Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

The difference being that the Discovery channels were never actually removed from Sky as a deal was thrashed out.

I've never known such a backlash from customers and widespread media attention over any cable issue, let alone channel removal.

It's not a matter of if, but when at least some of the UKTV channels return. The situation for VM is becoming more untenable by the day and the current stance by management of digging their heels in to appear robust is only serving to protract and worsen the negative fallout. Threatening to auction off the former UKTV EPG slots is downright inflammatory and not something i'd expect from so called professionals at such a delicate and sensitive time, particularly when Ofcom are about to start mediating between the two parties. I'm sure that Ofcom will take a very dim view of this latest move by VM management.

I'm afraid it's now got to the stage where damage limitation is the best that they can hope for. Whether VM (or anyone else) believes that they are in the right will eventually have to be put to one side to safeguard the whole future of the business. I do genuinely think that it's now that serious.

People are complaining to Ofcom about not being able to cancel after being kept on hold for excessive lengths of time, that live chat appears to have been suspended and the other day the telephone system stopped working because it simply could not cope.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

Did the Sky Basics dispute ruin the TV side Richard?.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

The bottom of the Y axis is 26 not zero so that's a deceptive graph.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

I totally agree with the author of this. Whether you agree with either, both or neither party, UKTV have engaged with the public in a much better way. VM on the other hand have used the parrot fashion technique to try to appear corporate and steadfast.

It's just coming across as arrogant, robotic and totally lacking in customer care.

---------- Post added at 18:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:32 ----------

No, they managed to keep a reasonable customer base by throwing out discounts left, right and centre.

This situation has exploded more than I think anybody could ever have imagined though, it's a totally different ball game (particularly as many more people now take their TV service from VM).

Instead of the carrot of discounts and allowing people to leave whilst in contract (long term thinking) to keep people that NTL used, VM are using the stick of legalities, contracts and fees to try to force people to stay.

Even if this works for a short time, if won't be a very harmonious relationship and people will eventually leave at the end of their contract feeling very resentful. They are unlikely to ever use VM again and it's well known that people who have something good to say about a business usually tell one or two. For something bad, you can multiply this many times over.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

Oh, come on, Richard, so fatalistic of you! Did you really expect Virgin to tolerate any longer being charged to carry free UKTV channels and not getting the on demand programming they expected to be provided from the previous contract?

Customers are demanding fewer price rises but some of them do not appreciate that a bit of hard bargaining is required to keep those rises to a minimum.

You really do have a short memory if you do not recollect the aggro resulting from the withdrawal of the Sky channels some years back. All those people who were denied the opportunity to follow that 'trending' series called 'Lost'!

The fact is, sometimes you have to stand up for what is right, despite the pain. That's what VM is doing, and I would not expect any less.

---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------

Or maybe you could describe VM's behaviour as trying not to rock the boat as far as their negotiations with UKTV and future scrutiny by Ofcom is concerned.

UKTV is actively trying to cajole VM viewers over to other platforms rather than continue negotiating. I think that smacks of bad faith and bullying behaviour.

I hope Ofcom come down hard on UKTV. They will, if they have any backbone. VM is right to hold its head up above this and just re-state its position.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

I've priced up Sky and even with offers, I'd be paying £71 and that's without landline, BB or BT sport. Factor in landline and BB from Sky (max 71Mbs) and I'm up to £99 a month without BT Sport. I'm paying Virgin £100 a month for the VIP with 2 x V6.

I won't miss UKTV that much.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

I've just set my recordings for next week. There was nothing on the UKTV channels worth recording. I shan't miss them either.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

Think we got that message OB (several times now ! ;) ). But there are more VM subscribers than you and many do value the UKTV channels, hence the uproar.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

Keep it all in this one thread (Title Updated).

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

wouldn't you have to buy a extra box too for multiroom with sky

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

Not sure if you can get a free mini Q box still,when I switched to Sky I got a free mini Q box for free.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

£20 atm I believe for a 2nd box the current batch of offers expire just before midnight

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I did notice this in the Yorkshire Post article ;

Which seems like a bonus to me, not an issue :)

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Couldn't have happened at a better time seeing as it's the final on Monday

:D

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

New customers can get Sky Cinema free up until midnight as well.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

Ok there's some merit in that argument, with a couple of provisos..

1: VM claiming the new channels are replacements, they're nothing of the sort and they know it.

2: "We will take the free channels but they're stopping us". Anyone who wants any of them back, wants the lot back. VM's position here smacks of opportunism.

3: UKTV claiming no contact from VM - I'd expect to see both parties not only talking behind closed doors, but putting out at least a semblance of a unified "we're both trying" approach.

Maybe UKTV are in denial over the value of their product - but the PR storm would seem to suggest VM may have underestimated this a wee tad...

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

There was a lot of annoyance caused by the withdrawal of the Sky basic channels that's true, but cable had fewer customers then and it was handled in a much more sensitive manner by the previous owners of VM.

As a result this has escalated into something far more serious than anybody could have imagined. From a holistic point of view with regards to the whole business, VM must surely regret this ever happening.

For the sake of argument, let's assume that VM are in the right with regards to the dispute.
With Ofcom involvement, extensive negative media attention, costs to the company far exceeding what they had hoped to save, their customer contracts being the subject of unprecedented scrutiny by legal bods and 43% of customers either leaving or considering leaving their TV service (and possibly leaving BB and telephony too because of the financial incentives for taking all services from the same provider) at the end of their contract or with 30 days notice, their other channel suppliers and competitors seizing upon the opportunity to take advantage of the situation, i'm sure that they would never have gone down this road if they could have seen into the future.

Management have boxed themselves into a corner and are allowing their own pride to continue with their stance and as a result the whole business is likely to suffer greatly. I'm really surprised that John Malone hasn't become personally involved as he's known for being straight talking and hands on.

In essence, in business, the correct thing to do isn't always the right thing to do.

VM certainly are rocking the boat at this sensitive time, namely by now threatening to auction off the UKTV EPG slots! They have also repeatedly claimed that they are in continued talks with UKTV, but UKTV have repeatedly denied this. During one news interview with both parties the UKTV spokesman said that an offer had been put to VM via email, but no response had been received. Bouchier all but called the UKTV spokesman a liar live on air!

This whole episode is one of the most unprofessional and immature corporate incidents that I have ever witnessed.

---------- Post added at 22:36 ---------- Previous post was at 22:24 ----------

I suppose it all depends on whether you actually watched UKTV or not and what other services you have as to whether each company is cheaper or not. I, for example, wouldn't factor in the BT Sport cost if going to another provider as I never watch it.

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:36 ----------

I'm now missing seven series. I'm keeping a record as, even though they no longer appear in Planned Recordings, the missing programmes show up in Recording Hiccups.

---------- Post added at 22:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

:D:D:D

Paul, when you moved your TV service over to Sky, but kept VM for B&B, did you find a noticeable difference in the total cost once you lost the triple play discounts?

Don't Sky customers get free basic BB (tho I suppose this wouldn't be adequate for someone running a forum)?

As VM is better for BB and Sky better for TV, I can see many others doing the same as yourself if the free Sky BB doesn't meet their needs. For someone like myself who doesn't need the constant 'free' speed upgrades from VM, a lower speed wouldn't be a problem for me.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

One thing I’m noticing at this precise moment is that the picture quality on Freesports (ch 130) over my 200meg connection is broadly what I used to get when streaming video over a 56kb dial-up connection.

And this is supposed to be an exciting brand new channel?

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

Yes. Like Virgin Media want to get the free UKTV channels for free!

---------- Post added at 01:24 ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 ----------

1. I have not claimed that the new channels are replacements. I am not Virgin Media!

2. That may be so, but getting the free channels back on VM concentrates the minds of the negotiators on the price to be paid for the premium channels.

3. Frankly, we don't know. If Virgin have made their position clear and UKTV won't give way, there is nothing to discuss.

I think UKTV will start feeling the pinch sooner rather than later.

---------- Post added at 01:34 ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 ----------

Not so. One cannot help but believe that the only reason you are so cock-a-hoop about all this is that you can claim compensation. You are beside yourself with the idea that the ITV channels may disappear too!

Your previous posts reveal indisputably that you will claim compensation for any loss of service, whether or not it affects you materially. This is no different.

If Sky are so great, why not go over to them? Your experience may prove rather different from what you expect, I fear.

Speaking personally, I am rather pleased that VM are finally making a stand on this. Being reliant on the content of others, this is the little guy standing up to the big guys.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

I am not pleased about the situation, what a ridiculous thing to say. I would much rather have the channels that I want to watch than the £3 a month discount for 6 months.

I will not be receiving any net compensation at all as I will have to subscribe to a service costing £7.99 A month- do the maths. In addition, despite paying extra, I will not be able to record the programmes, nor watch them via VOD. I will have to try and watch the programmes when they actually air, it will be like going back to the mid 1970's before I got a VCR!

Your second paragraph is simply too ludicrous to respond to.

As previously explained, VM are tying me into a contract under threat of early exit fees. Until the matter of whether this contract is fair or not has been ruled upon, like many others, I am either stuck with them or will have to fight them in court to claim that their contract is unfair and unenforceable.

My solicitor has advised me to hold fire as any decisions made about this by various Government bodies will be critical to any cases taken by individuals against them.

Whilst it is the case that Sky are offering to pay any early exit fees, I won't necessarily be going to them.

Moving onto ITV. I have now been advised by a contact that, whatever happens this weekend, a limited ITV service should be available on the VM network.

On cable, it is a condition of the cable licenses needed to operate such a service that they 'must carry' the PSB channels on a cost neutral basis.

However, the law was changed fairly recently because of an internet service called TV Catchup. This service argued that they could carry the PSB channels without paying anything for channels 1-5 as they should be regarded as a cable company.

The commercial broadcasters weren't happy about this as TV Catchup were making money by showing their own adverts in the breaks instead of theirs, whilst not paying anything towards their costs. It went to court and TV Catchup lost.

As a result, the Government amended a piece of legislation so as to now allow the commercial channels to levy a retransmission fee for anyone showing their channel. It was intended for the likes of TV Catchup, but it was pointed out to the Government that the broad definition of the legislation would now allow the commercial broadcasters to charge a fee to the tradition cable companies, such as VM. The Government responded by saying that they didn't think that this would happen.

ITV had other ideas and asked VM for money. When this was also pointed out to the Government, they simply said that it should be left to commercial negotiations.

So, this is why it's a grey area. On the one hand the law states that VM must carry ITV (1) SD, but if ITV don't get the retransmission fees that they are asking for, they have threatened to cut off their feed. ITV HD and all of their other channels have no such condition and are subject to normal commercial negotiations.

If the feed from ITV is cut off, VM have plans to take an unauthorised SD feed (probably ITV London) from satellite and pipe it through its cable network around the country. Their argument for being able to do this would be that they are required by law to show ITV as a condition of their licence. VM customers would be able to continue to watch ITV, but not in HD nor have acess to catch up or +1 services. Local news would be unavailable for the vast majority of the country. As far as I am aware, people in the STV area would not be affected.

Part of the can of worms opened as a result of VM no longer showing the UKTV channels is that their platform has been weakened. Other channel providers will be only too aware that VM cannot afford to lose another popular broadcaster from their platform and will use this to their full advantage.

The deal to continue carrying the Sky channels expires in May and I did think that (if the UKTV channels were still off VM), Sky would use this situation to weaken their strongest competitor, either by asking for exorbitant carriage fees or withdrawing their channels.

The situation would be much worse than the last time that Sky took their channels off cable, as this time Sky Sports would go too because it is no longer regulated. I'm not sure about the position of the Sky Cinema channels.

It looks like ITV are getting in there first...

Whether people watch UKTV or not and whether people think that VM have a case or not in the dispute is largely irrelevant now. The real damage is only just beginning.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

Go read what you quoted again, then please explain to me how that conveys him being "cock-a-hoop", am I missing something :confused:


Umm, you're pleased that everyone on VM is losing UKTV - really ?

Seems the only one "cock-a-hoop" here is actually you. :erm:

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

On Saturday when I signed up for tv player Gold, W and Alibi were not available on Roku but now they are. Is this because of Virgin Media losing the channels?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Does seem a coincidence ! Sky and other providers, will be rubbing their hands at VMs 'own goal'.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Well according to a few posters its not a own goal which to put it bluntly is frankly hogwash..

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Is it possible that other providers may take the same stance as Virgin and play UK TV at their own game?

If Virgin don't feel they are getting the content or value for money from UKTV that they thought, Sky could look at their contract and also think they are paying too much for UKTV too?

Very dangerous game by both sides.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Quite the opposite having UKTV and VM not having will be a major selling point for other providers. Sky are already targeting VM customers with the UKTV carrot.....

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

Ok, some fair points there some just make me wonder..

You're right about not knowing whether VM/UKTV are actively trying to resolve this mess or just engaging in a PR war - but the latter certainly isn't going VM's way at the moment, that's for certain. And if one side isn't currently budging, then yes I guess the other does just need to see where the situation goes...UKTV win this one hands down so far.

So UKTV can't offer the BBC OD archive anymore which does devalue their rights, but I'm sure I read somewhere that they'd offered increased hours of other stuff.. maybe wrong, maybe right, but just putting it out there. It still doesn't alter the loss of 10 linear channels though (plus the HD/+1 variants) - which are indisputably popular.

As soon as the channels got pulled, we knew VM would save on carriage costs but risk losing on customer numbers and disounts - that is certainly happening, I would guess in significant numbers.

UKTV are going to be hit with lower advertising and outright loss of VM's carriage income - I do wonder how long this wil take to have an effect though, how far ahead are these things "banked" and measurable..

Someone else has alluded to the right thing not always being the correct thing, to do - never a truer word said. Whatever VM thought they could and should rightly save in overvalued channel costs, if even half of the "I'm going to cancel" stories are right - they must be sailing close to the wind with losing that in lost customers. And that's saying nothing for the reputational damage.

Only yesterday I was chatting to another relative who has VM TV but only really keeps it for Gold and a couple of others. I'm not sure how ADSL/BT fibre performs in their area, but that will have a large effect on whether all their services get reviewed or just the TV. They've not bothered to do the retentions call yet, but give it another week or so and that's potentially another customer lost.

Re: VM loses UKTV channels
 

Good post, Richard. Sorry about the compensation dig, though - I couldn't resist! :D

I don't think VM is surprised at UKTV's action to withdraw these channels. I suspect that VM have already calculated that they will back down due to the loss of income. It's just a shame that this appears to be the only way of resolving the problem. I don't think they should just stand by while they get ripped off by content providers, and this was definitely a rip off.

Maybe this will force a re-think by Liberty Global regarding its policy that its cablecos concentrate on taking content from other providers rather than be a provider itself. This does put them in a weaker position, IMO.

---------- Post added at 10:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 ----------

No, I'm not happy that the channels have been pulled. I said I was glad VM made a stand against being ripped off. If VM's move creates the dent in UKTV's finances that we think it will, I am sure they will get back to the negotiating table. After all, they are in this to make money, right?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I've not read the article but in my local paper the title read VM could lose ITV over the weekend? I know it's talked about in this thread but if it does go bye bye VM hello sky. I'll just keep the BB

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Will Virgin Media lose ITV and force customers to miss the Love Island final?

https://metro.co.uk/2018/07/27/will-...final-7766743/

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Virgin Media’s reliance on third party content means it was unwise to force a public spat with UKTV

http://www.seenit.co.uk/virgin-media...pat-with-uktv/

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

It simply won't happen is the blunt answer to that...

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Why not?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Because not having ITV's bouquet of channels on there would be like signing your own long suicide note IMO so it won't happen..

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

people would have said that before last weekend about uktv too

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

So why haven't VM got this deal sorted?

After the debacle of UKTV, you would think they would nip this in the bud!

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

But UKTV is not ITV in scale Dave.

---------- Post added at 11:57 ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 ----------

l suspect they are very close to a deal as its inevitable there will be some sabre rattling on both sides as that is not the first time it has happened and it won't be the last.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Well I've looked at sky Q box 1tb with kids tv, HD channels and box sets for £35 a month. keep Broadband only with VM says 350mb £48 a month on site but might get a deal with being a customer already.

It works out £11 a month more over my current package to go with sky so we'll see what happens

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I struggle to see why any average home user would need access to 350mb.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

VM really need to start some damage limitation here. I wonder if any prospective new customers for VM have decided not to risk it because of the ITV rumours and the UKTV debacle.

Also Tv player have now enabled the UKTV channels on Roku devices as a direct response to the VM V UKTV spat. Although you cant record or have on demand yet.

I really was hoping they could kiss and make up but it is not looking like they will. They are both contradicting each other on Twitter.

VM We are still in discussions mmmmmm no you are not says UKTV.

Heads should roll......

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Totally agree. It's been a bad week of press with many articles linking to their previous dispute with SKY and their channels being removed in the past. Would certainly put me off signing up not knowing when their next channel dispute is going to happen and if I'm going to lose my favourite channels randomly at some point. Too risky.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

There is around 4 people in the house using the internet at anyone time, personal preference and well why not.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

And you would not be alone Chad, this was my point about the real damage being yet to come.

Many people have expressed the same sentiment and will mention it to friends & family when the subject comes up.

Even if this were all sorted out tomorrow, the product has now been seriously undermined and their brand name has been tainted.

I'm surprised that Richard Branson hasn't complained about this as this could also taint other Virgin branded companies by association; many people still think that it is Richard Branson who owns VM.

---------- Post added at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 13:59 ----------

I agree with everything he says. VM have boxed themselves in and made a huge tactical mistake by doing this and forcing the issue. There will now be repercussions both now and in the future, whether they back down or give in.

I see the only viable solution being to replace senior staff to start a process of damage limitation, however, John Malone has a reputation for shaking things up and getting his own way.

Maybe VM will eventually have to be sold at a knock form price?

Some have suggested that VM will pull out of TV altogether, which I disagree with. VM makes little from selling TV, the service is mainly there to compete with other triple play operators so that they can make money from BB and telephone line rental.

This is so important to them that VM actually loose £2 a month per customer on the lowest TV pack and this is not taking into account the cost of the STB (now being given away for free without a customer contribution), depreciation, repair costs, customer support etc.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Thats the problem with sky anything above the 1tb box you have to buy at £200 and then there is the insurance cost to replace or repair the box in the event of a fault

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

The box is replaced free of charge with Sky Q if there's a fault.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

TO get UHD you need Sky Multiscreen too which takes the cost of the equipment down to £65

---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

So I called VM and the guy said they are allowing early terminations as good will.

He said he would move me to basic TV so i could get BB for £34. But when i worked out TV with Sky, the total came to more.

When I called back to cancel the BB too, they offered me a BB only price price that matched the total with Sky. So i am having Sky TV (Sports, Cinema, all HD channels) and VM BB.

I felt bad doing it, do not know why. But i feel VM are only in it for BB (they even said they were not investing in TV as much a few years back.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

3 year deal for itv done according to the Sun https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/68811...being-dropped/

Now all they need is a deal with UKTV I hope

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

They obviously did not want to sign the longest suicide note in history..

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

To be honest for a lot of people I think that has already been signed, still huge wait times for retentions on the phones.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

More on the ITV/Virgin deal.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Will that be things from ITV Encore that we've not had access to before?

Does the new deal start straight away or is there a date?

Just found this: https://www.devonlive.com/news/uk-wo...island-1834704

The agreement also includes the following:
• The supply of all ITV channels in SD and HD for in-home and out-of-home viewing
• All 4K programming on ITV including future sporting events
• An expanded supply of on-demand rights, extending the viewing window and offering access to premium ITV box sets
• Support for new functionality on the Virgin TV platform such as the ability to “start over” and “replay” programmes
• Carriage of the ITV Hub app on Virgin Media set top boxes
• An agreement to work together to enable cloud-based recordings in future

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

l am sure all will be revealed when they are both good and ready as l know only what l have read so far.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

lets see if VM and ITV deal will make UKTV rethink and start talking again

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Unless UKTV and the BBC budge from their intransigence l doubt it Dave.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Now all they need to do is get back around the table and get some positive talks with UKTV then everything will be rosy again... until the next dispute begins

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Sky and BT next year maybe..

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Good to see that ITV will be staying, but VM didn't really have any choice but to give in to ITV demands after the loss of the UKTV channels.

Sky and other channel providers will have been watching this with great interest.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

There is always a choice and how do we know they gave into demands?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Not quite, even if the UKTV channels returned tomorrow, the damage to their brand and confidence has already been done.

Who do you think will be expected to pay for the shortfall in the projected revenue because of all these cancellations and downgrades ;)

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Who said VM gave in to ITV's demands? as no one knows the ins and outs of the deal.

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------

l doubt it as some said that after the Sky Basics dispute and that did not materialise.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Hardly a big deal to get channels that are on Freeview !

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Its the content that's not on freeview that's the big deal.;)

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Quite!! I also love how Tom Mockridge talks about extra choice in his PR soundbites.... oh the irony. Only when it suits Virgin, alas.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I am sure a deal will be done eventually with UKTV, there is a lot of posturing going on from both sides and unfortunately its the customer who suffers.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

It could just as easily be VM who are being intransigent.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Possibly pip.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

all we can do is hope common sense take place and they talk and sort a deal out

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Well it's pretty clear which way your bread is buttered, Richard :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Official UKTV
‏
Verified account

@UKTV
3m
3 minutes ago


More
Hi Paul, we’ve been talking with Virgin, but it’s very unlikely UKTV will be able to return to the platform. We would suggest you try other providers.


looks like uktv don't want a deal at all

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

If they didn't want a deal why would they be bothered even talking to VM?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Because otherwise ITV wouldn't have lifted their threat to cut off the feeds to VM. These talks have been going on for a loooooong time, but, all of a sudden, 24 hours after putting the pressure on VM (whist knowing that the VM negotiating position had been weakened as a result of the removal of the UKTV channels), an agreement is made.

VM had a Hobsons choice when it came to the ITV channels and ITV PLC knew this

Of course, the details of the deal are unlikely to be made public due to the commercially sensitive nature of it.

Obviously, VM have tried to get the best value that they can for their money by ensuring that they get the full portfolio of ITV material, an agreement for cloud recording etc.

I now fully expect Channel 4, Channel 5 and possibly S4C to ask VM for retransmission fees.

---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

What do you mean by that? Your comment doesn't make any sense.

---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

For the reasons I gave earlier, the Sky basics issue was a whole different ball game.

---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Up to press, only a small number of VM customers were being allowed to leave penalty free. It will be interesting to learn if this is now a blanket policy for anyone who asks to be released.

If so, this is welcome news, but VM would have been very wise to have done as the previous owners of VM did with the Sky basics dispute and let unhappy customers leave right from the start. Short time income has been put before medium and long term revenue streams.

If they have brought this in as general policy, I would hope that any exit fees paid during the last week will be refunded. Such a move will also weaken the VM claim that their contract designed to stop customers leaving when any type or number of channels are removed was not unfair; I don't think that describing it as a goodwill gesture will cut the mustard with anybody.

---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

I agree, for the FTA channels at least.

The events of today have, for the first time, given an indication that VM have begun to realise the enormity of what they have done and their foolish response to the consequences thereof.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Walked in to this last night. One phone call got me a£10 discount for a year.Said honestly l don't watch that much TV but Freeview would cover most of my needs . Had only just sign a new deal as well !

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I'm pleased for you as an individual, but all these discounts to appease and retain customers will have exceeded what VM hoped to save from the UKTV carriage deal.

This is even without factoring in the downgrades, cancellation of up to three services, extra staff costs etc etc.

The longer this goes on, the more that VM will be digging themselves deeper into a hole, making it harder and harder to get out of before becoming impossible.

If they give in and make an agreement with UKTV as they have with ITV, the other channel operators will see VM as an easier target to obtain increased carriage fees, but I don't think that they have any other option now as the damage of doing otherwise is far greater.

Damage limitation is now they best chance they have.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Can you prove any of that as tangibly true?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

More wild speculation any proof of your statement again?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

It's partly my analysis of the situation and partly facts, this is now being picked up by the media:

http://www.seenit.co.uk/virgin-media...pat-with-uktv/

Think about it, not everyone will be getting a discount, but there have been lots of one off credits in the region of £20 to £50 and recurring discounts of £3 a month upwards.

If we take the case of Itshim, VM have had to give him £10 off per month to keep his custom. It wouldn't have cost VM anywhere near that to provide him with the UKTV channels as an individual customer. It costs them pennies, not pounds, when the cost of providing each channel to each customer.

Then, they will have spent money on the extra staff time that all this has taken up, whilst at the same time facing an unprecedented number of people calling to cancel (don't forget, many will not just be cancelling the TV service either). Ofcom have received complaints that customers are unable to cancel because they simply cannot get through, which is in itself proof of how bad the situation is.

Then, there will be the loss of projected revenue from people paying less or nothing at all due to downgrades or full cancellations. In the future because, as Chad said, people will have lost confidence in the platform to continue to provide the channels that they want there will be a slowdown in customer additions to counteract the churn caused as a result of this. On top of that, people were being prevented from leaving under threat of early exit fees or will have actually had to pay them.

The resultant resentment caused by this won't easily be forgotten by both present subscribers who were effectively forced to stay and former customers who left. The best advertising any business can have is word of mouth recommendation, but it works the other way if people are saying how poorly they were treated after complaining that they had lost channels showing series that they were watching.

For reasons I have gone into before, it's likely that the carriage costs to VM will now be inflated.

And, on top of all this, I can still see an agreement with UKTV being made to get some or all of their channels back onto the platform. In the end, I think that they will find that they have no other choice as, to not to, would be the worst of the two choices that they now have.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

That’s all pretty much an opinion piece you have linked to that carries no more weight than a forum post from anyone here.

You have given a single example of a poster being offered a decent discount, and cite a number of smaller discounts and one off payments. However there are other factors - how many would get discounts anyway by routinely threatening to cancel, rather than genuine strong feeling over UKTV.

Your assertion of this having massive consequences based on a handful of forum posts is no more valid than me claiming the other three and a half million subscribers are happy.

The subscriber numbers and ARPU figures stood up in the Sky Basics dispute over genuinely compelling and unique content. There’s no way it’ll take a hit over a handful of freeview channels and repeats. No matter how strongly you feel - you seem to be making most noise about it - even you haven’t cancelled.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

VM are not giving that many credits or discounts out really. What they are giving is relatively small. Especially if you look at revenue and customers all together as well as revenue generated from other services too.

It also won't cost 'pennies' to give customers those channels.

The UKTV channels can easily be gotten on freeview and for a small monthly payment the rest of them. So IMO it's really not a big deal at all.

Its not like Sky Basics where at the time Sky was the only other platform to view them . This time they can keep VM and easily still have access to some or all other channels. I don't believe this matter is as big a deal as some people are making out.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Well, that escalated quickly. Hopefully VM have realised that in this day and age of social media, it doesn't take long to damage the reputation of a big company. Can you imagine if Facebook and Twitter were the size they are now when the Sky channels were removed.

Personally I didn't watch much on those channels, I'm just annoyed that this has blown up at the same time as my current deal expires, haven't even bothered phoning them to renegotiate just yet seeing as the phone lines are likely to be jammed and the staff are probaby pretty peeved at every phone call being an argument

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

There are many examples of people being given discounts and credits, both on this forum and elsewhere. However, it is true that most people are either being offered nothing and/or being forced to stay. Hardly something that will do anything for customer goodwill.

As previously explained, I haven't cancelled because they are holding me to my contract and gone into why the very different approach by the previous owners helped to appease customers.

If you doubt the number of people cancelling, give the cancellation number a call and see if you can get through. There have been complaints to Ofcom because people are not able to cancel because of this.

It will be interesting to see the ARPU figures when they come out.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

But the uproar over this greater than the Sky basics removal. A lot of people obviously value these channels more. Yes you can get some of the channels on Freeview, but then most will want to record and watch at their leisure so will need a separate recording device. All this is going pee customers off even if they can get Freeview. To repeat the comedy what we're losing - Dads Army, Steptoe, Only Fools, Fawlty Towers etc, yes repeats (tbh most cable channels are) but they are classic.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...ELcuWN_F6Q76Ee

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Is it bigger though?

Or is social media now being bigger, making it appear bigger.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

On the one hand, you are saying VM are 'digging themselves deeper into a hole' and you criticise them for not doing a deal, and then you imply that they can't give in because they will be seen as an easy target by other operators. Sounds to me like a cake and eat it argument.

The point is, UKTV were charging too much for the content they were offering and it appears that they were not providing the amount of on demand content that they were contractually obliged to make available.

Virgin clearly believe that they are not getting value for money, and will not agree to UKTV's terms. UKTV will lose a lot of money as a result of this intransigence and therefore, sooner or later, they will reconsider their position.

The fact the a deal was done with ITV I think shows other operators that VM will not be pushed around, and that is a good thing. However, I think that VM need to rethink their position regarding content. If they continue only to take content from other providers, they put themselves in a more vulnerable position commercially.

Although you paint this picture of disaster with the UKTV channels being dropped, it is not. They survived the Sky channels going off air some years back, and frankly, that was a bigger deal because at that time, the attraction of having pay tv was that you got the Sky channels.

Clearly, those who watched UKTV channels for much of their TV time will be disappointed or outraged by having the channels removed, most will not be too concerned by this. Yes, there will be some cancellations, but let's not get ahead of ourselves by intimating that VM will take a big financial hit by this. They were paying a lot of money to carry UKTV channels.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Social media is very much a bubble where exaggeration often replaces real reality.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Give them a phone, let us know how it goes. I’m due to have my annual dance next month with retentions so hopefully they are generous.

I’m not sure the echo chambers of Facebook/Twitter have any meaningful effect. In the Sky Basics dispute there was significant press coverage plus forum outrage.

A small number of tweets, appropriately retweeted by UKTV, their employees, etc can appear “prominent”.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Of course the lines will be busy, because they are geared up to take a lower number of queries. Nobody would doubt that a minority of viewers would phone up to complain, go for a discount or cancel. That is to be expected.

You are painting a picture of disaster. It is far from that, and things will settle down again soon. There are plenty of other channels available to watch, many with better content too, in my opinion.

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 ----------

Really? Maybe you should take a look at the posts on here at the time! Sky One I recall was showing 'Lost' at the time, which everyone was talking about. What must-see programmes like that on UKTV are people annoyed about?

---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------

Couldn't agree more. Social media tends to blow everything out of proportion.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

True, they aren't giving out anywhere near the discounts that were given when the Sky basics left and, apparently, staff were briefed to keep customers at any cost.

VM has previously said that they want to be a service enabler, ie all content would be available on the V6. People don't want the hassle of coming out of the VM ecosystem, even to Freeview (If they have access to it that is) or pay a further £7.99 a month to regain these channels.

I was gobsmacked when VM effectively encouraged customers to have a look at what Freeview had to offer, VM are likely to find that some customers are pleasantly surprised at what they can get without paying them for it!

It's also true that there are many more (and cheaper) ways to access channels than there were in the Sky basics dispute, again, customers may find that one of these services perfectly meets all their needs.

I don't know the actual cost per subscriber for providing the UKTV channels, but was told a couple of years of do ago that paying Sky what they were asking for Sky Atlantic would have worked out at something like 45p a week. This figure is significantly more than the average cost of what it costs to bring a channel to subscribers.

The real costs to VM won't be the discounts given, but the loss of actual and future customers for years to come alonv with increased cartiage costs.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

The call centre will be geared up for a standard call volume. Even standard plus 5-10% would create a ridiculous queue, plus average call times will be higher as the discussion may now involve UKTV. It’s the school holidays so no doubt peak annual leave.

Your “real costs” could be entirely negligible. You have no way of knowing how this will impact on future negotiations. Virgin could equally become emboldened, and third parties realise they aren’t kidding when they say final offer.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

They have dug themselves into a hole and giving in to ITV was the least worse option, but this will have the effect of them now being viewed as an easy target to increase carriage costs.

The fact that ITV got nowhere after 18 months of negotiations and then, within 24 hours of giving VM an ultimatum after their platform had been weakened, VM agree a deal acceptable to them speaks for itself. Other channel operators will now be queuing up to inflate their carriage costs.

I have previously covered why the Sky basics issue was a whole different ball game on more than one occasion.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

45p a week cannot be right. Are you saying virgin refused to pay sky £ 23.40 a year for Atlantic?

Or do you mean 45p per week per customer?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I don't believe that this adequately explains the extraordinary waiting times that are so bad that people have given up and complained to Ofcom.

It's true that social media whips things up, but this is a bad thing for VM.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Source?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

As I said before, an already weakened platform could not not afford to also lose the ITV channels. It's pretty obvious that VM gave in to the requirements of ITV and this will not have gone unnoticed by the other channel providers.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I wouldn't say it was obvious.

Did you see what virgin also get in the deal?

Premium box sets
Extended on demand viewing
4k programming including sports

Not sure that is "giving in"

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Per week, per customer. This sounds like nothing, but, apparently, is an extraordinary high figure for carriage costs for one channel and it all adds up.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

That’s an opinion, not a fact. Unless you know the terms of the ITV deal.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

It's all there if you do a search, including searching Ofcom.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Guess it depends on how many customers VM lose as a result of this, how many discounts they've had to give, how much bad feeling it's caused, as to whether it has all been worth it. As UKTV weren't increasing prices it could be a false economy, VM certainly seem to have been taken by surprise by the reaction.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Obviously, VM will have wanted to get value for money and insisted that they too got something in return for their increased carriage costs.

---------- Post added at 11:26 ---------- Previous post was at 11:25 ----------

I think it's pretty obvious that ITV got what they wanted if you think about it.