Re: BREXIT
 

This straw poll isn't going well for @remain eu.

https://twitter.com/Pippincp/status/838476498017390592

Re: BREXIT
 

Cab't see why anyone would not want to remain. :confused:

Staying in the EU is clearly the safest option for our long term prosperity and social wellbeing, just ask the Greeks. We clearly aren't capable of running our own affairs and there are no problems in the EU. If we leave the EU our kids will be forced to work up chimneys and our economy will be ruined. We'll be doomed... Doomed I tell you...

:D

Re: BREXIT
 

Damn Osem, I forgot the straw poll is bound to be screwed because only uneducated use twitter.:D

Re: BREXIT
 

No, only the uneducated vote to leave the EU. Well the uneducated and the easily led to be fair. The undeducated, the easily led and the bigoted actually. Why else would they vote to bite the hand that so lovingly feeds them? There's nothing wrong with the EU that a few more referenda won't put right. It's just a question of educating the electorate and asking the right question, more than once if the result isn't what Brussels wants to hear...

Re: BREXIT
 

You said it Pipster , not me ! ;)

Anyway, you're wrong as the US President uses Twitter as his main method of communication, and no one can argue about his intelligence :p:

Re: BREXIT
 

Just as intended you rose to the bait Mr K. I notice you wish to deflect from the straw poll by bringing Mr Trump into it.

Now let's have your honest opinion. @remain eu started a poll on twitter asking if the referendum was re-run how would you vote. So far it is overwhelmingly leave.

If you would like to debate this sensibly I don't mind as I'm sure others would also.

Re: BREXIT
 

This poll puts leave at 51%.
https://twitter.com/remain_leave

Re: BREXIT
 

Different poll Andrew.

https://twitter.com/remain_eu

Re: BREXIT
 

My son was invited to visit the houses of parliament. While it's true many of their lordships are pretty experienced in years what often looks like a snooze may not be. Their seats are fitted with "hidden" speakers and since some are a little hard of hearing will sit in a way to get their ears closer so they can actually hear. (Of course this could also be used to excuse a little nap too!)

Re: BREXIT
 

I heard they're also equipped with discreet little buttons enabling them to multitask such vitally important functions as ordering their subsidised food/wine/cigars, checking their expenses and booking their taxis home...

Re: BREXIT
 

Since the referendum of the 12 remain voters four have said if it was rerun they would vote leave not sure whats changed their mind but none of those who voted leave have changed to remain and a few others i chat with on the net have said they have experienced the same. Obviously not conclusive or even remotely suggestive of a larger trend but I'm not so sure a rerun would end with a majority remain vote.

Re: BREXIT
 

I reckon if it were re-run now it would probably be about 55% leave. But I reckon once Article 50 has been invoked then it may revert to 45% leave.

Re: BREXIT
 

I think the majority for leave would increase significantly, doesn't stop me suggesting it happen in other places though just to watch brextremists heads explode at the thought of it

Re: BREXIT
 

Andrew i know you may not believe it or understand it but most if not 99% of people that voted leave understood more about article 50 then most remainers given the amount of remain supporters calling for a soft brexit which article 50 practically makes impossible. Once article 50 is started it's a oneway street that leavers want to go down so not sure why you think a good proportion of leave voters would suddenly change to remain.

Re: BREXIT
 

i could never change to remain i would feel as though i had betrayed my country in favor of a foreign power .

Re: BREXIT
 

No, it would mean your head had ruled your heart. Talk of 'betrayal', 'traitors', 'foreign powers' are emotive tabloid cobblers. People need to (and will when it's too late) wake up to the economic reality.
(P.s it's 'favour', we're British after all...)

Re: BREXIT
 

If money is all you care about then that's your call :(

Re: BREXIT
 

For those who don't use Twitter (Self included) managed to get the following poll results: Sample size is 56,000 votes: 69% Leave : 27% Remain : 5% Would not vote.

Re: BREXIT
 

It's not about whether you have an expensive TV or not.

It's about whether there's enough money to care for the elderly and not to ration operations. It's about whether there's enough places at schools and colleges. It's about whether public transport is available to allow people who can't drive the chance to find work further afield. It's about the chance to re-train people in new roles as mechanisation takes over in factories and in delivery and transport jobs.

If someone is well off, they can buy all those things privately, send their children to public schools, pay for their university fees, etc. So the country being poorer is less of an issue. Maybe one less ski trip a year if they really have to cut back.

Most people in the UK, however hard they work, aren't in this situation. That's why the wealth of the country is important.

Re: BREXIT
 

Load of crap : My parents were born in the 50's and they said they managed fine. They said country was brought to it's knees in 1972 (When we came to be on the EU bloc) and they said it was downhill from then on in.

Re: BREXIT
 

Two peoples' worthy experience does not represent a country of 64m people.

Re: BREXIT
 

Good Morning all decent, hardworking, patriotic, British, EU Leavers.
Good Moaning traitorous Remoaners :D

Re: BREXIT
 

One wonders how we got by before the EU......and the rest of the world gets by. :D

Re: BREXIT
 

Bollocks. We managed before 1972, we will again you need to let that sink in instead of wanting to remain in a corrupted pile of garbage.

Re: BREXIT
 

Just worth a mention that majority that voted to leave were in the older age group who had had experience of life outside the EU (and inside) ~ maybe not just the two peoples experience.

Re: Brexit
 

REMOANERS DEFEATED: Government BEATS pro-Remain peers' demand for SECOND Brexit referendum

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...ed-Brexit-vote

---------- Post added at 16:48 ---------- Previous post was at 16:40 ----------

sorry i meant Zugunsten einer fremden Macht ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Good. I suggest their Lordships continue to observe the will of the people or the people will observe their expenses more closely ;).

Re: BREXIT
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/03/13.jpg

:)

Re: BREXIT
 

Stop being a traitorous remoaning minnie then ner ner ;)

Re: Brexit
 

and derail the gravy train:)

Re: BREXIT
 

I agree with Mick's parents. I was born in the 50's so know exactly what it was like.

Two referendums (referenda for the educated) and I voted leave each time!

Re: BREXIT
 

Sadly some still continue to use insults and make themselves look even more stupid it seems...:rolleyes:

Re: BREXIT
 

hows the sense of humor bypass going? sadly it seems to have saddened you to the point of starting every sentence with "sadly" and that's just plain sad :) its just banter lighten up :)

Re: BREXIT
 

In case you have forgotten Brexit is a very serious process as its probably the biggest event to happen to this country for nearly 50 years so one has to not take it lightly and make sure we get it right because if we don't generations to come will be picking up the debris for many many years long after we have exited the EU papa.

And no l am not using sadly or indeed in this post as you have to remember that my vocabulary is pretty limited.;)

Re: BREXIT
 

tbf Papa have to agree with you there, humour is often sadly lacking on these forums, and often misinterpreted.

Anyway Brexiters now defeated :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39200658

Bit of a strange vote anyway. Surely all parliamentary votes should be meaningful , otherwise they are wasting tax payers money. How can the govt. oppose a vote being meaningful?

Re: BREXIT
 

Because of negotiating training 101; The other side needs to know that you are prepared to walk away from the deal. Your barging power is severely weakened without that option. Remainers know that but they see an option to force a soft (almost melted) Brexit.


Didn't one of your best mates write a book on deal making... Donald... something or other? Might be worth you getting a copy... they're probably going pretty cheap in the UK ;)

Re: BREXIT
 

it just goes back to the commons to be overturned

Re: BREXIT
 

Yup no need to worry.

Re: BREXIT
 

Agree with all your comments. The Lords are proving their worth as a robust check and balance to a Ukip-emulating Parliament.

Re: BREXIT
 

And then it goes back to the Lords ;)

Re: BREXIT
 

You're missing the point.

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:47 ----------

How long can they keep batting it back to one another? Forever? :)

Re: BREXIT
 

They need to sell there stuff here as well.

Can you honestly see Germany not selling any cars here.

Re: BREXIT
 

Ultimately the Parliament act gets used and that's that.

Re: BREXIT
 

Wonder how long it'll be before some shining wit comes along and says it's due to education standards... :angel:

It's not as simple as that, certainly not for us anyway, tariffs are easy to negotiate or absorb, services much harder to include in trade deals

Re: BREXIT
 

Looks like Theresa May doesn't like alternative views too much. She's sacked Hezza as an adviser following today's defeat in the Lords.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7617191.html

Re: BREXIT
 

Don't worry Den, nothing we discuss on this forum will have the slightest impact on the outcome of Brexit. Besides, we have discussed everything at length, more than once, so a bit of humour now and then isn't a bad thing is it?

Some might say that humour is used to build bridges and I know the rift between Leave and Remain is something that concerns you so a laff might be just what the Doctor ordered eh? As others have said a laff is all that it is :)

Re: Brexit
 

SACKED from Government adviser role

"I have just been told by the Chief Whip in the Lords that No 10 is to sack me from the five jobs ....

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/776...european-union

Re: Brexit
 

Yes, posted that last night. Interestingly, the two have never met so don't know how much she will miss him!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...elling-brexit/

Re: BREXIT
 

Off topic slighty but is your Avatar picture an accurate likeness? :) Mine is ... :)

Re: BREXIT
 

Mine is the personification of a withered and forgotten spirit trapped inside cable forum and who is desperate to escape. Yours looks pretty much the same to me ;).
I'll change it soon though; change is good :).

Re: Brexit
 

Heseltine is a self serving dinosaur that only sees thing's oneway and i doubt he'll be missed by number 10 anymore then we have missed him as an mp. We need to get on with getting out and be done with it.

Re: Brexit
 

Oh I don't know, quite like him. Best political moment in the 1980s was when he stormed out of Thatchers cabinet through the No10 front door, and resigned live in front of the TV cameras. Tarzan is a top bloke and history will prove him right.

Re: Brexit
 

I very much doubt history will bother much with him just another self serving backstabber not exactly a rarity in politics. Your in for a few good years MrK as there will be an economic cost to brexit in the short to midterm but after that the UK will prosper as we again become a global trader and we will watch as the EU struggles from one mess to the next. That's the harsh reality for the EU growing financial issues that are not being properly or decisively handled and as time goes on more member states fail the EU's requirements. Not even touching on the ever greater integration or the creation of federal european entities such as a singular police force and military because expanding EU borders ever closer to russia isn't enough we have to then threaten them with a european military.

Your very good at slating brexit every chance you get but perhaps you should open your eyes to the problems the EU faces in the coming years because out of the two brexit will be significantly less costly.

Re: Brexit
 

Never pretended the EU is perfect, nothing ever is. We aren't the only country that wanted reform, that would have been the much more sensible route. That's why all main political parties campaigned for Remain ( including the current and former PMs and Chancellors), the alternative wasn't credible. We just hear negative news about EU from the press and the benefits will only be truly realised when we've left. Leaving the largest trading block in the World is madness. However accept that what people have voted for, but they can't blame anyone except themselves when they are significantly less well off as a result. Not just for a few years, but generations. There's the £50bn bill for just leaving to begin with (the exact figure to be negotiated, but it's going to be big). Yesterday's Budget tax rise was just the start.

Re: Brexit
 

And Cameron proved that the Federal states of Europe were having none of that. Glad he did; now we get to leave.

Re: Brexit
 

It's called being in denial. Some folks are experts at it.

---------- Post added at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 ----------

Funny how some people are still peddling the old 'reform the EU from the inside' guff. Went well for DC didn't it when he tried to get some iota of movement on the verge of the EU's second largest contributor having a vote on leaving... :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

I agree. By leaving the EU, we're throwing out the baby with the bath water. It's not just a simple loss of prosperity for five years, it's a long-term reduction in global influence and prosperity due to a smaller number of markets to sell our services in. The EU has been the most successful trading bloc for making trading deals with other countries; overall it's not held us back in making deals. Yes, the UK will survive but we won't be such an important player or as prosperous as if we had remained in the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Thing is, it was far from just being 'the biggest trading bloc in the World' wasn't it. It started off as that, hence the old name 'Common Market' but it mutated into much much more, with the trading only ending up as one facet.

It's the other facets that we are (or will be) well rid off.

I don't think we will be alone either.

Re: Brexit
 

Didn't he threaten a bunch of Labour MPs with the ceremonial mace when they celebrated after voting to nationalise the defence industry? ;) That was one of his most famous moments, albeit it one not recorded by TV cameras as the time.

Re: Brexit
 

You can not prove that. I can not prove the opposite. But you can prove that leaving the Federal States of Europe gives Britain control of Laws, Taxes and Immigration; i.e. Sovereignty.

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 ----------


The EU have an agenda; The Federal States of Europe. Nothing will sway them away from that agenda. Failing to understand that, is a mistake in my view.

Re: Brexit
 

That's a blinkered way of putting it. The EU is failing Andrew, it consists of countries that are not paying their fair share, some of them have required bail out after bail out and it was being said Greece is looking like it will require yet another.

It is not sustainable and the trading block is not worth being part of when it cripples those countries who should be able to trade with who they like, when they like, sorry but I don't want to be part of a corrupted system that dictates like that so I'm glad we leaving that nonsense and we can do what the hell we like, instead of being told what to do by unelected set of pricks.

Re: Brexit
 

Brexit has caused quite a few other member states of the EU to consider the degree to which their citizens are supporting the EU or being dragged along by politicians looking out for themselves. We were the first but we will not be the last and it will be interesting to see how france and germany will fare once they have to make up the shortfall. It is simply stupid to suggest it's all downhill from here for the UK and the worlds largest trading bloc was giving us less and less as time went on so stepping out is not necessarily a bad thing. I personally have more faith in the UK and it's people then some clearly have and believe we will make a success out of getting out of the EU.

It's funny in a way that the doom and gloom approach of the remain campaign backfired so badly and yet the supposedly more educated people continue to use a failed tactic rather then come up with something better.

Re: Brexit
 

The usual suspects here know that full well, they just don't like admitting it because doing so destroys their argument that the UK can reform the EU from the inside*. There is no negotiation possible on the EU's raison d'etre and they've confirmed it categorically many times.


* Just look how far we've managed to reform it in the decades we've been members lol.

---------- Post added at 12:48 ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 ----------

Maybe they're not as clever as they think eh? :D

They're all too ready to predict nothing but gloom and doom ahead for the UK outside of the EU but have nothing to say about all the huge known risks and problems evident within the EU. I can't think why... :shrug:

:rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

See the 'usual suspect' is still labelling those that don't agree with his narrow view of the world as 'the usual suspects' :D.
Nearly as childish as seeing what you want to see and ignoring what you don't, nothing is ever all good or all bad.

Re: Brexit
 

Interesting article in the FT about what kind of trade the country wants after we leave the UK.

Economists for Brexit has been renamed Economists for Free Trade which reflects its beliefs of no barriers to trade in the UK. The organisation's Patrick Minford wrote last year “Over time . . . it seems likely that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing, but this shouldn’t scare us.”

To read the article, google Brexit campaigners shift focus to global free trade or subscribers can visit https://www.ft.com/content/f2a07810-...8-3700c5664d30

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

The EU's imperfect, I'll be the first to admit that. Greece is Greece and it should never have been allowed to join the Eurozone, but that's another matter. But compared to countries like the US which employs the President's son-in-law the EU is a shining beacon of democracy. And I lose track of people who say that the EU can't get anything down as countries need to vote on things, and the next minute complain it's undemocratic and run by bureaucrats whilst forgetting there is a Parliament!
In economic terms, we pay about 0.6% of our GDP and we get back a 10% larger GDP. I'd say that's a good return on investment.

Re: Brexit
 

thats not how you spell bureaucracy

Re: Brexit
 

If you want to willingly surrender your National Sovereignty to a Federal States of Europe, which means progressively surrendering Laws, Taxes and Borders to people who are not directly elected, then you could be correct, although wasn't there some issue with getting the books signed off?


But I don't want to be ruled by unelected people and lose British control of Laws, Taxes and Borders. I don't think you will find many UK citizens that do.


It seems to me that you're happy to trade our Sovereignty. I'm not.


And What has Trump got to do with it? He was democratically elected, more than can be said for the EU leaders. Here's an anti Trump news outlet saying that it is legal to appoint his son in law.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/u...ment.html?_r=0

Re: Brexit
 

:tu:

Clearly some people only respect democracy when it yields what they want.

Re: BREXIT
 

My poll at work is 98% leave.

The sooner we leave and the sooner Jimmy Krankie resigns the happier I'll be.

We must do a hard Brexit so the EU can't force us into things we don't want.

Can you really see Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Seat, Fiat etc pulling out of the UK and not selling any cars.

We survived before, we'll survive after.

Re: Brexit
 

Not entirely true about being unelected, same as the accounts not being signed of since 1926 or whenever isn't really true, still explaining it properly doesn't make for those short, snappy headlines we so enjoy that don't stretch our attention spans for to long so we can get back to important stuff like Facebook or cats on slides.

Re: BREXIT
 

Imperative in my view.

Re: Brexit
 

The debate has moved on. Others are trying to drag us back to mid-June 2016's debate which is unproductive.
The debate now is for free trade or not free trade.

---------- Post added at 20:06 ---------- Previous post was at 20:04 ----------

Imperative if we want a break-up of the UK. I don't, but I accept some see it as an acceptable price to pay.

---------- Post added at 20:08 ---------- Previous post was at 20:06 ----------

lol, nailed it perfectly!

Re: Brexit
 

we'll let you know when it's moved on, and what it's moved on to, if in fact it moves at all ;)

Re: Brexit
 

like Brexit itself. :)

Re: Brexit
 

i think we are somewhere between stale and mate with a smattering of dog chasing its own tail .:)

Re: Brexit
 

And that is directly related to sovereignty. That is what you don't seem to understand. To stay in the single market would mean surrendering some of our control over Laws, immigration and tax policies. As I've said several times, Sovereignty is eroded via the back door of trade deals. By advocating the single market, you are advocating erosion of British Sovereignty.


We need to be out of the single market and negotiating the best trade deal we can. And when you are negotiating, the other side needs to know, in no uncertain terms, that you will walk away if you don't like the deal they offer.

Re: Brexit
 

I have no problem with the scots having another independence vote as long as the rest of the UK gets a vote on if they want scotland in the union anymore. It was meant to be a once in a generation vote according to everyone up north now clearly it will be something the snp kick off at the slightest excuse and that is a disruption we do not need. I'm also betting if the rest got a vote the snp would go very quiet and a lot less enthusiastic it's easy to keep having disruptive referenda when there is no consequence.

Re: Brexit
 

Sorry, in connection with the article I posted I meant there's now a debate in the Brexit camp about trade deals full stop, not just with the EU.
Do we:
- Go for Economists for Free Trade's approach. They want no tariffs. But their Patrick Minford has said this will cause the end of UK manufacturing.
- Go for a more interventionist, protectionist economy with tariffs which is likely to leave the country a lot poorer.

In context, polling by Ipsos Mori found that 45% of Britons thought single market access should be prioritised, while 39% prioritised control of immigration. Free trade is linked to granting work visas to trading partners. India has already made clear it would like more immigration into the UK as part of any new deal and other countries are likely to want this too. How will this go down with the electorate?

---------- Post added 10-03-2017 at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was 09-03-2017 at 23:30 ----------

A Scottish refrendum is now on the cards, though whether the SNP will win it is unknown. Latest polls are 50% remain, 50% leave the UK. As Brexit and Trump have shown, we shouldn't rule out another poll upset.
Nicola Sturgeon is aiming for late 2018 but Downing Street is hoping to delay a referendum until after Brexit. Having it half-way through the Brexit negotiations sounds a bit disruptive but maybe that's the plan.

Re: Brexit
 

Nicola the fish can aim for anything, it doesn't mean she'll get it so no cards are on the table.

Your usual bs. The EU’s Court of Auditors didn't produce (public) REPORTS until 1995.

Since then not one report has stated that the accounts are free from "material error".

Link

Link

Link

Re: Brexit
 

As usual humour is something that happens to other people isn't it pip, like that time you went to the effort of proving to us articles 1-49 didn't need to be triggered one after the other and in order before we could trigger article 50, still thanks for providing links for anyone who can tear themselves away from cats on slides for a moment that didn't know the accounts have in fact been signed of, lots.

Re: Brexit
 

I heard Patrick Minford some time ago on the Daily Politics putting forwaed his analysis. As far as I'm concerned, he's just another economist with another view. Brexit showed us how much we should trust Economists.

So you're now trying a new scare tactic; if you have free trade you have to accept more immigration. Do you remainers ever stop? You seem to think Britain will be so weak after we finally leave the EU that we will be over a barrel as far as trade deals go and agree to anything. I completely disagree.

Britain's immigration policy should be controlled immigration; i.e. people coming to our country to fulfil a specific job or skill need. Not an immigration quota tied to a trade deal. The latter would defeat one of the main tenants of Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

No one's scaring anyone unless people are easily scared. Read the article - there's a debate going on in the Brexit camp on free trade v protectionism. It's an important debate to have. To read the article, google Brexit campaigners shift focus to global free trade

Re: Brexit
 

Let's look at the source; a pro-remain newspaper, who have links to the Bilderberg Group. Wow! Such a surprise that they are trying to sow seeds of disharmony amongst leave supporters.

I'll put that article on my completely ignore list.

Re: Brexit
 

Always worth reading sources outside your comfort zone. Keep it quiet, but I've been known to read the Ukipgraph and Mail. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

I did actually read the article, not just ignore it. When you know where a publication is coming from, discernment of what is really going with an article is much easier.

And for your next 'Walk on the wild side'...... US Fox News via Youtube... just try not to throw things at your computer, they're not cheap to replace!:D

Re: Brexit
 

i'll put on the nail on the back of the outside lavy door :)

Re: Brexit
 

I don't think this is a good idea at all

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...xit-negotiator

Re: Brexit
 

Plenty of Brits with homes in France and Spain would be happy.

Re: Brexit
 

They just can't bear to let us go. Doesn't it just bring a tear to your eye....

And Juncker wants us back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39230044

Re: Brexit
 

On the face of it, it's a nice idea.

Re: Brexit
 

Lovers of a hard Brexit and good value chocolate be warned - you can't have your chocolate and eat it! ;)
"A top Mars executive says that if the UK leaves the EU without a trade deal it will result in higher prices and threaten jobs."
"In simple terms, if the UK and the EU fail to agree on a new preferential deal, it will be to the detriment of all. Yet that realisation may not be sufficient to produce an agreement."
http://news.sky.com/story/why-mars-b...-deal-10796207
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rd-Brexit.html

Re: Brexit
 

a remoan a day helps you work rest and play .

Re: Brexit
 

More bad news I'm afraid peeps.

http://news.sky.com/story/eu-leaders...-days-10797397

Re: Brexit
 

That's not bad news....



Oh this is a more fitting tune, more fitting words to that sorry arse mess EU.

;)

Re: Brexit
 

A bonus for the health of the country.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes on the face of it, as ever the devils in the detail and 50p says there will be some caveat most of us won't like though

Re: Brexit
 

whats bad :shrug: its what the democratic process demands .

Re: Brexit
 

Hook line and sinker! I normally get accused by Brexiters of posting negative news whatever I post so I'd thought I'd label this one negative news. :)

Re: Brexit
 

aha game set and match got ya .

Re: Brexit
 

Well according to some, the Dutch are 'fascists and Nazis remnants' so all the more reason for the UK to get out I'd have thought. :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39241417
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39242707

Seriously, there seems to be a massive problem in the offing for the EU if this thing escalates and Turkey decides to renege on the migration deal and forge closer links with Putin.