Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

'The Court is bound to conclude, therefore, that the decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification.


It's there, in black and white. Your beloved Boris attempted to subvert and stop due democratic process from occurring. If that's not corrupt then i don't know what is ?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

You’re overinterpreting your own quote a little.

In the portion of the judgment you have quoted, the court is observing the effect of the prorogation, not attributing motive. I’m not in a position to read the judgment for myself at the moment, so perhaps the judgment condemns BoJo’s motivations elsewhere, but in the section you have presented, it does not do so.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I've scanned over the full reading this morning (however not at any particular depth) and it condemns his actions severely. The unanimous decision more so....

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Of course he's not 'corrupt'! Talk about over-egging it!

Yes, it had the 'effect' of frustrating parliament. As for 'reasonable justification, I assume that Boris thought it was reasonable because of the conference season and the Queen's Speech. You can argue that he was wrong in that belief, but calling it corruption is typical of the inappropriate language being used in this debate.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

It was the impact of the prorogation that was being criticised.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Absolute and utter twaddle

His advice to the Queen was UNLAWFUL he is quite simply corrupt.

He has been weighed, he has been measured & he has been found wanting.


Stop trying to defend the indefensible, which is precisely what his actions in this matter have been

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Of course he is corrupt. He tried to exploit a process to close down Parliament to avoid scrutiny. As judged by the highest court in this land.

The work of a tin pot dictator.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

What sort of country would do that?

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...-land-15790370

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

oh, same as has been going on by certain politicians and parties to thwart something else then . .

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Excuse me, he is not my Beloved Boris, I didn't vote for him and he was not my choice for PM, so less of this tone.

Secondly, I have not passed any personal view, other than I expected this kind of judgement.

Thirdly, Governments are tested all the time on the law, it does not make them corrupt, this is the basis of checks and balances within our unwritten "Constitution", to stop them acting in a corrupt way. So you are also indeed wrong.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Has the advice he gave to the Queen been published? I don't think it has, so how can anyone say that?

It was the impact of the prorogation that made the decision unlawful not the reasons behind it.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

More rubbish.

Words in rulings matter - no mention of the word corrupt was used. Stop telling lies.

---------- Post added at 13:10 ---------- Previous post was at 13:07 ----------

Yes the twaddle from you is coming thick and fast today.

No he is not corrupt, the court did not use such wordings in in the rulings, which matters a damn lot.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

1) I apologise & withdraw that part of my comment
2) If they are found guilty of either breaking the law or acting unlawfully, then imho they're corrupt

---------- Post added at 13:11 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

These are Lady Hales words, read the transcript of the judgement !!!!!!

---------- Post added at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------



So, therefore by your logic someone who acts unlawfully can be considered trustworthy?

Is that right?

A simple yes or no will do.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

PM Boris Johnson first comments on the Supreme Court ruling.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-49807552

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Boris made an unwise political decision that has now been ruled unlawful, that does not make him corrupt.

I was shocked he made this move when it was announced that Parliament was going to be prorogued and I just knew, those on the Remain side, fighting tooth and nail would rally against him through the courts and they did and they won.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

It's hardly lies. You clearly don't know the definition of corrupt if you can't see the link.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Has anyone said how long future prorogation's can be ?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Does your first statement not suggest a level of ineptitude?

As i see it we have (in my view) either a corrupt politician who deliberately tried to stop parliament from performing due process. Or, we have an inept politician incapable of performing his duties to the standard required.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

There is no link.

Again, for your benefit, the SC did not say in their ruling that he lied, they stopped short of ruling him doing this, they said there was no justifiable reasons for the prorogation, in Lady Hale's own words, "Blank sheet of paper", that to me doesn't say Boris lied.

So stop trying to throw the corruption label back on Boris because it does not wash, the EU is corrupt and undemocratic.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

It's Boris Johnson.

Sorry but I refer you back to the courts ruling, no mention of corrupt or lies. Words matter in rulings.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Presumably if it's not corruption then it's incompetence. Neither is an attractive attribute.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

People can form their own opinions about Boris Johnson as each of us can have our own subjective opinion on Boris Johnson as the key word used by the Supreme Court this morning was unlawful.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

...and what about Parliament attempting to frustrate the will of the electorate? There will be a high price to be paid for that, make no mistake.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

The electorate didn't vote for no deal.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

You cannot apply that word to every single connotation you happen to think up! It was the impact of the prorogation that was unlawful, that was the extent of it.

They did not say 'illegal' either, which would imply criminality.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Does it say this in those in the rulings?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Tell you what go and raise a court case against Parliament for acting unlawfully, If you win, come back and lets talk. Until then, your point is moot.

Parliament hasn't acted unlawfully. Boris has.


What high price will be paid? What empty threat is this?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

The electorate voted to leave.

Parliament voted against leave with a deal
Parliament voted against a no deal.
Parliament voted against the Norway option....

I'm sure you don't want the whole list, but it is blindingly obvious to us all that Parliament has been blocking the electorate's vote to LEAVE the EU.

None of the nonsense remain arguments can convincingly avoid that reality. And this is not lost on the public, which we will all see when the Opposition parties finally become embarrassed enough to call for an election.

Boris is now a champion of the people. Do the remainers yet see that this is what they have done? They have handed Boris a whopping great majority!

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Again, no, it wasn't

HIS advice to the queen was unlawful. go back, read the judgment.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Where did I say that Parliament acted unlawfully? Stop twisting things. I am saying that they have connived to frustrate the will of the electorate. That doesn't break any laws, unfortunately.

However, the Court of Public Opinion will have the final say.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

So your post has no relevance to the discussion at hand. Good to know.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

If people vote for him on the basis of no deal, and that delivers a majority, then so be it. That could legitimately be called what people voted for.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

It was, but because of the impact of the prorogation.

---------- Post added at 13:52 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------

Get real, man!

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I'm very real, you were attempting to use parliaments behaviour in a bid to offset/limit or perhaps even justify Boris's.


As i said, parliament has not done anything unlawful, but feel free to try and bring a case :)

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I have not said Parliament acted unlawfully. I was drawing attention to the unacceptable and treacherous way that the House was trying to defeat the will of the electorate.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Which has already been covered and this discussion relates to new developments doesn't it ?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Exactly. People need to move on, there's enough to keep us talking about on new developments without retracing old arguments.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

It isn't though. We voted to leave, that didn't stipulate when or on what terms.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Watching Boris on the news (he's in New York at the moment)

At the point of prorogation he said it was nothing to do with the Brexit process.

The supreme court say that he can't have prorogation.

Boris in New York then talks about how the SC got it wrong, and that there are individuals trying to block Brexit.

I spot something fishy....

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I’d love him to do it, just for the sheer hell of it.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Boris is flying back early to be in Parliament tomorrow.

However, he was booked on a Thomas Cook flight... :D

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Me too, around the 14 oct -1 nov works for me.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Same. It'd be hilarious to see him held in contempt of court, added to the historic amount of defeats he has had as PM leading a minority Government.

Parliament would be reconvened almost immediately, if the Queen even went through with it.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

He's getting a lift on Greta's private jet;)

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Well let’s face it, we no longer live in a democracy.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I don't remember ever voting for a bunch of retired lawyers.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

How so?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Remember the little thing called the referendum?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Who voted for this

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

That's an old argument which is the remainer's refrain. Brexiteers always knew what they were voting for and accept Theresa May's statement that no deal is better than a bad deal.

What we now need to do is jolly well get on with it, and if we have to put up with tons of hot air in Parliament from the refusniks, so be it.

With a bit of luck, we will be refused an extension. If the HOC scraps Article 50, Boris will have great pleasure in resurrecting it when he gets in after the election. This time, we will leave the way it should have been done in the first place.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

No but you do understand the law of the land l gather..

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

This judgement as explained by the SC this morning is not in relation to Brexit it’s regard if there was any misuse of power or unlawful activity occurred during the process of proroguing parliament.

There was.


Unless of course you’re saying that the whole point of the prorogation was to facilitate a no deal Brexit something Boris himself has strenuously denied

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Which law in particular are you referring to ?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Taking back control. But not for Parliament, or our highest court in the land?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

:clap:

Maybe people meant British Gas? :confused:

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

the court ruling was not about Brexit it was about pm unlawfully proroguing parliament

makes me laugh leavers like you OB crying parliament was not sovereign then crying about parliament proving it was sovereign all the time

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

A concise summing up of Mr Blobby's record so far from Ms Kuenssberg:-

In his two months in power, Boris Johnson has lost his first six Commons votes, broken the law by suspending Parliament and misled the monarch.

Hope he's not on performance pay....

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

No need, his shady "backers" will always see him right :)

I do wonder if this was all was Cummin's bright idea? If it was, maybe his hands on the strings that control Boris will be removed/relaxed ..

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

That’s because you didn’t - that’s not how our Parliamentary Democracy works...

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

So going forward is there now a legal limit on the number of days in a prorogation ?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

The attorney general’s legal advice has ‘accidentally’ been leaked and it appears he advised it was legal. That’s him thrown under the bus.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Read the Supreme Court judgement - the answer is in there.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Don't bring the bus back into the argument my nerves can't take it;)

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

He will be the sacrificial lamb offered up in place of BoJo, who from the noises he’s made so far clearly has no intention of going anywhere.

If Corbyn et al want him out, they are going to have to either win a no confidence vote, or else agree to, and win, an election.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Have you read it?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Linky

https://news.sky.com/story/exclusive...snt-sf-twitter

---------- Post added at 16:30 ---------- Previous post was at 16:29 ----------

Yes (that's how I know the answer is in there...).

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

What? You seem to be a trifle confused. First you allege I said Parliament was acting unlawfully (which I didn't) and now you imply that I think the point of prorogation was to facilitate a no deal Brexit (and I have said nothing of the sort). I have made clear throughout that the proroguing of Parliament was done in view of the conference season and the Queen's Speech.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Is it a state secret ?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I didn't say anything to the contrary. I was comparing the comments people were making about Boris's behaviour with the behaviour of Parliament in doing all it can to ditch Brexit.

---------- Post added at 16:38 ---------- Previous post was at 16:33 ----------

So what? Boris wants to implement the will of the electorate, and the lost votes simply reflect his lack of a majority for getting that through.

You can't blame the man for trying (although no doubt, you will).

I would like to ask why these last few weeks are so important for having Parliamentary debates when it is self evident that three years of debating has got us nowhere, except to prove that Parliament won't agree any solution that is put to them. What a waste of time. Now the Labour Party Conference will have to be cut short and the Conservative Party Conference postponed.

Absolutely insane.

---------- Post added at 16:41 ---------- Previous post was at 16:38 ----------

No, it is the impact of the prorogation that will be important, although the amount of time involved, inevitably, will form part of the assessment.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Thank you for replying.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

No

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Given that the majority of the electorate at the last election voted for parties specifically ruling out No Deal, this does implement the will of the (last active) electorate.

You cannot blame him for trying but the Supreme Court of the UK can. I know which is the more credible.

You ask why this is important? Sort of obvious really. The current PM is intent on leaving the EU without an orderly exit which, in the eyes of our elected Parliamentary representatives, is not in the best interests of the country.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

He is quite popular within the party isn’t he? Not sure it’s gonna help the Tory Party opinions of No 10 if he is perceived to be the sacrificial lamb but if it is his legal advice that got them here then..,

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

The Conservatives have thrown enough popular people out of the Party recently so another one won't make too much difference. ;)

More pressure on the PM - he has two weeks to explain his dealings with US businesswoman Jennifer Arcuri.
https://news.sky.com/story/boris-joh...woman-11818532

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Meanwhile, John Mcdonnell goes on the news to suggest the Tory party should deal with Boris. He’d love that of course - saves Labour having to set in train events that would lead to an election that, despite everything, they would almost certainly lose.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

popular with who ?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

The electorate.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Their constituents?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I think everyone knows an election is coming soon either way. They just want to make sure Boris Johnson is getting as much bad press as possible, although I don't think they're nearly adept at it as Dominic Cummings is.

I think the election result is really up in the air. In terms of seats it's easier to see where the Tories lose seats (Scotland, Lib/Tory marginals) but it's not clear where they win them. They're betting the house on large swings from Labour Brexiters but if they've miscalculated that then....

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

But they're politicians,typhoid is more popular.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

By that measure, all MPs are 'popular'.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Sensible analysis. The Conservatives have inflicted damage on themselves with the expulsions, they are weakened in the geographies you have described with Scotland being self-inflicted and Corbyn has played the whole Brexit shall I/shan't I game effectively.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

:D:D:D We'll see shortly what the electorate makes of that!

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Well, 43% of the public think BoJo should step down v 39% saying carry on. Indeed, what a carry-on it has been under BoJo. :D
https://yougov.co.uk/

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

By 49 to 30 they think proroguing Parliament was unlawful?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

In normal times the AG would resign ... Sending Mr Mogg to Balmoral to mislead the Queen is not the done thing ..

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I would have thought it higher but people are voting along political not legal limes.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Indeed, but I would say the Attorney General was more of a legal lemon ! ;)

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

End of the Tory Party I wonder... Rees-Mogg as PM.. O deary me.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Let's just have an election, Con's will get in, Boris will still be leader we will leave on the 31st Oct. Simples.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Much like 29th March there absolutely zero chance of now leaving on 31st October.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Zero chance of the EU granting an extention to A50.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Heard that before too.

£1bn a month remember.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

That’s the only certainty at the moment.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

We can’t hold an election where BJ will be PM (if he wins) before the 31st October, even if he calls one* tomorrow or Thursday, as a general election would need to follow a strict timetable specified in law - Parliament has to be dissolved at least 25 working days before polling day, and by tradition, polling day is on a Thursday.

If he picked Thursday October 31 for polling day (27 working days from now), dissolution would need to take place on Thursday September 26th (but the results wouldn’t be available until the 1st of October).

So, for BJ to call* and win an election so he would still be leader by 31st October, Parliament would need to be dissolved tomorrow.


*which he can’t

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Which might mean early next week the opposition call for an election assuming they trust the no deal law will work.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

We should have a general election and another referendum on the same day.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion