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TheDaddy 22-02-2017 19:43
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35887041)
Flawed response as always.

You cannot include people who are ineligible to vote because:

A) They couldn't be arsed to become eligible i.e register to vote.
B) They didn't bother to vote on the day of the Election.
C) They spoiled their vote.

All this silly arguing about percentages and BS about whose more popular blah blah, bollocks, it does not remove the fact that whether you agree or not, DJT became the 45th President and more importantly, she (Hillary Clinton) lost. :rolleyes:
B and C are part of the eligible electorate and therefore included when someone erroneously claims the donald won nearly half the electorates vote, especially when they're using those claims to berate another member

1andrew1 22-02-2017 19:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35886977)
Just checked WP claim that they say crime in Sweden isn't up that's bollocks, it is up. So WP earns a big fat Pinocchio.

Sweden Rape Capital of the West: https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5...G73Gxk.twitter
Where does the Washington Post claim that crime in Sweden isn't up? I'm not saying that the paper didn't say it, but I would like to see the wording and time period in question.

Damien 22-02-2017 19:49
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
There is a difference between how the motivations and agendas of several different people end up creating a system in which certain people gain more than others and a coordinated effort where all these people are of the same mind. Does the world seem especially ordered and going to plan?

If it was then how did Brexit happen? Trump? Or Hollande in France? All of these people and rig world markets and events but not an election?

There is little evidence that governments or supranational organisations have the competence to pull this all off.

pip08456 22-02-2017 19:55
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35887055)
B and C are part of the eligible electorate and therefore included when someone erroneously claims the donald won nearly half the electorates vote, especially when they're using those claims to berate another member
So what would've happened if Clinton had won? Would you still include those figures then?

The only erroneous claims are by those who include those who (although eligible) did not choose to vote.

As a life long non voter in General Elections I would take umbrage at any figures you used which included my non-vote to attempt to show a lesser approval rating as those that voted gave to any party or person.

Mick 22-02-2017 20:02
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35887055)
B and C are part of the eligible electorate and therefore included when someone erroneously claims the donald won nearly half the electorates vote, especially when they're using those claims to berate someone else
It does not matter, you're attempting to use a flawed way of thinking in an attempt to de-legitimize the end result when it won't change it.

Maybe in 4 years time possibly at the next Ballot box. People can cry out for Impeachment, that is easier said than done and he has to break the law in a major way first.

I read the other day that if Nixon had not resigned, there is a possibility he could have served out his full term despite the fact he was under threat of Impeachment, because the Impeachment process is complicated it's not as straight forward as people think it is.

And even after all that, if Trump is Impeached, you get Mike Pence who will just carry on some, if not all of Trump's policies. I then read that some were crying out for the Republican's to be removed from office entirely and out of the White House, they were saying, Trump, Mike Pence etc, should be Impeached and a re-election called, it's all fantasy thinking, there is nothing in the Constitution for such a thing, only Amendment that exists, is the line of succession which is, Vice President, Speaker of the House, President pro tempore of the Senate, and the cabinet, which currently has fifteen members, beginning with the Secretary of State.

So even if Mike Pence is removed as well, it just follows the line of succession.

TheDaddy 22-02-2017 20:05
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35887058)
So what would've happened if Clinton had won? Would you still include those figures then?

The only erroneous claims are by those who include those who (although eligible) did not choose to vote.

As a life long non voter in General Elections I would take umbrage at any figures you used which included my non-vote to attempt to show a lesser approval rating as those that voted gave to any party or person.
Of course I would've, I'm no fan of hilary, could you imagine how dull it'd be if she'd won. I'd have voted bernie Sanders and if that wasn't possible Trump. Like it or not if you're on the electoral roll you're part of the eligible electorate end of story.

pip08456 22-02-2017 20:08
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
I'm not getting into a pointless argument with you.

TheDaddy 22-02-2017 20:09
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35887061)
It does not matter, you're attempting to use a flawed way of thinking in an attempt to de-legitimize the end result when it won't change it.
No I'm not, I was clarifying an incorrect assertion, that's all.

Damien 22-02-2017 20:17
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35887061)
I read the other day that if Nixon had not resigned, there is a possibility he could have served out his full term despite the fact he was under threat of Impeachment, because the Impeachment process is complicated it's not as straight forward as people think it is.
He would survive impeachment because that itself doesn't remove the President from office. They then need to have a supermajority, two thirds of the senate, following the impeachment to actually remove them. However if they did that, and all indications from the time seem to be they would have, then he would have been removed from office.

I must admit I have not heard the theory he could have survived. It was always my impression he had negligible support from congress after the tapes. Remember Nixon was literally facing criminal charges had Ford not pardoned him.

Clinton was impeached but they failed to convict. So he continued.

1andrew1 22-02-2017 20:38
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Never even thought about this but it makes sense.

Donald Trump will lose Los Angeles the 2024 Olympics, say US gold medallists
Quote:
The Independent Donald Trump’s controversial travel ban will scupper Los Angeles’ chance of hosting the 2024 summer Olympics, two US gold medallists have warned.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/o...-a7592131.html

pip08456 22-02-2017 21:03
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887067)
Never even thought about this but it makes sense.

Donald Trump will lose Los Angeles the 2024 Olympics, say US gold medallists

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/o...-a7592131.html
Put brain in gear before making a pointless post. It will only happen if Trump is still there in 7 yrs time.

OH! I forgot. The USA is the only country in the world where you can train.

At least it is since Russia got caught doping athletes.

Hugh 22-02-2017 21:19
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
The host city for the 2024 Olympics will be announced in September 2017.

1andrew1 22-02-2017 21:21
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35887068)
Put brain in gear before making a pointless post. It will only happen if Trump is still there in 7 yrs time.

OH! I forgot. The USA is the only country in the world where you can train.

At least it is since Russia got caught doping athletes.
The 2024 Olympic Games are awarded this September. Trump's travel bans and anti-refuge approach must surely count against the city's chances of winning the bid.
(If he's doing such a cracking job as some on here believe he is, then doubtless he will be re-elected.)

pip08456 22-02-2017 21:37
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887075)
The 2024 Olympic Games are awarded this September. Trump's travel bans and anti-refuge approach must surely count against the city's chances of winning the bid.
(If he's doing such a cracking job as some on here believe he is, then doubtless he will be re-elected.)
If he's doing such a cracking job then it's up to the people of the USA to re-elect him no matter what we in the UK think.

Do you realy think no decision has been made about the Olypics already? The announcement in September is for media consumption.

I wonder? Is Golf an Olympic sport?:D

papa smurf 22-02-2017 21:46
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35887077)
If he's doing such a cracking job then it's up to the people of the USA to re-elect him no matter what we in the UK think.

Do you realy think no decision has been made about the Olypics already? The announcement in September is for media consumption.

I wonder? Is Golf an Olympic sport?:D



i wonder if moaning about trump will be one :)

pip08456 22-02-2017 21:49
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35887080)
[/B]

i wonder if moaning about trump will be one :)
No, Luvvie Liberals would win that hands down so no competition.:D

1andrew1 22-02-2017 22:14
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35887077)
If he's doing such a cracking job then it's up to the people of the USA to re-elect him no matter what we in the UK think.

Do you realy think no decision has been made about the Olypics already? The announcement in September is for media consumption.

I wonder? Is Golf an Olympic sport?:D
Yes, Golf is an Olympic sport. ;)

A provisional decision for the Olympics may have been made. But I doubt it's any more than that with all potential cities having their issues at the moment.

Arthurgray50@blu 22-02-2017 23:27
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Please remember that Trump thinks that running America is like one of his businesses. Most of Americans cannot stand him.

An when this Immigration things comes out - he will be hated more

passingbat 23-02-2017 00:12
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35887057)
There is a difference between how the motivations and agendas of several different people end up creating a system in which certain people gain more than others and a coordinated effort where all these people are of the same mind. Does the world seem especially ordered and going to plan?

If it was then how did Brexit happen? Trump? Or Hollande in France? All of these people and rig world markets and events but not an election?

There is little evidence that governments or supranational organisations have the competence to pull this all off.
It is the preparatory groundwork that is being done at this point in time. Examples being:

Homogenisation of nation states' identity by mass immigration of various cultures.

Bringing in international laws by the back door that subject a nation's own laws to international law courts. the two main vehicles for this are multinational trade deals (TPP etc.) and multinational climate change laws.

Homogenising religion through the Multi-faith religion movement. Every religion has the right to follow any god that they believe in. But to say that all faiths lead to the same god is nonsense.

Global government will come eventually, via ways that we might not expect. And not in the form the elites are expecting; they are just being used to do the preparatory ground work.. Brexit and Trump have just added a very welcomed pause to the globalisation process.

---------- Post added at 00:12 ---------- Previous post was at 00:04 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35887095)
An when this Immigration things comes out - he will be hated more

His stance on immigration is one of the things that got him elected.


Did you not see the reference earlier in the thread to a European poll that said the majority supported Trumps stance on immigration?

martyh 23-02-2017 07:00
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887053)
So true. He was elected by the method that the US have set up to elect a President. End of story.


Sadly liberals don't like the results of a democratic vote that they don't agree with, especially ones that upset their politically correct liberal agenda.


Brexit and the Trump vote demonstrate this admirably.
You do realise that if people had not campaigned against a democratic vote then we would not be leaving the EU ,so by your logic you can thank the liberals for Brexit .As part of the democratic process people will continue to voice dissent against Trump and any other politician that was democratically elected ,that is the very definition of democracy

---------- Post added at 07:00 ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887101)

His stance on immigration is one of the things that got him elected.


Did you not see the reference earlier in the thread to a European poll that said the majority supported Trumps stance on immigration?
I suspect most of the people who elected him assumed he would show some common sense and apply some form of logic to the subject instead of simply issuing orders like a dictator

pip08456 23-02-2017 07:54
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887108)
You do realise that if people had not campaigned against a democratic vote then we would not be leaving the EU ,so by your logic you can thank the liberals for Brexit .As part of the democratic process people will continue to voice dissent against Trump and any other politician that was democratically elected ,that is the very definition of democracy[COLOR="Silver"]
You lost me there martyh, I can't recall any previous democratic vote for remaining in the EU or any compaigns against that fictional vote.

I do recall a Labour Government back in the 70's being elected on a manefesto of taking us out of the EEC, changing tack to remain in and like the recent referendum blatantly lying with false information. Is this the demorcratic vote you are referring to?

1andrew1 23-02-2017 08:09
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887108)
I suspect most of the people who elected him assumed he would show some common sense and apply some form of logic to the subject instead of simply issuing orders like a dictator
I think you're right. Voters in his own country and people overseas may well like his policies but if he lacks the political skills to implement them (eg the travel ban) and speaks in poorly-constructed sentences so that the world misunderstands him (eg Sweden claims) and blames the proper checks and balances (press and judges) then they will rightly criticise him.
As Matthew Norman demonstrated yesterday in The Independent, Jeremy Corbyn and Donald Trump are indeed cut from the same cloth.

---------- Post added at 08:09 ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35887114)
I do recall a Labour Government back in the 70's being elected on a manefesto of taking us out of the EEC, changing tack to remain in
Just when I'd given up all hope of Theresa seeing sense, you throw me a lifeline. Thanks Pip! :D

passingbat 23-02-2017 09:28
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887108)



I suspect most of the people who elected him assumed he would show some common sense and apply some form of logic to the subject instead of simply issuing orders like a dictator

No, the people who voted for him, believed in his policies and believed he would enact as President, what he said he would do on the campaign trail. The temporary travel ban was no surprise to them.

1andrew1 23-02-2017 12:21
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887133)
No, the people who voted for him, believed in his policies and believed he would enact as President, what he said he would do on the campaign trail. The temporary travel ban was no surprise to them.
Hillary not being behind bars and globalist Goldman Sachs appointees in the White House were though.

nomadking 23-02-2017 13:21
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887108)
You do realise that if people had not campaigned against a democratic vote then we would not be leaving the EU ,so by your logic you can thank the liberals for Brexit .As part of the democratic process people will continue to voice dissent against Trump and any other politician that was democratically elected ,that is the very definition of democracy

---------- Post added at 07:00 ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 ----------



I suspect most of the people who elected him assumed he would show some common sense and apply some form of logic to the subject instead of simply issuing orders like a dictator
The law allows him to issue executive orders. There are Visa waiver restrictions just for visiting certain countries. They were put in place more than a year ago by Senate, Congress, and by Obama/ and all legal and not discriminatory for some mysterious reason.

Quote:
Recently, the United States updated its policy on visa waiver programs regarding visitors who had a second citizenship in Iran, Iraq, Syria and Sudan - or who had visited those countries within the last five years.
Such individuals must now apply for a visa instead.

Pierre 23-02-2017 13:54
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887067)
Never even thought about this but it makes sense.

Donald Trump will lose Los Angeles the 2024 Olympics, say US gold medallists

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/o...-a7592131.html
The "travel ban" was/is only for 90 days.

Hugh 23-02-2017 14:09
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35887164)
The "travel ban" was/is only for 90 days.
Quote:
It brings in a suspension of the US Refugee Admissions Programme for 120 days

There is also an indefinite ban on Syrian refugees

And anyone arriving from seven Muslim-majority countries - Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Yemen - faces a 90-day visa suspension. Some visa categories, such as diplomats and the UN, are not included in the suspension
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38781302

passingbat 23-02-2017 15:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887154)
Hillary not being behind bars and globalist Goldman Sachs appointees in the White House were though.

Didn't think you believed in Globalists, Andrew ;)

Yep, Goldman Sachs appointees in the WH was a surprise to me. I assume he keeps them on a short leash and feeds them chunks of George Soros news every now and then to keep them calm ;) :D

Goldman Sachs will have some very clever guys working for them. Providing they are not following the GS company agenda of globalism, I guess Trump thinks he can harness their expertise. If Trump hadn't been so vocal about his unequivocal belief in Sovereign state nations, then there would be serious cause for concern

Goldman Sachs have representatives at Bilderberg meetings. Our very own Canadian import, Mark Carney attended Bilderberg meetings before fellow Bilderberg attendees, Dave and Georgie Boy appointed him Governor of the Bank of England.

I was with those Brexiteers who said he should have been replaced after the Referendum. He seems to be making right noises now, but personally, I do not trust him.

As regards to Hillary, I think there should have been an investigation, and if guilty, appropriate action should have been taken.

It looks as if Trump has taken a more magnanimous view and decided not to go down that route, and I can see the merit in that.

---------- Post added at 15:44 ---------- Previous post was at 15:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887067)
Never even thought about this but it makes sense.

Donald Trump will lose Los Angeles the 2024 Olympics, say US gold medallists

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/o...-a7592131.html

Oh gosh! How silly could I be! The hosting of the Olympics is far more important than the security of the Nation.... :shocked:

martyh 23-02-2017 17:58
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35887114)
You lost me there martyh, I can't recall any previous democratic vote for remaining in the EU or any compaigns against that fictional vote.

I do recall a Labour Government back in the 70's being elected on a manefesto of taking us out of the EEC, changing tack to remain in and like the recent referendum blatantly lying with false information. Is this the demorcratic vote you are referring to?
we had a referendum in 1975 and the result was to remain in the EEC as the EU was known then .A lot of posters are constantly banging on about respecting the result of the democratic process so by that logic we would not have had a second referendum .If people campaign or voice dissent against a democratic decision that is not disrespect for the decision ,that is democracy in action

---------- Post added at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35887160)
The law allows him to issue executive orders. There are Visa waiver restrictions just for visiting certain countries. They were put in place more than a year ago by Senate, Congress, and by Obama/ and all legal and not discriminatory for some mysterious reason.
Yes it does but Trump and the republicans absolutely slated Obama for using EO's ,they called him Emperor Obama and denounced the use of EOs as a threat to constitutional governance and i seem to remember one of Obama's EOs on immigration being overturned by the courts.Trump is nothing but a hypocrite and should practice what he and his party preached to Obama

nomadking 23-02-2017 18:09
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887202)
Yes it does but Trump and the republicans absolutely slated Obama for using EO's ,they called him Emperor Obama and denounced the use of EOs as a threat to constitutional governance and i seem to remember one of Obama's EOs on immigration being overturned by the courts.Trump is nothing but a hypocrite and should practice what he and his party preached to Obama
The law allows him to issue an executive order on this matter. The issue is allegedly one of discrimination. Either both laws are discriminatory or neither is.

martyh 23-02-2017 18:58
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35887208)
The law allows him to issue an executive order on this matter. The issue is allegedly one of discrimination. Either both laws are discriminatory or neither is.
I was pointing out the hypocrisy of trump and the republican party

Hugh 23-02-2017 19:49
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35887208)
The law allows him to issue an executive order on this matter. The issue is allegedly one of discrimination. Either both laws are discriminatory or neither is.
The Obama EO overturned by the Federal District Court was one that allowed 5 million immigrants illegally resident in the USA to stay in the country (the case was brought by Texas and 20 other States).

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/23/po...supreme-court/

The Supreme Court dead-locked on it, so the lower court ruling stood.

Kursk 23-02-2017 19:50
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887202)
we had a referendum in 1975 and the result was to remain in the EEC as the EU was known then .A lot of posters are constantly banging on about respecting the result of the democratic process so by that logic we would not have had a second referendum .If people campaign or voice dissent against a democratic decision that is not disrespect for the decision ,that is democracy in action
So you see no difference between being part of a trade partnership with half a dozen members (EEC) to being part of a much larger, sovereignty-stealing bloc (EU) comprised of, inter alia, a majority of countries with much less to contribute than the UK?

The second referendum clearly acknowledged sufficient difference between the EEC and EU.

Pierre 23-02-2017 21:46
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35887169)
Alright 120 then, still not a long time, certainly not going to impact the olympics

Hugh 23-02-2017 21:48
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35887241)
Alright 120 then, still not a long time, certainly not going to impact the olympics
Quote:
There is also an indefinite ban on Syrian refugees

Pierre 23-02-2017 22:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887202)
we had a referendum in 1975 and the result was to remain in the EEC as the EU was known then .A lot of posters are constantly banging on about respecting the result of the democratic process so by that logic we would not have had a second referendum .If people campaign or voice dissent against a democratic decision that is not disrespect for the decision ,that is democracy in action
That is complete bollocks and once again you prove to us all you have no clue.

The EEC that we joined was a trading block, a free market.

It was not a political body.

There have been many treaties since then that moved the EEC towards EU that we had no say in. The one I Remember was the Maastricht treaty which I think gave the EU state powers, for want of a better term. We had no say. Ireland had a referendum and voted against it. Then had to have another one until they got to the right result.

Just get your facts rights and stop posting crap.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

Quote:
There is also an indefinite ban on Syrian refugees
Wise.

nomadking 23-02-2017 22:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35887220)
The Obama EO overturned by the Federal District Court was one that allowed 5 million immigrants illegally resident in the USA to stay in the country (the case was brought by Texas and 20 other States).

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/23/po...supreme-court/

The Supreme Court dead-locked on it, so the lower court ruling stood.
The Obama one I'm on about is the change to the visa waiver scheme. That is still in place. It applies to anybody trying to use the visa waiver scheme, who has visited the named countries since March 2011,

Hugh 23-02-2017 22:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35887246)
The Obama one I'm on about is the change to the visa waiver scheme. That is still in place. It applies to anybody trying to use the visa waiver scheme, who has visited the named countries since March 2011,
You appear to be confusing a ban with having to apply for a visa...

And they were implemented by due process, review, and Congressional oversight, not by EO.

pip08456 24-02-2017 02:17
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Not being conversant with US law and their consitution I don't know if this is a real threat to Trump.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/2/1...llify-Election

Seems plausible or it might just end up like the Brexit court cases have so far.

Mick 24-02-2017 03:24
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35887265)
Not being conversant with US law and their consitution I don't know if this is a real threat to Trump.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/2/1...llify-Election

Seems plausible or it might just end up like the Brexit court cases have so far.
There is nothing in US Constitution for reelections or nullify the entire US Election result.

Only way to remove a president is Impeach. Impeachment only removes individual(s) if they have committed serious offences or misdemeanours, but the removal of the entire Republican ticket, it just won't happen.

martyh 24-02-2017 07:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35887244)
That is complete bollocks and once again you prove to us all you have no clue.

The EEC that we joined was a trading block, a free market.

It was not a political body.

There have been many treaties since then that moved the EEC towards EU that we had no say in. The one I Remember was the Maastricht treaty which I think gave the EU state powers, for want of a better term. We had no say. Ireland had a referendum and voted against it. Then had to have another one until they got to the right result.

Just get your facts rights and stop posting crap.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------



Wise.
You need to stop with the hostility towards people that don't agree with you

The point i made to Passingbat in reply to his "Sadly liberals don't like the results of a democratic vote that they don't agree with, especially ones that upset their politically correct liberal agenda."comment was that we already had a democratic vote in 1975 and the reason why we have Brexit is because people didn't accept it and wanted change .


Quote:
The EEC that we joined was a trading block, a free market.

It was not a political body.
That is completely wrong the EEC was always intended to be a political body from its inception in 1952

nomadking 24-02-2017 07:25
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35887249)
You appear to be confusing a ban with having to apply for a visa...

And they were implemented by due process, review, and Congressional oversight, not by EO.
Makes no difference whether by EO or not. The underlying aspect of how which countries are affected remains the SAME. The Judges didn't say no because it was an EO, but because of the nonsense about discrimination. Whatever criteria you use would always involve affecting certain group(s) more than others. It would be impossible to come up with a hypothetical case that wouldn't.

The EO is a temporary measure to stop people rushing in before any tougher new measures are introduced and those WILL through the full legislative route of Congress etc.

passingbat 24-02-2017 08:02
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887276)

That is completely wrong the EEC was always intended to be a political body from its inception in 1952

That's true. But those intentions were kept well hidden from Joe Public. So we can add deception as another massive reason to dump membership of the federal states of Europe.

Pierre 24-02-2017 08:56
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887276)
You need to stop with the hostility towards people that don't agree with you
I'm just hostile to people that post tripe.

Quote:
The point i made to Passingbat in reply to his "Sadly liberals don't like the results of a democratic vote that they don't agree with, especially ones that upset their politically correct liberal agenda."comment was that we already had a democratic vote in 1975 and the reason why we have Brexit is because people didn't accept it and wanted change .
But that's tripe and you know it.

The EU as it is today is nothing like what was put to the British public in the guise of the EEC.

We should have had several referendums along the way but we were denied them.

Quote:
That is completely wrong the EEC was always intended to be a political body from its inception in 1952
maybe in Brussels and Strasbourg, but it wasn't divulged to the UK public at the time. At no point during EEC vote did they say, "oh yes and our ultimate aim is to create a European superstate"

Your entire argument is completely fallacious.

Hugh 24-02-2017 09:57
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36367246
Quote:
A common complaint from those who voted to remain in the EEC in 1975 is that they were hoodwinked - they thought they were voting for a trading arrangement but ended up with a bossy "superstate".

This is not entirely true. Sovereignty - the ability to run our own affairs - was very much an issue in the 1975 referendum.

Enoch Powell, the maverick right wing Tory who had just become an Ulster Unionist MP, and left wing Labour cabinet minister Tony Benn - the loudest voices in the Out campaign - talked endlessly about it.

In its leaflet to voters, the Out campaign warned that the Common Market "sets out by stages to merge Britain with France, Germany, Italy and other countries into a single nation," in which Britain would be a "mere province".

The In campaign openly acknowledged that being a member of the EEC involved "pooling" sovereignty with the eight other nations who were members at the time.

heero_yuy 24-02-2017 10:14
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
But, sorry to stray from topic:

Quote:
As the book extensively documented, the two prime ministers who took us into “Europe”, Harold Macmillan and Edward Heath, were both made fully aware that the “Common Market” was only ever intended to be a front to the project’s real, long-term political intentions. But in 1961 Macmillan told his Cabinet how vital it was that this must be kept out of view. The deal must be sold to the British people as no more than an “economic arrangement”, affecting no more than trade and jobs – as was faithfully echoed by Heath in 1971.
Linky

Pierre 24-02-2017 12:24
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
I think we're straying into the wrong thread, best keep it on Trump.

passingbat 24-02-2017 13:55
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35887299)
But, sorry to stray from topic:



Linky

Good find.


In a good number of ways, Brexit and Trump's victory are linked. Immigration, control of borders, depletion of manufacturing, globalism leaving normal working people behind, distrust of the political establishment etc.


Sovereignty was an issue for Brexit, but not in such an obvious way for the USA, but TPP was actually a back door erosion of Sovereignty for the USA, which Trump was against.


So it is not a surprise that some Brexit references are relevant.


The main difference, that happened in the USA elections, but not in the Brexit referendum, was the large vote for Trump from the Evangelical Christians, who decided to look past the man, and vote for policies, which promised a turn in direction from the morally liberal views of Obama and Clinton. Also, Trump's support for Israel was a big factor in their choice of candidate.

Osem 24-02-2017 14:02
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887284)
That's true. But those intentions were kept well hidden from Joe Public. So we can add deception as another massive reason to dump membership of the federal states of Europe.
Correct. The common market was sold to us as a trading club amongst a group of northern European nations not a political vehicle dedicated to the creation of a single state embracing numerous economically and culturally diverse nations.

Just to get back on topice, not ven the most venomous Trump hater can accuse him of being responsible for any of it however. :D

Mr Banana 24-02-2017 22:51
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Wonder what Trump will tweet about this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39072816

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...s_volumes.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...063319878.html

Hugh 24-02-2017 22:59
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Probably as much as he tweeted about this...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-canada-deaths

Pierre 25-02-2017 06:35
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Does he have to comment on every murder in the USA?

Mr Banana 25-02-2017 07:24
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35887383)
Does he have to comment on every murder in the USA?
No but if it was an American was murdered by an Indian I reckon he would be bleeting on about judges blocking his executive order.

If this site is anything to go by it sometimes feels like Trump supporters have lost sight of right and wrong, if that same attitude applies in the States, the future is very bleak.

heero_yuy 25-02-2017 07:39
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
The White House has blocked several major news outlets from covering its daily press briefing without any explanation.

White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer on Friday hand selected news outlets to participate in an off-camera “gaggle” with reporters inside his West Wing office instead of the James S Brady Press Briefing Room.

The news outlets blocked from the press briefing include organisations who President Trump has criticised by name. CNN, BBC, The New York Times, LA Times, New York Daily News, BuzzFeed, The Hill, and the Daily Mail, were among the news outlets barred from the gathering.
Linky

Well if you're anti-Trump you get dumped. :D

Mr Banana 25-02-2017 10:21
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35887387)
Linky

Well if you're anti-Trump you get dumped. :D
Looks like it backfired on them as hardly anyone turned up. Starting to look like free speech is a thing of the past in the USA or is this the start of a dictatorship?

I do agree with Trump when he says people should not be able to print stories without naming sources - should be something that happens in this country as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39088770

Maggy 25-02-2017 11:27
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
It's not like it will make a difference..

Mr Banana 25-02-2017 11:51
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35887404)
It's not like it will make a difference..
In what way Maggie?

Hugh 25-02-2017 13:30
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35887395)
Looks like it backfired on them as hardly anyone turned up. Starting to look like free speech is a thing of the past in the USA or is this the start of a dictatorship?

I do agree with Trump when he says people should not be able to print stories without naming sources - should be something that happens in this country as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39088770
Consistency is all...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...433794?lang=en
Quote:
An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud.
And just yesterday....

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/t...c-sources.html
Quote:
WASHINGTON – President Donald Trump escalated his criticism of the news media Friday, taking direct aim this time at the use of anonymous sources. Reporters “shouldn’t be allowed to use sources unless they use somebody’s name,” he declared, just hours after members of his own staff held a press briefing and refused to allow their names to be used.

Mick 25-02-2017 13:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35887424)
Only Trump was not reporter when he tweeted that and at a time when his political ambitions were only a dream. So has nothing whatsoever to do with consistency.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35887395)
Looks like it backfired on them as hardly anyone turned up. Starting to look like free speech is a thing of the past in the USA or is this the start of a dictatorship?

I do agree with Trump when he says people should not be able to print stories without naming sources - should be something that happens in this country as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39088770
I'd ban media that only operated in a negatively biased and liberal way. Nothing to do with dictatorship.

Kursk 25-02-2017 16:49
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35887427)
I'd ban media that only operated in a negatively biased and liberal way. Nothing to do with dictatorship.
Me too, especially those pompous brats at the BBC. If their bias continues, the compulsory requirement to financially support them will become even more of an issue.

Hugh 25-02-2017 19:14
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35887427)
Only Trump was not reporter when he tweeted that and at a time when his political ambitions were only a dream. So has nothing whatsoever to do with consistency.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:45 ----------



I'd ban media that only operated in a negatively biased and liberal way. Nothing to do with dictatorship.
What about the members of his staff yesterday?

Mick 25-02-2017 19:23
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35887465)
What about the members of his staff yesterday?
What about them? What happened yesterday ? Whilst I enjoy highlighting hypocrisy, when it comes to the over the top hysteria, when it comes to Trump, but believe it or not, I don't actually follow what goes on day to day, in the Trump camp. I got more pressing issues over this side of the pond that actually matter.

Pierre 25-02-2017 19:24
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35887384)
No but if it was an American was murdered by an Indian I reckon he would be bleeting on about judges blocking his executive order.
I was under the impression most native Americans were already in America.

Quote:
If this site is anything to go by it sometimes feels like Trump supporters have lost sight of right and wrong, if that same attitude applies in the States, the future is very bleak.
No, I don't think there are any Trump "supporters" on this site. I think there are many free thinkers that refuse to jump on the band wagon, and careful not to just take their news from anti-Trump sources and are open to balanced reporting.

passingbat 25-02-2017 23:16
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Why Brexit and Trump are so important. Standing for the Nation state against the globalist agenda.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AQozggVlfI

Mr Banana 26-02-2017 07:58
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35887468)
I was under the impression most native Americans were already in America.



No, I don't think there are any Trump "supporters" on this site. I think there are many free thinkers that refuse to jump on the band wagon, and careful not to just take their news from anti-Trump sources and are open to balanced reporting.
It wasn't a Native American, it was a guy from India, if you were trying to make a joke when someone has lost their life, it's in very poor taste.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/ka...-a7599201.html

martyh 26-02-2017 10:29
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
It would appear that Trump has bottled it .He has refused to attend the annual White House Correspondents' Association dinner ,an event that traditionally includes a light hearted 'roast' of the sitting president .It would appear that despite attending the dinner several times in the past and saying he loves it Trumps sense of humour does not extend to people making fun of him

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39093434

ianch99 26-02-2017 15:35
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35887449)
Me too, especially those pompous brats at the BBC. If their bias continues, the compulsory requirement to financially support them will become even more of an issue.
Well, at least you both admit you are against liberal thinking:

Quote:
liberal: willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.
I guess we have known this for a while now ..

pip08456 26-02-2017 15:42
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35887523)
Well, at least you both admit you are against liberal thinking:
Unfortunately the insanity of "political correctness" has changed that definition.

papa smurf 26-02-2017 15:43
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
A libtard wants to live in a fantasy world (in which life is the way that they WISH IT WAS) as opposed to dealing with life the way it actually is.

Mick 26-02-2017 17:39
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35887525)
Unfortunately the insanity of "political correctness" has changed that definition.
Correct, liberal now has new meanings, let's start with not accepting democracy.

ianch99 26-02-2017 19:51
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35887553)
Correct, liberal now has new meanings, let's start with not accepting democracy.
In your mind, yes, In reality, no.

If you fail to accept that anyone who disagrees with you can have a valid point of view then you will see, like Trump does, enemies all around. What is, to most objective observers, a broad church of media opinion is to Trump and his alt-right followers a conspiracy of lies and fabrication.

For God's sake, he even banned the Daily Mail from the informal press briefing!

When you get to this point in your perception of reality, then yes, you will see life through a very different lens. This allows you to justify many things that range from just bad manners to opinions that are, on a number of levels, plain disturbing.

Trump and more importantly Bannon are using excuses of media bias, political correctness, fear of Muslims, globalisation, etc. to push through an agenda that would be, to people voting in past elections, an anametha.

We are at a point where the US citizens either allow the alt-right, protectionist & nationalist agenda to play out with some very alarming scenarios or they try and engage through peaceful protest together with the gradual erosion of Republican majority in the House in the 2018 elections and try to reduce and/or stop some of the more damaging policies that could be put forward.

Let's hope that they are successful since what Trump does in the US *will* impact us and the rest of the world.

1andrew1 26-02-2017 20:04
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35887573)
In your mind, yes, In reality, no.

If you fail to accept that anyone who disagrees with you can have a valid point of view then you will see, like Trump does, enemies all around. What is, to most objective observers, a broad church of media opinion is to Trump and his alt-right followers a conspiracy of lies and fabrication.

For God's sake, he even banned the Daily Mail from the informal press briefing!

When you get to this point in your perception of reality, then yes, you will see life through a very different lens. This allows you to justify many things that range from just bad manners to opinions that are, on a number of levels, plain disturbing.

Trump and more importantly Bannon are using excuses of media bias, political correctness, fear of Muslims, globalisation, etc. to push through an agenda that would be, to people voting in past elections, an anametha.

We are at a point where the US citizens either allow the alt-right, protectionist & nationalist agenda to play out with some very alarming scenarios or they try and engage through peaceful protest together with the gradual erosion of Republican majority in the House in the 2018 elections and try to reduce and/or stop some of the more damaging policies that could be put forward.

Let's hope that they are successful since what Trump does in the US *will* impact us and the rest of the world.
A very thoughtful post, thanks for summarising things so well.

RizzyKing 26-02-2017 20:37
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
There are aspects of trump that worry me but I'm also worried by the fact so many people all over the west are being left behind in this headlong globalist\new liberal movement that being honest benefits a very few and damages a hell of a lot more. Trump and brexit are the clearest signs of this and they are the start not the end i think unless there is acceptence by the globalists that things have gone too fast in a bad direction in a decade we will look back to now as a good time. No cause or system that leaves so many behind should be supported or pursued, guess we will see if the message is getting through or things have to continue getting worse.

Pierre 26-02-2017 22:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
It wasn't a Native American, it was a guy from India, if you were trying to make a joke when someone has lost their life, it's in very poor taste.
Never stopped Frankie Boyle or other left leaning comics when it suits them.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887494)
It would appear that Trump has bottled it .He has refused to attend the annual White House Correspondents' Association dinner ,an event that traditionally includes a light hearted 'roast' of the sitting president .It would appear that despite attending the dinner several times in the past and saying he loves it Trumps sense of humour does not extend to people making fun of him

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39093434
Except I doubt it would be very" light hearted"

Ramrod 26-02-2017 22:45
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35887297)
The BBC (British Bullsh*t Corporation) would claim that. We were not told of the true and full extent of the EECs political aims at that time, It was sold to us as a purely trade membership.

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35887553)
Correct, liberal now has new meanings, let's start with not accepting democracy.
The countless demonstrations, many riots and the visceral outpouring of toddler grade angst and frustration bear testimony to that statement :D

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887574)
A very thoughtful post, thanks for summarising things so well.
In your echo chamber ;)

---------- Post added at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35887573)
If you fail to accept that anyone who disagrees with you can have a valid point of view
That is amazingly blind. Pie (one of your lefty friends) tells it like it is link. You liberals really can't accept liability for closing down debate, can you? :dozey:

Osem 26-02-2017 22:51
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35887553)
Correct, liberal now has new meanings, let's start with not accepting democracy.
I think it's called selective liberalism. They're liberal when it suits and quite the opposite when they feel like it.

1andrew1 26-02-2017 23:56
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35887577)
There are aspects of trump that worry me...
What aspects of Trump worry you?

---------- Post added at 23:56 ---------- Previous post was at 23:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887479)
Why Brexit and Trump are so important. Standing for the Nation state against the globalist agenda.
Yet more evidence of Trump's globalist alignment is shown by the appointment of Bilderberg Committee Member Peter Thiel as a key adviser to Donald Trump.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7600471.html
http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/st...committee.html

RizzyKing 27-02-2017 01:13
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Main aspect of concern is his single minded way of viewing things that can be an asset in business and a detriment in the political world and trump needs to either transition faster or slow down. I don't think he's a racist but he isn't very good at framing his views in the political way we have got used too and i think that's his biggest problem at the minute he's continuing to behave as he did in business and it doesn't work on the political leader stage he is now on and his frustration may be coming from the fact he's been surrounded by people in business that are familiar with him but now he is dealing in another type of world and it's creating the issue's we see.

As much as many of us loathe the political class we have now we have gotten used to the polished slick presentation of it and trump isn't accustomed to dealing with the level of scrutiny he now finds himself dealing with.

Mr Banana 27-02-2017 07:42
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35887584)
Never stopped Frankie Boyle or other left leaning comics when it suits them.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------



Except I doubt it would be very" light hearted"
Not sure why you would want to be seen in a similar vein to Boyle, the bloke is a turd in my opinion. (And that's my polite word for him)

passingbat 27-02-2017 09:09
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887596)
Yet more evidence of Trump's globalist alignment

As I've said previously, that trump has some Goldman Sachs representatives was a concern. This would be in the same category.

But to infer that Trump is a Globalist is nonsense. It was obvious from the get-go that the BBC were very anti Trump, so I decided to find out what Trump was actually saying, to make up my own mind on his policies.

His campaign speeches, and his speeches since then are readily available on Youtube, of which I watched a good number of in full.

No one listening to those speeches could get even a glint of a globalist agenda. His emphasis on one to one trade deals is a good example. One of the main ways globalism is 'back-doored' is multinational trade deals. which bring multinational laws with them. Trump is against those deals.

I loved this bit from his CPAC speech (44 minutes in) re globalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXWBcDz3Y68


Trust me, I will be monitoring President Trump. He has made a lot of promises, and I'm as keen as anyone to make sure he keeps them. The only policy areas I don't have an opinion on is health care and taxation, simply because I don't know enough about the USA in these areas. That still leaves me a lot to monitor though.

1andrew1 27-02-2017 10:53
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887621)
As I've said previously, that trump has some Goldman Sachs representatives was a concern. This would be in the same category.

But to infer that Trump is a Globalist is nonsense. It was obvious from the get-go that the BBC were very anti Trump, so I decided to find out what Trump was actually saying, to make up my own mind on his policies.

His campaign speeches, and his speeches since then are readily available on Youtube, of which I watched a good number of in full.

No one listening to those speeches could get even a glint of a globalist agenda. His emphasis on one to one trade deals is a good example. One of the main ways globalism is 'back-doored' is multinational trade deals. which bring multinational laws with them. Trump is against those deals.

I loved this bit from his CPAC speech (44 minutes in) re globalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXWBcDz3Y68

Trust me, I will be monitoring President Trump. He has made a lot of promises, and I'm as keen as anyone to make sure he keeps them. The only policy areas I don't have an opinion on is health care and taxation, simply because I don't know enough about the USA in these areas. That still leaves me a lot to monitor though.
In respect of globalisation, you need to judge him from his actions like his appointees and not his speeches. Lke most politicians, he has a habit of telling audiences what they want to hear.

His appointment of McMaster as national security adviser is a great move, this is a very interesting read. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...curity-adviser

passingbat 27-02-2017 11:51
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887634)
In respect of globalisation, you need to judge him from his actions like his appointees and not his speeches. Lke most politicians, he has a habit of telling audiences what they want to hear.

His appointment of McMaster as national security adviser is a great move, this is a very interesting read. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...curity-adviser

You are determined to convince people that Trump is bad and Brexit is bad. That is your right to do so.

But other people will draw own conclusions. I've done my research and I can see no evidence of Trump taking a globalist stance; quite the opposite; he believes in Sovereign Nations. And he's the boss. His policy will be what he said in his speeches.

Steve Bannon confirmed that in his CPAC speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsTh...kv64yhGbdSD37f

1andrew1 27-02-2017 12:07
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887643)
You are determined to convince people that Trump is bad and Brexit is bad. That is your right to do so.

But other people will draw own conclusions. I've done my research and I can see no evidence of Trump taking a globalist stance; quite the opposite; he believes in Sovereign Nations. And he's the boss. His policy will be what he said in his speeches.

Steve Bannon confirmed that in his CPAC speech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsTh...kv64yhGbdSD37f
I've just commended Trump on one of his actions. I'm interested in discussing him. I'm not saying being anti-globalist is wrong or right, I'm just pointing out his many globalist connections and advisers.

ianch99 27-02-2017 12:31
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35887589)
The BBC (British Bullsh*t Corporation) would claim that. We were not told of the true and full extent of the EECs political aims at that time, It was sold to us as a purely trade membership.

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:32 ----------

The countless demonstrations, many riots and the visceral outpouring of toddler grade angst and frustration bear testimony to that statement :D

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

In your echo chamber ;)

---------- Post added at 22:45 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------

 That is amazingly blind. Pie (one of your lefty friends) tells it like it is link. You liberals really can't accept liability for closing down debate, can you? :dozey:
Why are you so consistently hostile? Do you really want a forum where everyone just posts self-congratulatory right-wing opinions?

I am not sure how I have "closed down debate"? It seems that your attitude to different opnions is more aligned to this accusation.

As far as I can see Pie is not a real person, just a work of Satire. He is not my "friend" :) although I do agree (with "him") that Clinton was a monumental mistake and that Sanders was the best opponent for Trump.

Damien 27-02-2017 12:34
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887621)
But to infer that Trump is a Globalist is nonsense. It was obvious from the get-go that the BBC were very anti Trump, so I decided to find out what Trump was actually saying, to make up my own mind on his policies.
He certainly was anti-globalist in this campaign rhetoric. However is there much evidence of him taking that approach before then? He wasn't shy about outsourcing his products to Asian countries, rather than American ones, as a businessman. Now he has appointed bankers to senior positions. Surely if you believe these people are in cahoots then senior members of Goldman Sachs would be part of it.

As a sidenote I find it bizarre how quickly the right has become the cheerleaders for protectionism.

passingbat 27-02-2017 12:35
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887644)
. I'm interested in discussing him. .

I'm interested in discussing the policies he promised to implement.

Damien 27-02-2017 12:37
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35887651)
As far as I can see Pie is not a real person, just a work of Satire. He is not my "friend" :) although I do agree (with "him") that Clinton was a monumental mistake and that Sanders was the best opponent for Trump.
Pie is an idiot. His latest video blames Labour's electoral struggles on everyone but Corbyn. He is a hard-left 'comedian' who gets paid by RT (or did).

1andrew1 27-02-2017 12:57
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887653)
I'm interested in discussing the policies he promised to implement.
I'm interested in the whole lot - the people he appoints, his speeches, his policies, his relationships with Russia, China, the EU etc. It's a fascinating time for the World regardless of your political standpoint.

heero_yuy 27-02-2017 13:29
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Amuses me that with the Oscars faux pas dominating the headlines nobody is reporting any anti-Trump speeches by the luvvies. :D

Damien 27-02-2017 14:07
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35887670)
Amuses me that with the Oscars faux pas dominating the headlines nobody is reporting any anti-Trump speeches by the luvvies. :D
They didn't make that many in the end. The only real one was Kimmel have a joke at his expense at the start.

Mick 27-02-2017 14:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35887670)
Amuses me that with the Oscars faux pas dominating the headlines nobody is reporting any anti-Trump speeches by the luvvies. :D
It's about time that award show was scrapped, infact scrap them all. We don't need to listen to so called jumped up celebrities who stand on a platform that is meant to award for Arts and Entertainment but it's just another episode of their warped sense of political views, mainly liberal.

I laugh at their total hypocrisy. They call Trump on his border wall and his extreme vetting. But after they leave, to go to an after party, that only celebrities can attend, they have guards at the entrance with a list of who can enter, isn't this extreme vetting?

After the party, they will venture back home to their millionaire homes, with big Security Walls ALL around them. :rolleyes:

Celebrities are the biggest hypocrites!!!

passingbat 27-02-2017 14:28
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35887652)
He certainly was anti-globalist in this campaign rhetoric. However is there much evidence of him taking that approach before then? He wasn't shy about outsourcing his products to Asian countries, rather than American ones, as a businessman. Now he has appointed bankers to senior positions. Surely if you believe these people are in cahoots then senior members of Goldman Sachs would be part of it.

As a sidenote I find it bizarre how quickly the right has become the cheerleaders for protectionism.


I've already voiced my unease about Goldman Sachs representatives being involved in an earlier post, with relevant comments on it.


I don't see it as protectionism at this point in time. He's doing what any sensible US leader should do; bringing jobs back to the US, that greedy companies have outsourced to other countries to up their profits by using cheap labour. Once we leave the EU, Britain should do the same, wherever it can. Sadly UK governments don't have the same clout as the US does in this area. Also, we have different circumstances.

He has promised to do fair trade deals with other countries.

It's true that we need to monitor these trade deals,, especially, for us, the UK one. But speculating on them, before they even begin is pointless.

1andrew1 27-02-2017 14:39
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887684)
I've already voiced my unease about Goldman Sachs representatives being involved in an earlier post, with relevant comments on it.
I wonder if one of Trump's inner circle will change his views. Back in November, Trump adviser Gary Cohn, then Goldman Sachs president and chief operating officer explained why he employed people in Bangalore, “We hire people there because they work for cents on the dollar versus what people work for in the United States.”

passingbat 27-02-2017 14:51
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887686)
I wonder if one of Trump's inner circle will change his views. Back in November, Trump adviser Gary Cohn, then Goldman Sachs president and chief operating officer explained why he employed people in Bangalore, “We hire people there because they work for cents on the dollar versus what people work for in the United States.”

Exactly why I have concerns. But he is now working for a boss who's declared policies are against that sort of thing. He needs to obey his boss. These guys have expertise in financial markets. That expertise needs to be refocused to line up with Trump's policies.

Hugh 27-02-2017 22:31
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887688)
Exactly why I have concerns. But he is now working for a boss who's declared policies are against that sort of thing. He needs to obey his boss. These guys have expertise in financial markets. That expertise needs to be refocused to line up with Trump's policies.
His declared policies may be, but his actual action weren't.

Judge people by what they do, not just by what they say...

http://time.com/4465744/donald-trump...ented-workers/

http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/20...n-workers.html

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/28/news...reign-workers/

1andrew1 27-02-2017 22:45
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35887750)
His declared policies may be, but his actual action weren't.

Judge people by what they do, not just by what they say...

http://time.com/4465744/donald-trump...ented-workers/

http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/20...n-workers.html

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/28/news...reign-workers/
Good point. Some people have fallen into the trap of thinking that because Trump says some politically incorrect things, that he's not spinning and is genuine. As your evidence shows, he's spinning faster than Peter Mandelson's record player. But it will take a bit of time before everyone wakes up to this.

passingbat 28-02-2017 00:05
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35887750)
His declared policies may be, but his actual action weren't.

Judge people by what they do, not just by what they say...

http://time.com/4465744/donald-trump...ented-workers/

http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/20...n-workers.html

http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/28/news...reign-workers/

I'm prepared to judge him on whether he keeps to the promises he made in the election. Anyone who thinks Trump is free from past wrong doings is deluded.

But as far as I was concerned, the policies Trump was putting forward are essential to America. They were, in key areas, opposite to the policies that Obama pursued and Hillary would have taken further. Examples are:

Standing against globalism and upholding the sovereign nation state.
Strong borders and doing whatever is necessary to prevent radical Islamic terrorists entering the country.
Controlling Immigration
Taking definitive action against Mexican drug cartels (who also smuggle in ISIS terrorists)
Re-building US industry and the jobs attached to it, which had been outsourced to other countries for cheap labour reasons.
Trying to halt the liberal moral decline that had gone on under Obama and would have got worse under Hillary
His promise to sort out problems in the inner cities.
His intention to strengthen the military and increase support for Veterans.
His support for Israel
Draining the Washington swamp.
Rejecting multinational trade deals (back-door globalism, TPP. TTIP etc.)

Trump is an egotist and outspoken (clumsily at times). But I think in some ways you need someone 'full of himself' to drive through the above agenda.

Make no mistake, people who voted for him were fully aware of his faults (especially the Evangelical Christians) but decided that America needed so badly, the policies that Trump was advocating that they decided to look past the man himself.

Mick 28-02-2017 00:53
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35887752)
Good point. Some people have fallen into the trap of thinking that because Trump says some politically incorrect things, that he's not spinning and is genuine. As your evidence shows, he's spinning faster than Peter Mandelson's record player. But it will take a bit of time before everyone wakes up to this.
I think you get really confused with what is evidence and what is a just a newspaper or online story. Reported stories are not necessarily evidence.

Either way, no he is not spinning because Trump's immigration policy is rightfully targeting illegal immigrants who commit a crime, he is not going after every single illegal immigrant.

TheDaddy 28-02-2017 03:28
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887684)

He has promised to do fair trade deals with other countries.
Didn't the donald say the only deal he considers good is on in which he wins and everyone else loses, bodes well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887759)
Re-building US industry and the jobs attached to it, which had been outsourced to other countries for cheap labour reasons.

His intention to strengthen the military
Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the jobs lost have been lost to automation not outsourcing, how's he going to bring back jobs that never actually went and why does the military need strengthening, it's already the most powerful with enough nuclear weapons to blow the planet into tiny pieces, I'd suggest the last thing they need to do is start another arms race with the amount of debt they're already saddled with.

passingbat 28-02-2017 09:23
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35887767)
Didn't the donald say the only deal he considers good is on in which he wins and everyone else loses, bodes well.

He has used the term 'fair deal' many times. He is angry at the bad deals Obama did; maybe that's the context for the expression you quoted? I think I'm right in saying that he's already saved a few million dollars of the price of the Airforce one replacement.

Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the jobs lost have been lost to automation not outsourcing, how's he going to bring back jobs that never actually went and why does the military need strengthening, it's already the most powerful with enough nuclear weapons to blow the planet into tiny pieces, I'd suggest the last thing they need to do is start another arms race with the amount of debt they're already saddled with.

Some companies have out sourced factories to countries with cheap labour. He has convinced some of those companies to instead build those factories in the US


Around 30 minutes in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXWBcDz3Y68


If people think the world will be war free in the coming years, I believe they are mistaken. (and it will be nothing to do with Brexit, as David Cameron inferred)


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