Re: Brexit (New).
 

Cable Forum: Authorities on (mis)information. :D

Re: Brexit (New).
 

On thing has just struck me.

Remainers keep on staying about what wasn't on the ballot paper.

But neither was a second referendum if the self serving remainers MP fail to reach an agreement.

The only thing that is and being ignored is we leave next Friday with no deal.

Its also been very a week since I watched a programme on the Brexit Biased Corporation, other than the local news in the morning to catch the traffic report.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Think you have misunderstood the extensions
- even if we leave with no deal that won't be next Friday.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

There were only 2 options on the ballot paper. As we can see from the proposed indicative votes next week, there are several very different types of Brexit. It isn't as simple as 'just leaving' after all. There was no plan.

To my mind, although I know others disagree, the public should get the final say on whatever type of Brexit the muppets in Parliament come up with as they mean different things. The option to remain should be there if it's a type of Brexit you don't want.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

It would have been, but Parliament also voted to enact the result. It didn’t say before the referendum “ this is just advisory so we may or may not follow through with the result”

Re: Brexit (New).
 

And as you know, no Parliament can bind itself or another.

If we leave it’s because Parliament decides. Not “the people”.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

La La Land.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

They are not alternative types of Brexit. It is either Brexit or it isn't. Leave means leave.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Based on the result of the referendum.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Parliament was never meant to betray the people. The referendum was held on the basis that the result would be implemented. We voted to leave.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The fact is, there are still only 2 options on the table, May’s deal or No Deal.

People talking about indicative votes, and other options such as an FTA deal, or a Norway deal, or a customs union, but these are all about the future relationship, and even if there was a vote and the Norway option won ( which btw doesn’t solve the Irish issue as Norway has a border with the EU) it means zip as that isn’t on the table, neither is any other option.

It is May’s deal or No deal. Nothing has been proposed that alters that position.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Well May's deal is literally, legally, leaving the European Union and that's called 'Not Brexit'. People are using a narrow win in the referendum as carte blanche to also dictate the future relationship with the European Union and other trading partners, the future of the Northern Irish border in relation to that and anything else too.

I don't see what gives them the right to decide how we leave as if the 52% is in charge forever more.

---------- Post added at 19:35 ---------- Previous post was at 19:34 ----------

The Norway option is typically seen as Norway + a customs union which does solve the problem. The more likely option is simply May's Deal + Customs Union and that would be delivered for now by amending the political declaration to put that as the starting point for the future relationship.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Theresa May could drop vote on Brexit deal if it lacks support


Theresa May has indicated she may not bring her deal back to parliament for a third vote if there is not enough support for it.

In a letter to her fellow parliamentarians, she wrote: "If it appears that there is not sufficient support to bring the deal back next week, or the House rejects it again, we can ask for another extension before 12 April."

She also extended an offer to MPs to speak to her directly if they wish to in order to help them reach a decision.


https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-m...pport-11672888

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The death throws of a failed PM.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

You keep repeating that but its blindingly obvious that leave doesn't actually mean leave does it. I'd hate to see some of the people in here in power. Like it or not, the best interests of the country need to come first and that includes the 48% that voted remain. Like it or lump it, it's simply not as simple as people want to make out it is and typing leave means leave on forums or social media isn't going to get you anywhere.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

It’s not meant to doesn’t commit it to not.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Theresa May could drop vote on Brexit deal if it lacks support

https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-m...pport-11672888

it only a matter of how many she lose by if they do vote

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Could you translate into English?

Re: Brexit (New).
 

= tied to EU trade policy, and unable to do trade deals or set our own tariffs. What’s the point of leaving then?

Re: Brexit (New).
 

It doesn’t mean it does not commit to not. It being Parliament.

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No social chapter stuff from the EU, only regulations would relate to products, control of immigration, no EU budget contributions or closer integration. Can we really get enough trade deals to match what we can get with the EU?

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Whatnots or notwhats?

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:40 ----------

Can we not?

Re: Brexit (New).
 

em who got biggest trade deal in world usa no china no it the EU

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The EU is massive and is right on our door step making it easier to trade goods with them, you see EU lorries on our roads all the time, even if we got a deal with America it would be hard to reach that level of trade with anyone else.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The point is to maintain our level of trade with the EU whilst looking to new markets.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Well maintaining our level with trade with the EU is going to be a hell of an ask if we're having a more distant relationship, right now it's the same economic bloc we're in. We are very unlikely to replicate the same level outside of it.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I know but people carry on like were not going to trade with the EU, of course we are. Will it be the same level, maybe, maybe not, maybe more. But we will still trade in massive volumes, they’ll still be our closest trading partner. But we wont be tied to it. Staying in a CU would be pointless and not very forward thinking. If we tie ourselves into a CU we might as well stay in the EU

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Yes we'll trade with the EU but the access and amount will be the key question. None of us on here are able to give precise numbers on what'll happen but the key to being in the Customs Union or not is essentially if that's more profitable to us than being outside of it but doing our own trade deals.

In the end we won't know for a good while, years, what would have been best from that point of view. The UK has been one of the biggest economies on the world and we'll have to see if we can continue to keep track with the major European economies or if we drift downwards over time.

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I’d welcome if the forum moderators dealt with improving the quality of information available to the same degree they endorsed the dunce hat. :dunce:

Re: Brexit (New).
 

:confused:

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Just when you thought Brexit couldn’t get any stranger, Uri Geller (anyone remember Mr SpoonBender) enters the fray...

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Crikey, looks like Uri is set to save us from both Jeremy Corbyn and Brexit!

---------- Post added at 22:25 ---------- Previous post was at 22:23 ----------

Hence her cunning plan never to hold the third vote, so she'll remain in power. ;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Arrests on the roads in Cornwall for trying to disrupt motorways. Here comes the crackdown.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

America is already our biggest single trading partner, what exactly will we be selling them post leaving?

He sure is a powerful tool, sorry wouldn't want that misinterpreted, I mean his mind is a powerful tool

---------- Post added at 03:19 ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 ----------

But who will save our spoons from him

Re: Brexit (New).
 

We are just across the border from Cornwall and apparently its the M5 next.

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I thought that the speaker had said that she couldn't bring it back for a third time anyway, so I don't understand why she's talking as though she has a choice in the matter :confused:

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The speaker said he would not allow a third "meaningful vote" in the coming days on "substantially the same" motion as MPs have already rejected.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The NHS? ;)

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This is what terrifies me most.

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If a majority in parliament want's to vote on it he can't stop them.
any how it only needs rewording to meet the criteria.

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Just re-wording it won’t work (or changing the font size or type)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Sky news reporting Tm might have MV week after next [last minute try]

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Petition to revoke Article 50 hits 4m mark.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Why bots probably aren't gaming the petition
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47668946

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Some interesting facts here
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...rch-2019-uk-eu

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Quotes taken from the second link (by Andrew)

The BBC spoke to three cyber-security experts about how likely it is that a number of the 3m signatures gathered so far are not genuine.

They all agreed that the petition's email validation process would be a deterrent.

Additionally, while it is possible to buy lists of email addresses stolen in various data breaches on the black market, the owner of the list would still need to access those email accounts and retrieve the validation email before being able to sign in the name of somebody else.

Cyber-security expert Kevin Beaumont said that while it was possible that bots were involved, it would be "a bit of a pain" to build a sophisticated enough programme to cope with the email addresses.

"They would have to make a bot that signs up with unique email addresses, then clicks the unique link to sign," he said.

With protection like that in place, it looks like Russia couldn't have had any part in skewing previous votes . . . best let the USA know too ;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The main reason Brexit is the way it is, is because too much airtime is given to remainers who refuse to accept the referedum result.

Which never said call for a second referendum if the largly remaining MPs refuse to back brexit at every turn.

For me voting is now a waste of time as all we have to do is cry and throw our dummies out of the prams.

If only I could truly say what I want to say here, but the sware filter would melt and I'd more than likely be banned.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Main issue is that 75% of MPs are against Brexit and Theresa May has pandered to the hardliners. Theresa May should have consulted before devising her red lines which have tripped her up.
Censoring people because they don't agree with your views is not a British approach.

---------- Post added at 13:37 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------

Especially relevant quotes from that article are:

"It's a petition, it's not a vote - it's not meant to be as secure as an e-voting system."

However, bot activity could still be used to slow down or crash the platform, meaning that people wanting to leave genuine signatures could be prevented from doing so. This is known as a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack.

While Russia is notorious for seeking to meddle in the politics of the west, on this occasion there is a question mark over what its intentions would be, added Prof Woodward."All the evidence is that Russia was supporting the Leave campaign," he said. "So why would they suddenly be supporting Remain?"

Re: Brexit (New).
 

No such thing as a hardliner. I voted to leave and expect to leave, nothing hard or extreme about it.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Absolutely right, and those fighting against that decision of the electorate are not democrats.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Your understanding of democracy is somewhat skewed. So long as they’re not doing anything illegal they have every right to continue

---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:26 ----------


People expressing their democratic right to protest does not constitute the subverting of democracy

Parliament voting in what they believe to be the country’s best interests does not constitute the subverting of democracy

MP’s are the representatives of the people not the delegates I do wish you would understand that

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Even when caught doing something illegal they often carry on :D

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Some genuine facts here.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I’m apologise you feel that you’re being patronised but that’s quite simply not the case.

Their duty is to act in the best interests of the nation as a whole as they see fit It’s that simple no ifs no buts

Re: Brexit (New).
 

To clarify, I'm talking about the hardline MPs she's pandered to not the folk here on Cable Forum.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

You mean those who insist on honouring the election manifesto and the result of the referendum.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

https://briefingsforbrexit.com/the-u...-a-wto-brexit/

We could all survive the nuclear option quite happily, that’s why we shouldn’t do anymore can kicking and either sign up to the deal or just leave.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I didn’t realise that Gove, Johnson, Leadsom, Rees-Mogg, Raab, Jarvis, Hunt, et al were in the Labour Leadership team... ;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Re: Brexit (New).
 

No, it's just a standard term used to describe some politicians.

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

This might be something which many of us agree on! :)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ry-into-brexit

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Cabinet coup “in progress”.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I recommend garlic , a stake, some sunlight and a mirror ;)

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Indeed, all over the Sunday press. Looks like Gove, one of the more able ministers is being tipped as her replacement. https://news.sky.com/story/sundays-n...pages-11673807

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Oily snake Gove, well there's a surprise (not).

Re: Brexit (New).
 

very interesting week ahead

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Past caring, i think at the next GE i’ll Vote for an independent or the MRLP. The vote is worthless anyway.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Well your vote is worthless unless you live in a marginal constituency, but that's the way we like it apparently...

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The only reason to replace May now is for a long extension or Norway. If the plan was no deal on 12th April they could force her to see that through and stick the knife in afterwards.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

After this debacle, especially in the North, it will be very interesting to see what former Labour strongholds become “ marginal seats “.

Does Corbyn ever venture further North than Islington, unless trying to make out an empty train is full?

Re: Brexit (New).
 

I would imagine Kate Hoey's will be one such marginal seat.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

On the contrary, this is a Conservative party mess. A revived UKIP equivalent will chip away at their percentage.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

100% fact

Re: Brexit (New).
 

One of Brutus's friends you mean....

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Aided and abetted by Corbyn's equivocation.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Have we ever had a prime minister and a opposition leader as bad as these two and the answer has to be a big thumping no..

Re: Brexit (New).
 

In my lifetime; no

Re: Brexit (New).
 

While I agree he’s useless I think if he’d supported a second referendum earlier (or more forcefully) that’d have resulted in the Conservatives finding a common position earlier. We’d have got Brexit.

By allowing the Conservatives to implode this late in the day Labour has facilitated this opportunity. It can hand on heart say there was no alternative.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Assuming Farage's new Brexit party is vaguely competent. It recently sacked its leader for Islamophobic tweets so this is not a given.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

A dog whistle with a union flag has the scope to get a couple of percent without even trying. A fairly incompetent one could still get enough to undermine the Tory vote.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

No, this is a parliamentary mess.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Which could have been possibly been avoided if May hadn’t tried to do this all herself and instead gone cross party.


The buck for this current shambles stops squarely with May

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Nope, I don’t see it that way. I don’t care who is in power, what deal they came up with, you will never get a consensus on Brexit through Parliament.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Exactly as no matter how much distaste political parties might have for each other going cross party would have certainly been a much better option.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

As i recall it, UKIP, and before it the BNP did very well in the Labour heartlands.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

No ifs , no buts and no maybes...

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Cross party would/will solve nothing. It is clear to anyone that you can’t have Brexit by committee.

You want a horse you get a camel.

It needs a singular view of Brexit and drive, purpose and more importantly a thumping majority - even that would probably not be enough.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

You must be joking, Den! Do you really think they would have got any co-operation with Labour or the Scottish Nationalists? There was no way that would ever happen. I think you know that. The SNP don't want Brexit and Labour keep changing their position and just want to oppose any kind of deal.

It would have been obvious that this was a non-starter.

---------- Post added at 10:59 ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 ----------

Er - Norway isn't Brexit. Just thought I'd remind you.:mad:

Re: Brexit (New).
 

So who is going to step forward to take over?It's a poisoned chalice for whoever is in charge and I can see an image of prospective candidates pushing each other forwards in an attempt to make sure they can step in after that candidate sinks as well and Brexit is resolved in some manner whatever transpires.
So who will finally stand atop the dung heap?

Re: Brexit (New).
 

And where are we now with plotters in Theresa May's government plotting her downfall as l speak so much so she might be gone at the end of next week.

---------- Post added at 11:09 ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 ----------

A government of Unity given we have the gravest crisis in this country since the second World War might be one idea.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

It’s not the job of the Leader of the Oppositon to facilitate bad Government policy. They command a majority alongside their confidence and supply partner.

You can blame Labour all you want but the fact remains if May had the full support of her party she would have won the last “meaningful vote”.

---------- Post added at 11:26 ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 ----------

Incorrect.

Having the exact relationship Norway has with Brussels completely satisfies the result of the referendum question asked on 23rd June 2016. We would no longer be a member of the European Union.

---------- Post added at 11:28 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

Actually 100% agree on this point. For Brexit to be achieved it needs a government who can’t be held to the whims of the ERG/DUP.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

You've hit that nail, Maggy. Theresa May keeps getting it in the neck for all her efforts and yet no-one else would have wanted this job. Faced with a Remainer Parliament, what deal was she supposed to come up with? People keep saying she's negotiated a bad deal, but this was the only one we were going to get. The only alternative to it that delivers on the referendum is no deal, which is a much better scenario than many think it is.

None of the other options that have been discussed achieve that. For each one of those other options, ask yourself - does it extract us from free movement? Do we still have control of our own laws? Are we free to forge new trade deals with other countries?

If the answer to any of these questions is no, then that is not what the people thought they were voting for.

So it's either TM's deal, no deal, or unacceptable betrayal that will never be forgotten or forgiven.

---------- Post added at 12:16 ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 ----------

True, but that doesn't address my point.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

None of these things were specifically stated on the ballot paper, so you’ve no way to quantify which (if any) need to be delivered.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Re: Brexit (New).
 

We would still be obliged to adopt the four freedoms, which would be unacceptable, and we would still have to pay huge amounts of money to the EU. How exactly do you work out that the Norway option delivers on the referendum?

---------- Post added at 12:24 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------

You know perfectly well that immigration, getting back our sovereignty and stopping those payments to the EU were the principle drivers for those who voted for Leave. So your other options don't cut it, I'm afraid.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

The problem is both parties have splits in them as wide as a chasm..

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Re: Brexit (New).
 

Which of course explains why Theresa May called that last General Election. She knew she would get a better chance of seeing Brexit through if she could increase her majority.

Shame the strategy failed in the end.

Re: Brexit (New).
 

That is because whoever advised her that this was the right strategy to use was quite clearly pretty clueless to put it bluntly as the British people are not as stupid as some would have you believe..

Re: Brexit (New).
 

It’s because it wasn’t what the public wanted!