08-2021 21:04
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36091568)
Such as what against a regime change and an enemy at the gates of the airport?
They weren't at the gates until we started to leave and it became clear we wouldn't do anything to stop them

Maggy 31-08-2021 22:15
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/31/w...ithdrawal.html

Quote:
Mr. Biden appeared intent on forcefully rejecting criticism of the end of the 20-year war in Afghanistan, offering a defensive recounting of his decision-making and blaming former President Donald J. Trump for negotiating a bad deal with the Taliban that boxed Mr. Biden and his team in.

“That was the choice, the real choice between leaving or escalating,” Mr. Biden declared, his tone angry and defensive as he opened the first minutes of his remarks. “I was not going to extend this forever war.”

papa smurf 01-09-2021 08:41
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36091586)
Angry with himself for making such a monumental fudge up of leaving, and as he says the buck stops with the commander in chief.

heero_yuy 02-09-2021 10:33
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Quote from Rod Liddle: Gradually, the Americans are realising that they have elected a weak, self-serving idiot to be their President.

You have to say, it’s taken them long enough to realise.

So desperate were the media and luvvies to get rid of Donald Trump they latched upon a semi-senile, perpetually dozing dork to replace him.

The signs were all there long before he was elected. At times he couldn’t remember the names of his own family.

He seemed to nod off in the middle of speeches. And there were the occasional snippets of racism.

Such as suggesting a black person couldn’t be a conservative.

But Afghanistan has opened the eyes of the country to the sheer cosmic uselessness of Joe Biden. A man who would do anything to save his own skin, too.

The USA was right to leave Afghanistan, sure. Donald Trump himself put that decision in train. But never in the manner that this has been done.

If Trump — whose foreign policy record was pretty good — had failed even half as spectacularly as Biden, the media would be calling for his head.
Nailed it.

Maggy 02-09-2021 11:16
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
And can anyone tell me how Trump would have handled it any better?

mrmistoffelees 02-09-2021 11:21
Re: US President Joe Biden
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36091812)
And can anyone tell me how Trump would have handled it any better?
Attempting to justify/moderate someones or a groups failure due to another individual's or groups potential failure at the same task isn't IMHO a valid metric.

The same argument is often used to validate Boris's handling of situations by decrying that 'labour would have done it worse'


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