Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

On the contrary, the civil service actively tried to create a credible process for deciding who gets franchises. They tried to create what amounted to a spreadsheet into which the bids could be put, with various calculations designed to show which operator would be best. The problem was that they made a pig's ear of their spreadsheet and they were too afraid of charges of smoky, backroom dealings to actually put a pair of eyes on the bid documents and identify questionable assertions by the bidders (such as, in the case of the West Coast, the line returning next to nothing for about 17 years and then suddenly generating a very nice return to the taxpayer right at the end).

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

I can fully agree with you on that. :tu:

We should be able to enjoy the benefits of privatisation whilst at the same benefiting from the scope for standardisation and huge buying power which comes with the scale of national organisations.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

It never has been for me, which is why I've always used the bus when travelling by public transport!

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Don't remember it feeling cheap when I was commuting either. into London either. Dirty, disgusting, unreliable on the other hand...

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

And what exactly was invested in the railway by the public sector during this period?

We need to stop basing our opinions on 'bite size' comments!

---------- Post added at 17:15 ---------- Previous post was at 17:04 ----------

Yes, that's what I remember. I think too many people are looking at former decades with rose coloured spectacles!

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Why I’ve finally given up on the left

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Yes they rather like adopting the sort of tactics they accuse others of - it's why I've long regarded them as hypocrites of the highest order.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

It's important to remember these people are the nutters though. There are plenty of moderate people on the left and the right that look at these people and think they're mad. We shouldn't let discussions be framed by the most extreme elements or we'll become like America where no political discourse is possible without being hating each other.

I think Cohen is right but also a bit melodramatic. He is right the Labour party has currently been hijacked by these people, although in fairness Corbyn doesn't appear to share the hatred which infests some of his supporters, but he is wrong to 'leave the left' because of it. There are plenty of people on the left who don't share the views of these social media warriors.

I said this in the other thread but I don't like the way this trend is going in the UK. Everyone seems to be getting angrier and thinking evil of their political opponents. :(

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

I like the way the "Left" are painted as a single entity, of a single opinion and having a single agenda. Sort of Ladybird book politics ..

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Do you mean like all Tories are baby-eating bigoted haters of all those who disagree with them?

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

There is good and bad in every party and anybody who thinks there is not has rose tinted glasses on....

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

If you say so ..

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

You can only get those at Labour conventions Den. The Tories have a blue tint in theirs and any tint is wasted on the Lib Dems because their spectacle lenses are about an inch thick. :D

---------- Post added at 14:58 ---------- Previous post was at 14:51 ----------

I don't think they're all evil - misguided, idiotic, shortsighted, hypocritical but not evil. ;) There are plenty of decent people in parliament, we just don't hear enough from them and as a consequence people like Corbyn get elected. I think Corbyn knows full well who's attaching themselves to his coat-tails and if he continues to tolerate their nonsense he's effectively condoning it. People like Corbyn and Livingstone have a nasty side to their characters which they usually manage to contain. It's their nonetheless.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Jeremy Corbyn becomes first Labour leader ever to score negative debut poll rating
The left-wing firebrand scored minus three - worse than every other party leader since 1980, including Ed Miliband.
:rofl:

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

:D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

My favorite spectator sport: Watching Labour implode. :LOL:

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

The thing about Corbyn is.

there's more people that don't vote, than there is that do vote.
there's a good chance that Corbyn may appeal to those that don't vote. because those that don't vote can't be bothered with the 'normal' promises and lies you hear from the usual ones.

Corbyn is unusual.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Facts are not your friend...

Two-thirds of the voting population voted in the 2015 General Election - twice as many as didn't vote.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

General election turnout

Year UK England
2015 66.1% 65.8%
2010 65.1% 65.5%
2005 61.4% 61.3%
2001 59.4% 59.2%

But Gary's point is still valid albeit a bit inaccurate.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

So it's right, whilst at the same time it's wrong? ;)

Not sure that 31% (there's more people that don't vote) is still more then 59%(than there is that do vote)...

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

I think the point he making was that Corbyn might have high support among the non-voters but he got the numbers wrong. That's it! :)

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Also the turnout is a percentage of those registered to vote. In some wards in Leeds there are streets where the electoral role says No Registered Electors against the majority of properties. So I doubt anyone truely knows the real numbers.

Cheers

Grim

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Exactly!

but you know what some people are like. just jump in without engaging brain :)

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

:erm:

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Although I'm sure the areas where there are 20-30 people registered per house go someway to balancing things out.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Would that be because they are students (Leeds has nearly 90,000 of them) and a large majority are registered at their non-term time address?

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Don't worry heero. I'm not talking about you ;)

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

They might not be eligible to vote.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

I don't know. but whoever they are. Corbyn might appeal to them enough to go out and vote. and Dave will help him by cutting those that thought he wouldn't touch.

so there's 4 years for all the votes to swing anyway.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

You thought that about this election as well - that went so well for you....

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Yes there's a recurring theme somewhere... :D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

You should know all about that, pot meet kettle

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Rail nationalisation: Jeremy Corbyn’s stupid flagship policy

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

If Toby had been paying attention he'd know there might not even be a network rail come the election

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-budget-crisis

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Now we know where Miliband got all his 'good' ideas... :D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Amazon, Vodafone, Starbucks and Google will be made to pay tax.

Gets my vote already!

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Given that decades of successive governments have failed to implement this I rate a Corbyn administrations attempts a big fat zero.

Dream on Gary.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

I rate Corbyn's chances of forming a government similarly slim... :D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

You both need to be a bit more optimistic.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

You need to return from la la land and get a reality dose.:D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

I seem to recall Brown telling us it'd all work out in the end year after year - maybe Gary was his speech writer. :D

Meanwhile back in Corbyn's fantasy party on which everyone has a different opinion on everything, John McDonnell reckons:

"another world is possible"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34378290

Just as long as it's not the 'world' he's living on...

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Just keep voting Labour on the quiet mate. it's what you're good at :D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Yes our reality of austerity and the mega rich getting richer is a much nicer land and anyone that dares complain let alone do something about it is clearly a loony, after all we've tried to sort these corporations out before and got nowhere as you said. It's not that politicians just paid lip service to sorting them whilst trousering directorships to those very corporations is it.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Corbyn's speech was ok, obviously well received in the hall but you wonder how well it will do outside of it.

I have to say I do like some of his domestic policy. The idea that we should embark on a huge housing program which would also have the effect of reducing housing benefit is a good one and it's a problem the Tories have largely ignored. At some point you would think people would crack and just vote for anybody who would help them find a home. I also liked his very public condemnation of the Cyber-trolls. There is nothing to suggest he has a credible approach to policy other than idealistic visions of what could be and his foreign policy is still a mess at best and disastrous at worst though.

Generally he does seem genuine and nice. It makes the attacks on him look vindictive and petty so the Tories will have to be careful now they handle it. There could be a similar effect to Farage where he gets a free pass on having batty populist nonsense for policy because of his persona and people instinctively warm to him.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Yes there was some reasonable stuff in there but alas one suspects some will knock it no matter what he says.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

I quite agree. I very much like Corbyn's character, I just don't agree with his policies, ideology and have great mistrust of the people around him.

It's the opposite situation you usually have with politicians.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

What I heard all sounded either extremely naïve, perhaps intentionally so. I find it hard to reconcile the sort of language Corbyn's recently been getting applauded for and the sort of language the likes of McDonnell have issued forth over the years.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Let's be fair, if he'd painted himself blue and wore a Vote Conservative T-shirt you'd of still felt the need to have a pop ;). It's getting a bit boring/predictable now.

Cheers

Grim

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

a bit he's like a tory Arthur

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

He's much more relentless, tedious and annoying than Arthur, to the point it turns me away from this site.

Just saying....

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Except I think Arthur believes what he says and doesn't sound like he just repeating what the big boys are saying down the pub.

Cheers

Grim

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

:tu:

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

According to my redtop the core of his speech was written in the 80's and had been rejected by every Labour leader since.

Paywall link

It was also very short of real policies: What about Trident jobs, the EU, immigration, the deficit, the Blier Years and illegal wars, military spending, how he'd finance his benefits splurge, our relationship with the US and the drubbing that Labour got in the election?

What we did get was a load of Marxist waffle.

Be in no doubt it's tax, spend and a ruined economy with resulting rampant inflation. Policies that have failed every time they're tried.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

What is getting boring & predictable is how people and some parts of the press are discussing Corbyn and his policies as if he has proper grown up ideas rather than policies that have been proven to be unworkable (unless you actually want to grind a country down).
It's like some people have forgotten the total shambles of brutality and wishful thinking that was the soviet union. The wheel turns and there are a whole new bunch of rose tinted idiots who either think that this time it will all work out or have simply never learnt the lessons of the past in the first place. :confused:

---------- Post added at 12:18 ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 ----------

Exactly :tu:

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

The danger is that if you don't show up the obvious flaws in his policies, it would be too late once people voted him in because they are not capable of seeing it for themselves.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

My redtop today has a list of people with really boring hobbies, this guy stood out though:

Paywall link

Oh dear. :dozey:

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

:D It's only 'tedious' to who have no answers and are comforted by simplistic nonsense. The usual suspects who've learned nothing from the past. ;)

Corbyn talks about debate and consensus but then tells everyone he'd refuse to use nuclear weapons under any circumstances. That doesn't seem like evidence of someone interested in debate and consensus. Corbyn's behaving like he's still a bankbencher few people ever listened to.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

On the public record of how trident works (true or not) the prime minister can order them not to retaliate with nuclear weapons (since doing so could be akin to causing human extinction). However, the whole point is you don't TELL THEM you aren't going to retaliate. Bloody hell!

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

The press have hardly been kind to Corbyn for the most part. He is bound to at least attract some praise from left-wing papers but I hardly think you can complain he hasn't had a tough time from the media at large. That is their job after all.

I don't think constant comparisons to the Soviet Union help. It seems be a default reaction to everything but it's no more useful than accusing the Conservatives of wanting to price the poor out of medical care and generally aiming to bring about a brutal dystopian state with unrestrained capitalism.

The thing is Corbyn's views will gain traction in the area left for him by the Tories refusal to do anything substantive about the housing crisis. The thing with simplistic populist policy is that it can be quite popular and easy for people to connect with.


I don't recall people finding that a problem with Farage. ;)

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

I think that in Corbyns case, comparisons to the USSR are entirely appropriate.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

More so than usual I'll admit...

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Well I think that's because a whole lot of what he said made some sense given the world we're living in and that isn't the case with Corbyn. ;) Farage has been proved right about the problems of mass migration and the vast numbers of people who either have the right to go where they want or are willing to take that right by force if necessary. He was denounced for scaremongering but the evidence is there for all to see with borders being closed and fences erected in order to stem the tide. Too little to late.

Anyway, how can anyone seriously argue that we should get rid of our nuclear weapons at a time when the world is in such turmoil? I think the Ukranians probably regret getting rid of theirs given recent events and these are not weapons you can simply conjure up at a moment's notice when the muck hits the fan.

For any would be PM to make such an unequivocal statement shows Corbyn to be dangerously naïve and/or willing to undermine the UK's national security.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

It's like something out of a comedy sketch :D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Ignore trolls and idiots ;)

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

I reckon Corbyn will get in. I really do.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Corbyn as PM would be more like a nightmare than a comedy sketch.

As the leader of Labour I wish him well in making an even bigger mess of it than his predecessors. ;)

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

But then, last May you were convinced everyone was voting for Miliband.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

And the summer of riots. ;)

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Whatever his party's latest policy on the EU is, it's odd how he seems to be trying to emulate their dithering and lack of unity within his own front bench. He's doing a good job of it though and calling it the 'new politics' makes it all oK. New politics from Old Labour, who'd have thought?...

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

That's not true. I knew some idiots were going to vote for Dave.

so that makes it not everyone.

did I tell you that soon we're going to find out that Dave getting in was one big fix?

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Bless....

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Did I tell you that you sound like my gran?

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

What are you......5 years old? :D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

That's an insult...


... to 5 year olds... :D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

He's under strong medication. :D

Linky

Not an auspicious start then?

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Auspicious? I'd say he's done just about everything the Tories could wish for. Almost every day that goes by brings a new madcap policy or area of fundamental disagreement and that's only amongst him and his new cabinet. I know Labour likes the idea of devolution on a national level but he's doing it on a party level. :D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Tories must be laughing their heads off. He's done so many U turns over the last few days it's like some mad Whirling Dervish.

All the Tories need to do is NOT to get too smug and wallow in gloating. There's plenty more work to do: Getting the state off peoples backs, getting people off the state teats, building affordable housing etc.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Agree and it's not like HMG hasn't got more than a few problems of its own to deal with.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

I assume that's a joke, Gary! There's a lot more likelihood of Mr Bean being elected, IMO

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

No, you didn't.

However, your utterances and behaviours are like my six year old grand-son - repeating the same things over and over again, and getting very upset when the world doesn't do what he wants.....

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

What milliband?

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

You're exaggerating again. just like my gran.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Source

In addition to income tax and VAT. :shocked:

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

The problem we have is that people like them don't feel that an individuals money is their own. They would much rather that all the money went to the state and was then given out to the individual on a need basis.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

How totally unlike Labour to come up with new taxes. :eek: I can really see with them doing away with NI too... :rolleyes:

It'll be like the Dartford toll - a 'temporary' money earner which was no such thing..

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Next they'll want to nationalise the entire housing stock and then re-allocate it on the same basis with compulsory move orders if you won't go to the house the state designates to you. No bedroom "tax" then.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

No doubt Corbyn's policies will appeal to those keen to suckle at the state's teat.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Jeremy Corbyn has turned the Labour Party into a laughing stock
:D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Except:

Paywall link

Carry on Corbyn. :D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Lust like Livingstone, when the sweet old grandad mask slips, Corbyn just can't help showing himself up for what he is - an odious and disrespectful loony. Thankfully the only damage he's likely to do whilst Labour leader is to condemn his party to years more in opposition.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Good for him. Can't say I see the problem. It's ridiculous to have to kneel in front of the Queen to join a part of our legislature and he'd be a hypocrite of the highest order if he were to kneel in front of her.

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

You'd have called him a hypocrite if he had gone along with the ceremony, though. You'd have found holes to pick regardless, just as you always do. I genuinely don't understand the illogical hatred of a political party. It's usually something more associated with the lunatics on the left who think Tories eat babies and hunt the homeless on horseback.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Comrade Corbyn takes the " what's your is mine and what's mine is my own" to new heights. I just love the way he is destroying the Labour party. We will see the Devil ice skating to work before he gets into number 10. :D

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Things have to be completely broken before they are rebuilt, and they're not necessarily built as they were before.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

His kind of rebuilding i can do with out.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

:D Missed that earlier.

Too true! The man's a complete joke but with a bit of luck he'll polarise Labour and leave the more sensible middle ground occupiers to form a new party devoid of all the loony lefties and union lackeys.

---------- Post added at 21:21 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------

Yup that'd be typical Labour spin for describing destroying. Anyway he's got more than 4 years to destroy Labour and won't be getting the keys to number 10.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

You misunderstand - he wouldn't be the one rebuilding, his successors would be.

---------- Post added at 22:19 ---------- Previous post was at 22:18 ----------

You however were far too eager to take a pop to bother trying to understand what I was saying.

---------- Post added at 22:20 ---------- Previous post was at 22:19 ----------

Can't help but thing you are actually reading stuff, and thought it would perhaps be appropriate to be a little less partisan just for once. :angel:

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Didn't Cameron miss the first appointment? Anyway I don't like Corbyn but how is this 'odious'? You would have had a go if he had went considering he is a Republican.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

Corbyn's in a no-win situation: Either he's a hypocrite or he's disrepectful. No wonder he's keeping his head down.

Re: [Update] Jeremy Corbyn wins Labour Leadership
 

To be honest, the privy council issue is of no real concern to me. However Corbyn's other plans re Nuclear weapons, the economy and generally as electable than Rolf Harris might lead the current government in to a false sense of security as in 92-97.