Cable Forum - Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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OLD BOY

10-07-2017 20:15

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35907179)

The "crackdown on fiddling gits" should continue but not at the expense of those in genuine need. Making things harder for genuine claimants is not the way forward.

Unfortunately, those people who brazenly claim what they are not entitled to and go to the most extraordinary lengths to get it are the reason why genuine claimants have to go through a minefield to claim their entitlement.

denphone

10-07-2017 20:21

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35907179)

The "crackdown on fiddling gits" should continue but not at the expense of those in genuine need. Making things harder for genuine claimants is not the way forward.

+1

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:19 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35907184)

Just remember its a small minority that cheat the system just like other systems.

Osem	10-07-2017 21:52

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35907179)

The "crackdown on fiddling gits" should continue but not at the expense of those in genuine need. Making things harder for genuine claimants is not the way forward.

Sadly, when you have **** who'll go to extreme lengths to feign illness, exaggerate symptoms, lie about their assets/income, use fake documents/fake ID's etc. etc. I don't see any way in which they can be cracked down upon without in some way making life harder for the genuine.

One thing I would like to see is much harsher sentencing for those who selfishly set out to cheat the system. There should be no excuses for benefit fraud.

It is a small minority who cheat but that minority take a hell of a lot out of the system and just as other forms of fraud have increased when seen as an easy touch, so will benefit fraud unless the authorities get a lot tougher on it.

heero_yuy

11-07-2017 10:05

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35907209)

Like this one:

Quote:

A BINMAN claimed disability benefits while covering 50 MILES a week working for a council.

George Beacham, 68, fraudulently pocketed more than £45,000 of taxpayers money after claiming he was unable to walk more than two yards in 15 minutes.

George Beacham claims he has been unfairly treated by the courts after finding out he stole £45k in benefits

But he was actually earning up to £18,000-a-year working a 37-hour week for Lancashire city council as a refuse worker.
o be
According to the council website, binmen are required "To be physically fit and able to undertake heavy manual work”.

The married dad of one first started receiving Disability Living Allowance in June 1993 after suffering from ill health.

But when his condition improved in July 2002 he failed to notify the Department of Works and Pensions, resulting in him pocketing money he was not entitled to for 13 years until September 2015.

Source

Money that should have gone to a more deserving person.:mad:

papa smurf

11-07-2017 10:08

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35907188)

+1

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:19 ----------

Just remember its a small minority that cheat the system just like other systems.

or a small minority that get caught

denphone

11-07-2017 10:10

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35907265)

Like this one:

Source

Money that should have gone to a more deserving person.:mad:

Like l and others have said its a small minority who cheat the system and the full wrath of the law should be firmly thrown at them..

---------- Post added at 09:10 ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35907266)

or a small minority that get caught

Very educational l see you are this morning again.;)

papa smurf

11-07-2017 11:09

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

in yet another blow could this be an end to working cash in hand and claiming benefits ?
Taylor Review: UK should end cash-in-hand economy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40561807

cash jobs such as window cleaning and decorating were worth up to £6bn a year, much of it untaxed.

denphone

11-07-2017 11:15

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Saying it is one thing stopping it is another IMO.

papa smurf

11-07-2017 11:19

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35907287)

Saying it is one thing stopping it is another IMO.

ladder racks on mobility scooters gives it away ,not to mention all the mobility scooters parked outside the karate club .

denphone

11-07-2017 11:28

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35907288)

ladder racks on mobility scooters gives it away ,not to mention all the mobility scooters parked outside the karate club .

Mensa here we come...;)

Kursk

11-07-2017 12:47

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35907268)

Very educational l see you are this morning again.;)

Is it Yoda really you are Den? ;)

denphone

11-07-2017 13:01

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35907310)

Is it Yoda really you are Den? ;)

No just ordinary Joe Bloggs my emperor..;)

TheDaddy

11-07-2017 21:21

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35907313)

No just ordinary Joe Bloggs my emperor..;)

If you're yoda, Kursk is the emperor and I'm chewbacca (big and hairy) who is jar jar? :Yikes:

Kursk

12-07-2017 00:49

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35907413)

If you're yoda, Kursk is the emperor and I'm chewbacca (big and hairy) who is jar jar? :Yikes:

Not papa smurf; he's an ewok. As for Jar Jar, he was the most despised character of the series who had a penchant for sticking his tongue in places it didn't belong: I'm thinking Mr K fits the bill :p:

papa smurf

14-07-2017 12:48

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Four disabled con artists used blue badges to buy Jaguars, Bentleys and Audis in £1million scam

The plot exploited a law allowing disabled people to buy vehicles VAT free if they are adapted for personal use.

In the first case of its kind in Britain, Raymond Gordon, 57; Margaret Lunt, 68; Arthur Jackson, 62; and Martin Burke, 51, admitted conspiracy to evade VAT.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-used-10794741

Taf	14-07-2017 13:40

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35907785)

Four disabled con artists used blue badges to buy Jaguars, Bentleys and Audis in £1million scam

You can purchase, a motor vehicle VAT- free when all the following conditions are met:

the motor vehicle is supplied to a disabled person who normally uses a wheelchair to be mobile.

the vehicle is permanently and substantially adapted.

the adapted motor vehicle is for the domestic or personal use of the disabled wheelchair user, and the supplier has been given a completed declaration, form VAT1615A, which confirms eligibility.

Definition of ‘wheelchair’ and ‘wheelchair user’

In legal terms, a wheelchair is a chair on wheels for disabled people, which is either manually propelled or electrically powered. A mobility scooter is not a wheelchair for VAT purposes. A wheelchair user is any disabled person who normally uses a wheelchair in order to be mobile. A person who occasionally uses a wheelchair is not eligible.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-and-charities

Quote:

With effect from 1 April 2017, VAT relief is only allowable on one adapted vehicle, purchased (either outright or through a finance lease) for the personal use of the disabled wheelchair user, in a period of 3 years. This is known as the ‘3-year rule’.

If an individual or their nominated representative wishes to purchase additional adapted vehicles within any 3 year period, then they can do so but they must pay the standard rate of VAT on the purchase of any subsequent vehicle.

The supplier must inform HMRC when a vehicle is being requested to be sold VAT free. HMRC will check eligibilty and whether the purchaser has not had a VAT free vehicle in the preceeding 3 years.

Osem	14-07-2017 14:46

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Where there's a law there's a loophole sadly and the more complex these things become, the more loopholes and grey areas there are and the harder it is for the enforcing agencies to identify and prosecute it All benefit fraud is wrong but serious, calculating, benefit fraudsters are, IMHO, the lowest of the low and fully deserving of harsh punishment.

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:44 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35907265)

Like this one:

Source

Money that should have gone to a more deserving person.:mad:

Yup, people like him are the reason genuine claimants have to jump through more hoops. :mad:

Chrysalis

14-07-2017 23:27

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35906678)

A FB forum is full of people who were already on PIP at the higher levels being dropped to zero points by ATOS-Capita-DWP. Some fully win at tribunal, many don't. It's a lottery loaded against claimants, with rules being changed by the DWP to ensure more failures.

every time a benefit is rehauled, e.g. PIP or ESA, its done to achieve target claimants numbers (to save money), but of course is claimed otherwise.

The government having lost the earlier battle to clamp down further on PIP prior to the election, they now have a situation where PIP is still over their budget, and it will be targeted again I expect within 5 years.

It is disgusting, this country can afford it, but we have a manipulated population who simply refuse to pay for it and a government who doesnt believe it should be paid for.

The tories e.g. managed to find several billion to keep the DUP happy (1 billion funding for NI + cost of keeping pension triple lock). The money is always there, the problem is the will for it to be spent.

---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 22:21 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35906918)

If Channel 4 and others have no difficulty in exposing these people, how on earth can you come to the conclusion that this is not a widespread problem?

Are you saying you gullible and believe what the media tell you?

Remember that documentary about the family getting about 1k a week in housing benefit?

The DWP later revealed there was only 17 claimants in the entire country getting that sort of money, yet the press managed to still find one, 17 out of 10s of millions.

Its also been revealed likewise the benefit cap has a minimal affect on the DWP budget as a very small amount of people get anywhere near those figures in benefits. But of course the cap gained political points which was its purpose.

It seems you support the idea of making people entitled to help suffer just to try and stop very low amount of fraudsters. Its akin to shooting everyone in a town if one person in the town kills someone.

Yes benefit fraud is wrong, but its no worse than things like tax evasion. Both things are defrauding the government of money. Yet tax evasion I suggest is far more widespread, how common is it e.g. for someone self employed to not declare cash income?

denphone

15-07-2017 06:55

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35907869)

Yes benefit fraud is wrong, but its no worse than things like tax evasion. Both things are defrauding the government of money. Yet tax evasion I suggest is far more widespread, how common is it e.g. for someone self employed to not declare cash income?

Absolutely and no one on this forum would say otherwise.

---------- Post added at 05:53 ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35907869)

Yes benefit fraud is wrong, but its no worse than things like tax evasion. Both things are defrauding the government of money. Yet tax evasion I suggest is far more widespread, how common is it e.g. for someone self employed to not declare cash income?

Pretty much l would say and yet some of the same people who go on about benefit fraud are defrauding the system themselves...:(:td:

---------- Post added at 05:55 ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35907869)

The tories e.g. managed to find several billion to keep the DUP happy (1 billion funding for NI + cost of keeping pension triple lock). The money is always there, the problem is the will for it to be spent

That magic money tree again which the Tories claim is non existent.;)

nomadking

15-07-2017 08:42

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

17 in the whole country?
This is EIGHT just in the Westminster area.

Quote:

Westminster Council revealed to us that two households receive £1,950 and £1,750 a week respectively through the Local Housing Allowance.

Three others get the same amount as the Warsames - namely £1,600; while three families are on more than £1,500 a week.

From a FOI request from 2011 for JUST Westminster

Quote:

For all live claim types (excluding suspended) there are currently
6338 claims paying over £1000 (i.e over £250 pw) – including those paying over £2000 per month
and 1220 claims paying over £2000 (i.e. over £500 pw)

From DWP report: Housing Benefit caseload breakdown - March 2011

Quote:

For Nov 2010
160 were receiving more than £50,000/year.
11830 were receiving £20,000 or more/year.

Quote:

34,610 were £15,000-£20,000
128.960 were £10,000- £15,000
75% were £5,000 or less and a further 21% were £5,000-£10,000.

So were does the 17 come from?
From the figures for previous years it can be clearly seen that the problem arose from the Local Housing Allowance system introduced in 2008. In just 2 years the number even in the £25K-£30K band tripled. The problem was that for large houses, the sky was the limit. People were DELIBERATELY moving into expensive areas because they knew it would be all covered by the taxpayer.

Then there is this case which is beyond belief.
From an Upper Tribunal ruling where the guy WON a rehearing.:shocked:

Quote:

The context of this remark is evident from the papers and will be known to the parties. Briefly, however, it is relevant to the appellant’s case that he could not reasonably have been expected to realise he was being overpaid (per regulation 100 of the Housing Benefit Regulations 2006), when he was being paid in effect four times the level of his rent, because of his alleged belief that the “benefit cap” meant that he was entitled to a capped amount of £1000 regardless of his actual rent (see his email of 24 May 2011 on page 60)

In other words he was claiming and RECEIVING £1,000/week, even though his actual rent was a quarter of that. £750/week in free money in his pocket. How did Islington council allow that?

Osem	15-07-2017 11:46

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35907906)

17 in the whole country?
This is EIGHT just in the Westminster area.

From a FOI request from 2011 for JUST Westminster

[COLOR=#000000]
From DWP report: Housing Benefit caseload breakdown - March 2011
So were does the 17 come from?
From the figures for previous years it can be clearly seen that the problem arose from the Local Housing Allowance system introduced in 2008. In just 2 years the number even in the £25K-£30K band tripled. The problem was that for large houses, the sky was the limit. People were DELIBERATELY moving into expensive areas because they knew it would be all covered by the taxpayer.

Then there is this case which is beyond belief.
From an Upper Tribunal ruling where the guy WON a rehearing.:shocked:In other words he was claiming and RECEIVING £1,000/week, even though his actual rent was a quarter of that. £750/week in free money in his pocket. How did Islington council allow that?

and I wonder how many of the properties involved are being sublet either wholly or partially...

A fairly recent TV documentary highlighted the case of HB fraud and tracked a guy who had a house and was claiming HB in the UK whilst he was living and working in Belgium and doing the same thing there. It beggars belief but I believe it's a lot more prevalent that some people would care to admit. The councils don't have the will and/or the resources to tackle it and doing so would simply prove just how bad the reality is. Rather like the approach of the various authorities to the child abuse in certain areas of the UK, it's easier to turn a blind eye to the true scale of the problem.

Taf	15-07-2017 13:12

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35907906)

17 in the whole country?
This is EIGHT just in the Westminster area.

Costs of Housing Benefit (now renamed " Local Housing Allowance") are a major smokescreen to vilfy Benefit claimants. Don't forget the money goes to Councils or Buy-to-let landlords, NOT into the pockets of claimants. To make it seem that it does, it is now paid into claimants bank accounts via Universal Credit. Claimants must then pay it to Councils Or Landlords.

How often do we see "Benefit family living in £1million Kensington house"? Are people gullible enough to think the £1million house belongs to them? It would appear many do....

The Benefit Cap just makes it impossible for claimants to live in areas where rents are high. So this is a purge of the poor from "rich" areas.

Other Benefit changes mean many unemployed or low-income youngsters are unable to move out of the family home, so the Cap might hit that household hard just because more people are living there.

---------- Post added at 12:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

Anyway, the letter arrived today, the DWP have accepted the Tribunal's decision, and my son is going to get PIP until Feb 2022.

But the "review" will start again in Feb 2021, by when it is expected that the DWP will have tightened each rule, and interpretation of that rule, to their own benefit.

Osem	15-07-2017 13:44

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35907939)

The money goes direct but there's little to stop tenants subletting. I don't see the benefits cap as purging anything any more than the in the case of those who don't qualify for any help (perhaps by not very much) having to move many miles and uproot their families in order to find cheaper housing when their jobs or family circumstances change for example. In an ideal world it'd be different but sadly benefits aren't there to guarantee people can live where they choose or would like to remain.

Great news re Taff Jnr. BTW :tu: :tu:

It'd be a good idea to start seeking and collecting whatever medical and other 'expert' evidence you can to support his claim in 5 years time. Who knows where we'll be then though... :erm: :shrug:

Kursk

15-07-2017 13:54

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35907939)

Anyway, the letter arrived today, the DWP have accepted the Tribunal's decision, and my son is going to get PIP until Feb 2022.

But the "review" will start again in Feb 2021, by when it is expected that the DWP will have tightened each rule, and interpretation of that rule, to their own benefit.

With respect Taf, the DWP have agreed to the PIP for which your son qualifies; a subsequent review is both proper and necessary and despite your unfounded presumption about the future you should feel confident that even under revised rules your son will qualify.

Can't see that you're ever likely to be content with the system for administrating public funds but it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge that the DWP is doing its job despite staffing constraint and a continuing pay cap. I'm sure they employ plenty of people who have family issues of their own.

weenie

15-07-2017 14:08

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35907946)

Great news re Taff Jnr. BTW :tu: :tu:

It'd be a good idea to start seeking and collecting whatever medical and other 'expert' evidence you can to support his claim in 5 years time. Who knows where we'll be then though... :erm: :shrug:

Good advice Osem I was advised to keep a file on everything including the DWP decision report and my medical report. I now get a copy of hospital scans, reports etc I even got a copy of my Gall bladder operation and the report by the surgeon as it is suspected my illness caused inflammation in my Gallbladder apparently it is quite common with my illness.

This file also came in handy when a fellow CF member sent me PM for some information in regards to their claim in where I could give them a exact time frame on how long my claim took, the length of time my award was for and who did my assessment.

Chrysalis

16-07-2017 18:19

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35907005)

the figure is from your link £1.3 billion in benefit fraud

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/b...-at-record-low

why are you missing the and error in all your statements?

---------- Post added at 17:19 ---------- Previous post was at 17:16 ----------

nomadking all 17 I believe in london in very small parts of london with high living costs.

I assume the situation came about as they had no where else to house these people at the time.

nomadking

16-07-2017 19:20

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35908078)

In November 2008 the total for the UK(or possibly just England) was 10. Just 2 years later it was 160. People were DELIBERATELY moving from cheaper properties(from inside and outside London) into expensive ones in Westminster. They were not homeless beforehand. They'd been in the UK for a number of years until Labour allowed them(well not Joe Bloggs obviously) to pull this trick of ripping us off. Before the Local Housing Allowance came along, they couldn't have got away with it.

Quote:

Meanwhile, we are housing people - some of whom have just arrived at Victoria coach station from others parts of Britain or abroad - in often very expensive properties.

Taf	16-07-2017 20:08

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Meanwhile, we are housing people - some of whom have just arrived at Victoria coach station from others parts of Britain or abroad - in often very expensive properties.

Expensive properties that the buyers have probably not sunk a single penny into. Properties that Housing Benefit is going to pay for for them. Housing Benefit is the wild child of Benefits, and needs to be tightly curtailed and controlled.

TheDaddy

17-07-2017 03:20

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35908078)

why are you missing the and error in all your statements?

Because he's peddling an agenda :shrug:

Taf	17-07-2017 14:26

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I just tried to apply for reissue of the lad's Blue Disabled Parking Badge.

DWP has changed eligibilty from 10 points PIP on "getting around" criteria to 12 points. And he has only 10.

So they are still moving the goalposts.... :-(

Ken W

17-07-2017 14:43

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35908157)

That is typical of the DWP. :mad:

nomadking

17-07-2017 15:40

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35908157)

I don't think it the DWP that determine the criteria. Have you checked the criteria for your local council?
For my local council(Northamptonshire)

Quote:

You will receive a badge upon application if you can provide evidence that any of the following is true:

you receive the higher rate of the mobility component of the Disability Living Allowance
you receive the mobility components of the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) and you have been awarded at least 8 points for moving around (standing and walking). If your PIP award is for less than 3 years then your Blue Badge will expire when your Personal Independence Payment expires.

...
You may also be eligible to receive a Blue Badge in the following circumstances:

you drive a motor vehicle regularly, have a severe disability in both arms and are unable to operate, or have considerable difficulty in operating, all or some types of parking meter.
you have a permanent and substantial disability which means you are unable to walk or have very considerable difficulty in walking. In this case we may ask you more questions to help us determine whether you are eligible for a badge.

Link
Is Cardiff your council?

Quote:

You can automatically qualify for a blue badge if you are over two years old and meet one or more of the following criteria:

Receive the Higher Rate of the Mobility Component of the Disability Living Allowance (DLA)
Receive a Personal Independence Payment (PIP). This is a score of 8 or more under the ‘moving around’ activity of the mobility component or 12 points for ‘planning and following a journey’.
Are registered blind

...
If you do not meet the criteria to automatically qualify for a blue badge this does not mean you may not be eligible to apply.

weenie

17-07-2017 15:56

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Taf I was awarded 8 points in regards to mobility and I applied to my local council for a blue badge when applying I enclosed a copy of my award letter. I got a blue badge for 3 years and I had to pay a fee of pay £20 as my application was successful.

I was told that I may need to have a assessment but I never needed one I assume that is because my local council went by what was written on my award letter. If I were you I would apply for this badge and enclose a copy of your lad's award letter.

You have nothing to lose Taf and everything to gain as my badge helps me a great deal and I assume the same would apply to your lad. My blue badge was a Godsend at my last day surgery I really do not know how I coped without it now.

Good luck Taf but I'm certain that your lad will get this badge without a problem.

Taf	17-07-2017 20:23

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I read his award notice wrong. He got 10 points for "planning and following a journey" not "getting around" (zero points because he can just about walk 200 yards).

The council said they only accept applications online through the gov.uk website, despite what their own website says. Then another bloke there said they can do face-to-face assessments in specific cases. Left hand, right hand again....

nomadking

17-07-2017 21:32

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

The application may be online, but an assessment might be part of any approval process. No contradiction involved.

If there is no physical restriction then not sure there is any point applying. If somebody needs somebody else to accompany them or needs a guide dog, then a Blue Badge wouldn't be appropriate. Sounds like might be eligible for a Disabled Bus pass, along with a carers pass if somebody else needs to accompany them.

Taf	17-07-2017 22:06

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35908208)

If somebody needs somebody else to accompany them or needs a guide dog, then a Blue Badge wouldn't be appropriate.

Quite the opposite as it allows that person's driver to park close to locations the holder wishes, or needs, to visit. And I know 2 ladies who are driven close to locations with their guide dogs as second passenger.

nomadking

17-07-2017 22:19

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35908212)

Blue Badges have always been about physical restrictions to moving around. Being blind is not a physical restriction from getting to A to B, just finding the way.

Even the old DLA rules didn't count.

Quote:

they can make progress on foot without severe discomfort, they are virtually unable to walk

dilli-theclaw

17-07-2017 22:27

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I have a blue badge.

weenie

17-07-2017 22:32

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Blue badge
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-g...#guide-content

You could get a Blue Badge to help you with parking if:
In England, Scotland or Wales, you have been awarded at least eight points for the moving around activity in the PIP test
In Scotland or Wales, you have been awarded 12 points for the planning and following journeys activity in the PIP test

You can find out how to apply on the Financial help if you’re disabled: Vehicles and transport page of the gov.uk website.

Taf I do understand this as according to this I should not have a blue badge as my award was
Mobility
Planning and following a journey - I was awarded (4)
Moving around- You can stand and then move more than 50 metres but no more than 200 metres either aided or unaided again awarded (4)

So it may still be worth your while applying for a badge for your lad.

Ken W

18-07-2017 10:02

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35908198)

.

The council said they only accept applications online through the gov.uk website, despite what their own website says. Then another bloke there said they can do face-to-face assessments in specific cases. Left hand, right hand again....

There are some folk that do not have internet access so there must be sent the form by post.

denphone

18-07-2017 21:12

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35908124)

Because he's peddling an agenda :shrug:

Sad really but sadly some form their opinions from their own one eyed uneducated prejudices and not proper fact based information.

Hugh	18-07-2017 21:42

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35908214)

From the gov.uk website for Blue Badge online application (for a Leeds postcode).

Quote:

Select one of the options below

Reason for applying

I am over the age of two and registered as blind (severely sight impaired)

I have either a Certificate of Vision Impairment (CVI) or a BD8 form, signed by a consultant ophthalmologist, stating that I am severely sight impaired (blind) and I wish to be registered as severely sight impaired (blind) with my local authority

I receive the Higher Rate of the Mobility Component of the Disability Living Allowance

I receive a Personal Independence Payment (PIP) as I meet a 'Moving Around' descriptor for the Mobility Component because I either cannot stand or can stand but walk no more than 50 metres. This is a score of 8 points or more.

I receive a War Pensioners' Mobility Supplement

I receive a tariff within 1-8 (inclusive) of the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme and have been assessed as having a permanent and substantial disability which causes inability to walk or very considerable difficulty in walking.

None of the above apply. Press Next for more options.

papa smurf

18-07-2017 23:29

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35908348)

Sad really but sadly some form their opinions from their own one eyed uneducated prejudices and not proper fact based information.

the facts are there is a lot of fiddling going on and trying to sweep it under the carpet won't work anymore sadly as sad as it sadly might sadly be sadly .

papa smurf

20-07-2017 13:41

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Ex-paratrooper known as 'Action Man Mark' fiddled £7,000 claiming he was too weak to walk more than 50 yards - despite climbing Kilimanjaro, finishing triathlons and going wing-walking

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4nN3uxQUo
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

heero_yuy

20-07-2017 14:37

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35908570)

Ex-paratrooper known as 'Action Man Mark' fiddled £7,000 claiming he was too weak to walk more than 50 yards - despite climbing Kilimanjaro, finishing triathlons and going wing-walking

Presumably we should also add Oscar winning acting to his "talents"? :(

papa smurf

23-07-2017 22:33

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

hey diddle diddle the bin mans on the fiddle

Benefit fraudster who claimed he could only walk two yards in 15 minutes is filmed working as a BINMAN

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4ngmX1JzL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

RizzyKing

24-07-2017 00:03

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

No one is saying or has ever said there are no frauds out there as clearly there are and i hope when caught the full weight of the law is brought to bear and ideally custodial sentences. For the few frauds and despite how the media portrays things it is a few given the number of total claimants it is wrong to cause the stress and worry the current system does. The current system is useless and it wouldn't be so bad if competent assessments were being conducted but they are not and because reality doesn't fit what the DWP want they continue to move the goalposts making the system more stressful for the genuine claimants.

Here's the biggest joke of all though the current system DOES NOT catch frauds it does nothing to reduce the amount of fraud because most assessor's are not medically trained and have no real practical knowledge of pain thus making it easy to fool them. People here and elsewhere talking about how the genuine must suffer so that we minimise fraud have been lied too left, right and centre that the system does anything more then create problems for people who are already suffering. So support the system if you want but don't pretend it's about cutting fraud because there isn't a single piece of reliable evidence to support the cutting fraud lie.

denphone

24-07-2017 08:22

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35908965)

A excellent rational thought out post unlike the prejudiced.:clap::clap:

Kursk

24-07-2017 16:40

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35908965)

1. You accept that there is fraud;
2. You say the current system does not identify fraud;
3. You say genuine claimants suffer because of the system;
4. You imply the DWP have an agenda that causes stress for genuine claimants;
5. You call into question the capability of assessors;
6. You say the current system is useless.

Rather than insulting hard-working and underpaid civil servants, what system for controlling and delivering public funds to genuine claimants, whilst minimising fraud, would you suggest?

RizzyKing

24-07-2017 21:15

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I have suggested it in the past hand the assessment process over to the NHS in fact I've said it more then once over the last few years as the doctors that deal with people. Anyone claiming disability benefits longterm has at least one consultant who are far better placed to give an accurate assessment then someone who attends company courses some of which last a whole 12 weeks to become an assessor. Consultants these days do not keep people on their lists if they don't believe there is an issue and have the distance from patients to render an objective assessment.

Yes the DWP does have an agenda and that agenda is to lower the numbers claiming benefits regardless of whether those people are genuinely entitled to them or have conditions that more then eligible. The private company's conducting the assessments take their lead from the DWP and act accordingly this was shown by the documentary that was made when ATOS was the main one doing the assessments and the trainers told the class that the DWP expected a set failure rate.

I dont have an issue with the assessor's how could i they probably were out of work before getting their job and as someone who wishes i could work i understand taking anything rather then nothing but that doesn't excuse the DWP or the company's themselves. If you want proif look at the tribunals it's a ridiculously high level of judgements for the claimants and still the DWP doesn't improve the assessment. They would rather change the tribunal process and prevent their bad decisions being overturned and that's what they are doing now removing advocates and other resources the claimant had to help them.

Out of curiousity are you in the system Kursk?.

Kursk

25-07-2017 01:02

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35909052)

Perhaps it is felt that consultants are not best placed to make objective assessment given that the decision comes with the inevitable baggage of disappointment in some cases? Perhaps the consultants just don't have time and that this is a burden they can do without? Perhaps consultants themselves don't want the responsibility?

The DWP evidently feel that its assessors are appropriately prepared to discern between genuine claimants and fakes and to be fair 3 months of intensive training backed up with a decision process doesn't seem unreasonable. Perhaps gaining on the job work experience after initial training is perceived as prejudicial but the 'protection' afforded by Tribunals seems to be covering that?

I don't know the reasoning behind the system but I know there has to be one. It is investigative by nature which seems to raise the heckles. Maybe when a full database has been created, qualification won't be so onerous. From what I've read here no genuine claimants have missed out and the system should safeguard the future for those who will continue to qualify and that's a positive isn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35909052)

Out of curiousity are you in the system Kursk?.

No. But I know lots of mums and dads, sons and daughters who work hard in public service and get nothing but moan after moan about how rubbish they are. They're not on BBC wages you know yet they manage to deliver service we should appreciate, not berate.

RizzyKing

25-07-2017 02:25

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I have friends and relatives working in the public sector including one working for the DWP and they are the most critical and cynical of the DWP hence them starting a new job in a couple of months. Good people can sometimes work for bad company's it's always been that way and no consultants these days care about facts they have very little emotional attachment to individual patients so they are far better placed to give accurate assessments of a persons illness and effects of that illness.

So you'd be happy to have an assessment from someone who until they took the company's assessment course might have been a cleaner and honestly believe they will have a better handle on a person's medical conditions then a consultant. Why they don't use the NHS is quite simple they can't fire the NHS they can't put the pressure on an NHS consultant to give them their preferred decision as they can with the private company's that have contracts from the DWP. Regardless of the people working within the system doesn't change the fact it's a lousy system that fails in every regard except one in that it temporarily reduces benefit claimant numbers.

We pay these private company's a lot of money to do assessments that they routinely get wrong that then costs more money when it goes to tribunal who overwhelmingly find the assessment system to be flawed and ineffective and have stated as much numerous times and nothing is done to change it. Oh and if your a good actor and know the system well as all die hard benefit fraudsters do this current assessment system is your best friend because it's easy to pull the wool over the eye's of the inexperienced and knowledge lacking assessor.

Money is being thrown down the drain with the current system with very little value being gotten for the sums paid and we have the NHS with funding issue's so cancel the private company's contracts and give the money to the NHS instead. They are better equipped and qualified to know a problem exists and if it affects a person to the point of not being able to work it's a perfect solution except for the fact the DWP would lose any control over the assessments which it clearly isn't willing to do. Ask yourself why the NHS that treats the ill in this country but plays no part in the assessment process to determine illness and extent of that illness is in anyway logical.

Taf	25-07-2017 12:37

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35909077)

Ask yourself why the NHS that treats the ill in this country but plays no part in the assessment process to determine illness and extent of that illness is in anyway logical.

I agree 100% with your comments. Taking the assessments out of the hands of experts in the fields required and giving them (and a lot of public money) to unqualified private staff is totally illogical. But it serves the DWP's agenda.

papa smurf

25-07-2017 12:48

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35909107)

the agenda of cutting out fraud ? weeding out the lead swingers is that so terrible .

denphone

25-07-2017 16:02

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35909110)

the agenda of cutting out fraud ? weeding out the lead swingers is that so terrible .

No as has been pointed out to you and others before by some on here and here's one here for you just to help you along.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/...on-court-told/

But just remember the DWP's own figures tell you that fraud within the benefit budget is very small in comparison to other frauds being committed in this country but alas nothing much gets mentioned or done about that sadly.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...nary-estimates

papa smurf

25-07-2017 16:11

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35909139)

your very small is in the £billions sadly and sadly is still fraud ,if people put as much effort into stopping it as they do defending it there would be very little to no theft of funds .

denphone

25-07-2017 16:17

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35909143)

your very small is in the £billions sadly and sadly is still fraud ,if people put as much effort into stopping it as they do defending it there would be very little to no theft of funds .

l have never defended benefit fraud full stop but l will defend the relentless demonising and stereotyping of the vast majority of benefit claimants who are not scroungers or lazy *******s or whatever else one wants to call them..

papa smurf

25-07-2017 16:25

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35909148)

no one has demonised the genuine claimants just the fraudsters who infiltrate the system and suck it dry with their fake illnesses while holding down a paying job or just choosing it as a lifestyle because it's better than work ,these people use up this valuable resource that the genuinely sick need to survive .

Kursk

25-07-2017 17:14

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

It seems that a perfect system that serves genuine claimants, the Government and the taxpayer is unattainable. As such, it seems to me that the system (with inherent emotional detachment) that's in place is as workable as any alternative.

It's the cheats who should be blamed if the system is felt to be too invasive or onerous, not the DWP.

dilli-theclaw

25-07-2017 17:33

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I got my letter this morning :(

weenie

25-07-2017 17:35

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I'm certain you will be fine dilli although I know it is still a worry.

papa smurf

25-07-2017 17:36

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw (Post 35909155)

I got my letter this morning :(

for an assessment or a judgement ??

dilli-theclaw

25-07-2017 17:45

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35909157)

for an assessment or a judgement ??

I assume I'll get an assessment after they get this paperwork back. Natalie is reading through it now as they didn't send it in a suitable format for me to look at.

Taf	25-07-2017 17:56

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw (Post 35909155)

I got my letter this morning :(

The "invitation" to claim PIP?

dilli-theclaw

25-07-2017 17:57

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Yup

papa smurf

25-07-2017 18:00

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw (Post 35909158)

I assume I'll get an assessment after they get this paperwork back. Natalie is reading through it now as they didn't send it in a suitable format for me to look at.

i don't see how they could possibly turn you down :tu:

Osem	25-07-2017 18:32

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw (Post 35909160)

Yup

I don't think you're going to have any problems at all and we found the forms much easier than the old DLA ones. It's never nice going through this stuff but don't let the all the social media garbage add to your worries. There's nothing to be gained by that at all. :tu:

denphone

26-07-2017 09:10

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw (Post 35909155)

I got my letter this morning :(

So sorry to hear that dilli but sadly it was just a matter before that dreaded envelope came through the door.:(

---------- Post added at 08:04 ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35909161)

i don't see how they could possibly turn you down :tu:

Sadly a imperfect system does this a lot more then you think it does.

---------- Post added at 08:10 ---------- Previous post was at 08:04 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35909153)

It seems that a perfect system that serves genuine claimants, the Government and the taxpayer is unattainable. As such, it seems to me that the system (with inherent emotional detachment) that's in place is as workable as any alternative.

It's the cheats who should be blamed if the system is felt to be too invasive or onerous, not the DWP.

That it certainly is but l don't think you can blame the civil servants who carry out this task as they get their orders from those above who set the criteria for PIP.

dilli-theclaw

26-07-2017 16:24

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

From all I see/hear from various sources I don't trust a fair assessment to take place.

I may think I'm a genuine case but plenty in here and some other people I know don't.

weenie

26-07-2017 17:07

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Ignore the haters dilli till they walk in your shoes they have no right to judge. Take my illness I'm very ill with it yet there are people who only have a few flare ups, then there is peanut he is far worse than me. I may look ok and if I hear one more time oh look at you I bet you have no trouble buying clothes when I want to scream actually I do it is not nice having to look in the children's department for clothing when your a 48 year old woman. Some people really need to think before they make comments they know nothing about.

I say ignore the haters and embrace the people who understand.

denphone

26-07-2017 17:29

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by weenie (Post 35909309)

Ignore the haters dilli till they walk in your shoes they have no right to judge. Take my illness I'm very ill with it yet there are people who only have a few flare ups, then there is peanut he is far worse than me. I may look ok and if I hear one more time oh look at you I bet you have no trouble buying clothes when I want to scream actually I do it is not nice having to look in the children's department for clothing when your a 48 year old woman. Some people really need to think before they make comments they know nothing about.

I say ignore the haters and embrace the people who understand.

Yep a prejudiced mind is a closed mind weenie...

---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:16 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw (Post 35909301)

From all I see/hear from various sources I don't trust a fair assessment to take place.

I may think I'm a genuine case but plenty in here and some other people I know don't.

One of the main things is to make sure you have up to date medical information stating how much your condition affects you on a daily basis and the daily needs you have because of it as PIP is not the awarded for the condition itself but on how you are affected by your medical conditions.

Osem	26-07-2017 23:03

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw (Post 35909301)

From all I see/hear from various sources I don't trust a fair assessment to take place.

I may think I'm a genuine case but plenty in here and some other people I know don't.

I think one of your 'tools' has got to you Dilli. ;)

You have known, serious medical conditions and plenty of evidence to support that fact. I'm not sure what you're worried about but do you think you won't qualify for the enhanced rate on both care and mobility? I think you'll find out it's easier than you've been led to believe but whatever the outcome worrying about it for months won't change anything except your state of mind for the worse. :tu:

Stuart

27-07-2017 10:51

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35908369)

the facts are there is a lot of fiddling going on and trying to sweep it under the carpet won't work anymore sadly as sad as it sadly might sadly be sadly .

The fiddling is undoubtedly there, but I doubt it's as prevalent as the media would have you believe. My reason for this? Simple. I know people who are claiming, and most of them do have genuine reasons for their claims.

That's not hard evidence by any means, but then neither is a newspaper article showing one man climbing mountains while claiming benefits evidence that mass fraud exists.

nomadking

27-07-2017 11:07

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

The fraud cases are not quick one-off instances. They have often gone on for several years. Therefore they have not been in the fraud figures for all of those years. There is undiscovered fraud not in the figures. There is also "difficult to disprove" fraud where people are getting away with it. In the past, it would have been back pain that was the most lied about or exaggerated condition. Nowadays depression is the easy option. Impossible to disprove. All you have to do is get your GP to prescribe anti-depressants and that is the required "proof". Even though technically, taking the anti-depressants should mean you are no longer depressed and not eligible for benefits.

Kursk

27-07-2017 11:52

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35909406)

And the frauds have to be weeded out; this can only be of benefit to genuine claimants and the taxpayer. If there are "haters", they are people who hate fakes and fakers who hate the fact that they are being found out.

papa smurf

27-07-2017 11:58

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35909411)

yay

vote Kursk:cleader:

Kursk

27-07-2017 12:01

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35909412)

yay

vote Kursk:cleader:

Arf arf touché :D

Osem	27-07-2017 13:24

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35909402)

The trouble is that people can easily lie about working off the books for example, living with someone, subletting council property, hiding assets, exaggerating/feigning symptoms, their identity or any number of things which might affect their entitlement too or the level benefit they receive. You might feel you 'know' they have circumstances/issues which can be claimed for but if you don't know all the detail of what they're claiming it's impossible to say if or to what extent they're abusing the rules. Having said that I think most people would have a great deal more sympathy for someone who's genuinely suffering in some way and claims a bit too much than someone who sets out to defraud the system for as much as they can.

papa smurf

03-08-2017 21:35

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

hey diddle diddle sadly the runners on the fiddle

Marathon runner said he could not walk claims £38k in disability benefits

After being awarded disability living allowance Totterdell set about training for marathons, half-marathons and other running activities during the six-year scam.

Prosecutor Ian Foinette told Canterbury Crown Court Totterdell claimed benefits totalling £38,491.60 between September 2009 to May 2015.

His wife is due to stand trial next year for a similar offence. In application forms the couple, from Dover, Kent, allegedly claimed Totterdell also needed sticks or crutches to walk.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/836...ham-totterdell

Osem	03-08-2017 21:50

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35910685)

****.

Taf	04-08-2017 13:16

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.co...refuse-to-act/

denphone

04-08-2017 13:20

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35910744)

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.co...refuse-to-act/

Yep it cuts both ways Taf but alas the one eyed man only conveniently mentions the part that suits them..

papa smurf

04-08-2017 13:48

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

diddle i diddle i diddle i diddle how many are there not on the fiddle :shrug:

denphone

04-08-2017 13:54

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35910749)

diddle i diddle i diddle i diddle how many are there not on the fiddle :shrug:

Far more then you think but if you continue to read certain parts of the media who sole purpose is to demonise all benefit claimants then one will never come out a well thought out rational reasoned conclusion.

papa smurf

04-08-2017 13:59

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35910753)

Far more then you think but if you continue to read certain parts of the media who sole purpose is to demonise all benefit claimants then one will never come out a well thought out rational reasoned conclusion.

as many as 10 ?

denphone

04-08-2017 14:02

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35910755)

as many as 10 ?

The answer is out there if you look.......;)

papa smurf

04-08-2017 14:12

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35910756)

The answer is out there if you look.......;)

i've looked and don't like what i see but i do understand why people are bricking it over the assessments .

weenie

04-08-2017 14:15

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

That is why it is always a good idea to get a recording, this not only safeguards the claimant but also the assessor imo. I also think it would be a good idea if all assessment centers offered the assessment to be recorded without the need to request I know this would cost but I'm quite sure that most claimants would gladly pay for a copy CD or Tape.

https://welfaretales.wordpress.com/2...ent-interview/

Taf	04-08-2017 14:39

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by weenie (Post 35910762)

Many assessors don't like to be recorded, and some just call in sick when a recorded interview is scheduled.

The rules covering recording are strict, despite many calls by those in oversight positions demanding that all interviews be recorded.

weenie

04-08-2017 14:51

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35910767)

Well that say's it all Taf why do they not like to be recorded :shrug: what do they have to worry about if there telling the truth in reports they write then surely it would make sense to have a recording to back up their report. As I have previously stated this ensures a fair assessment for all concerned including the assessor.

I did not know that many assessors don't like being recorded as this makes perfect sense to me and the only explanation I can come with is that they are the one's on the fiddle :D

papa smurf

04-08-2017 14:54

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

this motability looks a bit rough

http://news.sky.com/video/cctv-catch...y-car-10973502

Taf	04-08-2017 15:36

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

One assessor had his recordings checked against what he had written. His assessment was overridden and the recording used for the decision (in favour of the claimant).

Was the assessor sacked? No, the assessor was "reprimanded" and sent back to work.

Osem	04-08-2017 15:48

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I think these interviews ought to be recorded too - it'd be so much easier to conduct checks and detect mistakes, cheating, misrepresentation etc. by all involved.

nomadking

04-08-2017 15:54

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

The ones that get caught and prosecuted are the blatant ones, eg activity holidays, running marathons. There will be large numbers who aren't so blatant but are still fibbing. They are more difficult to identify and will not be in the fraud figures.

RichardCoulter

04-08-2017 16:01

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

The Government itself estimates that less than half a % of DLA claims are fraudulent, which, whilst any fraud is unacceptable, compares very favourably with other benefits.

Nevertheless, Governments (both Tory and Labour) have used special initiatives to reduce this further eg The Benefits Integrity Project.

Each time the results were that roughly 80% of awards were found to be correct and unchanged, 10% were reduced and 10% were found to be being underpaid.

In essence, they saved nothing (in fact it cost the taxpayer money in extra administrative costs) and put most people through the process needlessly.

I believe that this is why Cameron changed the goalposts* and brought in PIP.

* eg by reducing the length that a person is able to walk before being classed as unable or virtually unable to walk.

TheDaddy

04-08-2017 16:59

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35910745)

Yep it cuts both ways Taf but alas the one eyed man only conveniently mentions the part that suits them..

One eyed, he should put in a claim...

Taf	04-08-2017 17:27

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

DBC recommendation 14 – Audio recording should be available for all assessments and the DWP should evaluate what impact it has on the quality and accuracy of assessments.

DBC recommendation 15 – All claimants should be provided with a copy of the assessor’s report as soon as possible after their assessment and have the opportunity to flag up anything in the report that they believe to be inaccurate

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...p-response.pdf

But.....

The Department has asked Personal Independence Payment (PIP) assessment providers not to offer audio recording of consultations or to provide recording equipment at present. We have not seen any evidence from other disability assessments that audio recording face-to-face consultations would improve the quality of assessments and there was only limited evidence of improvement in the customer experience for some individuals.

The Department is currently evaluating the costs and benefits of the approach to audio recording of Work Capability Assessments. If there is evidence in support of a more proactive approach to audio recording DWP will review the arrangements for PIP.

As a result, we have asked Capita not to offer audio recording at this stage.

We communicated this message in our response to the Disability Benefits Consortium’s briefing on the provider pledges.

You can find this on the GOV.UK website at http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads...p-response.pdf NO YOU CAN'T AS IT HAS BEEN DELETED!

Taf	04-08-2017 21:58

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...legal-10931703

nomadking

04-08-2017 22:38

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Reconsiderations AND the 1 month limit were around LONG BEFORE 2013.

Quote:

It is DECLARED that on the proper construction of section 12 of the
Social Security Act 1998 and the Social Security and Child Support
(Decisions and Appeals) Regulations 1999 (the 1999 Regulations)
that a claimant, from whom the Secretary of State receives a
revision application under Regulation 3ZA(2) of the 1999
Regulations, and to whom the Secretary of State responds by
stating that the application is late and does not meet the criteria
for extending time under the 1999 Regulations, has a statutory
right of appeal to the First-tier Tribunal against the decision of
which revision had been sought.

And even before then a MR stage was used.

Quote:

In the 1990s earlier legislation (since repealed by the 1998 Act) required claimants to seek a review before being able to appeal a decision relating to attendance allowance (AA), disability living allowance (DLA) and the now-abolished disability working allowance (DWA).

Before 2013 you had the option of asking for a reconsideration and if that failed going to appeal or going straight for appeal. As a successful reconsideration(and they did happen) could take place a lot quicker than waiting several months for a Tribunal hearing, asking for a reconsideration followed by appeal(if necessary) was always the better option of the two. Even then there were one month time limits for those steps.

The question here seems to be who takes the very final decision for a late application, the DWP or a tribunal. Either way the DWP gets first say and might allow a late reconsideration or appeal.

So if you wait 10 months, you still have the wait for the initial DWP decision and then the wait for the tribunal hearing. All that time with no money coming in, whatever way you look at it.

Quote:

(5 months late in CJ’s case and 10 months late in SG’s case).

Quote:

So, by the time of the substantive Upper Tribunal hearing, both claimants had been awarded ESA – in both cases the Secretary of State had agreed to reconsider the MR request,

Quote:

At the case management hearing on 27 January 2017, the Secretary of State, through counsel, acknowledged that the underlying issues in the appeal and the judicial review were important and of wide application and asserted that the Secretary of State was keen to have them resolved.

The Government supported the idea that there should be a ruling one way or another.

denphone

05-08-2017 07:18

Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35910788)

One eyed, he should put in a claim...

Perhaps TD when he walks a mile in someone else's shoes he might grasp a better understanding of how things really are instead of demonising every benefit claimant out there as yes there are cheats and they are a small minority and the state should come down hard on them but trying to blacken every other benefit claimant is nothing more then reprehensible and insulting.

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