Re: Brexit discussion
 

There have been so much anti-EU propaganda that the EU have a website set-up to debunk years of myths:

https://www.economist.com/blogs/grap...daily-chart-15

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/10/13.png

Here's the site:

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/...ths-a-z-index/

Makes interesting reading ..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I would campaign to vote to leave should they do it. I am not going to vote leave based on a hypothetical scenario you've come up with.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Virtually everything's hypothetical right now - it's just which type of hypothetical is the most risky. There's nothing about the EU which shows they're willing to compromise, change direction or anything else. They can't even allow themselves to allow a major European ally to exit their pipe dream without making a stark point to us and other nations about how painful they will make it and trying to undermine the City of London for example. We know this is true and yet you still prefer to trust them and risk being drawn into something we'll never get out of no matter how we vote. At last at a general election where we can vote for change. Since when did the EU accept a vote for significant change on any of their core principles? I'm sorry, I can accept that life outside the EU won't be a bed or roses and does raise concerns but I find the attitude that a bunch of singleminded Eurocrats acting largely at the behest of Germany can be trusted with this nation's interests more than our own parliament bizarre.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You guys do understand that Germany has 8.4% of the voting weight in the European Council right? This is the same as France, Italy and the UK and just above Spain and Poland. If anything, Germany is under represented due to its population size.

Check out the Treaty of Nice to see how much influence Germany has - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting...2014.2F2017.29

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Given they got most of their other forecasts wrong, I would say is a given, oh and that big fat sum they were given by the EU, is another?

You cannot be seriously expecting me to believe something written from people paid from the very people we are trying to leave, surely?

I am pretty sure you mean David Cameron, he definitely mentioned it and I am deliberately including a link to the mirror here, as you know, hardly Tory fans...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ld-war-7928607

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Germany has proven rather reluctant to exert too much influence.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It does beg the question why there haven't been full studies or peer reviewed papers having a pro-Brexit standpoint. I would have thought the combined cash of Tim Martin (worth around £200m) Lord Bamford (£3.1b!) and Jacob Rees-Mogg (£45m) would have paid nicely for a robust pro-Brexit paper somewhere

(I stand to be corrected if there's anything more substantial than a press release out there)

In the meantime, I will repost this link - https://benefitcostanalysis.org/site...1%20Brexit.pdf which shows the breadth of different sources all telling a similar story. Economics is in inexact science and I don't think anyone would disagree but if almost all reports lean in the same direction, it does seem like there's a trend towards a prediction of a negative impact.

Here's a summary on slide 10;

After that, we're just arguing about how big really.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The problem is that most studies are based on a proven model, i.e. what has happened elsewhere or previously in the same or similar situation.

There is no model to base a prediction on. It's never happened before anywhere.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You are absolutely right, estimates have to be made on the relative costs and I think that is shown by the fairly wide spread of predictions. Ther are some that are known, for example MFN rates under the WTO for imports in to the EU that will have a big influence on our exports. Or the relative costs of importing goods from non-EU states under WTO rules that may need to be extended to EU imports.

You could argue however that the lack of precedent does illustrate what a leap in to the unknown this exercise really is.

Textbooks and Ph.D. theses will be written about these years in the future. We are living through history here.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The OECD has received more money from the UK than from the EC. The UK is a primary tier funder.

You have, on this very thread, said that you will 'never' regret your vote to leave the EU so it seems reasonable to assume that you will reject any evidence with the potential to cause regret whether it's the OECD, one of the dozens of studies on this, or the UK's own impact studies if the government ever release them.

Probably easier and faster to say 'It's BS because I don't agree with it.'.

I suspect you Googled Brexit and World War 3.

He didn't say anything about World War 3. The first mention of it was from Boris Johnson. Peace and stability on our continent isn't assured - Russia are making a PITA of themselves in the east.

FWIW it was a stupid, fear-mongering comment from Cameron that was a waste of oxygen, but it's inaccurate to suggest anyone other than Johnson first announced that he meant leaving the EU would trigger World War 3.

---------- Post added at 11:10 ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 ----------

So much for them bullying us and wanting to make it as hard as possible for us to leave, which you seemed enthusiastic to agree with, oh, yesterday.

According to people who actually know about EU law the concessions David Cameron won were actually about as far as the EU could go. But, hey, various extremely Euro-sceptic politicians and media said otherwise. Experts, pfft.

The paranoia is interesting though, fearing that the UK's government would cede powers to the EU. If that happened that would be what's known as Parliamentary democracy in action. It would also likely be direct democracy in action as, as has been mentioned many times and steadfastly ignored, it would trigger a referendum.

People speak disdainfully of safe spaces and snowflakes. Safe spaces seem to come in all sorts of forms, one of which being ignoring everything you don't agree with, and snowflakery in a form of being unable to handle the concept that you may be wrong about things.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yeah their 8% seems to buy them a great deal more influence than any other member state. Just ask the Greeks. Care to explain that? They have to economic might to influence all other members and that's exactly what they do.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Because Greece were asking for a bailout and Germany have the ability to stop it along with France and other Eurozone nations.

In the wider EU Germany do not have any magical powers to impose their will on everyone. France and the UK can also throw their weight around too. What I would say about Germany is they're more active in the EU than we are. How many European policies have been imposed by Germany?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Greece is but one example and we can all see what price the German's have made the Greeks pay can't we. The migration crisis was/is another. It was a unilateral decision taken by Merkel without reference to any other nation and the costs/effects have been felt across Europe.

Are you seriously suggesting that Merkel isn't calling virtually all the shots and using her considerable influence combined with Germany's economic muscle to determine events? Germany is at the centre of everything the EU does in one way or another and I can't honestly believe you think that's not the case.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think Germany are very influential in part because of their size and in part because they're willing to get get involved, a lot of EU nations have full dedicated departments relating to Europe, but I don't see them as 'calling virtually all the shots'. As I said it's easier to member states to stop things than enforce things. Germany, France and the UK are (or in our case can be) the biggest influences on the process and I think it's always been a mistake for us not to be more aggressive in using that influence.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm not arguing about the reasons why, merely the fact that Germany dominates the EU. Do you seriously think that any significant change in EU policy would get through without Germany's agreement? Look at how Merkel handled the Ukraine, Turkey etc. It was her effectively running EU policy and she'll have whatever bilateral (or other) talks/negotiations are required in order to get her way.

Thatcher was the last UK politician who took it to Europe and I'd agree that we ought to have done a lot more of that but we didn't and we can't now. The proof of the UK's 'influence' was Cameron's utter humiliation at the hands of Merkel prior to the referendum that's undeniable.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No, but then any significant change in EU policy wouldn't get through without our agreement either.

I think they made a mistake not giving Cameron more but it would have been more realistic had we spent years cultivating better relationships, promoting various policies, making a concessions in one thing in return for something else and so. Diplomacy. Instead we tended to parachute in, make a bunch of demands, get nowhere then sulk away for a few years before parachuting in again, making demands, and sulking away.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There are certain things we can veto and others we can't and the other members can all too often get their way when the UK happens to differ. That's fine for them but not for us when we don't want to be part of the Euro for example.

The history of our membership is irrelevant now - we are where we are. Yes the EEC could have been a wonderful thing but somehow it morphed into the EU and evidently the UK didn't/couldn't prevent that. The EU will not budge on its core ambitions and we can't veto or argue any of that reality away. That's why we must get out and stay out to better serve the UK's own interests.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don't know how you can instill such forecasts and refer to them as evidence, we have not left the EU yet, so there is no evidence of what might or might not come to be, these forecasts, which is what they just are, which have the potential to be wrong, like they have so in the past, they are essentially just defeatists with their wild, fear mongering theories.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yeah, what happened to all those pre-referendum forecasts from all those expert economists etc. This is all just speculation and it's very easy to come up with an anti-Brexit explanation for just about anything. Large swathes of the media have been doing that since day one. Everything bad is down to Brexit, anything good is in spite of Brexit and won't last. It's pathetic.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The OECD has a good track record on their Brexit forecasts.

OECD in Brexit warning U-turn as it revises growth forecast for UK

The OECD, the IMF, the Treasury, Osborne. How the experts got it wrong on the aftermath of a Leave vote.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Copied and pasted from Wikipedia, here's what we (or any nation) can veto;

membership of the Union (opening of accession negotiations, association, serious violations of the Union's values, etc.); change the status of an overseas country or territory (OCT) to an outermost region (OMR) or vice versa.

taxation;

the finances of the Union (own resources, the multiannual financial framework);

harmonisation in the field of social security and social protection;
certain provisions in the field of justice and home affairs (the European prosecutor, family law, operational police cooperation, etc.);

the flexibility clause (352 TFEU) allowing the Union to act to achieve one of its objectives in the absence of a specific legal basis in the treaties;

the common foreign and security policy, with the exception of certain clearly defined cases;

the common security and defence policy, with the exception of the establishment of permanent structured cooperation;
citizenship (the granting of new rights to European citizens, anti-discrimination measures);

certain institutional issues (the electoral system and composition of the Parliament, certain appointments, the composition of the Committee of the Regions and the European Economic and Social Committee, the seats of the institutions, the language regime, the revision of the treaties, including the bridging clauses, etc.).

Otherwise, qualified majority voting applies which needs at least 16 countries AND 65% of the population to say yes. Germany has 16.5% of the population and 8.4% of the influence.

The UK did sign the Maastricht Treaty by the way. I am sure many people here voted for the Conservative party in 1992 and therefore voted for the party that has instrumental in the transformation of the EEC to EU. John Major was PM if I remember rightly. Nearly lost his majority because of it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well aware of the Masstricht treaty and I've made the point that the situation we find ourselves in was arrived at with the help of certain of our own leaders. Neither side of the political divide has had the monopoly on mistakes and/or misleading the electorate when it comes to the EEC and EU.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...warns-iceland/

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1024714.html

That's the reality.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Which brings me to the point at the minute that I have been saying. Germany mainly has influance over the EU among a few others.

The UK is now leaving the EU and you are telling me that Germany or france for that matter have not had any input on how the other nations deal with the UK. They sit back and wait for the likes of Germany to tell them what to do.

If that isn't influance then what is? Who actually wants the "cake and eat it?" The other countries are scared they want to see how it all plays out with the UK before they attempt anything.

Wasn't the UK exempt from payments to countries like Greece put was told to pay up anyway?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The level of paranoia amongst Brexiters about 'johnny foreigner' is comical. Our interests are mutual. Together as countries, we are (were) stronger. Alone, as we're starting to find out, we have little negotiating power.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That's a laugh. The EU don't negotiate, they dictate as per Juncker's EU ambitions. Thank goodness we're leaving.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yeah and it's not like there's any increasing racism and right wing extremism evident in Germany, Austria, France, Hungary, Greece, Holland, Poland, etc. etc. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There is also increasing right-wing extremism in America. We've seen it in Norway and the UK to lesser extents. There seems to be a far-right resurgence everywhere which I would put down to the aftermath of the 2008 crisis, a feeling of insecurity over increasing globalisation and in some cases cultural insecurity. I also think people who were always Nazish feel more confident expressing it. The internet has allowed these people to organise better and so on.

The EU feeds into the globalisation thing but I don't think the EU is the main driver, or even a large driver, of this far-right surge.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It doesn't matter what the main drivers are, the fact is that the EU is moving far more to the right mainly driven by migration issues so let's not buy into all the usual lefty guff that Jonny Foreigner haters only live in the UK.

And back in the world of trade deals:

https://order-order.com/2017/10/19/s...t-trade-plans/

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I shudder to think what the OECD report would have looked like if the UK hadn't bunged them all that money then. ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

As with the Germany case nations are starting to get ready for whenever we move to trade talks. I'm not sure it tells us much other than the EU have the strange idea of being prepared. Something which we should have been before issuing article 50.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Good thought piece from Laura Kuenssberg on the fundamental issue that the UK faces with its Brexit position.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41674721

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------

If all you've got to clutch at is straws then that's what I would be doing in Guido Fawkes's position. Every country in the world which trades with us should be undertaking these types of preparations.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Ahh, here's Andrew to never fail with his usual 'clutching' at straws, line.

Nobody has. Except for that OECD or ANVCJSJ or AJAJDSJ or DJSJAJ report. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Exactly. Rocket science it ain't. Who gets the best deal? The local corner shop or Tesco?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So in the last couple of pages, 'The EU don't negotiate, they dictate as per Juncker's EU ambitions' and Germany tells all other countries what to do. Which is it? Who is your enemy here - the EU or Germany? Probably important to know this when negotiating exit and trade deals...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Liam Halligan's piece

IMHO a much more balanced view.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

While it's true that the reciprocal WTO tariffs fr the EU are low, that article ignores the range. Dairy tariffs are 45.3%, animals are 20.4%, cereals 19% and vegetables over 10%. This has huge implications for the costs of food in this country and our farming industry, especially in Northern Ireland.

Source of tariff info BTW - https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/bo..._e.pdf#page=77

UK trade would not be stopped under WTO but some sectors of industry in the UK will be severely impacted

Re: Brexit discussion
 

3% on final items being sold to the public is not a big deal. 3% on components, bulk imports/exports, materials etc is a much bigger deal.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But how does a balanced view fit into project fear part 2?

Is 3% a much bigger deal than a 20% currency fluctuation?

... and the latest from Merkel is:

http://www.politico.eu/article/merke...e8f6-189986277

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Not really sure an article in The Sun saying it's all fine is balanced.

I believe the 3% applies to everything so cross-border manufacturing will take a hit. If car companies face a 3% overhead, twice, for parts moving back and forth as the price for manufacturing in the UK then will they eat that cost?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Nothing balanced about The Sun although the same sentiments you can apply to quite a few other newspapers as well IMO.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Not sure anyone's saying it's all fine but I think we've had plenty of doom and gloom since last June and that's just as unbalanced. The negativity has been incessant and largely based on very little.

They'll deal with the cost in the same way they've dealt with far larger costs as a result of currency fluctuations.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Except this wasn't a Sun editorial but by a respected economics commentater with a business track record:

Liam Halligan wiki

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You forgot to add that he is an advocate of a Hard Brexit and has a book on this. Hardly a "much more balanced view" ..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's the non-tariff concerns that are the main issue with the EU. For supply chains, it's the delay in transport. In services which account for 80% of our exports, it's the need for those services to be regulated by the EU which Theresa May has said no to hence companies like Goldman Sachs setting up in Frankfurt and Esayjet in Spain.

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

Exactly. It would be more accurate for the OP to describe the poster as someone's views who coincide with his own.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Wow, has you internet stopped working?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes, Mr Osem's interweb is broken and is stuck on the 'order-order' website....

Very irritating for him I should think ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

While we are discussing Guido Fakes and the Order Order website, this article on previous OECD predictions was posted recently - https://order-order.com/2017/10/17/a...ous-forecasts/ on this site.

Taking this article apart, Zelo Street posted this - http://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2017...ar-busted.html . It appears there has been some very selective quoting of OECD figures.

*Disclaimer* I don't like Zelo Streets sneering attitude one bit. It is at best childish and unhelpful. However, the facts an relevant links are there once you get over this

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Mmm yeah I've not read this thread since my previous post but will be leaving it be.

Substitute 'tweeting' for 'posting'

Re: Brexit discussion
 

EU's head pains just keep on getting bigger...

Czech election latest: Europe’s "Donald Trump" WINS election in nightmare for EU

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-Babis-anti-EU

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Thought you didn't read the tabloids Mick ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes but it's all OK in Eurolalaland, we really shouldn't be wanting to get out of such a wonderful club which is in no way starting to unravel. :rolleyes:

The Eurocrats are going to learn that the people of many countries aren't at all happy with their version of what the EU ought to be.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

U.S.E = The United States of Europe.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/10/18.png

I have no words, just..... :sick:

---------- Post added at 12:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:18 ----------

I don't, it's a source I am linking to. Nice deflection strategy. ;)

What's wrong ? Cat stopping you typing ?

The Anti-EU sentiment is growing and so it should with those old cretins running it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes it is but it's far easier to deny all of that, whine on about little Englanders, put it all down to tabloid fakery etc etc.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

They are all out to get us, that's for sure..... A psychiatrist would have a field day on this thread !

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Nice to be insulted again Mr K as although my brain works slowly nowadays there is still some saneness there in that empty brain of mine.;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think it takes a clever person than me to link to and post from a source without at the same time reading it! ;)
That being said, the Czech result shows the popularist movement hasn't stalled but then again we don't have the anti-EU leaders in France and the Netherlands that the original Project Fear promised us.

---------- Post added at 12:44 ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 ----------

Where does that logo come from? Did someone have a Saturday night in with Paintshop or something? :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The voice of employers is getting louder as understandably, they're worried about the impact the absence a no-transition deal will have on UK employment. An issue many of us on here can relate to but obviously of less importance to the elite like BoJo and Liam Fox.
http://news.sky.com/story/major-busi...-risk-11093313

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's from another forum called NationStates, where people make up countries...

https://www.nationstates.net/page=faq

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'd like someone to explain why there needs to be more EU not less or even the status quo. Why can't these people stop thinking about expansion and ever closer union and get on with making sure the current club works more fairly? I reckon if they'd done that at some point we wouldn't be where we are and right wing extremism wouldn't be on the increase despite what some people want to accept. :shrug:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You have evidence of that, or are you just relying on what the Papers tell you?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well they have kept telling us that they won't discuss trade or anything related to it until we agree to pay up haven't they? They also refused May's offer to sort out the status of EU citizens as a priority or didn't they? :shrug:

Let's turn this all around and someone tell us all what the EU has offered the UK in order to facilitate things? Where they've been flexible and reasonable? If the answer is 'well they don't have to because we decided to leave them' then that still amounts to them not being willing to compromise (regardless of the reason) and if this is going to be resolved for the best for both sides that's what's going to be required. The UK can't be blamed entirely for the lack of progress when one side has been unwilling to discuss certain key elements of the process.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

How do you define "more fairly"? Would you like the UK to pay in as much per person as Germany does, for example?
I think right-ring extremism is not an EU thing, it's related to globalisation, automation, income inequality and the ability to spread fake news and cultivate communities of interest that the internet provides.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

The guy might have a point as he does know a thing or two about economics.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Another fear project & BS story from the Remoaner rag.

He has no valid point. Clearly knows nothing of Brexit stuff, because it’s not taken place yet. Yawn.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Whether its a remain rag or a Brexit rag they both come out with bull excretia and untruths on a regular basis...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes: but let’s have it right Den, the guardian is a ‘Extra Remoaning Rag’.

You don’t polish turds, but the guardian seems to do it, with ease with these stories. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Where as your own favourite Express which you post links to, but claim not to read, is very even handed !

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Express is not my favourite, nor ever was. It was a source. You don’t have to like a source to use it as one FFS. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Cut your remoaner nonsense Mr K! People can post links to articles without ever reading the articles in question, and Brexit will be a success. The tea leaves told me so, just believe.
You've probably been taught by one of these anti-Brexit professors. The sooner the country's rid of these treacherous toads the better! :rolleyes:

A jolly fine job the old boy Chris is doing to sort the enemy within out. ;)
http://news.sky.com/story/professor-...ities-11096444

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Come on Mick for the moaning left remain Guardian and the red Daily Mirror in one corner in the other corner we have the rabid and fervent Daily Mail , The Express , The Sun and of course the Daily Telegraph but you know that anyway.:)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No, let's be clear, quoting a source like the Express or Mail automatically means you're a right wing, racist, xenophobic, loony who believes everything they print. Nothing they publish about Brexit, migration etc. is ever true and anyone who believes anything they print only does so because they're a closed minded, little Englander and it's what they want to hear. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well, that's a bit over the top but you said it ! It's frightening the number of people that believe and follow these rags.

The only papers I take much notice of are the Telegraph and the Guardian. They both have their own political slants, which you can take into account, but the stories are usually based on facts. Most of the rest of the British press think nothing of totally fabricating stories if it sells more papers or pleases the owners and gives readers what they want to hear.

FWIW the Telegraph have also covered the Bloomberg story, if you prefer that source.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...rt-industries/
(The Mail leads with a sex story, the Sun a Strictly story and the Mirror a chocoholic... British press, worst in the World....)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

My student status came in handy recently for a Times membership. It's worth reading, it presents enough of things to be accused of bias by both sides of this debate.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well the Daily Mail today has revealed that Universities are largely REMAIN supporting with large amounts of students and lecturers who are also remain supporters. Shocking! Must be tough to live in a country surrounded by such traitors :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes maybe 'traitors' or just more educated. Burn their books I say ! ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's another item in the list of the things the Mail hates about Britain.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We are heading back down a slippery slope in this thread, with language of ‘usual suspects’, nobody is a suspect.

I also do not think it is appropriate to show depictions of people hanging. Do not do this again, please. The post in question has been deleted.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8020126.html
All going well isn't it ? Our wonder 'team' can't even agree with each other...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I see you and the rags you read don't know the difference between may and will.
I also note you seem to again appear to be asserting that leavers are uneducated.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well the Daily Mail is saying the Universities are Remain strongholds (which they are ).

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There are many in this country and others who are educated who have never been to university.
A university degree is not an indication of education especially if measured by the degree attained.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well I think a degree is an indication of education but I agree it's not the only measure of education, intelligence or skill.

My point was more at the hysterical paranoia the Mail is exhibiting by presenting the idea that Universities tend to have students, staff and insinuations which are more liberal and pro-Remain as some sort of shock scandal. They've even asked for examples of this bias.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I agree that there is a degree of paranoia in regard to those that have a university degree but it is not just the mail.
I used to do a highly skilled job where a degree student would have been useless as they didn't have the skills.
I had to take what they put on paper and make it a reality.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Daily Mail and Express fans may well disagree, but these aren't the traditional values that have put the Great into Great Britain.
I read Christopher Heaton-Harris's letter. It made no mention of why he wanted the information. Advising the reason would have encouraged a good response so I'm sceptical that he wanted it for an uncommissioned book.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Did he ever say that leavers are uneducated or did he link to a story in a paper saying that or doesn't that matter

Re: Brexit discussion
 

What part of appear don't you understand?
Someone may appear to do or adocate something without actually doing so.

Even this "uneducated " Brexit error realises this.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Are you suggesting that it is possible that if someone says, "Links posted from news sources are not necessarily my opinion. I don't have the time or the crayons to keep explaining this" they may be advocating the opinions expressed in those very links?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I would not be that inane or uneducated.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don't understand the word adocate for a start. I've posted links to articles I don't agree with just to stimulate debate.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

As we all do and acknowledged in post #488. It would be a dull world otherwise.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

https://twitter.com/pswidlicki/statu...71483679657985

So what does that mean? The two main concerns they have are continuation of regulatory rules and access to labour. Has the government told them this will remain in some respect?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The FT surmises that he believes there will be a transition deal.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

If Catalonia is successful in their desire for independence, surely they will also cease to be a member of the EU.

If they decide not to negotiate to join the EU, will this be viewed as a further crack in the concept of the whole thing?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Cracks are growing far and wide, as they should, EU is a totally corrupt and failed project.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well we've done rather well out of it. GDP growth exceeding that of France, Germany and the USA since we joined.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/10/27.png

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well it's obvious that cracks had been appearing before Brexit and is the real answer to those, more of the same? If the EU has actually committed to changing course on anything much could someone let us know because I can't see much evidence of it which begs the question 'how big do the cracks have to become before they do?'

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don’t think Catalonia has much to do with the EU. This division has been there for longer than the EU has been in existence.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The Catalonia problem certainly has been around much longer but everything that happens within the EU has something to do with it and the way in which they handle it and any repercussions, as with Brexit, will say a lot about them. Good or bad only time will tell.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm not sure that the existing EU member states would allow Catalonia to join as it could encourage break-away regions in other countries.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You make a good point Andrew.