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-   -   President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33705924)

Mick 10-02-2018 11:49
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Latest: Trump blocks release of Schiff Memo. Sends it back to HPSCI for revisions.

It appears Democrat Minority Intel Committee member Adam Schiff, included Sources and Methods and other Classified material, in his memo on purpose, knowing full well Trump would block it or insist on redactions. The GOP Memo did not have Sources and Methods in theirs, yet Schiff was protesting its release just last week, claiming national security issues and he goes include classified sources in his memo, the guy is a plank. :rolleyes:

Damien 10-02-2018 11:53
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
What a shame the only information that can come out about this warrant is from the Republicans.

Mick 10-02-2018 12:06
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I want to see Dem memo too. But Schiff knew what he was doing. Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein and Director Wray, reviewed it with President and Schiff has included sources and Methods and names of people in the footnotes that could compromise their safety. GOP Memo did not have this same information.

Hugh 10-02-2018 14:28
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936363)
Latest: Trump blocks release of Schiff Memo. Sends it back to HPSCI for revisions.

It appears Democrat Minority Intel Committee member Adam Schiff, included Sources and Methods and other Classified material, in his memo on purpose, knowing full well Trump would block it or insist on redactions. The GOP Memo did not have Sources and Methods in theirs, yet Schiff was protesting its release just last week, claiming national security issues and he goes include classified sources in his memo, the guy is a plank. :rolleyes:
I wonder why the entire Intel Committee, including Republicans, voted to release it then?

---------- Post added at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936366)
I want to see Dem memo too. But Schiff knew what he was doing. Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein and Director Wray, reviewed it with President and Schiff has included sources and Methods and names of people in the footnotes that could compromise their safety. GOP Memo did not have this same information.
Actually, they said that portions of the Democratic memo would raise national security or law enforcement concerns if released publicly, nothing about compromising safety.

They also had concerns about the Republican memo, but that got released by Trump.

1andrew1 10-02-2018 14:55
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35936364)
What a shame the only information that can come out about this warrant is from the Republicans.
You're right. Trump seems to be politicising the security services, which is no good thing.

Mick 10-02-2018 21:16
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35936378)
You're right. Trump seems to be politicising the security services, which is no good thing.
Where has he politicised them exactly ?

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35936372)
I wonder why the entire Intel Committee, including Republicans, voted to release it then?
Which is a stark contrast to the fact that ALL the Democrat Senators voted to block the GOP one, bleating on about National Security when even theirs contained more sensitive information. The GOP one really was not that staggering, already confirmed stuff already known.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Actually, they said that portions of the Democratic memo would raise national security or law enforcement concerns if released publicly, nothing about compromising safety.

They also had concerns about the Republican memo, but that got released by Trump.
There was no sources and methods in the GOP Memo and it was only 4 pages long, Schiff's was 10 pages long.

I read their letter pretty much as it was released last night.

It was not them who mentioned safety, if I recall it was a Republican Congressman who had commented on the release of names in the footnotes that could compromise safety and security of these people.

The bottom line is, Schiff left the sources and methods in his memo on purpose, knowing Trump would have no choice but to block it's release.

Schiff is a dodgy character and is suspected of leaking closed door testimony when Donald Trump Jnr, was giving evidence, he excused himself and left the hearing, moments later, CNN was discussing stuff raised from that hearing that was still in session...

The other issue here is that the Democrats could just be trying to save face, after all, the allegations of collusion and the dossier implicates the DNC in wrong doing during an election...

Stuart 11-02-2018 00:37
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936399)
Where has he politicised them exactly ?
He has accused them of participating in a conspiracy against him. That could be said to be politicising them, as it implies they are working for the Democrats.

However, he is doing himself no favours. Simply because the fact he is attacking the various intelligence services, will make a lot of people wonder if he is trying to discredit them because they have discovered something he is doing that is impeachable.

People are likely to think this whether he has or not, and it may hurt any chances he has of being re-elected.

passingbat 11-02-2018 10:48
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35936412)
He has accused them of participating in a conspiracy against him. .

Evidence suggests that is likely true. It's time to do an official enqiry into it.


Trump has gone out of his way to praise the rank and file of all security services, as have those investigating this; if there is corruption, it is some of the very top echelon.


Mick has kept the thread very well updated on the things that we are talking about here.

Mr K 11-02-2018 11:00
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35936425)

Mick has kept the thread very well updated on the things that we are talking about here.
i.e. the conspiracy plots ('news') you like to hear ;)

Hugh 11-02-2018 11:55
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35936425)
Evidence suggests that is likely true. It's time to do an official enqiry into it.


Trump has gone out of his way to praise the rank and file of all security services, as have those investigating this; if there is corruption, it is some of the very top echelon.


Mick has kept the thread very well updated on the things that we are talking about here.
Fox News and Hannity are not ‘evidence’ - will it be like the 10 official enquiries into Benghazi?

Trump appointed the top echelon, so I am confused how his own appointees are corruptly conspiring against him?

Mick 11-02-2018 12:52
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35936432)
Fox News and Hannity are not ‘evidence’ - will it be like the 10 official enquiries into Benghazi?
Well one of the victims mothers said Crooked Hillary lied to her what happened, Hillary said one thing in public, and another thing in an email that was leaked, so that’s good enough for me.

The GOP Memo is sufficient evidence, it’s backed up by the Grassley report released early this week. While I want to read the Dem Memo, I am not that desperate to read politicised fiction written by a weasel Democrat Congressman, Shifty Adam Schiff, who leaks stuff to CNN.

Of course Shifty Schiff has got a lot to hide. The Democrats/DNC/Hillary campaign have got caught trying to rig the Election, they rigged the Primaries, by giving the questions to the debate for Hillary, to scupper Bernie Sanders.

Then they appear to have weaponised the FBI by getting illegal FISA warrants to illegally spy on Trump and his campaign team. The FBI does a shoddy investigation in to the Clinton email investigation. Giving immunity deals to key people, allowing physical evidence to be destroyed or wiped.

All this, worse than Watergate effort, to boost Crooked Hillary’s chances and she still lost. Still makes me happy bigly that she is not the President!

Then this week we learn from more text messages from rogue agents in the FBI, that President Obama was asking and wanted to know what they are doing, this is the same Obama who said on National TV he don’t talk to the FBI or interfere in their operations on any case, period. He lied.

passingbat 11-02-2018 13:30
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35936432)
Fox News and Hannity are not ‘evidence’ - will it be like the 10 official enquiries into Benghazi?

Trump appointed the top echelon, so I am confused how his own appointees are corruptly conspiring against him?

The correct term should have been circumstantial evidence. It needs official investigation, as I stated in my reply.

Mick 11-02-2018 13:44
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35936443)
The correct term should have been circumstantial evidence. It needs official investigation, as I stated in my reply.
He knew that, Hugh is just trying to scupper the narrative because he thinks it's coming from Fox News, it's not. ;)

passingbat 11-02-2018 14:33
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936448)
He knew that, Hugh is just trying to scupper the narrative because he thinks it's coming from Fox News, it's not. ;)
I know! :);):D

Hugh 11-02-2018 20:45
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936434)
Well one of the victims mothers said Crooked Hillary lied to her what happened, Hillary said one thing in public, and another thing in an email that was leaked, so that’s good enough for me.

The GOP Memo is sufficient evidence, it’s backed up by the Grassley report released early this week. While I want to read the Dem Memo, I am not that desperate to read politicised fiction written by a weasel Democrat Congressman, Shifty Adam Schiff, who leaks stuff to CNN.

Of course Shifty Schiff has got a lot to hide. The Democrats/DNC/Hillary campaign have got caught trying to rig the Election, they rigged the Primaries, by giving the questions to the debate for Hillary, to scupper Bernie Sanders.

Then they appear to have weaponised the FBI by getting illegal FISA warrants to illegally spy on Trump and his campaign team. The FBI does a shoddy investigation in to the Clinton email investigation. Giving immunity deals to key people, allowing physical evidence to be destroyed or wiped.

All this, worse than Watergate effort, to boost Crooked Hillary’s chances and she still lost. Still makes me happy bigly that she is not the President!

Then this week we learn from more text messages from rogue agents in the FBI, that President Obama was asking and wanted to know what they are doing, this is the same Obama who said on National TV he don’t talk to the FBI or interfere in their operations on any case, period. He lied.
Erm, I know facts don't count for a lot, but as has been explained before, the FISA Warrant under discussion was for Carter Page, who had left the Trump Campaign the month before, and was not for anyone on the Trump campaign.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.6b0b04899298
Quote:
The FISA order on Page was issued Oct. 21, 2016. That timing proves that the Page warrant didn’t authorize any surveillance of the Trump campaign — because Page and the Trump campaign had parted ways before the warrant was issued. In fact, the Nunes memo makes it appear that the FBI was trying to avoid surveillance on the Trump campaign, even when doing so undermined the effectiveness of a then-months-old investigation into Russian election interference. Although the FBI had been interested in Page for some time, it was not until after the relationship between Page and the Trump campaign ended that the bureau got the FISA warrant.
Also, as was also previously explained, the FBI agents were discussing that Obama wanted the info on Russian meddling in the campaign, nothing to do with the Trump Campaign (again); the Clinton case had been closed for months before these texts were sent.

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecur...ce-not-clinton
Quote:
Associates of Strzok and Page, who were having an affair at the time, reportedly said the two were talking about Obama wanting information on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

The exchange occurred days before Obama met with Russian President Vladimir Putin and spoke to him about election tampering, The Wall Street Journal reported.

By the time the texts were sent, the FBI had closed its investigation into the Clinton email case. It did not reopen the case until October.

Mick 11-02-2018 21:29
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35936474)
Erm, I know facts don't count for a lot, but as has been explained before, the FISA Warrant under discussion was for Carter Page, who had left the Trump Campaign the month before, and was not for anyone on the Trump campaign.
There was a FISA warrant done on Trump.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1518384353

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Also, as was also previously explained, the FBI agents were discussing that Obama wanted the info on Russian meddling in the campaign, nothing to do with the Trump Campaign (again); the Clinton case had been closed for months before these texts were sent.

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecur...ce-not-clinton
It does not remove the fact Obama still lied, he said on TV he does not interfere or speak to the FBI on cases they are working on, period, ever. Those were his words, bolded & underlined, on TV, he lied.

1andrew1 11-02-2018 21:43
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936476)
It does not remove the fact Obama still lied, he said on TV he does not interfere or speak to the FBI on cases they are working on, period, ever. Those were his words, bolded & underlined, on TV, he lied.
Still no evidence that Obama spoke to the FBI or interfered in any of its investigations. eg he may have requested an aid to get an update of the Russia investigation.

Damien 11-02-2018 22:02
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936476)
There was a FISA warrant done on Trump.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1518384353
That is a very partisan breakdown. The fact it uses loaded language 'minor missteps by Trump' but 'weaponised intelligence' by the FBI is a red flag. If such language were used in court it would be overruled. You don't just get to insert dubious, unproven, premises into discussions like that.

It says it was done only for political gain which is unproven. You can't just assume what the intention was for the FBI to open their investigation. You can't assume the intel gathered from these wiretaps was done for political gain especially when the the period largely covers time after the election.

I don't think there was a FISA warrant on Trump, it was on Carter Page, so I don't know where this FISA warrant on Trump comes from. I haven't been paying attention in the last week so maybe that's a new revelation. But the memo was about the warrant on Page not Trump. So that just seems made up.

I don't really see the point of these discussions anymore because we're operating in different worlds. I never heard of Trump having a FISA warrant against him and nor does it appear has any mainstream source I can find. I google it and all I get is NWO/Illuminati sites. If we haven't got a common basis for what can be considered reliable or true then this is useless.

Mick 12-02-2018 03:04
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35936478)
Still no evidence that Obama spoke to the FBI or interfered in any of its investigations. eg he may have requested an aid to get an update of the Russia investigation.
Did you say that without applying any logic?

Obama getting an Aide to get into contact with FBI is still Obama getting in to contact with the FBI. :rolleyes: :dunce:

---------- Post added at 03:04 ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35936482)
That is a very partisan breakdown. The fact it uses loaded language 'minor missteps by Trump' but 'weaponised intelligence' by the FBI is a red flag. If such language were used in court it would be overruled. You don't just get to insert dubious, unproven, premises into discussions like that.

It says it was done only for political gain which is unproven. You can't just assume what the intention was for the FBI to open their investigation. You can't assume the intel gathered from these wiretaps was done for political gain especially when the the period largely covers time after the election.

I don't think there was a FISA warrant on Trump, it was on Carter Page, so I don't know where this FISA warrant on Trump comes from. I haven't been paying attention in the last week so maybe that's a new revelation. But the memo was about the warrant on Page not Trump. So that just seems made up.

I don't really see the point of these discussions anymore because we're operating in different worlds. I never heard of Trump having a FISA warrant against him and nor does it appear has any mainstream source I can find. I google it and all I get is NWO/Illuminati sites. If we haven't got a common basis for what can be considered reliable or true then this is useless.
A FISA Warrant on Carter Page, is all they needed to start spying on Trump, so in essence, it is still a FISA Warrant on Trump. A normal FISA Warrant grants surveillance of any contacts of the FISA target and it doesn’t stop there, then the contacts of the contact.

You read GOP Memo, they renewed the FISA 3 times, every 90 days, using the Dossier to justify the renewel, the Dossier was about Trump, not Carter Page. Thus, the FBI/Intelligence agencies, I’d say, were really after surveillance of Trump or his campaign staff, or both.

FISA renewals are strict in that a new identifiable and justified reason should be used, it wasn’t, the Dossier was used every time.

So going back to that Breakdown which you claim is partisan, is actually fairly accurate actually. Deputy Director, Andy McCabe did say no Dossier, no FISA Warrant in a testimony. You’ve admitted in the past you’re no legal expert, so you cannot say what would be overruled any more than I can.

Just out of interest. Did you miss the NYT article on the Intelligence Agencies trying to pay for dirt from the Russians on Trump, this weekend?

1andrew1 12-02-2018 07:34
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936496)
Did you say that without applying any logic? Obama getting an Aide to get into contact with FBI is still Obama getting in to contact with the FBI. :rolleyes: :dunce:
Obama did not say "contact". He said "speak to". Politicians choose the words carefully. Those with a legal background like Obama - even more so. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936496)
A FISA Warrant on Carter Page, is all they needed to start spying on Trump, so in essence, it is still a FISA Warrant on Trump
Why don't you just admit you were wrong on this? You post a lot and it's inevitable that without double-checking by someone else first, some of the stuff anyone posts even in the best of faith will be wrong.

Mick 12-02-2018 10:45
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35936507)
Obama did not say "contact". He said "speak to". Politicians choose the words carefully. Those with a legal background like Obama - even more so. ;)
‘Speak to’ on behalf of someone else, is still the original person getting in to contact with somebody. There is no pussyfooting around this with semantics. Apply the logic FFS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Why don't you just admit you were wrong on this? You post a lot and it's inevitable that without double-checking by someone else first, some of the stuff anyone posts even in the best of faith will be wrong.
Erm, simply because I’m not wrong.

1andrew1 12-02-2018 10:50
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936524)
‘Speak to’ on behalf of someone else, is still the original person getting in to contact with somebody. There is no pussyfooting around this with semantics. Apply the logic FFS.

Erm, simply because I’m not wrong.
As your colleague Damien has stated, if we disagree on the fundamentals of what constitutes facts, it's unconstructive to continue the debate.

Mick 12-02-2018 11:02
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35936526)
As your colleague Damien has stated, if we disagree on the fundamentals of what constitutes facts, it's unconstructive to continue the debate.
Speak for yourself. You’re the one not applying simple logic here. You’d be the type to argue Black was White, given half the chance. :rolleyes:

Mr K 12-02-2018 20:27
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936531)
Speak for yourself. You’re the one not applying simple logic here. You’d be the type to argue Black was White, given half the chance. :rolleyes:
And you'd argue white was black Mick (if Trump tweeted it ! :D )

Maggy 13-02-2018 08:54
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43034789

Quote:
The US president's daughter-in-law, Vanessa Trump, was taken to hospital as a precaution after opening an envelope containing white powder, police say.

The letter was addressed to Donald Trump Jr, Mr Trump's eldest son, at his apartment in Manhattan.

Mrs Trump and two others at the scene were decontaminated by firefighters and taken to hospital for evaluation.

NYPD told the BBC they tested the white powder in the envelope and confirmed that it was non-hazardous.
This is disgusting. Attacking the POTUS family in this way is not on..However much you may dislike the man himself.

Hugh 13-02-2018 18:05
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35936609)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43034789



This is disgusting. Attacking the POTUS family in this way is not on..However much you may dislike the man himself.
Completely agree - totally wrong.

Mr K 13-02-2018 21:13
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Mike Pence 'thinks Jesus tells him to say things', says former Trump aide Omarosa
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8207876.html

Oh good, when the Trumpster finally does get impeached, the Lord's messenger is waiting to take over !

Mick 13-02-2018 23:22
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35936713)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8207876.html

Oh good, when the Trumpster finally does get impeached, the Lord's messenger is waiting to take over !
Don't take the piss out of the rights or beliefs of people who have faiths and religious expression.

You say 'Finally does'... like it is going to happen, as it stands it is very unlikely for the foreseeable future.

What has he done to warrant impeachment and don't mention the Russia thing, that was actually done by the DNC/Crooked Hillary campaign via Steele via the Russians ?

Are you aware there has now been two vote resolutions for Impeachment put forward by Al Green, these have been voted down and even by most House Democrats.

And it takes a lot to impeach a sitting President. A simple Majority in the House of Representatives and then, two thirds Majority in the Senate to be precise. Democrats sit on 49 Senate Seats currently.

Even if in the Mid Terms, Democrats some how pulled off a runaway victory in the Senate, it would not be enough to reach the 66 votes required for conviction.

33 Seats are up for grabs this Mid Term Election cycle, 23 of them already possessed by Democrats, and 10 of those seats are in States Donald Trump won in 2016. Even if the Democrats won them all, it will still be 7 votes short to guarantee a successful Impeachment just by Democrats alone.

Then there is the issue to contend with the millions of people in the US that are still behind Trump who would very likely take to the streets. Impeachment would just cause an even bigger divide than there is currently.

TheDaddy 14-02-2018 02:59
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35936713)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8207876.html

Oh good, when the Trumpster finally does get impeached, the Lord's messenger is waiting to take over !
Perhaps he should start listening to him, I can't believe it was Jesus he was quoting 're his death penalty stance, anyway I'll stop before I take the piss out of him, it's perfectly fine for him to politicise his faith as long as no one jokes about it.

passingbat 14-02-2018 11:09
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35936713)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8207876.html

Oh good, when the Trumpster finally does get impeached, the Lord's messenger is waiting to take over !

If Pence is a Born again Christian, he should be hearing from Jesus, along with the wisdom to know if/when/how, it should be shared.


https://www.thoughtco.com/bible-vers...ing-god-712122

Mick 14-02-2018 12:48
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
The reason I said what I said about faith and not taking the piss out of peoples beliefs in god is that we do actually have members on this forum who do believe and very strong faiths in god and have strong Christian values. Some of them are on the team. We will not turn this forum in to a bashing of faiths or religions on this forum.

Hugh 14-02-2018 17:00
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
“I am Mr. Trump’s longtime special counsel and I have proudly served in that role for more than a decade,” Cohen said Tuesday night in a statement first reported by the New York Times. “In a private transaction in 2016, I used my own personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000 to Ms. Stephanie Clifford. Neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign was a party to the transaction with Ms. Clifford, and neither reimbursed me for the payment, either directly or indirectly.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nl_most&wpmm=1

I wonder why Trump’s ‘longtime special counsel’ paid someone $130k out of his own pocket?

richard s 14-02-2018 19:32
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Possibly to remain silent over some matter.

TheDaddy 14-02-2018 20:32
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936773)
The reason I said what I said about faith and not taking the piss out of peoples beliefs in god is that we do actually have members on this forum who do believe and very strong faiths in god and have strong Christian values. Some of them are on the team. We will not turn this forum in to a bashing of faiths or religions on this forum.
I'm one of them Mick! It's a very well intentioned policy to imo, it's just a shame politicians can't help themselves from bringing God into politics especially when Christian teachings go directly against a lot of the stuff he espouses, if you can't separate your faith from your political career you should be prepared to be called a hypocrite or charlatan

Hugh 14-02-2018 21:24
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35936821)
Quote:
“I am Mr. Trump’s longtime special counsel and I have proudly served in that role for more than a decade,” Cohen said Tuesday night in a statement first reported by the New York Times. “In a private transaction in 2016, I used my own personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000 to Ms. Stephanie Clifford. Neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign was a party to the transaction with Ms. Clifford, and neither reimbursed me for the payment, either directly or indirectly.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nl_most&wpmm=1

I wonder why Trump’s ‘longtime special counsel’ paid someone $130k out of his own pocket?
Update

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...t-trump-affair
Quote:
Adult film star Stormy Daniels reportedly believes recent comments by President Trump's lawyer open the way for her to discuss publicly her alleged affair with Trump.

A manager for Daniels, whose real name is Stephanie Clifford, told The Associated Press on Wednesday that Daniels believes Michael Cohen, the president's personal lawyer, violated a 2016 nondisclosure agreement by telling The New York Times that he personally paid her to stay quiet about the 2006 affair.

Mr K 14-02-2018 21:31
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35936867)
She's deserves every cent if she's touched the Trumpster. The trauma will be with her for life....

Mick 14-02-2018 22:22
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
1 Attachment(s)
BREAKING: General Michael Flynn's Legal Defense team has filed a Unopposed motion for Protection Order Governing Discovery.

Today’s Stipulated Motion gives the Flynn team access to ALL evidence, including the FD-302’s, as long as the evidence is kept secret.

Even though Gen. Flynn entered a Plea Agreement, After the filing today, it is clear Flynn’s legal team is preparing to FIGHT the charges based on new evidence of Corruption in the FBI & Strzok potentially framing Flynn.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1518646349

Mr K 14-02-2018 22:39
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
BREAKING: there's an abundance of evidence of Trump's collusion with Russia (and the compromising video they have of him !)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...on-adam-schiff
Quote:
Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House intelligence committee, said Wednesday that the panel had seen an “abundance” of evidence of collusion with Russia and obstruction by Donald Trump’s campaign and administration that is not yet public.

Speaking to reporters in Washington, Schiff said a lot of information was already in the public domain that pointed to extensive contacts between the Trump campaign team and the Kremlin, and later efforts by the Trump entourage to cover up those contacts. But Schiff said there was much more to come out.

Mick 14-02-2018 23:10
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35936882)
BREAKING: there's an abundance of evidence of Trump's collusion with Russia (and the compromising video they have of him !)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...on-adam-schiff
There is no abundance of anything.

Again you post stuff that is totally misleading, it says in the story you link to, 'possible' video, it does not say they have any compromising video.

This was published by these idiots hours ago, yet not one major network is talking about it, because guess what ?

There is still NO Evidence.

Nothing on Sky News, nothing on BBC and I even went to CNN. The guardian is just rehashing old shit from the dossier as though it is fact and getting the very political horse shit maneuvering by the leaker Democrat *******, Shifty Adam Schiff who is trying to save face, given that it was HIS ******* party which paid for dossier that originally obtained from the Russians, this is the real collusion and there is definitely documented evidence of this.

OLD BOY 14-02-2018 23:11
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936773)
The reason I said what I said about faith and not taking the piss out of peoples beliefs in god is that we do actually have members on this forum who do believe and very strong faiths in god and have strong Christian values. Some of them are on the team. We will not turn this forum in to a bashing of faiths or religions on this forum.
I am sorry, Mick, I agree with a lot of what you say, but this is wrong.

Some people believe that they can twist perception of what is happening through religion, and therefore this is a fair debate. How can anyone truly believe that Republican views are Christian?

I'm not in any way religious, but the cynicism employed by these people is enough to make you puke!

They are simply self serving bigots who are trying to turn around the message of the Bible. They get away with it because of the cultist attraction that seems to appeal to so many snowflakes, profiteers and sadists in our society.

I guess that sounds a bit extreme. Until you think about it. :sick:

---------- Post added at 23:11 ---------- Previous post was at 23:10 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936887)
There is no abundance of anything.

Again you post stuff that is totally misleading, it says in the story you link to, 'possible' video, it does not say they have any compromising video.

This was published by these idiots hours ago, yet not one major network is talking about it, because guess what ?

There is still NO Evidence.

Nothing on Sky News, nothing on BBC and I even went to CNN. The guardian is just rehashing old shit from the dossier as though it is fact and getting the very political horse shit maneuvering by the leaker Democrat *******, Shifty Adam Schiff who is trying to save face, given that it was HIS ******* party which paid for dossier that originally obtained from the Russians, this is the real collusion and there is definitely documented evidence of this.
I agree. Let's see the evidence.

Hugh 14-02-2018 23:21
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936876)
BREAKING: General Michael Flynn's Legal Defense team has filed a Unopposed motion for Protection Order Governing Discovery.

Today’s Stipulated Motion gives the Flynn team access to ALL evidence, including the FD-302’s, as long as the evidence is kept secret.

Even though Gen. Flynn entered a Plea Agreement, After the filing today, it is clear Flynn’s legal team is preparing to FIGHT the charges based on new evidence of Corruption in the FBI & Strzok potentially framing Flynn.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1518646349
It was Mueller who requested the Protective Order, and Mueller did the same thing to Manafort and Gates in November to stop them leaking to the press.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...docs-to-press/

Mick 14-02-2018 23:32
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35936894)
It was Mueller who raised the Protective Order

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile...docs-to-press/
Yes, only because Flynn's legal team have requested to see all documents and evidence, they are now said to be fighting the charges given that it was the disgraced FBI Agent, Strzok who initially interviewed Flynn.

passingbat 14-02-2018 23:34
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35936888)
I am sorry, Mick, I agree with a lot of what you say, but this is wrong.

Some people believe that they can twist perception of what is happening through religion, and therefore this is a fair debate. How can anyone truly believe that Republican views are Christian?

I'm not in any way religious, but the cynicism employed by these people is enough to make you puke!

They are simply self serving bigots who are trying to turn around the message of the Bible. They get away with it because of the cultist attraction that seems to appeal to so many snowflakes, profiteers and sadists in our society.

I guess that sounds a bit extreme. Until you think about it.


I haven't a clue what you are talking about, OB. Certainly way off what Mick was talking about.

Mick 14-02-2018 23:38
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I am a bit perplexed as well. I never mentioned anything about Republican Christianity. Mr K was mocking Pence who says he communicates with Jesus.

OLD BOY 15-02-2018 00:07
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35936899)
I am a bit perplexed as well. I never mentioned anything about Republican Christianity. Mr K was mocking Pence who says he communicates with Jesus.
You said, Mick 'Don't take the piss out of the rights or beliefs of people who have faiths and religious expression.'


If I remember from my religious studies at school correctly, Jesus was definitely Christian.

I was not getting at you, Mick. I was trying to say (unsuccessfully, obviously) that religion is an important, but misguided, influence in this debate and in American politics.

---------- Post added 15-02-2018 at 00:07 ---------- Previous post was 14-02-2018 at 23:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35936897)


I haven't a clue what you are talking about, OB. Certainly way off what Mick was talking about.
I was commenting about the relevance between Republicanism and religion. I really don't see how the two go together!

Damien 15-02-2018 08:46
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I don't think the story about Pence is sourced well-enough to take it seriously. It's just some random commentator reporting a 3rd hand story.

If it were true it would be a legitimate thing to talk about though. However there is a big difference between 'I talk to Jesus and he tells me to forgive/love/help etc', i.e when they're talking about the general message people take out of religion, and 'jesus talks me and gives me specific policy ideas on how to achieve a high-growth economy'. The latter would be quite a concern IMO......

Hugh 15-02-2018 10:25
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35936938)
I don't think the story about Pence is sourced well-enough to take it seriously. It's just some random commentator reporting a 3rd hand story.

If it were true it would be a legitimate thing to talk about though. However there is a big difference between 'I talk to Jesus and he tells me to forgive/love/help etc', i.e when they're talking about the general message people take out of religion, and 'jesus talks me and gives me specific policy ideas on how to achieve a high-growth economy'. The latter would be quite a concern IMO......
Well, that would never happen...

Oh, wait

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...q-6262644.html
Quote:
President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.

Mr K 15-02-2018 10:36
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35936956)
Well, that would never happen...

Oh, wait

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...q-6262644.html
Lol, it's a nice get out, tell everyone God to do you told you to do it ! Americans would probably accept that.

Seriously I do worry if those who have access to the 'button' listening to voices/God rather than their military advisers.

ianch99 15-02-2018 10:39
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35936956)
Well, that would never happen...

Oh, wait

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...q-6262644.html
I find this also disturbing:

Faith Leaders Pray for Trump in Oval Office, Enjoy 'Open Door' at White House

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/loc...?itok=fb1dy9lr

OLD BOY 15-02-2018 10:40
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35936959)
Lol, it's a nice get out, tell everyone God to do you told you to do it ! Americans would probably accept that.

Seriously I do worry if those who have access to the 'button' listening to voices/God rather than their military advisers.
We agree on that. I had an imaginary friend once, but I was only four.

passingbat 15-02-2018 11:41
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Christians are told to pray for all of their leaders, regardless of whether they support their views or not.


They should pray for Trump, and they should have prayed for Obama when he was President. Many Christians did pray for Obama,


Trump invited Christians in the Whitehouse; Obama was free to do the same.


I'm surptised you missed this one ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YoWKZXzXyM


Which cheered my heart, and probablt saddened a few others on here.

Mr K 15-02-2018 12:25
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35936980)
Christians are told to pray for all of their leaders, regardless of whether they support their views or not.


They should pray for Trump, and they should have prayed for Obama when he was President. Many Christians did pray for Obama,


Trump invited Christians in the Whitehouse; Obama was free to do the same.


I'm surptised you missed this one ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YoWKZXzXyM


Which cheered my heart, and probablt saddened a few others on here.
Do you really think Trump has strong religious convictions or is he being politically opportunistic ? Certainly the life he's led and things he's done doesn't suggest he follows Christian teachings !

Hugh 15-02-2018 12:59
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35936980)
Christians are told to pray for all of their leaders, regardless of whether they support their views or not.


They should pray for Trump, and they should have prayed for Obama when he was President. Many Christians did pray for Obama,


Trump invited Christians in the Whitehouse; Obama was free to do the same.


I'm surptised you missed this one ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YoWKZXzXyM


Which cheered my heart, and probablt saddened a few others on here.
Do you mean like the White House Easter Prayer Breakfasts he held every year? (and which Trump discontinued).

Or do you mean when he issued a National Day of Prayer proclamation every year he was President?

Or do you mean the National Day of Prayer Breakfasts he held every February?

ianch99 15-02-2018 13:14
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Does anyone know why my linked picture is no longer working?

No problem, here it is:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/02/6.jpg

See also: What's behind Trump's prayer in the Oval Office

Quote:
All of which leads us to the odd sight of Donald Trump emerging as the choice of evangelical leaders. Trump doesn't regularly attend church, has publicly displayed a wobbly knowledge of the Bible, and has spent his life worshipping Mammon, running casinos (one of which had a strip club) and openly cheating on at least two of his three wives.

Nevertheless, he has promised to advance the social conservative agenda by appointing anti-abortion judges, and for many religious leaders that is good enough.
As I said disturbing that people with such right of centre views have such a close and intimate relationship with the President.

passingbat 15-02-2018 13:17
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35937001)
Do you mean like the White House Easter Prayer Breakfasts he held every year? (and which Trump discontinued).

Or do you mean when he issued a National Day of Prayer proclamation every year he was President?

Or do you mean the National Day of Prayer Breakfasts he held every February?

Well done Obama, seriously. Why are people on here attacking Trump about his Christian connections?

Mr K 15-02-2018 13:21
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937006)
Well done Obama, seriously. Why are people on here attacking Trump about his Christian connections?
Because he doesn't have any connections of genuine beliefs, he's a hypocrite.

papa smurf 15-02-2018 13:58
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937006)
Well done Obama, seriously. Why are people on here attacking Trump about his Christian connections?
because their sad and are running out of reasons to hate him .

denphone 15-02-2018 14:30
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35937017)
because their sad and are running out of reasons to hate him .
Oh golly l must be a very miserable old git then..;)

ianch99 15-02-2018 20:54
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937006)
Well done Obama, seriously. Why are people on here attacking Trump about his Christian connections?
You misunderstand. It is the type of Christian connections I find disturbing. If you can put aside how he can, with his history of personal & business behaviour, be "acceptable" as a Christian President, the Evangelicals he associates with have dubious views on a range of areas e.g. advocacy of gun rights, anti-abortion, anti same-sex marriage, anti-gay, subordination of women in the ministry & marriage, etc.

These people seem to have a direct communication channel to POTUS that other pressure groups do not have. How much he listens to them and how much he positions legislation favouring their views remains to be seen but I do think it is disturbing all the same ..

passingbat 16-02-2018 01:12
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35937059)
have dubious views on a range of areas e.g. advocacy of gun rights, anti-abortion, anti same-sex marriage, anti-gay, subordination of women in the ministry & marriage, etc.

..

gun rights are an American thing, not a Biblical thing.


anti-abortion is a Biblical thing; They are Christian and therefore they support it.


I have shared my views on Homosexuality several times. Any Christian who hates gay people is in the wrong, because God loves them and his desire is that they turn to Him for help


subordination of women in the ministry & marriage, etc. That is utter nonsense. Women's ministry is alive and well in churches


According to a recent book on Trump, he started watching Christian TV about 10 years ago. He had a friend, who was a prominent evangelical teacher who guided him through questions that he had. She was a woman.


Personally, I am delighted that that there is a strong Christian presence around Trump. Long may it continue.

ianch99 16-02-2018 08:26
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937080)
gun rights are an American thing, not a Biblical thing.
Agreed. So the last thing you would want to hear, as a Christian, is Richard Land having this view:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Land#Gun_rights

Quote:
In the aftermath of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, in December 2012, Land made the following comments in an NPR interview regarding the use of a weapon: "If I find that someone is trying to do harm to someone else, I believe that I have a moral and Christian obligation to do what ever I can - with the least amount of violence necessary - but if necessary, lethal violence to stop them from harming others. That's loving my neighbor as myself. That's doing unto others as I would have them do unto me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937080)
subordination of women in the ministry & marriage, etc. That is utter nonsense. Women's ministry is alive and well in churches
Jack Graham, pastor of Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano, Texas, one of those present, holds the views that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southe...er-based_roles

Quote:
By explicitly defining the pastoral office as the exclusive domain of males, the 2000 BF&M provision becomes the SBC's first-ever official position against women pastors.
and

Quote:
The 2000 BF&M now prescribes a husband-headship authority structure, closely following the apostle Paul's exhortations in Ephesians 5:21–33
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937080)
Personally, I am delighted that that there is a strong Christian presence around Trump. Long may it continue.
You may be delighted with the close relationship these kind of people have with Trump but I am sure a lot of Americans are not

passingbat 16-02-2018 11:06
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35937084)
Agreed. So the last thing you would want to hear, as a Christian, is Richard Land having this view:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Land#Gun_rights





Jack Graham, pastor of Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano, Texas, one of those present, holds the views that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southe...er-based_roles



and





You may be delighted with the close relationship these kind of people have with Trump but I am sure a lot of Americans are not

Am I responsible for What every other Christian person in the world says? No! You know my views, which I'm happy to answer on. Don't expect me to answer for others's views. My views are based on the Bible, which I believe to be the infalable inspired word of God.


High powered supposed Christians get it wrong. The current Pope gets it wrong. Here's what he says: 'Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too!'
http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/fait...y.php?id=51077




Here's what the Bible says: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2 V 8-10

Hugh 16-02-2018 13:38
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Bannon speaks for twenty hours in Mueller investigation and answers all questions, then refuses to answer any questions at Senate Hearing, except for 25 pre-approved questions from White House, to which he answers "no".

https://apnews.com/b6fa94335f644d3da...-investigation
Quote:
Steve Bannon, the combative former chief strategist for President Donald Trump, was interrogated for 20 hours over two days this week as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation, according to a person familiar with the process.

The person, who declined to be named because they were not authorized to publicly discuss the investigation, said Bannon answered every question that was put to him by Mueller’s team. That’s in contrast to a Thursday interview with the House intelligence committee, where Bannon declined to answer some of lawmakers’ questions, despite a subpoena...

...After Bannon’s roughly three-hour interview on Capitol Hill, Republicans on the House intelligence panel were weighing whether to hold him in contempt. Like his first visit to the House intelligence committee in January, Bannon declined to answer questions in the closed-door session.

According to lawmakers of both parties, Bannon would only answer 25 questions that had been pre-approved by the White House when asked about any events in the time period after President Donald Trump’s election. His answer to each question was “no” and he told the committee he was not authorized to elaborate...

...Texas Rep. Mike Conaway, the Republican leading the panel’s Russia probe, said Bannon would only answer the pre-approved questions about any time period past the day Trump was elected in November 2016. He said committee Republicans would discuss whether to hold Bannon in contempt with House lawyers and with House Speaker Paul Ryan, who is likely to have the final say.

“That’s an ongoing conversation we’ll have among an awful lot of lawyers,” Conaway said after Bannon’s interview.

At least one Republican on the intelligence panel said before the interview that a contempt vote would be necessary if Bannon were uncooperative. Florida Rep. Tom Rooney said Tuesday that if Bannon didn’t cooperate with the panel and they didn’t hold him in contempt, that would set a bad precedent.

“For not just our committee but every committee, that (subpoenas) don’t mean anything, that it’s just a hollow threat,” Rooney said. “You can’t do that.”


---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937100)
Am I responsible for What every other Christian person in the world says? No! You know my views, which I'm happy to answer on. Don't expect me to answer for others's views. My views are based on the Bible, which I believe to be the infalable inspired word of God.


High powered supposed Christians get it wrong. The current Pope gets it wrong. Here's what he says: 'Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too!'
http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/fait...y.php?id=51077




Here's what the Bible says: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2 V 8-10
So are you saying all of those died before Jesus started his mission, and all of those since who lived in lands which did not know about Christianity, and all Jews, will not be able to go to Heaven?

John 14:6
Quote:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

pip08456 16-02-2018 14:39
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Don't worry Hugh, PB will come back with something from the bible to cover that, they always do.

Mr K 16-02-2018 15:39
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35937118)
Don't worry Hugh, PB will come back with something from the bible to cover that, they always do.
Probably something from the Book of Trump Chapter 12 v9-12

Donald Trump: You know and I moved on her actually. You know she was down on Palm Beach.

Unknown: She used to be great. She’s still very beautiful.

Trump: I moved on her and I failed. I’ll admit it. I did try and f*** her. She was married.

Unknown: That’s huge news.

Trump. No, no, Nancy. This was— And I moved on her very heavily in fact. I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture. I took her out furniture. I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there, and she was married.

Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big, phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.

[The men spot Arianne Zucker waiting for them outside the bus]

Bush: Sheesh, your girl’s hot as shit. In the purple.

Trump: Whoa! Yes! Whoa!

Unknown: Yes! The Donald has scored. Whoa, my man!

Trump: Look at you. You are a pussy.

[crosstalk as the bus doors open and close - Trump is still on the bus]

Trump: Maybe it’s a different one.

Bush: It better not be the publicist. No, it’s her. It’s —

Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful - I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait.

And when you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything.

Bush: Whatever you want.

Trump: Grab them by the p****. You can do anything.

Praise the Lord, a true man of faith....

passingbat 16-02-2018 15:53
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35937114)

So are you saying all of those died before Jesus started his mission, and all of those since who lived in lands which did not know about Christianity, and all Jews, will not be able to go to Heaven?

John 14:6





No. salvation in the Old Testament was exactly the same as the new Testament, By Faith

Genesis 15:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.




Hebrews 11 New International Version (NIV)
Faith in Action

11 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.”[a] For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God. 11 And by faith even Sarah, who was past childbearing age, was enabled to bear children because she[b] considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions concerning the burial of his bones.
23 By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.
24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. 26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.
29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the army had marched around them for seven days.
31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.[d]
32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson and Jephthah, about David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. 37 They were put to death by stoning;[e] they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground.
39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

---------- Post added at 15:53 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35937118)
Don't worry Hugh, PB will come back with something from the bible to cover that, they always do.
You were right ;)

Mr Banana 16-02-2018 18:09
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
This is interesting?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43092085
Thirteen Russians have been charged with interfering in the US 2016 election, in a major development in the FBI investigation.

Hugh 16-02-2018 18:46
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937126)
No. salvation in the Old Testament was exactly the same as the new Testament, By Faith

Genesis 15:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 Abram believed the Lord, and he credited it to him as righteousness.
snippets snip snip

---------- Post added at 15:53 ---------- Previous post was at 15:52 ----------

[/COLOR]
You were right ;)
Thank you for that.

What about all those born since the start of Christianity, including the Jews?

Mr K 16-02-2018 19:49
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35937143)
This is interesting?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43092085
Thirteen Russians have been charged with interfering in the US 2016 election, in a major development in the FBI investigation.
Mr Mueller is doing s good job. Bit by bit, he's getting to the truth of the matter. Attempts by the White House to discredit him are purely coincidental....

1andrew1 16-02-2018 20:30
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35937143)
This is interesting?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43092085
Thirteen Russians have been charged with interfering in the US 2016 election, in a major development in the FBI investigation.
Had to laugh at this bit. Credit for the Russians' creativity :)
Quote:
Financed the building of a cage large enough to hold an actress portraying Hillary Clinton in a prison uniform

Mick 16-02-2018 21:19
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35937162)
Mr Mueller is doing s good job. Bit by bit, he's getting to the truth of the matter. Attempts by the White House to discredit him are purely coincidental....
Which is interesting, given the bullshit you posted from the guardian a day or so ago saying they had a compromising video when that is not what was said at all.

Also, the WH has not discredited him, they are discrediting the allegation made, Mueller did not make the allegation, he is merely investigating it and as yet, has found no evidence.

Still no comments from you about the evidence of collusion regarding Crooked Hillary and the Democrats forking out for the Fake Russian dossier from Fusion GPS via Steele via the Russians..... because obviously it doesn't suit your narrative. :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 21:19 ---------- Previous post was at 21:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35937143)
This is interesting?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43092085
Thirteen Russians have been charged with interfering in the US 2016 election, in a major development in the FBI investigation.
Yes, interesting that even with the interference it had no impact on the end result and no American is included on any of those charges.

Mr K 16-02-2018 21:22
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937188)
Still no comments from you about the evidence of collusion regarding Crooked Hillary and the Democrats forking out for the Fake Russian dossier from Fusion GPS via Steele via the Russians..... because obviously it doesn't suit your narrative. :rolleyes:
'Crooked Hillary' - isn't that a narrative ? a Russian narrative it seems ...

How gullible Trump disciples have been.

passingbat 16-02-2018 21:32
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937188)

Still no comments from you about the evidence of collusion regarding Crooked Hillary and the Democrats forking out for the Fake Russian dossier from Fusion GPS via Steele via the Russians..... because obviously it doesn't suit your narrative. :rolleyes:

.

Mr K must the CNN of the Forum ;). Sorry Mr K :)

Mr K 16-02-2018 21:35
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937197)
Mr K must the CNN of the Forum ;). Sorry Mr K :)
And you are the GOD channel and Mick is Mr Fox :D

Damien 16-02-2018 21:46
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937188)
.
Also, the WH has not discredited him, they are discrediting the allegation made, Mueller did not make the allegation, he is merely investigating it and as yet, has found no evidence.
Well he was appointed to investigate Russian interference which it appears he has found.

I think today at least means Mueller’s investigstion will be allowed to run it’s course. Some Republicans we’re suggesting it should be shut down .

Mick 16-02-2018 22:00
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35937192)
'Crooked Hillary' - isn't that a narrative ? a Russian narrative it seems ...

How gullible Trump disciples have been.
Says you, who got the guardian story totally wrong, so how gullible and naive are you ?

The shoe fits, now wear it. :rolleyes:

Mr K 16-02-2018 22:20
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937204)
Says you, who got the guardian story totally wrong, so how gullible and naive are you ?

The shoe fits, now wear it. :rolleyes:
If we've each got one shoe Mick, that's no good to either of us ;)

I'm afraid there's only one person on this thread with a one sided narrative.... (no clues !)

ianch99 16-02-2018 23:24
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35937198)
And you are the GOD channel and Mick is Mr Fox :D
and what does the Fox say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE

passingbat 16-02-2018 23:28
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35937152)
Thank you for that.

What about all those born since the start of Christianity, including the Jews?

Those born since the start of Christianity, of decision-able age, will only be saved through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jewish people are exactly the same. Paul (a Jewish person} wanted to make his ministry to the Gentiles, so successful that his fellow Jews would be envious and commit their lives to Jesus that he could save at least some of them.


Romans 11 13- 15 New International Version (NIV}


"I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15


Messianic Jews, are saved

OLD BOY 17-02-2018 00:52
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937225)
Those born since the start of Christianity, of decision-able age, will only be saved through the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jewish people are exactly the same. Paul (a Jewish person} wanted to make his ministry to the Gentiles, so successful that his fellow Jews would be envious and commit their lives to Jesus that he could save at least some of them.


Romans 11 13- 15 New International Version (NIV}


"I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15


Messianic Jews, are saved
I'm afraid, passingbat, that I, and I suspect most on this forum, are not moved by these quotations. The Bible is a terrific read for those who want to study it, but it was written by man, not God.

And am I not right in saying that the account of Jesus and the run up to his crucifixion (and of course what happened after this) was committed to paper five generations after it happened?

You are believing in a book that was written by people who believed that the Earth was flat and who believed in magical occurrences.

Nothing to do with Trump and the world we live in now, though.

Mr K 17-02-2018 09:17
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Trump is very big on his 'no collusion' cry, even when not accused of it !
Me thinks he doth protest too much... Possibly in a panic as the net tightens.

passingbat 17-02-2018 10:02
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35937231)

And am I not right in saying that the account of Jesus and the run up to his crucifixion (and of course what happened after this) was committed to paper five generations after it happened?

.

The Dating of the Gospels

http://www.bc.edu/schools/stm/crossr...hegospels.html

1andrew1 17-02-2018 10:34
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35937246)
Trump is very big on his 'no collusion' cry, even when not accused of it !
Me thinks he doth protest too much... Possibly in a panic as the net tightens.
Doubtless we will soon see everyone here who said that there was no evidence of Russian manipulation in the US elections to help Trump now apologising for posting false information. ;)
And let's not forget, the report says that Russian involvement to get Trump in power may have been aided by "unwitting individuals" associated with him.
The investigation continues...

Mick 17-02-2018 11:47
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35937246)
Trump is very big on his 'no collusion' cry, even when not accused of it !
Me thinks he doth protest too much... Possibly in a panic as the net tightens.
He has been accused of it many times over by the Democrats and what he calls the Fake News Media, CNN etc, who actually got many stories on him wrong.

---------- Post added at 11:47 ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35937252)
Doubtless we will soon see everyone here who said that there was no evidence of Russian manipulation in the US elections to help Trump now apologising for posting false information. ;)
And let's not forget, the report says that Russian involvement to get Trump in power may have been aided by "unwitting individuals" associated with him.
The investigation continues...
It does actually say in the indictment report that there were Russian campaign groups holding Anti-Trump rallies too. A point you conveniently missed.

But the key information in the reports says none of the interference had any impact on the result! Another point you conveniently decided to miss.

Finally, Your obsession with apologies, is pathetic. Especially where there are none warranted, you never apologise when you’re frequently wrong on this forum, which is quite often, including the above posting, where you have selectively ignored to include relevant stuff, but you haven’t because it does not suit your agenda.

1andrew1 17-02-2018 12:53
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937265)
He has been accused of it many times over by the Democrats and what he calls the Fake News Media, CNN etc, who actually got many stories on him wrong.

---------- Post added at 11:47 ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 ----------



It does actually say in the indictment report that there were Russian campaign groups holding Anti-Trump rallies too. A point you conveniently missed.

But the key information in the reports says none of the interference had any impact on the result! Another point you conveniently decided to miss.

Finally, Your obsession with apologies, is pathetic. Especially where there are none warranted, you never apologise when you’re frequently wrong on this forum, which is quite often, including the above posting, where you have selectively ignored to include relevant stuff, but you haven’t because it does not suit your agenda.
My post above is totally accurate, and I'm not too proud to apologise when I've got things wrong either.

Mick 17-02-2018 13:18
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35937278)
My post above is totally accurate, and I'm not too proud to apologise when I've got things wrong either.
Your post is not accurate at all.

passingbat 17-02-2018 13:41
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35937252)
Doubtless we will soon see everyone here who said that there was no evidence of Russian manipulation in the US elections ..
I don't recall that being the controversy; it was about people insisting that Trump was involed. This evidence does not implicate Trump at all.

1andrew1 17-02-2018 15:01
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937282)
I don't recall that being the controversy; it was about people insisting that Trump was involed. This evidence does not implicate Trump at all.
Let's wait till the investigation is concluded before jumping one way or t'other.

passingbat 17-02-2018 15:29
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35937293)
Let's wait till the investigation is concluded before jumping one way or t'other.

Exaxtly what I have been doing and will contine to do. Is that what you have been doing?

1andrew1 17-02-2018 15:38
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937300)
Exaxtly what I have been doing and will continue to do. Is that what you have been doing?
Indeed.

passingbat 17-02-2018 16:27
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35937302)
Indeed.

So, never posted that Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians?

Damien 17-02-2018 16:40
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937265)
It does actually say in the indictment report that there were Russian campaign groups holding Anti-Trump rallies too. A point you conveniently missed.
.
These were after the election though wasn’t it?

As I’ve said before Russia’s goal isn’t to promote a Trump agenda but to cause chaos. They’ll back the must disruptive, anti-NATO, anti-western agenda they can. They want us divided between nations and within those nations. Hence their support for Le Pen too.

Anyone who thinks Russia is an ally to them is a fool.

1andrew1 17-02-2018 19:07
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937319)
So, never posted that Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians?
No.

---------- Post added at 19:07 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35937324)
These were after the election though wasn’t it?

As I’ve said before Russia’s goal isn’t to promote a Trump agenda but to cause chaos. They’ll back the must disruptive, anti-NATO, anti-western agenda they can. They want us divided between nations and within those nations. Hence their support for Le Pen too.

Anyone who thinks Russia is an ally to them is a fool.
Indeed, they were after the election. That statement was well intended I'm sure but misinformed and incorrect.

It's impossible to say how successful the Russians were at influencing the election outcome. I thought this part interesting:
Quote:
They also used social media, investigators say, to rally support for Green Party candidate Jill Stein in the general election, including an Instagram account that told black liberal activists to "choose peace and vote for Jill Stein" and that it wasn't "a wasted vote".
In several key Mid-western states, the number of Stein votes was greater than Mr Trump's margin of victory over Mrs Clinton.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43093260

Mick 17-02-2018 21:21
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35937346)
No.
Don’t tell bare face lies. You have certainly implied his guilt many times over. You have a selective memory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Indeed, they were after the election. That statement was well intended I'm sure but misinformed and incorrect.
No it wasn’t. I didn’t include time specifics in the sentence, so what was said is accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
It's impossible to say how successful the Russians were at influencing the election outcome. I thought this part interesting:
The DoJ said yesterday that none of the indictments announced yesterday, played any role in altering the Election result. They know a lot more than you, I would say.

1andrew1 17-02-2018 21:44
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937381)
Don’t tell bare face lies. You have certainly implied his guilt many times over. You have a selective memory.
I have never posted that Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians. It may be a strategy to deter criticism of Trump on the forum, but it's disappointing that you chose to label me a liar.

Mick 17-02-2018 21:50
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35937392)
I have never posted that Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians. It may be a strategy to deter criticism of Trump on the forum, but it's disappointing that you chose to label me a liar.
I never said you had, I said you have implied his guilt which you have, you do know what implied means, yeah ? :rolleyes:

Mr K 17-02-2018 21:56
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937381)
Don’t tell bare face lies..
Thank you might have been 'implying' Andrew was a liar there !

1andrew1 17-02-2018 22:19
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937393)
I never said you had, I said you have implied his guilt which you have, you do know what implied means, yeah ? :rolleyes:
To the question "So, never posted that Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians?"
I correctly replied "No"
To which you responded "Don’t tell bare face lies."

You may not have intended it to come across as calling me a liar, but you have. I guess it's a badge of honour one up from the "Wrong again" list which
Mr K and Hugh are on. ;)

Mick 17-02-2018 22:27
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35937399)
To the question "So, never posted that Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians?"
I correctly replied "No"
To which you responded "Don’t tell bare face lies."

You may not have intended it to come across as calling me a liar, but you have. I guess it's a badge of honour one up from the "Wrong again" list which
Mr K and Hugh are on. ;)
I responded, but you’ve taken what I said out of context...

So no denial that you have implied Trump’s guilt previously in all the Trump threads?

1andrew1 17-02-2018 22:45
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937401)
I responded, but you’ve taken what I said out of context...

So no denial that you have implied Trump’s guilt previously in all the Trump threads?
Nothing was taken out of context as your "Don’t tell bare face lies" post was in response to my "No" post which you quoted.

---------- Post added at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was at 22:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35937319)
So, never posted that Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35937346)
No
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35937381)
Don’t tell bare face lies. You have certainly implied his guilt many times over. You have a selective memory.


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