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-   -   [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030 (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33705179)

pip08456 12-09-2017 19:42
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Don't forget the Government will know every step of your journey.

heero_yuy 12-09-2017 19:46
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35916197)
Don't forget the Government will know every step of your journey.
But if you've done nothing wrong how could you possibly object. Just like the cameras in your bathroom and bedroom. Welcome to the surveillance future.

Osem 12-09-2017 20:20
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35916197)
Don't forget the Government will know every step of your journey.
And maybe things will 'progress' so that they'll even be able to decide where you wind up. I can see it now, your 'auto' car will turn up at your door but instead of going off to work it takes you straight down to the police station to answer questions about your political affiliations... :erm:

pip08456 12-09-2017 20:24
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35916205)
And maybe things will 'progress' so that they'll even be able to decide where you wind up. I can see it now, your 'auto' car will turn up at your door but instead of going off to work it takes you straight down to the police station to answer questions about your political affiliations... :erm:
That is always a possibility.

Osem 12-09-2017 20:40
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35916207)
That is always a possibility.
Yes it is. We're heading towards a society in which we can be controlled very easily because all the things we need to be independent will be able to be controlled by our masters at the press of a button. Money, transportation, communication etc., there'll be nowhere to hide. How much better for the environment (i.e. easier for our glorious leaders) it would be if we could be treated almost like farm animals and allowed to go anywhere and do anything we want as long as our 'keepers' agree... :erm:

Damien 12-09-2017 21:13
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
A lot of this isn't a big leap from what we have now. The government licences you to drive and can revoke that licence and you are largely trackable via system which read licences plates.

There is always a tension between advancements in technology and the governments ability to use it to limit your own freedom. The answer isn't to limit the technology but have democratic processes to limit the government's ability to interfere. The Stasi were quite capable of knowing almost anything about anyone without the help of the internet or control of payment systems.

The problem is the lack of public concern. There was little resistance to the government passing a form of the snoopers charter. The government got it though easily. Even a lot of people who are concerned have it low down on their list of priorities. It's not much of a vote loser or winner really.

pip08456 12-09-2017 21:14
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35916209)
Yes it is. We're heading towards a society in which we can be controlled very easily because all the things we need to be independent will be able to be controlled by our masters at the press of a button. Money, transportation, communication etc., there'll be nowhere to hide. How much better for the environment (i.e. easier for our glorious leaders) it would be if we could be treated almost like farm animals and allowed to go anywhere and do anything we want as long as our 'keepers' agree... :erm:
Welcome to the future!

Damien 12-09-2017 21:18
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35916191)
No problem, your 'auto' car will just take you there and drop you off then head off to do whatever else it needs to do to save the planet. Of course you won't be able to leave your picnic or anything else in the car for later, you'll have to carry it all with you until it's time to summon the next 'auto' car to pick you up and take you home. Sounds wonderful doesn't it... :rolleyes:
Well it does. There are so many exciting things about self-driving technology from the ability to reduce the cost of transport, freeing up land, reducing pollution and making it much safer. If you only focus on the worst elements then it is going to be awful but the benefits will easily outweigh the negatives.

Yes things will not be the same. People will adjust. Humans have done pretty well so far.

TheDaddy 17-09-2017 08:22
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35916164)
A bit beyond moving to electric, which I think will happen sooner than 2040, but I believe car ownership itself won't be around for long. Instead people will call self-driving cars and be assigned one from a fleet owned by Google/Apple/Uber etc which will complete their journey then zip off somewhere else. With these cars being active more than most cars are now the cost per trip could be far less than what we effectively pay now for ownership, fuel, maintenance and insurance.

The benefits are massive: Less space will be required for parking as we would have fewer cars and those not active could go to a remote place rather than near town centers etc.

It's much safer as these cars could go faster, react quicker and make fewer mistakes than humans do plus they could communicate with each other. Imagine all these cars being networked and able to make adjustments to their speed/mapping based on the load of other cars up ahead.

It would solve this problem of charging as you no longer worry about parking or re-fueling cars.

I think before too long it will seem crazy that humans spent large amounts of money to own cars which spent most of their time parked and were driven by humans with their slow reaction times and who used signals to communicate to each other about their intentions.
The big fly in the ointment of your vision is legal accountability, the likes of uber won't pay out when their cars kill and injure people, that's why they'll need a bum on a seat for the foreseeable future and there not as safe as people make out, when a driver less car was responsible for someone's death the CEO justified it as a tragedy but the car had done 250k miles without incident and the assembled press nodded at how impressive a feat that was without seemingly considering how many people they'd killed in their quarter of a million miles motoring.

Damien 17-09-2017 09:17
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35916803)
The big fly in the ointment of your vision is legal accountability, the likes of uber won't pay out when their cars kill and injure people, that's why they'll need a bum on a seat for the foreseeable future and there not as safe as people make out, when a driver less car was responsible for someone's death the CEO justified it as a tragedy but the car had done 250k miles without incident and the assembled press nodded at how impressive a feat that was without seemingly considering how many people they'd killed in their quarter of a million miles motoring.
The legal framework around driverless cars will come as real driverless cars arrive and the technology involves. I also don't think the safety improvements are invalided by the occasionally accident as the technology develops, besides the argument is that they're much safer not 100% safe. Computers can talk to each other and make decisions instantly. We communicate using lights and have slow reaction times.

Chris 17-09-2017 09:33
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
The safety record of the early decades of civil aviation springs to mind here. There were some horrific incidents involving large loss of life, on well known western airlines, at US and European airports. It was enough of a talking point to secure a movie franchise in the 1970s (Airport, and then a couple of spoofs, Airplane!). But the benefits and overall safety of the civil jet airliner far outweighed the risks, so they have continued, and the disasters have informed safety improvements so that these days*, the only places you really hear of plane crashes are with the poorly maintained fleets of developing countries.

*Human agency notwithstanding

Mr K 17-09-2017 09:54
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35916226)
.

Yes things will not be the same. People will adjust. Humans have done pretty well so far.
Nothing will change except for more combustion engine cars. People and governments are predictable.

papa smurf 17-09-2017 10:31
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35916808)
The safety record of the early decades of civil aviation springs to mind here. There were some horrific incidents involving large loss of life, on well known western airlines, at US and European airports. It was enough of a talking point to secure a movie franchise in the 1970s (Airport, and then a couple of spoofs, Airplane!). But the benefits and overall safety of the civil jet airliner far outweighed the risks, so they have continued, and the disasters have informed safety improvements so that these days*, the only places you really hear of plane crashes are with the poorly maintained fleets of developing countries.

*Human agency notwithstanding
just a few decades of large loss of life to look forward to then while the boffins iron out the lethal side of driverless killer cars ;)

Osem 17-09-2017 13:39
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35916226)
Well it does. There are so many exciting things about self-driving technology from the ability to reduce the cost of transport, freeing up land, reducing pollution and making it much safer. If you only focus on the worst elements then it is going to be awful but the benefits will easily outweigh the negatives.

Yes things will not be the same. People will adjust. Humans have done pretty well so far.
You'll be having to more a lot more adjusting than me I reckon. We'll see how wonderful it feels when everywhere you go you have to wait for transport for each leg of the journey and carry all the stuff you need with you because the car's going to be needed elsewhere. I can live without that sort of change for the better thanks. ;)

Damien 17-09-2017 14:41
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35916838)
You'll be having to more a lot more adjusting than me I reckon. We'll see how wonderful it feels when everywhere you go you have to wait for transport for each leg of the journey and carry all the stuff you need with you because the car's going to be needed elsewhere. I can live without that sort of change for the better thanks. ;)
People will travel differently. You could also have cars that wait around for you if you request such a service, presumably less so in urban areas. I think the benefits outweigh that particular inconvenience.

Paul 17-09-2017 14:46
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
No one knows how it will actually pan out, we will see.
Its all just speculation & guesswork atm, with a large dollop of hope that technology will improve.

Damien 17-09-2017 14:55
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35916848)
No one knows how it will actually pan out, we will see.
Its all just speculation & guesswork atm, with a large dollop of hope that technology will improve.
I would say the realistic probability that the technology will improve. Considering the progress made so far, the investment into it and the way these things go. As far as self-driving is concerned there aren't any major technology leaps to be made, it's more about implementation at this point.

Mr K 17-09-2017 15:01
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35916845)
People will travel differently. You could also have cars that wait around for you if you request such a service, presumably less so in urban areas. I think the benefits outweigh that particular inconvenience.
Yes that's what my 1975 Beano said about 2017, we should all be in hover cars by now too. Ben Elton's 'Gridlock' is a much better prediction.

heero_yuy 17-09-2017 15:41
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35916852)
Yes that's what my 1975 Beano said about 2017, we should all be in hover cars by now too. Ben Elton's 'Gridlock' is a much better prediction.
Three dimensional parallel parking?:D

Paul 17-09-2017 18:18
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35916852)
Yes that's what my 1975 Beano said about 2017
I've had a look through my 1975 annual and I could not see this :)

Ken W 17-09-2017 21:16
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35916893)
I've had a look through my 1975 annual and I could not see this :)




It is in the 1975 Dandy annual :-)

Kursk 18-09-2017 01:03
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35916893)
I've had a look through my 1975 annual and I could not see this :)
Check your 1975 Bunty annual then :D

tweetiepooh 18-09-2017 12:56
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
I can see driverless, electric cars in the large population centres but isn't there already public transport for that. So maybe in the suburbs, less populated areas, smaller cities/towns or if carrying something or other reasons to want a private conveyance. Maybe also between sites, regular journeys especially if journey does take in town/city centres.

But it will be those other journeys, those less regular, unplanned events away from populations. Maybe taking your small boat to a river/coast for a day sail then needing a secure store while you are out on the water. Going out on a mystery tour. Just going out and seeing what you can find, stopping for undetermined amount of time. Covering eventualities, what about if you day destination doesn't have mobile coverage, what if you go out to the mountains and the weather closes in (please wait 2 hours while we route a car to you...sorry roads are now impassible). You live on a farm, your wife's pregnant and something happens, now you need to get her to hospital, not ambulance quick but still don't want to wait long time for some company to route something out to you. Here's a real one for me, you go to archery, you have your bow and arrows with you. After the shoot you want to go to the pub, when you get there you don't want to take all your kit in with you. How do you work these into some car "share" scheme? And people won't want to pay the extra to have a car wait around for storage.

The real issues that need resolving mostly are around the large population centres, traffic levels, pollution, noise, parking/storage. Electric/driverless/share could work well in these places. You can't try to force the same model onto all situations. But most politicians live and work in large population centres so we will end up with ...?

One final issue is for some the pleasure of driving.

Kursk 18-09-2017 15:20
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 35916954)
I can see driverless, electric cars in the large population centres but isn't there already public transport for that. So maybe in the suburbs, less populated areas, smaller cities/towns or if carrying something or other reasons to want a private conveyance. Maybe also between sites, regular journeys especially if journey does take in town/city centres.

But it will be those other journeys, those less regular, unplanned events away from populations. Maybe taking your small boat to a river/coast for a day sail then needing a secure store while you are out on the water. Going out on a mystery tour. Just going out and seeing what you can find, stopping for undetermined amount of time. Covering eventualities, what about if you day destination doesn't have mobile coverage, what if you go out to the mountains and the weather closes in (please wait 2 hours while we route a car to you...sorry roads are now impassible). You live on a farm, your wife's pregnant and something happens, now you need to get her to hospital, not ambulance quick but still don't want to wait long time for some company to route something out to you. Here's a real one for me, you go to archery, you have your bow and arrows with you. After the shoot you want to go to the pub, when you get there you don't want to take all your kit in with you. How do you work these into some car "share" scheme? And people won't want to pay the extra to have a car wait around for storage.

The real issues that need resolving mostly are around the large population centres, traffic levels, pollution, noise, parking/storage. Electric/driverless/share could work well in these places. You can't try to force the same model onto all situations. But most politicians live and work in large population centres so we will end up with ...?

One final issue is for some the pleasure of driving.
I'd stay in if I were you. The World holds too many questions for which you have too few answers.

If you think about the things that concern you, I bet you could come up with alternatives to your usual routines but, fear not, when people have needs other people think of ways to fulfil them. It's been that way since man first used tools to hunt. ;)

Perhaps City dwellers will use the 'dial up' vehicle service and country folk will have their own EV? Oo arr, that's an idea?

Osem 18-09-2017 16:11
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 35916954)
I can see driverless, electric cars in the large population centres but isn't there already public transport for that. So maybe in the suburbs, less populated areas, smaller cities/towns or if carrying something or other reasons to want a private conveyance. Maybe also between sites, regular journeys especially if journey does take in town/city centres.

But it will be those other journeys, those less regular, unplanned events away from populations. Maybe taking your small boat to a river/coast for a day sail then needing a secure store while you are out on the water. Going out on a mystery tour. Just going out and seeing what you can find, stopping for undetermined amount of time. Covering eventualities, what about if you day destination doesn't have mobile coverage, what if you go out to the mountains and the weather closes in (please wait 2 hours while we route a car to you...sorry roads are now impassible). You live on a farm, your wife's pregnant and something happens, now you need to get her to hospital, not ambulance quick but still don't want to wait long time for some company to route something out to you. Here's a real one for me, you go to archery, you have your bow and arrows with you. After the shoot you want to go to the pub, when you get there you don't want to take all your kit in with you. How do you work these into some car "share" scheme? And people won't want to pay the extra to have a car wait around for storage.

The real issues that need resolving mostly are around the large population centres, traffic levels, pollution, noise, parking/storage. Electric/driverless/share could work well in these places. You can't try to force the same model onto all situations. But most politicians live and work in large population centres so we will end up with ...?

One final issue is for some the pleasure of driving.
... and you can bet that they and the great and the good won't be inconvenienced - they're far too important - but perhaps if they were going to be they'd think it all through a whole lot more.

Paul 18-09-2017 22:00
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken W (Post 35916923)
It is in the 1975 Dandy annual :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35916934)
Check your 1975 Bunty annual then :D
Ah... but he said Beano, so thats what I checked. ;)

Quote:
Yes that's what my 1975 Beano said about 2017

Kursk 18-09-2017 22:49
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35917023)
Ah... but he said Beano, so thats what I checked. ;)
Pah, Lord Snooty :p:

pip08456 18-09-2017 23:01
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35917023)
Ah... but he said Beano, so thats what I checked. ;)
Tell the truth Paul, you didn't want to admit having the Bunty 1975 Annual!:D:D:D

Julian 19-09-2017 00:51
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35917028)
Tell the truth Paul, you didn't want to admit having the Bunty 1975 Annual!:D:D:D
Doesn't everyone? :erm:

Kursk 19-09-2017 01:11
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian (Post 35917042)
Doesn't everyone? :erm:
I thought you were more of a June & Schoolfriend sort of chappie julie :)

TheDaddy 25-09-2017 08:59
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35916803)
The big fly in the ointment of your vision is legal accountability, the likes of uber won't pay out when their cars kill and injure people, that's why they'll need a bum on a seat for the foreseeable future and there not as safe as people make out, when a driver less car was responsible for someone's death the CEO justified it as a tragedy but the car had done 250k miles without incident and the assembled press nodded at how impressive a feat that was without seemingly considering how many people they'd killed in their quarter of a million miles motoring.
That bum might be on that seat for 20+ years

https://www.collisionrepairmag.com/n...-years-or-more

hume 13-10-2017 21:28
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35909382)
Advances in computing and electronic devices are very different, in that they don't have to do much physical work. Where physical work was involved, advances meant less physical work was required to achieve the same result, eg HDDs vs SSDs.

Propelling a vehicle for 100 miles with a family, coping with difficult terrain eg hills, difficult weather conditions eg snow, and possibly towing a caravan requires physical work, no matter what the propulsion system. There is absolutely no way around that. The amount of energy required to be transferred and stored in a battery is huge. The nearest thing would be a battery you could top up with pre-charged liquid. Not sure how safe that liquid would be to handle. It would be more "volatile" than petrol.

The energy in petrol was locked in millions of years ago. Having to "generate" that amount of energy each day and having to distribute it down power lines is pretty much a non-starter. Then you've got to replace current gas usage.
Generating methane from renewable energy would be a better solution to the problem. I realise it's not ideal as the process is inefficient and the renewable energy would be better spent running a turbine. But when you think, renewable energy can't be stored for a sufficient length of time. A methane based approach doesn't appear so far fetched. It also has the added bonus of creating an energy dense fuel we're already familiar with.

Osem 13-10-2017 21:45
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Whatever happened to LPG?

papa smurf 13-10-2017 22:46
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35920100)
Whatever happened to LPG?
they sell it close to me and it's cheap i tried to get my car converted to use it [3.3 ltr petrol] but could not get a reply from any company i contacted . as far as i know it's a few taxi's and all police cars that use it around here

Osem 14-10-2017 17:23
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Yes, it's still around but why didn't HMG do more to promote it in view of the petrol/diesel concerns? No need for new infrastructure etc.

Hom3r 15-10-2017 19:51
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
In the last 9 years the price of LPG has more than doubled near me!

Osem 16-10-2017 19:32
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35920269)
In the last 9 years the price of LPG has more than doubled near me!
IIRC it's still half the price of petrol around here but whatever fuel we use you can be sure that any price (or other) incentives HMG offers to get us all to buy into it won't last long. They have to recoup the lost fuel duty from somewhere and charging infrastructure is going to cost a fortune to install and maintain..

Damien 16-10-2017 21:15
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
The Government are just reacting to where the industry is going. They don't have enough power by themselves to go against the trend

Osem 17-10-2017 14:42
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35920386)
The Government are just reacting to where the industry is going. They don't have enough power by themselves to go against the trend
Nah. This is being driven first and foremost by Govt. environmental policy and having led us all up the garden path with regard to diesel, they're no doing the same thing with electric. If they could, the car companies would carry on churning out diesels equipped with cheat devices.

Damien 17-10-2017 15:14
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35920471)
Nah. This is being driven first and foremost by Govt. environmental policy and having led us all up the garden path with regard to diesel, they're no doing the same thing with electric. If they could, the car companies would carry on churning out diesels equipped with cheat devices.
Many companies already announced the move to electric years before the government introduced this 2040 goal. Volvo had even said they've got an end-date for their petrol engines before 2030. Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Peugeot and BMW amongst others are all at various points in this transition. It's why as I said at the start of the thread that the 2040 announcement is rather unambitious.

Not to say it's imminent. The vast majority of cars sold are still petrol and will be so for the next few years but it seems electric is only going to go in one direction as it makes up more and more of those sales. The question is when will we get to 50%....

richard s 17-10-2017 20:36
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Only hope the price of electric cars will be reasonable and that the battery tech will improve significantly.

Osem 17-10-2017 21:19
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35920476)
Many companies already announced the move to electric years before the government introduced this 2040 goal. Volvo had even said they've got an end-date for their petrol engines before 2030. Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Peugeot and BMW amongst others are all at various points in this transition. It's why as I said at the start of the thread that the 2040 announcement is rather unambitious.

Not to say it's imminent. The vast majority of cars sold are still petrol and will be so for the next few years but it seems electric is only going to go in one direction as it makes up more and more of those sales. The question is when will we get to 50%....
Being relatively young I'm sure 2040 seems like a lifetime away for you but it really isn't much time to get stuff done and it's no good praying that there'll be some timely revolution in technology which will obviate the need for hugely costly national charging infrastructure to be put in place to keep all our vehicles on the move. Who's going to pay for that do you think and what effect will that have on the real cost to us of electric vehicles? Right now the national grid almost creaks when people put their kettles during popular TV events how much worse will it be when we're all trying to charge our vehicles? A lot's going to have to be done to prevent this whole thing from turning out very costly indeed, both in terms of cash and our freedom of movement.

Chris 18-10-2017 14:17
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
At the moment I am seeing at least one fully electric vehicle pass me on the road every time I go out (most common is the Nissan Leaf). One of my friends just bought one as well. It’s happening, and apparently at an increasing pace.

papa smurf 18-10-2017 14:36
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35920667)
At the moment I am seeing at least one fully electric vehicle pass me on the road every time I go out (most common is the Nissan Leaf). One of my friends just bought one as well. It’s happening, and apparently at an increasing pace.
i saw a Tesla a few months back other than that all i see is traditional vehicles and a few hybrids .

Damien 18-10-2017 14:47
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
I see quite a few Teslas now but this is London.

Chris 18-10-2017 17:36
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
We had a Tesla owner stay with us last year. Loved having it on the driveway even if it was only for one night. :D

Someone local must own one as well, because I’ve seen one on the roads near here a couple of times lately.

They are very, very lovely machines, and capable of replacing a petro-fuelled car for just about anyone short of a hard working sales rep.

Pity I’ll never have the means to own one though!

Uncle Peter 18-10-2017 17:58
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35920691)
We had a Tesla owner stay with us last year. Loved having it on the driveway even if it was only for one night. :D

Someone local must own one as well, because I’ve seen one on the roads near here a couple of times lately.

They are very, very lovely machines, and capable of replacing a petro-fuelled car for just about anyone short of a hard working sales rep.

Pity I’ll never have the means to own one though!
The model S is very tasty indeed. We’ll start seeing even more of them (Teslas ) in the coming 18 months when the more accessible Model 3 hits the right hand drive markets.

papa smurf 18-10-2017 18:11
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35920691)
We had a Tesla owner stay with us last year. Loved having it on the driveway even if it was only for one night. :D

Someone local must own one as well, because I’ve seen one on the roads near here a couple of times lately.

They are very, very lovely machines, and capable of replacing a petro-fuelled car for just about anyone short of a hard working sales rep.

Pity I’ll never have the means to own one though!
oh yea wink wink poor guest house owner :Sprint:

denphone 18-10-2017 18:14
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35920697)
oh yea wink wink poor guest house owner :Sprint:
Don't worry as l am sure the CF mods will club together to buy him one.;)

Chris 18-10-2017 21:50
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Well as I am now retraining as a Baptist church minister I am neither going to secure a fat salary, nor win the lottery. So I guess I’d better find a house near my church so I’ll only ever have to worry about shoe leather. :D

1andrew1 18-10-2017 21:57
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Interesting to see Shell adding charging to some of its petrol stations.
Quote:
Royal Dutch Shell has launched a fast-charging service for electric vehicles at three Shell service stations near London and in northern England, the company said on Wednesday.
The service, which charges most electric vehicle batteries from zero to 80 per cent within half an hour, is the oil major’s first foray into fast-charging electric vehicles, whose use is set to grow with consumers’ demand for cleaner cars.
Shell will expand the service further in Britain and into the Netherlands and the Philippines, the company said.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a8006206.html

Chris 18-10-2017 22:43
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
The writing’s on the wall. They’re going to have to embrace it sooner or later, and try to make the best of it as well, by expanding their retail offering to maximise the opportunities presented by drivers potentially being on-site for longer. Even so, I think there’s no long-term future for the filling station as we presently conceive it. The charging time means future “filling” stations are mostly going to have to be close to destinations rather than strategic points en-route, with the exception of long-distance routes (ie motorways, where the additional infrastructure for coping with drivers waiting around actually already exists).

papa smurf 18-10-2017 22:46
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35920737)
Well as I am now retraining as a Baptist church minister I am neither going to secure a fat salary, nor win the lottery. So I guess I’d better find a house near my church so I’ll only ever have to worry about shoe leather. :D
don't you mean sandal leather ;)

Damien 18-10-2017 23:13
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35920746)
The writing’s on the wall. They’re going to have to embrace it sooner or later, and try to make the best of it as well, by expanding their retail offering to maximise the opportunities presented by drivers potentially being on-site for longer. Even so, I think there’s no long-term future for the filling station as we presently conceive it. The charging time means future “filling” stations are mostly going to have to be close to destinations rather than strategic points en-route, with the exception of long-distance routes (ie motorways, where the additional infrastructure for coping with drivers waiting around actually already exists).
Proper wireless charging exists as well although it's currently really inefficient but before too long we could see it at car parks and such.

pip08456 18-10-2017 23:47
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Shell are installing charging points in petrol stations.

Link

Brunel 19-10-2017 09:49
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Local LIDL have a free charging point, in the car park.

heero_yuy 19-10-2017 15:34
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
A BLAZING Tesla has sparked electric car safety fears after firefighters battled to extinguish the inferno.

The Model S was engulfed in flames after its 19-year-old driver crashed into a concrete barrier in Austria.

And fire crews struggled to put out the billowing flames caused by the lithium-ion batteries.

Toxic gases released by the burning power packs meant firefighters had to wear special breathing kit to tackle the blaze.

And while the driver made it out safely, it took five fire engines and 35 crew members to finally get the fire under control.

The terrifying video shows huge plumes of smoke erupting around the wrecked £50,000 plug-in car as the battery is cooled.
Source

And you thought a petrol tank was dangerous.

AbyssUnderground 19-10-2017 15:43
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Five fire engines and 35 crew were standing by. It did not take all of them to put it out (watch the video and see for yourself). Yet another over exaggeration by the media and non-EV lovers to discredit them.

Cars set on fire and burn every day. They're no different to EV's in any way, it just somehow becomes a big deal when it's an EV.

nashville 19-10-2017 16:21
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35920737)
Well as I am now retraining as a Baptist church minister I am neither going to secure a fat salary, nor win the lottery. So I guess I’d better find a house near my church so I’ll only ever have to worry about shoe leather. :D
Well said Chris ;)

Damien 19-10-2017 16:44
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35920691)
We had a Tesla owner stay with us last year. Loved having it on the driveway even if it was only for one night. :D
!
You have should 'borrowed' it. Offered to test it on the Scottish roads for them.

Chris 20-10-2017 15:34
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35920838)
Source

And you thought a petrol tank was dangerous.
It is. It contains something like 50 litres of volatile liquid whose vapour is explosive at a lower concentration than hydrogen (and a lot else). While they catch fire a lot more often than we might like to think, cars don't routinely explode because plenty of work has been done on keeping the fuel sealed away from sources of ignition even after an accident. However under the right conditions they can and do burn, sometimes with horrible results.

Two pumps attended this fire in Greater Manchester. GMFRS said they deal with vehicle fires "several times a day".

BenMcr 25-10-2017 14:26
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...el-study-finds

Quote:
Electric cars emit significantly less greenhouse gases over their lifetimes than diesel engines even when they are powered by the most carbon intensive energy, a new report has found.

In Poland, which uses high volumes of coal, electric vehicles produced a quarter less emissions than diesels when put through a full lifecycle modelling study by Belgium’s VUB University.

CO2 reductions on Europe’s cleanest grid in Sweden were a remarkable 85%, falling to around one half for countries such as the UK.

Stuart 25-10-2017 16:27
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35920838)
Source

And you thought a petrol tank was dangerous.
From the article
Quote:
While the Tesla performed as it should by containing the fire just in the battery compartment.

A Tesla spokeswoman said: "Tesla’s billions of miles of actual driving data shows that its vehicles have been roughly five times less likely to experience a fire than a conventional gasoline vehicle."

The video highlights the potential dangers of millions of electric cars flooding UK roads and the prospect of an uncontrollable blaze breaking out.
So, the article sort of contradicts itself.

It says that the Tesla performed just as it should, and cites a source (at Tesla) claiming that Teslas experience fires roughly five times less often than petrol cars, then says the video highlights potential dangers of millions of electric cars.

Let me get this straight. Lithium Ion batteries are dangerous. As are Petrol and Diesel. In all three cases, the danger can be mitigated by the installation of safety mechanisms and measures. Never entirely removed, but reduced and mitigated.

---------- Post added at 15:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:04 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35920749)
Proper wireless charging exists as well although it's currently really inefficient but before too long we could see it at car parks and such.
While they have retired the original stations, it looks like Tesla are still working on fast battery swapping technology, so it's entirely possible that filling stations will adapt, and add battery swap stations. In future, these swap stations may be able to swap a battery pack in a few minutes, in which case, it will be as convenient as filling up at the pump.

Stuart 25-10-2017 18:29
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35920691)
We had a Tesla owner stay with us last year. Loved having it on the driveway even if it was only for one night. :D

Someone local must own one as well, because I’ve seen one on the roads near here a couple of times lately.

They are very, very lovely machines, and capable of replacing a petro-fuelled car for just about anyone short of a hard working sales rep.

Pity I’ll never have the means to own one though!
We have a Tesla owner up the street. It is an awesome car, although it is scary as a pedestrian because when you are crossing the road, you cannot hear it (I know I will still see it, but I never realized how much I relied on my ears). I think the owner owns a company where he does a *lot* of motorway travel, and apparently the Tesla does work out cheaper, although you have to factor in the charge time. He has installed a Tesla home charging station on his drive, which means if he leaves the car plugged in over night, it will be fully charged the next morning.

Damien 25-10-2017 18:32
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35921818)
We have a Tesla owner up the street. It is an awesome car, although it is scary as a pedestrian because when you are crossing the road, you cannot hear it (I know I will still see it, but I never realized how much I relied on my ears). I think the owner owns a company where he does a *lot* of motorway travel, and apparently the Tesla does work out cheaper, although you have to factor in the charge time. He has installed a Tesla home charging station on his drive, which means if he leaves the car plugged in over night, it will be fully charged the next morning.
They should force them to play the Jaws theme if they're going under 10mph

Osem 25-10-2017 18:45
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35921818)
We have a Tesla owner up the street. It is an awesome car, although it is scary as a pedestrian because when you are crossing the road, you cannot hear it (I know I will still see it, but I never realized how much I relied on my ears). I think the owner owns a company where he does a *lot* of motorway travel, and apparently the Tesla does work out cheaper, although you have to factor in the charge time. He has installed a Tesla home charging station on his drive, which means if he leaves the car plugged in over night, it will be fully charged the next morning.
Hearing is unique amongst our senses since it's operational all the time and working away in the background telling us so much about our surroundings without any need for us to think about it. Those of us lucky enough to be able to hear do take it very much for granted.

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35921819)
They should force them to play the Jaws theme if they're going under 10mph
I'm sure there'll sooner or later be a law which requires electric vehicles to emit a certain amount of 'noise'.

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:40 ----------

It'll be interesting to see the longevity of such vehicles in the real world and how this will impact on the longer term cost of ownership i.e. batteries, electric motors, inverters etc. Will it ever be realistic for people on low incomes to own and run electric vehicles in the same way they can cheap old cars today? If not then the move towards all electric is going to have a similar effect on society as the cost of housing has. The rich and middle classes will have their choice but the poor might well be deprived of their mobility.

Uncle Peter 25-10-2017 23:54
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35921819)
They should force them to play the Jaws theme if they're going under 10mph
https://youtu.be/ZvYQiEEyChI

Sorted

papa smurf 26-10-2017 10:46
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
[QUOTE=Osem;35921821]Hearing is unique amongst our senses since it's operational all the time and working away in the background telling us so much about our surroundings without any need for us to think about it. Those of us lucky enough to be able to hear do take it very much for granted.

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ----------



I'm sure there'll sooner or later be a law which requires electric vehicles to emit a certain amount of 'noise'.[COLOR="Silver"]


lolly stick in the back wheel

BenMcr 26-10-2017 11:24
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35921821)
I'm sure there'll sooner or later be a law which requires electric vehicles to emit a certain amount of 'noise'
Already is in the EU:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26857743

Should also be in the US, unless it gets reversed by Trump:
https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/...estrian-safety

denphone 01-05-2018 06:32
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Ministers' £400m plan for electric car charging infrastructure delayed.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ucture-delayed

Quote:
However, nearly half a year later, it has emerged that the government has not even started the recruitment process for an official to raise the £200m of private investment – let alone begin the process of securing the funding.

Paul 01-05-2018 14:36
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Well, they do have 20 or so years, so I guess a few months wont make a lot of difference.

denphone 01-05-2018 14:49
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Given the track record of previous government programmes which end up taking twice as long , cost 3 times as much l would not bet on it IMO.

denphone 23-07-2018 17:41
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
UK electric car drivers face paying more to charge at peak times.

Quote:
British electric car drivers face having to pay more to power their car if they refuse to shift their charging to off-peak times, in a move designed to lessen their burden on the electricity network.
Quote:
Such a scenario would require costly upgrades to local electricity grids, which everyone would ultimately pay for through their energy bills.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...em-electricity

nashville 23-07-2018 18:20
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Do not fancy Electric ones, Why should the government tell us what is best for us. We will soon be like robots ,

1andrew1 24-07-2018 00:40
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashville (Post 35956147)
Why should the government tell us what is best for us.
Global warming.

pip08456 24-07-2018 01:21
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35956232)
Global warming.
So at present renewable energy sources, solar or wind, cannot supply our full energy needs and to ensure that we still have nuclear and gas powered power generating stations.

Where is the, not Gigawatts, but Petawatts of power going to come from to recharge all these electric vehicles and maintain household and industrial power supply? Can the charging point infrastructure be in place nationwide well before petrol and diesel engines are banned? We don't have 22yrs to do it but considerably less as petrol and diesel are being phased out.

One more nuclear plant won't do it as what we have now is coming to end of life. Objections to nuclear will be raised not least due to what happened at Chernobyl and in Japan.

Damien 24-07-2018 10:04
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
We need to build more nuclear power plants and soon.

---------- Post added at 09:04 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35956238)
So at present renewable energy sources, solar or wind, cannot supply our full energy needs and to ensure that we still have nuclear and gas powered power generating stations.
Solar especially is making great gains though. It's much more efficient than it was 10, 5 years ago. I think the promise for solar as well is having it spread out more. Rooftops of homes with excess power being sold back to the grid (and taken off your energy bill) etc.

As well as building big new sources of power I think we shouldn't underestimate the small improvements we can make by making all devices more energy efficient and recapturing wasted energy in cars, on roads, from the sun and so on.

Quote:
Objections to nuclear will be raised not least due to what happened at Chernobyl and in Japan.
Japan is a good argument for nuclear power IMO. That was a plant with older technology which got hit by quite a lot of things nature can throw at you, earthquakes and tsunamis, and the damage whilst bad wasn't a catastrophe. We can build safer ones now that won't be hit by such things.

denphone 24-07-2018 10:11
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
But a lot of Solar subsidies are being axed.

Quote:
Since incentives were cut in early 2016, householders have largely stopped putting solar on rooftops

Quote:
Those incentives were slashed dramatically at the start of 2016, largely killing the financial attraction for householders. Installations plummeted and companies folded.
Advertisement
Quote:
Next April the scheme closes entirely and ministers are yet to signal that it will be replaced.
Quote:
Unsurprisingly, that has led to a bleak outlook for household solar. Growth halved last year, which the government says is “not surprising”, given earlier rapid expansion.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ery-technology

papa smurf 24-07-2018 10:14
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35956253)
We need to build more nuclear power plants and soon.

---------- Post added at 09:04 ---------- Previous post was at 08:58 ----------



Solar especially is making great gains though. It's much more efficient than it was 10, 5 years ago. I think the promise for solar as well is having it spread out more. Rooftops of homes with excess power being sold back to the grid (and taken off your energy bill) etc.

As well as building big new sources of power I think we shouldn't underestimate the small improvements we can make by making all devices more energy efficient and recapturing wasted energy in cars, on roads, from the sun and so on.



Japan is a good argument for nuclear power IMO. That was a plant with older technology which got hit by quite a lot of things nature can throw at you, earthquakes and tsunamis, and the damage whilst bad wasn't a catastrophe. We can build safer ones now that won't be hit by such things.
So the answer to environmental disaster is to build a number of potential environmental disasters to generate power for environmentally safe cars .
i'm off to the petrol station to fill up the car it runs on things that already dead .

Brunel 24-07-2018 10:23
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
A petrol engine, is at best circa 40% efficient. Remaining 60% of the energy in
the fuel is wasted, mostly as heat.

Damien 24-07-2018 10:24
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35956256)
So the answer to environmental disaster is to build a number of potential environmental disasters to generate power for environmentally safe cars .
i'm off to the petrol station to fill up the car it runs on things that already dead .
It's an answer to the fact the country is going to face a energy crisis in the near future unless we address it. Since science hasn't yet found a way to harness the power of sarcasm we need to settle for less than perfect sources until such a time renewables can handle it all.

heero_yuy 24-07-2018 10:30
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Here's some food for thought on the move to electric cars:

Quote:
Quote from the Guardian:


The switch to electric cars poses a big financial problem for the government – because every time a driver switches from a petrol or diesel car to an electric vehicle, the government loses 57.95p per litre in fuel tax at every fill-up.

In total, duties on petrol and diesel add up to almost £28bn a year for the exchequer. Worse for the chancellor of the day, petrol and diesel sales make a contribution to VAT. VAT is charged at 20% of the wholesale price plus the duty, which equates to 16.7% of the final price. That’s a form of double taxation and explains why more than 65% of the cost at the pumps goes to the exchequer.

An electric car charged from the grid will currently generate just 5p in VAT for every pound spent. If the car is charged directly from solar panels on a garage roof, the Treasury is likely to go empty-handed.
Road pricing?

The motorist is too much of a milchcow for the government to let off the hook. Expect some form of revenue neutral re-taxation to take place.

papa smurf 24-07-2018 10:35
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35956258)
It's an answer to the fact the country is going to face a energy crisis in the near future unless we address it. Since science hasn't yet found a way to harness the power of sarcasm we need to settle for less than perfect sources until such a time renewables can handle it all.
Science hasn't managed to harness the power of fantasy boyhood dreams either ;)

Damien 24-07-2018 10:37
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35956263)
Science hasn't managed to harness the power of fantasy boyhood dreams either ;)
Nuclear power plants aren't a fantasy.

Brunel 24-07-2018 10:46
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
The "personnel chariot" as we know it, will have to go.

papa smurf 24-07-2018 10:53
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35956265)
Nuclear power plants aren't a fantasy.
Safe ones are .

daveeb 24-07-2018 11:38
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35956267)
Safe ones are .
Nothing in life is 100% safe but nuclear power stations are about as close as you can get.

papa smurf 24-07-2018 11:44
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveeb (Post 35956268)
Nothing in life is 100% safe but nuclear power stations are about as close as you can get.
Is that a fact ?

Stuart 24-07-2018 14:34
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35956238)
So at present renewable energy sources, solar or wind, cannot supply our full energy needs and to ensure that we still have nuclear and gas powered power generating stations.

Where is the, not Gigawatts, but Petawatts of power going to come from to recharge all these electric vehicles and maintain household and industrial power supply? Can the charging point infrastructure be in place nationwide well before petrol and diesel engines are banned? We don't have 22yrs to do it but considerably less as petrol and diesel are being phased out.

One more nuclear plant won't do it as what we have now is coming to end of life. Objections to nuclear will be raised not least due to what happened at Chernobyl and in Japan.
I did watch a video on Electric car use, and a neighbour of mine who owns a Tesla model S did back the video up.

The central point of the video was that electric cars are designed to be charged, probably overnight, while you (the owner) are home from work, doing the sort of stuff you normally do in the evening. The car will be fully charged in the morning. Yes, the range is probably 2-300 miles, but how many people regularly drive more than that in a day? My neighbour drives all over the country with his job, but he finds the Tesla considerably cheaper to run than a reasonably specced petrol car.

The technology isn't there yet to enable a full charge in a few minutes (whereas with petrol or diesel, you can get in the filling station, fill up, pay and be out the station in less than 5 minutes. It may be one day, but that's not where Tesla appear to think it will go. Where they are placing supercharger stations, it's usually on major roads, and usually near somewhere a person can go for the several hours it will take to recharge the car (such as a hotel or other leisure facility).

That's not to say I think the electricity grid will cope. I'm not sure it will. We have too many power stations that are near end of life, and the electricity companies do not seem interested in replacing them. It barely copes now in the winter, without the load imposed on it by 10s of thousands of electric cars charging overnight.

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35956269)
Is that a fact ?
Apparently so.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclea...y_and_security

papa smurf 24-07-2018 14:48
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35956290)
I did watch a video on Electric car use, and a neighbour of mine who owns a Tesla model S did back the video up.

The central point of the video was that electric cars are designed to be charged, probably overnight, while you (the owner) are home from work, doing the sort of stuff you normally do in the evening. The car will be fully charged in the morning. Yes, the range is probably 2-300 miles, but how many people regularly drive more than that in a day? My neighbour drives all over the country with his job, but he finds the Tesla considerably cheaper to run than a reasonably specced petrol car.

The technology isn't there yet to enable a full charge in a few minutes (whereas with petrol or diesel, you can get in the filling station, fill up, pay and be out the station in less than 5 minutes. It may be one day, but that's not where Tesla appear to think it will go. Where they are placing supercharger stations, it's usually on major roads, and usually near somewhere a person can go for the several hours it will take to recharge the car (such as a hotel or other leisure facility).

That's not to say I think the electricity grid will cope. I'm not sure it will. We have too many power stations that are near end of life, and the electricity companies do not seem interested in replacing them. It barely copes now in the winter, without the load imposed on it by 10s of thousands of electric cars charging overnight.

---------- Post added at 13:34 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------



Apparently so.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclea...y_and_security
to me it's a ticking time bomb until the luck runs out .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nts_by_country

Stuart 24-07-2018 17:59
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35956295)
to me it's a ticking time bomb until the luck runs out .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nts_by_country
It's far from totally safe, but nothing is totally safe. It's a case of whether the benefits outweigh the costs.. The main benefit in this case being reducing global warming due to excessive use of fossil fuels, and the cost being the radiation problems caused by a Nuclear disaster.

denphone 13-10-2018 11:52
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Government ends incentives to buy new hybrids and cuts those for electric vehicles.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-says-industry

Quote:
Car manufacturers said the decision was an “astounding” move. It comes only three months after the transport secretary, Chris Grayling, published a Road to Zero strategy to curb vehicle emissions by promoting greener cars and three days after the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change called for an urgent switch to electric vehicles.

Onramp 13-10-2018 12:57
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Not so astounding when you consider the UK's "national interests".

papa smurf 13-10-2018 16:03
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35966332)
Government ends incentives to buy new hybrids and cuts those for electric vehicles.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-says-industry
All's well that ends well you can still fill up with diesel or petrol .

Hugh 13-10-2018 17:31
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35966355)
All's well that ends well you can still fill up with diesel or petrol .
While we still have some...

denphone 13-10-2018 17:58
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35966355)
All's well that ends well you can still fill up with diesel or petrol .
Which will be for longer then we have been told..

richard s 13-10-2018 22:09
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban (2040).
 
Millions of tonnes of methane gas out there under the ocean for one source but it does have its draw backs.


Advantages:

  • Methane is a natural gas so it is a major fuel.
  • Methane is also the building foundation for hundreds of compounds which we use to make thousands of our products today.
  • In new vehicles we have today that is used to burn hydrogen, billions of natural gas(Methane) will be steam cracked into hydrogen for use as motor vehicle fuel.


Disadvantages:


  • It is a main contributor to global warming.
  • It is very dangerous to the human body,
  • high enough concentrations in the air can result in suffocation of air breathing creatures
  • is highly explosive.
JUST LIKE FARTS.:D

Chris 18-11-2020 15:15
Re: [Updated] Petrol & diesel vehicles ban now 2030
 
El gov has brought the ban forward to 2030. Now we’re second only to Norway, which will ban new petrol and diesel car sales from 2025.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54981425

papa smurf 18-11-2020 15:37
Re: [Updated] Petrol & diesel vehicles ban now 2030
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36058687)
El gov has brought the ban forward to 2030. Now we’re second only to Norway, which will ban new petrol and diesel car sales from 2025.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54981425
We have a charging point in cleethorpes that will charge 2 cars,going to need a couple more me thinks.

Damien 18-11-2020 16:00
Re: [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030
 
Ambitious but IMO very achievable. I think before 2025 most new consumer cars sold will be electric and at some point and technology and infrastructure should hit an inflection point where it suddenly speeds right up.


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