Cable Forum
Page 5 of 6 1234 5 6
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33697371)

Cobbydaler 09-06-2014 14:30
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Ofsted say schools were targeted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-27763113

Quote:
"A culture of fear and intimidation has taken grip" in Birmingham schools caught up in the Trojan Horse claims, says Ofsted chief Sir Michael Wilshaw.

Head teachers have been "marginalised or forced out of their jobs", said Sir Michael, as he delivered his findings on claims of hardline Muslim takeovers.

The Ofsted chief said there was evidence of an "organised campaign to target certain schools".

Qtx 09-06-2014 14:53
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobbydaler (Post 35705340)
Ofsted say schools were targeted:
Quote:
Ofsted has carried out inspections of 21 schools, following claims in an anonymous letter that hardline Muslims were trying to impose their view on a group of schools in Birmingham.

Sir Michael's conclusion is that there had been deliberate attempts to change the ethos of schools - and he has made recommendations, including the use of "professional governors", to the Education Secretary Michael Gove, who will respond later on Monday.

"Some of our findings are deeply worrying and, in some ways, quite shocking," says the Ofsted chief.
So it appears the official investigation is showing the trojan horse letter to be correct after all. Obviously concerns about radical islam related to the school as well going by other reports.

Quote:
Ofsted says that 12 schools will need to make improvements - and three have emerged with praise rather than criticism.

Inspectors' criticisms included: Organised campaign to alter "character and ethos" of schools

Breakdown of trust between governors and staff, with teachers "bullied" and "intimidated" and fearing loss of their jobs
Female staff complained of unfair treatment
Family members being appointed to unadvertised senior leadership posts
The phrase "white prostitute" used in class assemblies
Private investigators hired by governors to check staff email
Is anyone getting the sack for that? Can you imagine if anyone else was accused of that type of racism in an assembly it would be front page news.

richard s 10-06-2014 07:51
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Now Michael Gove has told schools to promote British values! what ever that is. I suppose this would stop any radicalization ideas being put into the Childrens heads as if.

Russ 10-06-2014 08:03
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard s (Post 35705539)
Now Michael Gove has told schools to promote British values! what ever that is. I suppose this would stop any radicalization ideas being put into the Childrens heads as if.
The irony of using the Americanised spelling of 'radicalisation' ;)

Where has he said about promoting British values?

richard s 10-06-2014 08:06
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35705545)
The irony of using the Americanised spelling of 'radicalisation' ;)

Where has he said about promoting British values?

In the Houses of Parliament Yesterday... ZZzzzz

Russ 10-06-2014 08:09
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
I mean do you have a link?

papa smurf 10-06-2014 08:23
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Christmas.html


goves speech

richard s 10-06-2014 08:23
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35705550)
I mean do you have a link?

Here you go Russ:

http://theguardian.com/politics/2014...-horse-reports

Russ 10-06-2014 09:03
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
I'm pretty sure the idea will soon get jumped on by loony organisations such as Britain First to push their own propaganda and agenda.

Qtx 10-06-2014 10:52
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Hardly seem loony by their mission statement, especially when a good percent of the country agree's with them.

Quote:
We want a Britain that is strong, proud, free, sovereign and independent, in which our people live in a healthy, moral and ethical society.

We want our people to come first, before foreigners, asylum seekers or migrants and we are overtly proud of this stance.
I consider those who protest loudly about anything and everyone that is anti-immigration or anti-religion as the loony ones.

Russ 10-06-2014 11:15
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtx (Post 35705605)
Hardly seem loony by their mission statement, especially when a good percent of the country agree's with them.
No you're right, I stand corrected. Britain First are a group of fine, upstanding role models for all.

Qtx 10-06-2014 12:28
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35705615)
No you're right, I stand corrected. Britain First are a group of fine, upstanding role models for all.
:tu:

Damien 10-06-2014 12:45
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Britain First are an off-shoot of the BNP. One of the groups their members split too as they slowly collapsed and devided over the years.

Hugh 10-06-2014 13:48
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35705615)
No you're right, I stand corrected. ؟ Britain First are a group of fine, upstanding role models for all ؟.
Fixed that for you.... ;)

Qtx 10-06-2014 14:09
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35705673)
Fixed that for you.... ;)
Didn't need fixing, it was understood in the first place and I doubt anyone will miss the sarcasm in the reply as it is expected from certain posters alongside the usual passive aggressive rhetoric questions ;). Just replied in a way that someone usually replies themselves. Maybe you can fix other comments in the future, rather than sticking to the same pattern

Amazing how the same person has deflected the conversation away from the extremist muslim school and on to some random group. Business as usual....

nomadking 10-06-2014 14:32
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Strange that we're forever being told that there are only a few extremists around, and yet this sort of thing is happening easily in various places. That suggests that there are an awful lot of extremists around, along with their supporters.

martyh 10-06-2014 14:45
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35705691)
Strange that we're forever being told that there are only a few extremists around, and yet this sort of thing is happening easily in various places. That suggests that there are an awful lot of extremists around, along with their supporters.
Suggests exactly the opposite to me given that the trojan horse plan got grassed up by other Muslims .

nomadking 10-06-2014 14:50
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35705700)
Suggests exactly the opposite to me given that the trojan horse plan got grassed up by other Muslims .
If the plan had been "grassed up", then none of the things would have happened in the first place, would they? They DID happen.

21 schools in Birmingham, identified so far.
Quote:
A former head teacher at a Birmingham school said that such religiously-motivated, concerted attempts at forcing out heads had been taking place since the 1990s. Another head teacher said he had told the DfE about the problem in 2010.

martyh 10-06-2014 15:00
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35705705)
If the plan had been "grassed up", then none of the things would have happened in the first place, would they? They DID happen.

21 schools in Birmingham, identified so far.
and got stopped ,either way it your assertion of extremists getting their way and being supported appears to be wrong ,not that extremism was the problem anyway

Qtx 10-06-2014 15:02
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35705700)
Suggests exactly the opposite to me given that the trojan horse plan got grassed up by other Muslims .
Wonder if this was the case. I was thinking it was someone who got pushed out of their job or something like that, rather than say parents of pupils of the school. If all the staff are muslim then I suppose there is a good chance they were grassed up by a muslim. Without much info hard to say if it's due to revenge of some sort rather than not liking the radical direction the school had gone, with prospects of getting much worse.

papa smurf 10-06-2014 15:43
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35705691)
Strange that we're forever being told that there are only a few extremists around, and yet this sort of thing is happening easily in various places. That suggests that there are an awful lot of extremists around, along with their supporters.
i tend to agree ,the question is just how much of this stuff is swept under the carpet to avoid public panic , i'll bet this is just the tip of a massive iceberg .

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtx (Post 35705713)
Wonder if this was the case. I was thinking it was someone who got pushed out of their job or something like that, rather than say parents of pupils of the school. If all the staff are muslim then I suppose there is a good chance they were grassed up by a muslim. Without much info hard to say if it's due to revenge of some sort rather than not liking the radical direction the school had gone, with prospects of getting much worse.
listening to the Jeremy vine show yesterday it seems none Muslim staff were filtered out of the schools by promoting others into key positions .

martyh 10-06-2014 15:52
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtx (Post 35705713)
Wonder if this was the case. I was thinking it was someone who got pushed out of their job or something like that, rather than say parents of pupils of the school. If all the staff are muslim then I suppose there is a good chance they were grassed up by a muslim. Without much info hard to say if it's due to revenge of some sort rather than not liking the radical direction the school had gone, with prospects of getting much worse.
This statement from Khalid Mahmood, Birmingham Perry Barr MP would suggest that the more moderate Muslims in the area kicked back at the idea of hardline Muslims changing the theology of what should have been secular schools

Quote:
Khalid Mahmood, Birmingham Perry Barr, MP told Sky News: "I believe fundamentally there has been a serious bid by a very small minority trying to get under the radar against the wishes of the mainstream Muslim community."
Mr Mahmood said he had been told of the "bullying and harassment" of senior teaching staff and governors at some of the schools involved.
He said: "What they were trying to do is change the theological beliefs of the majority of the Muslim community into a more hardline belief for young people coming through
It is possible that one single aggrieved parent or teacher could have sparked it all off but i think it more likely to be the Muslim community itself .I know it's hard for some to understand but not every Muslim is an extremist/terrorist

Pierre 10-06-2014 16:36
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35705700)
Suggests exactly the opposite to me given that the trojan horse plan got grassed up by other Muslims .
was it?

martyh 10-06-2014 17:09
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35705745)
was it?
apparently yes ,assuming the documents are real of course

papa smurf 10-06-2014 18:23
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Daves on the case

'Freedom, tolerance and respect for the rule of law and UK institutions': Cameron lays out 'British values' that will be taught in every school to stop radicalisation

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz34GIwBJTV
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Pierre 10-06-2014 18:35
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35705767)
apparently yes ,assuming the documents are real of course
i haven't seen that. as far as i have read the whistleblower was a bloke called Keith townsend

---------- Post added at 19:35 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35705828)
Daves on the case

'Freedom, tolerance and respect for the rule of law and UK institutions': Cameron lays out 'British values' that will be taught in every school to stop radicalisation

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz34GIwBJTV
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
nothing wr

---------- Post added at 19:35 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35705828)
Daves on the case

'Freedom, tolerance and respect for the rule of law and UK institutions': Cameron lays out 'British values' that will be taught in every school to stop radicalisation

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz34GIwBJTV
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
nothing wrong with that

martyh 10-06-2014 19:07
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35705834)
i haven't seen that. as far as i have read the whistleblower was a bloke called Keith townsend
From what i have read the documents where correspondence between 2 Muslim groups in different parts of the country ,one of which leaked the document to the authorities ,i know there is doubt as to the authenticity of the documents but they appear to be true given the OFSTED findings .Keith Townsend is reported to have backed up the claims made in the documents by his own experiences, apparently he made allegations back in 2010

Qtx 10-06-2014 19:17
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
I think that is the problem martyh, not one newspaper is actually reporting that the trojan letters appear to be authentic and were correct. It's almost as if all the mainstream media have tiptoed around this fact to shout about radicalism instead when it is only a part of the story.

Even though there are stories about all this, it still feels like there is a cover-up or media have been forced not to print stories a certain way, much like the original blackout of that muslim pedo gang.

Must admit that is the first I heard that the letter was correspondence between two muslim groups. Details have been a bit sketchy of many parts of this. Seems instead of arresting people and digging deep to sort this problem out full and quickly, it has instead turned in to a political chess game between some....

martyh 10-06-2014 19:30
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtx (Post 35705845)
I think that is the problem martyh, not one newspaper is actually reporting that the trojan letters appear to be authentic and were correct. It's almost as if all the mainstream media have tiptoed around this fact to shout about radicalism instead when it is only a part of the story.

Even though there are stories about all this, it still feels like there is a cover-up or media have been forced not to print stories a certain way, much like the original blackout of that muslim pedo gang.

Must admit that is the first I heard that the letter was correspondence between two muslim groups. Details have been a bit sketchy of many parts of this. Seems instead of arresting people and digging deep to sort this problem out full and quickly, it has instead turned in to a political chess game between some....
Quote:
The city council and the Birmingham Mail have received documents which purport to show Jihadists are targeting schools and orchestrating false allegations against staff, including non-Muslims, in an operation dubbed Trojan Horse.
Quote:
The documents claim to be leaked written correspondence from one Birmingham fundamentalist to another in Bradford and details plans to roll out Trojan Horse to Bradford as well as Manchester.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news...t-take-6782881


I do agree that there seems to be a lot of tip toeing about regarding the original leaked documents ,as yet there is no confirmation of their validity one way or the other despite the OFSTED reports appearing support the leaked documents.

Damien 10-06-2014 20:04
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
The leaked document could have been a attempt to force an investigation rather than a genuine document.

Qtx 10-06-2014 20:06
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Yeah, there were the initial reports but since then reporting has been different, in not a way I can easily describe. I still get the feeling there is more to tell but someone is trying to hide it from the public.

Thanks for the quote, I don't remember seeing it any of the mainstream media sites I read about it on but I may have missed it.

---------- Post added at 21:06 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35705870)
The leaked document could have been a attempt to force an investigation rather than a genuine document.
If it was, it's done it's job....I think. Although it's not exactly clear what will or has changed since.

Damien 10-06-2014 21:04
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Anyway the letter wasn't being investigated by Ofsted so as far as I know that's still ongoing as is the investigation from the counter-terrorist guy that Gove appointed.

Osem 18-07-2014 08:05
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
A damning report into extremist infiltration of Birmingham schools has uncovered evidence of "coordinated, deliberate and sustained action to introduce an intolerant and aggressive Islamist ethos into some schools in the city".
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...ingham-schools

Sirius 18-07-2014 08:14
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35715556)
I think this is just the tip of the iceberg.

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 08:15
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
each day my views on Islam seem more and more justified

Osem 18-07-2014 08:22
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35715557)
I think this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Well I guess the main thing is that we now know there IS an iceberg. Let's hope the authorities can soon identify the extent of this dangerous infiltration and get to grips with it once and for all.

RizzyKing 18-07-2014 09:07
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
As dispatches showed this week it isn't just Islam that has it's nutters trying to brainwash young kids it goes beyond one religion. End of the day all faiths like all groups in society have their extremists but there should be proper systems in place to prevent them getting into positions that allow them to extend their personal lunacy to wider audiences. There was evidence going back years on this that was either ignored or bounced round the system, parents knew and were trying to get it sorted teachers in all the schools concerned knew and were talking out so yet again systemic failure and heads should roll as most of the people that didn't deal with this will probably still be in the same jobs.

Osem 18-07-2014 09:21
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35715566)
As dispatches showed this week it isn't just Islam that has it's nutters trying to brainwash young kids it goes beyond one religion. End of the day all faiths like all groups in society have their extremists but there should be proper systems in place to prevent them getting into positions that allow them to extend their personal lunacy to wider audiences. There was evidence going back years on this that was either ignored or bounced round the system, parents knew and were trying to get it sorted teachers in all the schools concerned knew and were talking out so yet again systemic failure and heads should roll as most of the people that didn't deal with this will probably still be in the same jobs.
Sadly true I fear.

martyh 18-07-2014 09:30
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35715566)
As dispatches showed this week it isn't just Islam that has it's nutters trying to brainwash young kids it goes beyond one religion. End of the day all faiths like all groups in society have their extremists but there should be proper systems in place to prevent them getting into positions that allow them to extend their personal lunacy to wider audiences. There was evidence going back years on this that was either ignored or bounced round the system, parents knew and were trying to get it sorted teachers in all the schools concerned knew and were talking out so yet again systemic failure and heads should roll as most of the people that didn't deal with this will probably still be in the same jobs.
As long as we have had schools,colleges and universities extremists have used them as a recruiting ground .I remember back in the '70's we had the problem of the National Front ,letters where sent home to parents warning that they where trying to recruit in our local schools .It seems that in this case history hasn't taught our leaders anything about protecting our kids from extremists.

---------- Post added at 10:30 ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tizmeinnit (Post 35715558)
each day my views on Islam seem more and more justified
Only in your tiny bigoted mind :rolleyes:

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 09:33
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35715580)
As long as we have had schools,colleges and universities extremists have used them as a recruiting ground .I remember back in the '70's we had the problem of the National Front ,letters where sent home to parents warning that they where trying to recruit in our local schools .It seems that in this case history hasn't taught our leaders anything about protecting our kids from extremists.

---------- Post added at 10:30 ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 ----------



Only in your tiny bigoted mind :rolleyes:
Just how I like it.

martyh 18-07-2014 09:39
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tizmeinnit (Post 35715582)
Just how I like it.
The problem is that people like you are too stupid to realise that you are part of the problem ,your own extremist views just lead to others having extremist views

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 09:52
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35715585)
The problem is that people like you are too stupid to realise that you are part of the problem ,your own extremist views just lead to others having extremist views
the only issue I have with your statement is you calling me stupid I am far from stupid and you are an idiot to think I am

martyh 18-07-2014 10:01
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tizmeinnit (Post 35715586)
the only issue I have with your statement is you calling me stupid I am far from stupid and you are an idiot to think I am
so you accept you and your ilk are part of the problem ,kinda justified my statement........outstanding :rofl:

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 10:09
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35715588)
so you accept you and your ilk are part of the problem ,kinda justified my statement........outstanding :rofl:
no I just do not take that much notice of what you post

Ramrod 18-07-2014 10:11
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35715585)
The problem is that people like you are too stupid to realise that you are part of the problem ,your own extremist views just lead to others having extremist views
I probably hold what you would class as 'extremist' views. Funny thing is that I didn't have those views till 9/11, Spain, London, Bali etc, etc :(

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 10:17
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35715596)
I probably hold what you would class as 'extremist' views. Funny thing is that I didn't havethose views till 9/11, Spain, London etc, etc :(
the rise in Islam problems around the world does it to me. What is going on in Africa and ISIS I feel is the most dangerous as the West do not seem to care about Africa so when Isis etc get a foot hold there is will be hard to break. These radicals have money behind them and we all know how the Africans like hand outs so they are being welcomed with open arms.

My biggest concern with this country is the apathy or just unwillingness to look at the situation I guess it is to scary for some.

martyh 18-07-2014 10:29
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35715596)
I probably hold what you would class as 'extremist' views. Funny thing is that I didn't have those views till 9/11, Spain, London, Bali etc, etc :(
But do you think all Muslims are terrorists though .The likes of Tiz publicly announce to the world their hatred for all Muslims and justify that hatred by saying idiotic things like "i don't know who is a Muslim terrorist so i don't trust any of them" .His twisted logic would suggest that you ,I and everybody should be hated equally because we could all be terrorists .

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 10:42
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35715601)
But do you think all Muslims are terrorists though .The likes of Tiz publicly announce to the world their hatred for all Muslims and justify that hatred by saying idiotic things like "i don't know who is a Muslim terrorist so i don't trust any of them" .His twisted logic would suggest that you ,I and everybody should be hated equally because we could all be terrorists .
hahahahaha and you call me stupid how do you get hatred out of what I say. Total misrepresentation and may I point out the irony of you saying I have twisted logic when you make things up as you go along

I do not even hate you marty ;)

martyh 18-07-2014 10:59
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tizmeinnit (Post 35715606)
hahahahaha and you call me stupid how do you get hatred out of what I say. Total misrepresentation and may I point out the irony of you saying I have twisted logic when you make things up as you go along

I do not even hate you marty ;)
I've said it before but you should really remember what you post .Your constant anti Muslim bashing at every opportunity and open admission of unashamed bigotry only leaves me with the impression that you hate everything about Islam ,i put you in the same category as the other crackpot who started the "Israel zionist jews killing innocent people" thread

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 11:01
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Anti radical Islam with a mistrust of all because I do not know which is which does not equal hatred

Ive said it before but I really do not take that much notice of what you post

rhyds 18-07-2014 11:05
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
I don't think every Irish Catholic is a terrorist just because of the IRA...

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 11:08
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyds (Post 35715614)
I don't think every Irish Catholic is a terrorist just because of the IRA...
good for you :) although they only wanted an unified Ireland and not and end to everyone who is not Muslim but I have to admit I was a little nervous of paddys with a sports bag back in the 80s

Pierre 18-07-2014 11:15
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyds (Post 35715614)
I don't think every Irish Catholic is a terrorist just because of the IRA...
And nor do I, but to compare the two is very silly.

The campaign by the IRA, was not religiously motivated, it was politcal, and it was very specific to the UK, and the UK alone.

The "global" threat that Islamic Extremism presents is a wholly different kettle of worms.

I'm no fan of Tizmeinnit, but if has has a distrust of Islam in general, he is entirely entitled to hold that view.

Forget all this "most muslims are peaceful people etc etc etc" Maybe. But I would also argue that "most" muslims do not approve of Western society, and they would be much happier if everywhere was more islamified. See Birmingham schools for example.

This intolerance of our society is only one skip away from extremeism, and this is what those trying to indoctrinate those into extremeism use.

I have a very deep mistrust of Islam and Muslims. I'm not a bigot, or stupid. I can see the global evidence and here at home, and my mistrust is entirely justified.

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 11:21
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35715625)
And nor do I, but to compare the two is very silly.

The campaign by the IRA, was not religiously motivated, it was politcal, and it was very specific to the UK, and the UK alone.

The "global" threat that Islamic Extremism presents is a wholly different kettle of worms.

I'm no fan of Tizmeinnit, but if has has a distrust of Islam in general, he is entirely entitled to hold that view.

Forget all this "most muslims are peaceful people etc etc etc" Maybe. But I would also argue that "most" muslims do not approve of Western society, and they would be much happier if everywhere was more islamified. See Birmingham schools for example.

This intolerance of our society is only one skip away from extremeism, and this is what those trying to indoctrinate those into extremeism use.

I have a very deep mistrust of Islam and Muslims. I'm not a bigot, or stupid. I can see the global evidence and here at home, and my mistrust is entirely justified.
no fan of you either but here we agree

RizzyKing 18-07-2014 11:43
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Islam does seem to be the prominent threat at the moment but we will not solve the problem with ignorance, bigotry or hatred towards Islam and maybe if the west openly apologised and recognised the unmitigated disaster it has created throughout the last few decades it might be a good start. That said i do blame moderate Islam for not doing enough to fight extremism and one of my friends highlighted it not so long ago when extremists started attending his mosque he didn't stay and fight or confront them he moved to another mosque. They cannot have it both ways by condemning extremism within Islam and at the same time do little to fight it.

I do think we may have been more tolerant of extremism for too long allowing it to get more of a foothold then it should ever have been allowed.

Ignitionnet 18-07-2014 11:44
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
I see The Guardian are trying to spin this into an attack on Gove.

Probably feeling a little sheepish over their months of denial that anything was up, going as far as their education correspondent going to the main school involved on an escorted visit and pronouncing everything as fine.

This comment hits the nail on the head there.

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 11:45
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35715642)
Islam does seem to be the prominent threat at the moment but we will not solve the problem with ignorance, bigotry or hatred towards Islam and maybe if the west openly apologised and recognised the unmitigated disaster it has created throughout the last few decades it might be a good start. That said i do blame moderate Islam for not doing enough to fight extremism and one of my friends highlighted it not so long ago when extremists started attending his mosque he didn't stay and fight or confront them he moved to another mosque. They cannot have it both ways by condemning extremism within Islam and at the same time do little to fight it.

I do think we may have been more tolerant of extremism for too long allowing it to get more of a foothold then it should ever have been allowed.
well that is never gonna happen

Pierre 18-07-2014 11:47
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35715642)
Islam does seem to be the prominent threat at the moment but we will not solve the problem with ignorance, bigotry or hatred towards Islam and maybe if the west openly apologised and recognised the unmitigated disaster it has created throughout the last few decades it might be a good start.
I don't recall Al-Qaeda apologising for 9/11.

Which is what caused the start of the Afghanistan campaign, and which led into Iraq.


Quote:
I do think we may have been more tolerant of extremism for too long allowing it to get more of a foothold then it should ever have been allowed.
agreed

RizzyKing 18-07-2014 11:52
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
9\11 is not excusable in anyway but how long had the west messed about with the middle east the UK has a portion of blame you reap what you sow and whilst many may not like it the west sowed a hell of a lot and is now reaping. I'm not excusing extremism but i'm also not forgetting this is a problem the west had a major hand in creating.

Jimmy-J 18-07-2014 11:56
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
The peaceful majority are irrelevant.

http://youtu.be/Ry3NzkAOo3s

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 12:00
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
well if it really is 15 to 25 % that are extreme then that really is scary 180 to 320 million

martyh 18-07-2014 12:03
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35715654)
9\11 is not excusable in anyway but how long had the west messed about with the middle east the UK has a portion of blame you reap what you sow and whilst many may not like it the west sowed a hell of a lot and is now reaping. I'm not excusing extremism but i'm also not forgetting this is a problem the west had a major hand in creating.
^
this :clap:

Pierre 18-07-2014 12:05
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35715654)
9\11 is not excusable in anyway but how long had the west messed about with the middle east the UK has a portion of blame you reap what you sow and whilst many may not like it the west sowed a hell of a lot and is now reaping. I'm not excusing extremism but i'm also not forgetting this is a problem the west had a major hand in creating.
Yes there have always been issues with Israel, ever since it was formed, and we share blame in that.

But to think that the problems in the Middle East are what gave rise to the global Islamic extremism is incorrect.

The potted history, You can trace the current issues back to the Russian Invasion of Afghanistan, where the USA practically funded an army put together by Bin Laden to fight the Russians.

After the Russians left, the USA pulled the plug. Then when Iraq invaded Kuwait Bin Laden wanted to fight the Iraqis as he thought that his Islamic army should deal the issue in their own back yard.

When Kuwait decided to put US, UK and other Western troops on the ground Bin Laden decided to wage a Jihad on the West.

The thing is, as is currently being played out in Syria/ Iraq, History dictates that Muslims are quite happy to wipe each other out. The trick is to get them to continue fighting each other and not bother with us.

Maggy 18-07-2014 12:13
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35689361)
...whereas 'death to Gove' speeches seem to be almost encouraged ;)
No he just needs smacking..;)

Qtx 18-07-2014 12:28
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35715650)
I don't recall Al-Qaeda apologising for 9/11.

Which is what caused the start of the Afghanistan campaign, and which led into Iraq.
America, with help from allies, has been interfering in Arab and other Muslim countries for a long time. Forget invasions, it's more interfering behind the scenes on an unbelievable level. Pushing countries in to conflict with each other, arming rebels, organising coups and such is a small part of what they have been doing for a long long time.

America is more of a problem when it comes to world terrorism and breeding new terrorists with it's actions. Dragging other countries and regions like the UK in to it too. Muslim culture in some countries, often imported to the UK, is an issue too. Add America and Muslims together and we have something similar to Israel and Palestine.

nomadking 18-07-2014 13:16
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
How do the conflicts involving Islam in places like Sudan, Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand, Somalia, Nigeria, India , Pakistan (and I'm sure that there are many others) have anything to do with Israel? Then add the many Muslim v Muslim conflicts as well.

The parents of the children at these schools were not exactly overwhelming in their opposition to what was going on. These sort of things are going on in other parts of the country and not just in schools. That could not happen unless there was massive support for it.

From 2006
Quote:
Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts of the country, a survey reveals today.

The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London last July 7, killing 52 people, although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the atrocity.
Hardly just a handful of people.

broadbandking 18-07-2014 13:56
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35715660)
^
this :clap:
You really annoy me with you one track mind of that if someone dares say anything negative towards muslims or islam you class them as bigots, may you should convert to Islam and then you can live with you brothers and sisters and be one with Allah

martyh 18-07-2014 14:05
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadbandking (Post 35715703)
You really annoy me with you one track mind of that if someone dares say anything negative towards muslims or islam you class them as bigots, may you should convert to Islam and then you can live with you brothers and sisters and be one with Allah
Tough ,deal with it .

People like Tizmeinnit should not be allowed to peddle their bigotry and hatred without being challenged .What i object to is the assumption that all Muslims are terrorists ,i will challenge anyone that makes that kind of assumption based on religion or race


You should also know that Tiz admits to being a bigot and seems quite proud of it

Pierre 18-07-2014 14:51
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35715706)
What i object to is the assumption that all Muslims are terrorists
I don't even think Tiz, or anyone, is going that far.

However, I have a deep distrust of Islam, and Muslims.

that's not being bigotted, that's how I feel

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 15:25
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35715706)
Tough ,deal with it .

People like Tizmeinnit should not be allowed to peddle their bigotry and hatred without being challenged .What i object to is the assumption that all Muslims are terrorists ,i will challenge anyone that makes that kind of assumption based on religion or race


You should also know that Tiz admits to being a bigot and seems quite proud of it
you do not challenge me marty you come on try your luck then run off crying calling names. ;)

---------- Post added at 16:22 ---------- Previous post was at 16:22 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35715723)
I don't even think Tiz, or anyone, is going that far.

However, I have a deep distrust of Islam, and Muslims.

that's not being bigotted, that's how I feel
exactly marty just fails on pretty much every subject he "challenges" me on

---------- Post added at 16:24 ---------- Previous post was at 16:22 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35715706)

You should also know that Tiz admits to being a bigot and seems quite proud of it
By definition I am a bigot and yes I am proud I do not care what anyone else thinks I do not trust Muslims and I never will

---------- Post added at 16:25 ---------- Previous post was at 16:24 ----------

oh and marty just look at this part of the definiton of bigot
Quote:
a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
this definitely makes you one also ;)

Maggy 18-07-2014 15:39
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Everyone back on topic please and stop the personal attacks and the baiting of others.

broadbandking 18-07-2014 17:00
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
This one for you Mart not all muslims are terrorist but all terrorist are muslims is that a fair statement as I am not aiming it at all muslims

martyh 18-07-2014 17:13
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadbandking (Post 35715764)
This one for you Mart not all muslims are terrorist but all terrorist are muslims is that a fair statement as I am not aiming it at all muslims
it's a stupid statement ,do you believe it ?

broadbandking 18-07-2014 17:23
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35715767)
it's a stupid statement ,do you believe it ?
No I don't believe it, answer me this then if you love Islam so much how come you don't follow it?

Also should Muslims hate preachers be allowed to express there views?

Russ 18-07-2014 17:32
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadbandking (Post 35715764)
This one for you Mart not all muslims are terrorist but all terrorist are muslims is that a fair statement as I am not aiming it at all muslims
What are IRA bombers? Terrorists?

tizmeinnit 18-07-2014 18:06
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35715773)
What are IRA bombers? Terrorists?
as far as I am aware the IRA are no longer armed the Real IRA took their place yes they are terrorist but are they still targeting civilians? ( I do not know so only asking)

Whatever they are doing Islamic terrorists are acting globally in lots of countries doing lots of damage

Paul 18-07-2014 18:07
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
If i see anymore childish and personal attacks, members will be taking a break - this especially applies to the two members attacking each other in the last couple of pages.

martyh 18-07-2014 18:09
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadbandking (Post 35715770)
No I don't believe it, answer me this then if you love Islam so much how come you don't follow it?

Also should Muslims hate preachers be allowed to express there views?
Who the hell said i love Islam .All i have done is challenge Tizmeinnit on his self confessed bigotry ,now if you think that is wrong and he should be allowed to go unchallenged and continue spreading his rubbish then just say so instead of trying to be clever and making yourself look an ass .

Anyone who preaches hate should be stopped be they Muslims,Christians or CF members

Sirius 18-07-2014 18:11
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35715723)
I don't even think Tiz, or anyone, is going that far.

However, I have a deep distrust of Islam, and Muslims.

that's not being bigotted, that's how I feel

:clap:

Damien 18-07-2014 18:19
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35715661)
Yes there have always been issues with Israel, ever since it was formed, and we share blame in that.

But to think that the problems in the Middle East are what gave rise to the global Islamic extremism is incorrect.

The potted history, You can trace the current issues back to the Russian Invasion of Afghanistan, where the USA practically funded an army put together by Bin Laden to fight the Russians.

After the Russians left, the USA pulled the plug. Then when Iraq invaded Kuwait Bin Laden wanted to fight the Iraqis as he thought that his Islamic army should deal the issue in their own back yard.

When Kuwait decided to put US, UK and other Western troops on the ground Bin Laden decided to wage a Jihad on the West.

The thing is, as is currently being played out in Syria/ Iraq, History dictates that Muslims are quite happy to wipe each other out. The trick is to get them to continue fighting each other and not bother with us.
The current vain of Islamic Terrorism probably started long before the Russian Invasion of Afghanistan. Sayyid_Qutb is seen as one of the important people in it's development. He seemed to have a intense hatred of Western (American) Values. There is a good book about it all called the Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright.

So yes it's wider than the current problems in the middle east as you say.

This is going off-topic however.

As for the school. Should this not now be subject to a criminal investigation? Is there not a law against this kind of thing?

Ignitionnet 18-07-2014 20:58
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Is the holy war done with now? Excellent.

I seriously doubt any criminal charges will be brought. The usual suspects would appear to decry them if they were.

I'm waiting on Salma Yaqoob to pop up and accuse the inspector of bias, claim that there was nothing behind it all, and that even if there were it was fine, along obviously with some accusations of Islamophobia and racism.

Ah sorry, already done.

truthspeaker 18-07-2014 21:05
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
@martyh your the man. He is right be it any religion. Why all the hadred?

Ignitionnet 18-07-2014 21:12
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
In this thread's topic's case something to do with attempts to Islamise secular, state funded schools I imagine.

Maggy 18-07-2014 21:50
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Yes let's just stick to the topic..

RizzyKing 18-07-2014 22:28
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
A proper investigation has to be done so we know exactly what has happened in Birmingham but also everywhere else complaints have been made. If we find there was a problem I'm not sure how you can regulate against it happening again in the future unless some position is created within faith schools to monitor and oversee the kids education.

Maggy 19-07-2014 08:41
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35715858)
A proper investigation has to be done so we know exactly what has happened in Birmingham but also everywhere else complaints have been made. If we find there was a problem I'm not sure how you can regulate against it happening again in the future unless some position is created within faith schools to monitor and oversee the kids education.
Well up until recently that was the job of the head teacher,the governors and the local education authority.Are you suggesting that they now have the equivalent of a moral officer or under cover agent? Not a job I'd like..:(

RizzyKing 19-07-2014 12:42
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Maggy I'm not sure to be honest but it appears headteachers were insufficient in this case as the board of governors got rid of them if they didn't go along so a position that cannot be interfered with.

Qtx 19-07-2014 13:33
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35715971)
Maggy I'm not sure to be honest but it appears headteachers were insufficient in this case as the board of governors got rid of them if they didn't go along so a position that cannot be interfered with.
Which is something we see with our government and business all the time. As areas become predominantly Muslim this type of thing will happen again and again. If we have a Muslim in government in charge of education which is likely to happen at some in the future, then who will get to stop it?

When someone mentioned how Muslims would take over the country by population and politics, they were called right wing. This kind of thing is happening in many areas and more often now though. Having radical Islam teachings in schools is just going to cause more problems. Look at how the Irish catholic & protestant schools worked out for them.

Wish they would hurry up and ban religious teaching from schools. It will happen eventually but might take another 150 years to happen.

Russ 19-07-2014 13:39
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtx (Post 35715990)
If we have a Muslim in government in charge of education which is likely to happen at some in the future,
There are enough ignorant racist bigot voters around to ensure that won't happen.

Hugh 19-07-2014 13:44
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Ruth Kelly was Secretary of State for Education, and is a practicing Roman Catholic (and a member of Opus Dei) - I don't remember that making a difference...

Russ 19-07-2014 13:45
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Yeah but they're not trying to take over the world remember.

tizmeinnit 19-07-2014 13:48
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35715992)
There are enough ignorant racist bigot voters around to ensure that won't happen.
you can not be racist then it comes to a multi cultural religion

To be a racist you have to have a hatred of one of the Anthropological racial groups Caucasoid Negroid Mongoloid Australoid or the strange named Other group.

Seeing as Islam is made up of members of all of these groups then it is impossible to be racist towards Islam

Russ 19-07-2014 13:55
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Yet many still try...

tizmeinnit 19-07-2014 14:03
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35715999)
Yet many still try...
only those who do not know what a racist is think they either are or someone else is when is come to Islam .I am not a racist

Russ 19-07-2014 14:16
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
People who are racist tend not to have a very 'positive' view of Islam regardless of the colour/nationality of the follower, and there are enough of these types to make it virtually impossible for a Muslim to be voted in to a position as high as the cabinet.

RizzyKing 19-07-2014 14:19
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Like it or not suspicion towards Islam is justified given the elements we know exist within the religion and the fact the majority of Muslims don't appear to fight the spread of extremism within the religion. What I am sure of is that those outside of the Islamic faith cannot solve this it has to be done from within and needs to start happening soon if Islam in this country is to be trusted by the majority. As an atheist I'm reluctant to call for religion to be removed from education because I believe there can be a place for it but it's important that it be a positive mind opening element not just a way to perpetuate whatever religion. It was because of R.E that I started to become an atheist.

tizmeinnit 19-07-2014 14:24
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35716004)
People who are racist tend not to have a very 'positive' view of Islam regardless of the colour/nationality of the follower, and there are enough of these types to make it virtually impossible for a Muslim to be voted in to a position as high as the cabinet.
do you have evidence of this? I can not see how you correlate this

Hugh 19-07-2014 14:58
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tizmeinnit (Post 35715996)
you can not be racist then it comes to a multi cultural religion

To be a racist you have to have a hatred of one of the Anthropological racial groups Caucasoid Negroid Mongoloid Australoid or the strange named Other group.

Seeing as Islam is made up of members of all of these groups then it is impossible to be racist towards Islam
You can be a bigot, though, which was one of the descriptors*.

*ignorant racist bigot voters

tizmeinnit 19-07-2014 15:27
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35716025)
You can be a bigot, though, which was one of the descriptors*.

*ignorant racist bigot voters
well if you are an ignorant racist bigot then it can not be towards Islam and be correct because he put the 3 descriptors together

RizzyKing 19-07-2014 15:48
Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 
I think we all know the implication can we stop the stupid hair splitting now.


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:37.
Page 5 of 6 1234 5 6
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum