Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

With most of the so called new features already available on Amazon's old Fire TV box.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Imo and this is just my opinion Apple products are overpriced for what they are and they are behind the competition, the new Appletv announcement didn't excite me in the slightest then again neither did the firetv announcement.
Apple are just playing catch up nowadays imo.
The new Appletv isn't even 4k already both Amazon and ROKU have announced 4k devices once again Apple are being arrogant and falling behind and this is coming from a huge gadget fan.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I suspect that you missed the point I was alluding to, and had already posted on another thread; 4k

theone2k10 detailed it in his later post.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Ah got you now - but again, a similar point ... Apple's products rarely beat the competition on hard specs. Their strength lies in design aesthetic and ease of use. They are very good at taking something that is seen as a niche product and making it mass market.

I'm not being a fanboy and saying Apple TV will therefore of necessity be the next big thing - just that on past performance, it would be foolish to assume it won't be. Even without 4K.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I do agree with you about ease of use i have 3rd generation Appletv and setting up smart dns on it was a breeze the firetv was a bit of work but function wise both are superb and very easy to use.
I think though next generation Apple really need to pull a rabbit out of the hat as both ROKU and firetv are extremly easy to use with 4k on next generation however ROKU doesn't allow smart dns which costs it a few points imo.
In my view this is my order for ease of use of my media devices keep in mind i'm a huge android fan.
1. PC
2. Appletv 3rd generation
3. Firetv box
4. ROKU
5. Chromecast

i include my pc as i'm fortunate enough to have both pc and laptop and the pc is constantly connected to my tv.
From what i've heard it may be possible to sideload apps on new apple tv if this is the case and they keep it simple to change dns for multi region streamers like myself it could be a winner, i personally have no interest in 4K as i do not have a 4K tv, but knowing Apple they'll make a Appletv 5 in a few months with 4k because this is typical of Apple.
The next generation of devices it will be interesting to see how it all pans out but for now for me the next generation firetv is leading the way closely followed by Appletv 4thgen, however if ROKU allow dns change this could drastically change.
On the otherhand Amazon will be using Android 5.0 upwards on firetv which opens the new firetv up for endless possibilities.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Agreed, MM, but he's in the business, and I think there are plenty who are in the business who would agree with him.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Too many devices out there for my liking, keep it simple, makes it easier for the end user.....:)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I agree . All streaming services should be on the Tivo box! We all know it makes sense!! ;)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

But the tivo box struggles with iplayer and netflix so it won't have chance with half the apps the firetv runs :p:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

The Tivo is certainly slower these days, but whether this is to do with the number of streaming services or not, I have no idea.

I think the priority now for VM should be on rolling out an updated Tivo connected to the cloud for recordings with as many streaming services as possible on it, such as Amazon and Now TV. This would provide Virgin subscribers with maximum TV content unrivalled by any other UK provider.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Doubtless you will repeating this ad nauseam then in the coming years old boy.:)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I'll try not to be so tiresome!:p:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Nowtv will never be on vms Tivo box it is not in VMs interest to have it on their device.
Amazon is a possibility but not for a very long time i feel.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Please explain to me how I'm going to be better off in your world ?

As it stands now I can use the EPG or search On Demand and find whatever I want to watch easily , in your world of individual On Demand players things seem rather more long winded not to mention potentially more costly.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I do think that it would be in VM's interests because then there would be less pressure for viewers to go to Sky for the channels we don't get but are 'must have' channels.

It's a good solution because those who don't want to pay extra for those channels don't have to, and those who want to stay with Virgin and are prepared to pay extra (for Now TV) can do so.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I'll eat my hat if Nowtv ever shows up on vms tivo.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

R The linear channels are safe in the short to medium term, but the crunch will almost certainly come eventually.

You describe it as 'my world' and I admit that I am comfortable with it as I no longer watch broadcast TV live, but I am not wishing this on everyone. I'm simply stating what I believe is the way we are going.

In terms of your question, I have to say that it would take me ages to select a programme I would want to watch at a specific time from my EPG and I can find stuff from Netflix pretty quickly.

A set top box designed to carry different streaming services would have advanced search facilities that would assist you in finding the types of programme you were looking for. It would also keep track on where you were in any given series (as Netflix and Amazon do very efficiently already).

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

It won't.....

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Exactly mate i know my hat is safe.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

In your humble opinion, Den! ;)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

In my unknowledgeable opinion sounds better.:)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Which is already done most STB's now have advanced search , top picks , suggestions.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Not sure if you're aware but the new Fire OS 5 with Alexa is coming to the first gen FireTV box, rumoured to be October.

http://www.aftvnews.com/fire-os-5-wi...ck-in-october/

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

But so far, Echo hasn't been released in the UK (who's 'brain' is Alexa).

Hope Amazon do add Alexa as a UK launch, but UK tech. sites seem to have no mention of it when I checked after aftnews announced it on their site.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks :)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You keep telling them OB, I think you'll end up being correct in what you've been saying for months on this subject.......:tu:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

This will warm the cockles of your hearts, Harry Hitch and denphone! All in the interests of balance! :D

http://advanced-television.com/2015/...ar-tv-viewers/

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Well we did tell you so young man.:D

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I'll let you get away with that one, Den!!:D

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Lol, cheers OB. Kudo's for sharing too. In fairness to some of the comments you recieve, we do not know who was polled, however the fact it polled online users is not a great sign for your views.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Not surprising really and the reason why TV networks give Netflix previous seasons; to generate viewers for the currently airing season.

One US Cable network recently cited that as the reason for not increasing the time window for allowing Netflix access to previous seasons when other TV Networks were pressing them to do so. I posted the link to that source recently, but can't remember which thread (probably the Netflix streaming thread).

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Well, the poll was taken in the present. My belief is that existing viewing habits will change, so this doesn't really impact on my look to the future.

Just look at the huge change in how we communicate through social media in the last decade. This change was driven by the young growing up into adulthood. I am sure that their ways of viewing will eventually feed through to what the mainstream do, and that a point will come when commercial TV will be seen as old hat and an inefficient way of viewing.

However, we'll see.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Lol, the very people who are already watching streaming/on demand (the people who you want to be the trend setters for your future) are already admitting to watching more live, linear TV.

I really have no idea how you think this will be different in 10 years time.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Trust you to come up with that angle! :D

I think that the proportion of respondents following up on live TV could be predominently slightly older BBC viewers! :p:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Pay-TV providers to hit direct-to-consumer route in 2016

With the core concept of the TV channel fragmenting, 2016 will see a growing number of broadcasters tapping into burgeoning online video spend by selling their content directly to viewers, says research by IHS.

http://www.rapidtvnews.com/201512244...#axzz3vGccLVXr

This is very interesting, coming from the respected IHS, which 'provides information and analysis to support the decision-making process of businesses and governments in industries, such as aerospace, defense and security; automotive; chemical; energy; maritime and trade; and technology' (source: Wikipedia).

This professional 'think tank' organisation seem to be saying that we will soon have the choice between streaming services offered by all broadcasters, which we will be able to pick and choose as we please rather than simply have the limited bundles currently offered by Sky, Virgin Media, BT, etc, containing a plethora of channels nobody wants.

This may enable us to ditch all those wretched 'lifestyle' channels that come with the bundles in favour of what we really want to see, although whether our actual costs will come down.....I dare not even think that!

I expect that the linear channels offered by companies like VM will continue side by side for a while, but eventually, streaming will take over completely.

It's the way we're going, folks!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Look at the pricing of individual subs in the US , subscribe to HBO , Showtime etc and you can easily be spending more than the traditional bundling method.

Thats not to say I'm against individual subs being available , I'm sure there are many out there who are happy with Freeview and would love to add a single pay sub personally I'm not one of those.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

l share the same thoughts as MM on this.:tu:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I would never go back to a pay TV package. Streaming services give me much more personal choice. Also, thirty day contracts give you the option to opt in and out of a service, so that you only subscribe when there are shows on that interest you.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I'm freeview and amazon prime. I dont miss tivo one bit.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

And I don't blame you being you have no interest in sport. The packages you subscribe to the likes of Netflix , Amazon Prime and Now TV all still bundle content from a selection of broadcasters.

I was referring to having to take single subs for each broadcaster , ie one for Disney , one for Showtime , one for HBO etc.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

No it won't; no it isn't.

Next please. :D

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Perhaps he needs to be convinced by the Ghost's of Christmases Yet to Come.;)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I think he has some justification in what he believes Chris, I don't think you can just dismiss it as easily as you have just done.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Agree wth this once my bt tv contract is up in September i will not be renewing it, i find the combination of my USA tv sub, netflix, uk tv networks player aka bbciplayer, itv,ukplay etc and funmation gives me all the tv i need, i can't remember the last time i watched anything on bt tv.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

US residents can combine their Hulu and Showtime subscriptions. Who knows if there will be more of this? US residents will have figured out the expense of separate services, and there could be pressure for such bundling of Premium services, but still keeping the monthly sub. I suspect that most people who subscribe to HBO would also like to subscribe to similar premium services such as Showtime etc.

For people in the UK, HBO Nordic seems to be back to taking UK credit cards, which gives access to HBO, Showtime and AMC content, plus several others, again only being tied to a monthly contract.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You think that was easy?

Try reading the last several months worth of posts in this thread. The reasons why linear TV is not going to end any time in the foreseeable future are many, and have been set out, repeatedly, in this discussion. There are those here that love Netflix (or whatever) and find it impossibly hard to understand why anyone should feel differently. That leads them to make manifestly silly assertions about broadcast TV being switched off within 10 years.

It may have escaped your notice, but the BBC is currently engaged in the charter renewal process, which will grant it a royal charter for the next 10 years. In other words, it is blatantly obvious that Old Boy's original claim in this thread is false. The BBC will still be broadcasting linear TV channels on Christmas Day 2025. If the BBC guarantees the market, then other broadcasters will also still be there. They will all still be there in 2035 as well. And beyond.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

In ten years? You may be right. In 20? Do you remember what it was like watching TV 20 years ago? In 1995, analogue cable TV was just being rolled out and most people did not have the Internet.

Given all the changes that can happen in a short space of time, particularly now, with technological advances being made at an ever faster rate, I don't think it wise to be saying that the existing linear TV model will still exist, at least in its present form, in the longer term.

And as for the BBC, I did not say that it would not exist in ten years. There's not a reason that I can think of why the BBC should not present all of its programmes by way of streaming in the future.

Incidentally, the BBC may be the last to depart from linear TV broadcasting, given that their channels do not waste 15 minutes of every hour showing commercials!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Actually, the services in bold are premium channels and would be an added cost on top of a US cable TV subscription.

Until recently, you couldn't get HBO or Showtime without a cable TV subscription.

Now you can. Therefore, the option to subscribe to various streaming Premium services only, is a saving for US residents.

In fact, Sky have in good part done the same With Now TV. You don't need a costly yearly Satellite contract to watch the Sky Channels and they've thrown in a few other channels as well.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Personally I would never pay £10 plus just for HBO or Showtime , Now TV offers a large selection of that and for £6.99 plus many other studios shows.

I accept the back catalogue isn't as good as these standalone services but personally I'd sooner pay less and wait for the back shows to come around on boxsets.

No way would I pay £120 a year for HBO and £120 for Showtime in fact I'd have to think twice at half that.

I agree though for many the pay lite model is the way to go as you say you get the key content and are free to cancel anytime.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Yes, with careful selection of content providers, I think you can get a decent selection for your money, and maybe drop some of your TV packages to offset them.

A pretty good combination if you don't want to spend too much is Freeview + Netflix + Amazon Prime + Now TV entertainment package. You can access all of this for about £20 per month, which is very good indeed in my book.

Things will get better with time and ultimately there will be an amazing choice of new and older content.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Several months in to this discussion and you're still confusing 'linear' and 'streaming'.

They are not the same. 'Linear' means a fix schedule; 'streaming' is a method of delivering data - that data might be a linear TV schedule or it might be an individual selection from a library. The BBC presents all of its content by way of streaming *right now* - its linear schedule is streamed via the iplayer.

As for the rest of your post, well, several of us have been trying to explain to you for months now, where your assumptions are faulty - you continue to be unwilling or unable to separate your personal preferences from economic reality, so there's little point rehearsing it all again.

There will still be a broadcast TV service 20 years from now. I'd put money on it.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

A combination that many people use, including myself. And you don't need to spend £6.99 on Now TV; three month passes are readily available for £15, and even better bargains turn up every now and again, such as the Amazon and other stores' Black Friday sale of six month pass + box for £19, working out at about £3 p/m.

If you add a smart DNS service at around £2.50 p/m, you also get access to much more content via Netflix, and free add supported Hulu, filling in most of the US Network TV shows missing from Now TV.

I currently also subscribe to HBO Nordic which gives me, besides current shows, back catalogue HBO and the same current and back season content with some Showtime and AMC shows.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I'm not saying, and I don't know if Old Boy said it either, that linear TV will end, but the evidence that he has provided shows that peoples viewing habits are definitely changing!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

He introduced that very idea here:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35755307-post63.html

and expanded on it at length over the following weeks.

I don't disagree that viewing habits are changing. The way people have consumed information and entertainment has changed with every new invention since the alphabet. However, we cannot even discuss the complete abolition of linear TV until there is a clear roadmap to universal broadband availability of at least 24Mbps, uncapped and guaranteed 24 hours a day, to every single home in the UK. Right now, we have neither the data infrastructure to deliver it, nor the electricity generating capacity to run it, nor any plans as to how it should be done.

Broadcast TV works because it is simple and economical and it just works, for millions of people at a time. It is going nowhere, within the lifetime of anyone in this discussion.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

This.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Yet again, you are assuming that nothing will change over the next 20 years, Chris, which is just plain daft. Do you really think that we will still be stressing about a lack of broadband capacity in 20 years' time? Of course not.

And in 20 years' time, our 20 year olds will be 40 year olds and the futility of wasting all that time waiting for a scheduled programme to begin and losing half an hour over a 2 hour period to adverts will not have been lost on them.

With this shift of viewing habits, advertising on linear broadcast TV will cease to be attractive to advertisers, who will come up with alternative means of promoting their products. When the tipping point arrives, the existing broadcast TV channels will start their long decline.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Nope. Streaming services like Netflix have a bright future. More people will use them as fast broadband becomes more widely available. Plenty will change - but plenty will not. There will still be a healthy broadcast TV service in the UK 20 years from now, with no long-term plan in place to close it down.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

So how do you see the commercial broadcast linear channels being financed as audiences shift away from them, Chris? You have not explained this in the reasoning behind your conviction.

Remember how close ITV came to financial meltdown when advertising declined during the recent recession? It really wouldn't take much for the dominos to start toppling.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

The worst recession since the invention of the TV and ITV, so they claimed, *nearly* went bust - but they didn't, did they?

And commercial channels currently broadcasting to far smaller audiences than ITV have survived. The evidence is clear to see. Even a modest FTA broadcaster offers advertisers a broader reach, in a shorter time, than an on-demand provider (some of whom aren't even accepting advertising at present).

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

They nearly went bust, but didn't. Well, that's comforting.....

If the big players like ITV, Channel 4, 5 and Sky decide that it no longer pays to broadcast on traditional channels, they will cease transmissions or use them as showcase channels to promote what is available to stream. People will end up losing interest and won't bother to view the smaller channels any more.

One thing you should know is that it costs a small fortune to broadcast channels in the old fashioned way. The schedules have to be worked out, the timings have to be exact, the announcements have to be included between the programmes, the advertisements have to be inserted during the times available, etc. Whereas it is a fairly straight forward and much less time consuming simply to load the programmes onto a streaming site.

For your sake and of others who think as you do, I hope I am wrong, but I just can't see how the sums would add up if audiences migrate to streaming services in ever increasing numbers over the years.

Hell, even you might change your viewing habits over a 20 year timescale! ;)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

My viewing habits while l am still here on gods earth will still considerably involve linear TV and linear TV will still be here when many others things will have gone the way of the dodo despite what some forum doomsayers say.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Well, it's all down to future viewing habits and economics in the end, Den, that is for sure.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I think some channels fail on the exact bit OB :D

I think you will find things like announcements and add insertion is automated, often using pre-recordings for announcements. I always remember years ago when the Hallmark pre-recorded announcements got out of sync and the wrong shows were being announced.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Well, it's been almost a year since I commented on this thread and although he gets berated from some members, I broadly agree with Old Boy.

My original comments are on page 2, so I'll not repeat those, except to say that is is the content, the programmes, that are key. Not who broadcasts/streams them.

Somethings may well stay the same, but some won't....

I was born into a world of 3 broadcast channels. My parents were born into a world of none. Today there are hundreds of channels as well as VOD and streaming services.

30 years ago, Christmas shows would regularly get 20 million viewers each, today prime time shows are lucky if they get much beyond 7 million.

I think technology has had a major disruptive effect on broadcast, linear television. The latest incarnation, of which, is streaming services such as Netflix and Amazon. But, over the last week several million viewers still sat in front of their tellies each day and watched depressing crap like Eastenders, or whatever other depressing, bleak stuff has been on the box over Christmas. (Dickensian shows, Call The Midwife, some other rubbish set in darkly shot scenes with actors who mumble...etc)

But I think things are cyclical to a point, things tend to go full circle.

I think we will see some form of merging of linear and non linear tv, aided by a super-tivo like, or Netflix like interface.

I think there will probably still remain the 5 main broadcast channels, but these will act like shop windows to other places. I think if you watch a show like Eastenders, you will get some form of on screen graphic highlighting similar shows, but you'll also get a selection of completely different choices as well to wet your appetite.

I do not think any distinction will be made between a linear tv channel, bar special event tv like major football events, and non linear tv. It's hard to explain as it doesn't exist yet!, but tv will get "smarter", smart tvs actually will learn what you like and don't like and tailor your viewing accordingly.

So, at the moment there is the choice between zapping between linear tv channels or looking through menus of VOD or streaming shows. I think this will disappear, as will the hundreds of linear tv channels that exist today. They'll be a few broadcaster channels, but tv will have a Netflix ish style system (far better than today's) which will guide viewers to various choices.

My predictions for the next 20-30 years:

The BBC in its current form will not exist. The license fee will have been killed off a long time by then.

ITV, CH4, Ch5 may remain, but not in their current form.

The hundreds of satellite and cable channels will not exist.

Netflix and Amazon Prime will not exist.

TV will actually become smart and do the donkey work for you and find something for you to watch.

The creators of content will be king and although major media companies may still exist, it is the creators/writers of stuff that will be in the driving seat.

In 30 years time, a major show or sports event could be watched by 20 million+ viewers all watching at the same time in a very linear, old fashioned way.

---------- Post added at 00:39 ---------- Previous post was at 00:12 ----------

I suppose what I'm saying is that tv shows used to be watched at the same time by whole swathes of the country. I strongly believe tv will go BACK to this.

Currently linear tv, especially the main broadcast channels, have made themselves irrelevant and largely unwatchable. Tv is dominated by soaps, celebrity chefs, bargain hunt, buying a house, follow the police around, other reality type shows.

BUT, I do not believe tv is irrelevant, but a very powerful medium and if you get the right show (Game of Thrones as an example) you get what tv execs call the watercooler moment. When people in offices are talking about the same tv show that was on the night before. This is what ALL tv execs want.

But at the moment everyone is heading towards M.A.D. (mutually assured destruction). Audiences of broadcast channels here and in America are dwindling and not sustainable for much longer.

Streaming services are threatening the traditional tv bundle of channels and will eventually kill them off. So, we will reach a point where there will be a lot of blood on the carpet and the causalities will be immense in the media world. But out of the mess, will come order and decent tv will prevail and Jon Snow will become king. :LOL:

Happy New Year to you ALL. :beer:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I agree with most of Horizon's post. Just two points, though.

There is no reason why live events such as football and new series cannot be watched from a given start time, so everyone can watch at the same time. The difference will be that if you are late turning on or you want to see it the next day, the next week or whenever, it will still be there. No more need to record things.

My second point is that I believe that the BBC, Netflix and Amazon will still exist in 30 years' time, although it is possible that Netflix could be taken over, of course. I doubt that would happen to Amazon as it is simply massive, but I don't rule it out altogether. I just don't see a scenario in which this may happen.

The BBC could survive as a linear broadcast channel, but it will be driven harder to cut costs as it relies more on subscriptions when the licence fee is phased out. So although, without commercials, people may be more inclined to watch BBC channels as now, it will simply be too costly an option to maintain, with all the other terrestrials having died off.

A lot will happen in the future and one cannot be precise, but I think Horizon and I are not far off beam. I will come back to this post in 20 years' time if I'm still alive and sane by then!

---------- Post added at 09:23 ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 ----------

I think Sky still do this, but someone has to do the voice overs and programmes still have to be scheduled by people.

I certainly agree with you about the accuracy of advertised start times, although it is quite deliberate that for example Coronation Street will start sometimes at 7.28 or 7.33, even though the advertised start time is 7.30. They do this for a variety of reasons which will be known in advance by the channel, but it all works out neatly so that a particular programme starts on time later in the evening.

Most will have noticed that except where a live event is extended, the BBC's 10 o'clock News always starts on time, despite the end of Eastenders being cut off from recording earlier in the evening because it overran by three minutes!

Not that I watch Eastenders, of course, but I hear my wife from the kitchen sometimes when that happens! oops:

---------- Post added at 09:28 ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 ----------

Well, you will only be able to do that if nothing changes in the meantime, Den.

I've still not heard any convincing thoughts on your side of the argument as to how all these broadcast linear channels will be funded as most of the audience drifts away to a more efficient means of viewing.

You can bury your head in the sand, but that won't stop progress from happening. The trend is already there big time in the US, and we will see the same happening here before too long.

Time will prove me right on this, I have no doubt.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Well you have been saying that reliable old tune for a few years now old boy.;)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Old Boy,

The reason why I think Amazon and Netflix won't be around is based on comments by the big media companies today, especially Time Warner. Warner are worried about Neflix's encroachment on "their" territory and eroding HBO's (a TW owned channel) share of the market.

The big media cos will have their own Netflix or Amazon service and withhold their content to the streaming services. Netflix and Amazon will have more of their own content, but that will not justify future growth and keep customers if you can't watch a Warner, Disney, Fox show/film on Netflix and Amazon.

With regards to broadcast channels, they have long been dying a slow death. The main American networks, in particular, are worried. Despite ITV's recent surge, I think it will struggle. Who wants to waste time watching adverts....? I cannot now remember when I last sat down and watched ITV in the evenings. Plus, the evidence from smart phone/tablet viewing by younger folks is that they do not want to waste this time when they can be using it much more "efficiently" on facebook....

While the BBC is still funded by taxes, it will be fine. But once the licence fee is reduced, got rid of, or altered in any way, it will kill off the BBC as we know it in its current form.

There will still be a need for networks, whether it will be terrestrial (although I believe the terrestrial tv network will be gone in 30 years time and the bandwidth used for mobile), broadband networks and mobile. I think satellite delivered tv will die in favour of internet/mobile delivered tv.

I firmly believe that TV will look the same in 30 years time, as it did 30 years ago, on the surface, that is.... But what is underneath that surface will be very different and whoever is in the middle, the middlemen, will be gone.

As an example, if you wanted to book a holiday 30 years ago, you used a travel agent. Who uses a travel agent today? Most people use the net. Taking the same example, when the net came around, lots of people used services like lastminute.com to book their holiday's. But who uses that now? If you want a flight you go direct to Ryan Air's, BA's website and book with the hotels directly creating your own holiday "package".

TV will be like this. A direct relationship between those that create the stuff and those that watch it, I believe.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Really good post Horizon mate, I particularly liked the bit below, lol..........


But, over the last week several million viewers still sat in front of their tellies each day and watched depressing crap like Eastenders, or whatever other depressing, bleak stuff has been on the box over Christmas. (Dickensian shows, Call The Midwife, some other rubbish set in darkly shot scenes with actors who mumble...etc)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I liked it too - it illustrates exactly why those who predict the end of broadcast TV, can't understand why they might be wrong. Clearly, they don't like much of what is being broadcast. But they are at a loss to explain why "several million" people still sit down, according to a schedule, to watch such "depressing crap".

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Some people take a while to catch on to better ways of doing things, Chris. You still have Internet refuseniks today, but they are a minority of the population.

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------

Yes, I think we're on the same page, Horizon.

Some are a few chapters behind but they will catch up eventually! :D

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

That's another rather big statement to make my dear chap.:nono::naughty::nono:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Well, until someone can persuade me how existing broadcast channels can remain viable as audiences migrate away, I will continue to believe what I believe. At present it seems to me that those who think that nothing will change are engaging in wishful thinking rather than engaging in the reality. Sorry, Den, but there are no persuasive arguments that I have heard yet to support the status quo. If you have one, please let us know what they are.

If it's simply that you don't believe that viewing habits can ever change, well good luck with that. Five years ago, some of my work colleagues were amazed that we did our grocery shopping on the Internet. Now, they are converts. If that kind of change can come within five years, are you really so confident that everyone will use their TV in the same way in 20?

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

See the Ofcom Communications Market Report links I posted earlier. Linear TV viewing numbers are stable and broadcast advertising revenue is growing.

Streaming is also growing, but it will reach saturation, and I suspect in the not too distant future. If you want to stream now, there isn't anything stopping you. My guess is it'll peak at about 10% of viewing share.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I don't disagree with the Ofcom report, but that only tells us what people are doing now. It does not project forward to forecast how viewers will be watching TV in decades to come.

I respect your view that streaming will soon reach saturation, but I do not understand your reasoning behind that. I don't think viewers will want to waste their time on broadcast linear TV as streaming services mature and the average young person works out for themselves that there is a much more efficient means of watching what they want to see. Then those young people get older, and the viewing habits of the nation start to change.

The recent ITV experience in which advertising revenue reduced in the recession shows just how vulnerable the commercial TV stations are to relatively small changes in advertising income, and any significant shifts towards streaming services by the viewing public will reduce income from advertising.

I'm officially part of the older generation now, and my viewing habits have changed completely, just over the last year. Previously, the vast majority of my viewing was from TIVO recordings, with a small proportion from DVD, and very occasionally, live broadcast TV (BBC).

Now, it is totally different. Last night, for example, we watched:

The Frankenstein Chronicles (Now TV via Roku)
The Last Panthers (Now TV via Roku)
Bloodline (Netflix via Smart TV)
BBC News (TIVO recording from earlier in the evening)
Mad Men (Now TV via Roku)

Not all evenings have the same pattern of viewing; sometimes we just watch from our TIVO recordings, but nevertheless, there has been a sea change in our house in the way we view and the quality of that viewing has improved no end. I really cannot believe that the UK audience will stick to the habits of old forever.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

There might have been a sea change in your household old boy but remember there are many and l mean many who don't think like you do and never will.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Friends in my circle are starting to come round to my way of doing things and are now asking me lots of questions about streaming and the best equipment to do it. My youngest daughter now has a Roku to pick up Amazon Prime and she is really pleased with it.

The times, they are a changin'. There were those who said the telephone was an intrusion into the home and wouldn't catch on. Now look at us!

I accept completely that many people are not into all this at the moment, but given time, things will change even beyond what I am saying will happen. Did you have a mobile phone 15 years ago, Den? Bet you can't do without it now!!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Q-What has a mobile phone got in common with streaming

A- Nothing

:)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I was referring to changes in technology, Den!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Well that's wrong technically as you can stream iplayer, netflix, nowtv etc on a mobile phone these days, so technically mobile phones and streaming have quite a lot in common nowadays.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I do think that many people don't appreciate how advances in technology subtly change our habits and lives over time.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

But you have stated time after time that linear TV is dead which of course is sheer nonsense as it will be here long after all of us are gone and why don't you accept that old boy.
:)

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------

l think you both know what l am talking about.:)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Well, quite obviously, linear broadcasting is not yet dead, Denphone, and in the short term it may even grow. I have never said otherwise.

However, fast forward a couple of decades and the landscape will be completely changed.

I have given my reasons for believing this, but you have not articulated your reasons for thinking otherwise. How do you think commercial channels in their existing form can survive when audiences reduce substantially, as they will?

You may or may not eventually change the way you watch TV, but the majority will in due course. When the tipping point comes, your traditional TV stations will start going off-air.

I guess time alone will eventually convince you that things are set to change.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Agreed, but in the absence of time-travel, we can either look at existing facts to provide a guide to the future, or make random guesses based on no evidence whatsoever. Your choice....

Because streaming is already widely available. If people wanted to do it, nothing is stopping them.

This reminds me of discussions on this forum a few years ago about HDTV, with some people predicting the demise of SD. It didn't happen of course. Those who want to watch HD can do. Meanwhile most people are perfectly happy with SD and stick with it.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Spot on SP.:tu:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I'm just ribbing you buddy all the best for the new year :)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Actually, I think people are still coming to it gradually, particularly the older generation. For many of that generation, all they've known for the last 50 years, is broadcast TV. Then they need a new TV, which these days is most often a smart one, son or daughter hooks it up to the internet for them and they're watching Youtube and iplayer via the TV. For some, that will be the extent of their streaming, others will gradually take it further. Others, like myself, have embraced it full heatedly from the get-go.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You sure about that? I don't know anyone who now has the ability to watch shows in either SD or the much better HD, actually watch SD anymore, especially sport!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

l know.

---------- Post added at 08:31 ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 ----------

There are still 15 to 20 million at least who still only have SD and there are still a lot of channels that are only in SD only so that's a fair amount and ITV in their great wisdom have put their HD channels behind the paywall so the many people who have freeview cannot even get them in HD.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I watch a mix of `live tv`,on demand and recorded but must admit I`m rather old fashioned and like to see a program as it is being transmitted whenever I can. Not often possible though as I watch alot of football and have to record or catch regular programs either on demand or record them. I tend to record as much as possible because virgin seemso slow at putting some program on demand/catch up.
Incidently nobody has commented on the BBC i player being unavailable yesterday(or was it the day before? I had `one or two` last night!) due to a `cyber attack. Thankfully it didn`t effect the BBC tv stations!

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You need to meet my friends and family, even when HD is available they still watch the SD channel by default both on VM and Sky, no matter how much I mention a HD option being available, they stick with SD

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

I don't think that HD or 3D for that matter are the correct analogies. HD was simply about picture quality and 3D was a fad which was always going to appeal only to a minority.

Whereas video streaming without advertisements interrupting programmes has very distinct advantages when everyone leads such busy lives. Yet many people still cling to their old ways despite time being at a premium.

It makes me laugh that people complain because they experience a delay of a few seconds when changing channels on the TIVO but they are quite happy to waste whole chunks of time waiting for a scheduled programme to start or lose 15 minutes per hour due to commercials. The Christmas edition of Downton Abbey would have lasted only 90 minutes instead of 2 hours without those infernal commercial breaks.

This nonsense will eventually be recognised and that is when a fairly rapid sea change in viewing habits will begin.

I notice that those with a different point of view have not been coming forward with their reasons for so thinking and any reasons that are obvious from the comments they make revolve around their own viewing habits.

I suspect that VM would wish to play down the changes that I foresee because these changes will cause problems for them. However, it seems to me that Sky have already grasped the nettle and are now embracing the changes to come. VM really do need to get on board this train before it leaves without them.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

On demand already has adverts before and between some programs so how long before it becomes the norm? And then they`l start increasing the number of ad breaks just like ITV did some years ago. Most people like me use the ad break on linear tv to make a cuppa or nip to the toilet.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Eh? What do you think TiVo does? VM saw this coming long ago.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

The Tivo was really good when it came out originally. But now it is slow and clunky, and the On Demand service is no longer what it once was.

We do have Netflix and Curzon Cinema (and soon, Vevo) streaming services on there, and of course we have Virgin Movies and Sky on demand. But it isn't enough. Many of us want more and not at the expense of how long it takes to get the box to respond.

It may be that the new box has it all and surprises us, but my suspicion is that Sky are pulling ahead now.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

By heck we seem to have quite a few pessimists on the opening day of the year.:)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

You're right. We must assume that VM will surprise us all later this year. :Yes:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

They will indeed surprise you with more price rises :p:

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

As will others.;)

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

Most only do 1 price rise a year though virgin tend to do 2 or 3.

Re: The future for linear TV channels
 

If you say so.:)