Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Well perhaps you should factor in the idi....er people who purposefully feed foxes as if they were some endangered species instead of one of our most successful predators.I think that is one reason why we could have so many urban foxes

I seriously doubt that foxes think aha! I'll be off to town to escape the huntsman...

To be honest that report seemed to be very vague as to definite facts and seemed to be mainly about supposition and vaguely mentions percentages but is fairly vague about overall numbers.It's very hard to come to any conclusion.It's all may be(s),possibles,probably, could be(s)

In fact it seems that no one could actually come up with any outright certainty about anything..:erm:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

If that were the case, I would prefer to err on the side of not killing something for the fun of it.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

contraceptives have been used in other countries with some success administered either with a dart from a gun or by using bait ,i.e eggs ,a foxes favourite food .

It also has to be remembered that foxes play a crucial part in controlling other species such as rabbits,kill too many foxes and the rabbit population goes through the roof

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

*sigh*

If you bothered to read the posts in context rather than posting a selective quote you'll see I was talking about a specific act (the blooding of new members of the hunt) and not about the actual hunt itself.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

You alluded to the fact that deer are killed "humanely" by shooting, when this is often not really the case. So, you can sigh all you like, it still doesn't avoid the fact, does it?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

As usual
"the point" <-----------------------------------------------> flyboy

Let me try and explain it to you flyboy.
If I said "you can divide people into those with two blue eyes and those who don't have two blue eyes" would you need evidence that people with two blue eyes are not also people who don't have two blue eyes?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Here we go again, trying wriggle out of what you clearly said. Let me rmind you, you wrote:

Now, that means the those who only want to stop hunting because they don't like rich Tories. How on Earth can it mean anything else?

I then asked:

Which most reasonable people would consider an acceptable question.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

It's a logic argument flyboy, as with the eyes example I was hoping you'd be able to understand.
Apparently I was wrong.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

More excuses?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

We have you for that flyboy :rolleyes:

We've had several comments on here from people saying just that over the years.
A good friend of mine is involved in the Labour party down south (yes, he wasn't happy that Labour got a thrashing in the polls either, but he does at least admit they have screwed up the economy, go on, try and accept it), and campaigned to have fox hunting banned because it would upset the tories in the countryside. His lot even went as far as dressing up as foxes and falling down at the feet of the Tory candidate (who is anti-hunting) while she tried to campaign for election.
You have the parliment act being used and more time spent trying to get it through parliment than what was spent discussing the Iraq invasion, yet other blood sports (those not predominantly practiced by toffs) never got even a suggestion of a ban.

Satisfied? No of course not, you wouldn't have been no matter what I'd put.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Well I wasn't thinking along these lines.It hasn't really worked that well with other pests and vermin...:(

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I seem to recall in the 80's the french dropped chicken heads laced with rabies vaccine across the countryside.
Don't know how effective it was.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I think that's a very bad idea..:(

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

At least the foxes keep the rabbit numbers down. ;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

What happens when animals fight back - WARNING, this is gory!!

The picture in the Guardian today, from a different angle, was totally mad.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Ooooouuuuuuch!

That had to smart.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

A mere flesh wound - nothing a drop of Savlon and a sticky plaster wouldn't sort.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Serves him right.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Whatever happened to "compassion"?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

only got himself to blame
nobody told him to do it
i've got no sympathy for him

any of these phrases ring a bell

i've got one ...hypocrite

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

There is a huge difference between someone deliberatly torturing an innocent animal for commercial spectacle, to someone being electrocuted to death.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Well done the bull. I vote give the bull a second chance to finish the job off.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Is he dead?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Are there bands of compassion, depending on the extent/seriousness of the injury?

Or, is it, as someone one unequivocally stated When you stated "you", did you mean "we", or were you not included in the overarching statement?

No fuzziness, only binary?

btw, I think compassion is fuzzy, not binary, but I wasn't the one who stated otherwise.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

When the Darwin award guy fried himself STEALING i said so what its his own fault and its one less to feed in jail. I say the same for this idiot but its a shame the bull did not finish him off.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

You are right, that was a flippant remark and I stand duly corrected.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Nine-month-old twin girls are seriously ill in hospital after being mauled by a fox as they slept in their cots in east London.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10251349.stm

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Very similar to other reports of children being attacked by dogs. Does not matter what the breed they are all capable of it. I feel for the 2 kids that were in the house, What a horrible thing to happen. I hope they recover and get well soon. And of course the vet did the right thing. At least it was done humanly and without a boat load of so called humans baying and screaming for blood. Makes you wonder why these traps are not used more often as they seem to have done the job in this case ????

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

We keep being told that foxes are scared of us and are timid little animals :rolleyes: Except anyone who bothered to look will have found quite a different story

The count will also examine how foxes are becoming bolder, as an increasing number of homeowners are reporting finding animals intruding into their homes and are no longer deterred by humans.

Part of which is undoubtedly due to the morons that insist on feeding the mange filled vermin

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/486...ban-foxes.html

I hope they are, it's just a pity that it has taken something like this before we even think about starting to act.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Hardly a unbiased and scientific test really; getting a bunch of Torygraph readers to count foxes in their area. Not much of an agenda there then.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

While I feel sorry for the 2 little girls and their parents this cannot be used as an excuse to allow fox hunting to rear its ugly head again.

Imagine the riders in red and their baying hounds maurauding through city streets.:erm:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I would add that it is down to people feeding them and the leftover fast food wrappers/poor storage of food waste that caused this attack.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

From the article and

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Unbiased against what exactly????

What agenda exatly???

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Quite right as with all vermin to many people find them cute and continue to feed them and never blame themselves in cases like this as they see it as a good turn feeding the poor creature.:erm:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Today's defination of Injustice: A Fox is apparently responsible for attacking two young babies and is caught a day or so later and is humanely killed. So here comes the injustice part: While the FOX is killed for attacking the two babies - the monster people of this world, who kill and murder children are allowed to live.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Yeah because that regularly used to happen before the ban, the amount of times I was delayed at Tower Bridge due to them 'maurauding' through was beyond a joke, how about we don't use rural hunting as an excuse for doing nothing about this urban blight.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Allowing people in red to hunt foxes on horseback is not the answer either, that is just forelock tugging.:erm:;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

when I watched the 2 foxes outside in the street the other week, I wouldnt say they were scared of me and in fact I think one in the dark was approaching my open front door out of view with the other distracting me standing in the street watching so I then closed my door. Of course I am scared of dogs so that had a factor, although these foxes were very small in comparison to most dogs.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Like any animal the more contact it has with humans the less fear it'll show as time passes, obviously this would be the case concerning urban foxes not rural ones.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Who said that was the answer?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Not you and your post just used as a sounding board.;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I knew somebody would post about these babies on here.

But as Terry Nutkins said: "There is more to the story than meets the eye. Why would a fox attack two people? A fox will attack a human if it is trapped. They won't go out of their way to attack a human."

My view is exactly the same.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...Soiled_Nappies

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I don't agree with either, personally
Mind you, I've never understood boxing either, watching two people beat each other senseless always seemed rather, well, primitive?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Tbh I dont think much of your experts, one said

He has never known of a fox attacking a human, calling this one a "completely unique event" in his 40-year career. He said it was a "freak incident" which he thought "will never be repeated".

I know of 2 incidents very similar within the last 10 years and the other tried to make out it was a cat or a dog even when the mother said

"I put on the light and I saw a fox and it wasn't even scared of me, it just looked me straight in the eye.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

yeah I thought similiar when I read it, its like the people who claim dog attacks are not normal and it must indicate some kind of unsusual circumstance.

this attack must be great timing for those who want fox hunting tho.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Wonder if those condemning the fox would shout as load about the hunt dogs if they attacked a person or got out of hand. Also i don't seem to remember them being so vocal when its a normal dog that attacks a kid. ????

I hope it never returns.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

More concerning are the burglars and rapists who get into houses even when they don't have back doors left open. Perhaps we should cull them as well. Makes sense. Potentially far more dangerous than a fox that allegedly got in and bit the girls (though I have my doubts about the story the media have been reporting from the mother)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I don't believe for a second that a fox harmed those children... it just doesn't add up.

I hope the truth comes out very soon, before anyone starts harming foxes!

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Lets put it this way, there are many animals that are dangerous if cornered or such a the aroma of 'food or milk' which draws the animal.

If you corner a rat, fox or wild animal they will go for you, and l mean the full teeth job, if an animal smells the aroma of food or milk, they will be drawn to that, if it a child with milk, it will go for the milk, the child has probabely screamed and therefore the fox or any animal then 'fights', anything else is a scandoulous accusation to make.

In all my years l have seen animals do strange things, and nothing more than yesterday, when l pigeon gotr hit by a van, it was attacked by crows, by screetching in pain, then two giant rats came out of a bush, and drag it into the bush for food, l have never seen that before, animals are strange creatures, NEVER mess about with a fox.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Sorry, Arthur, but when I read that phrase, the image sprang to mind of a slightly miffed rat, fox or wild animal giving someone a nasty gum, rather than the "full teeth job".......

<my bad>

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

has anyone seen any images of the wounds? these would normally be plastered in the tabloids in order to whip up more fear and loathing. does the family have any pets? not seen that reported either way yet either.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/10276286.stm

When will you all realise that foxes used to be frightened of humans..But stupid humans keep seeing them as some cute friendly dog and feeding them.

They are predators and now they aren't scared of us anymore they are just as likely to go after vulnerable small babies that cannot get away.They are notorious for killing every chicken in a coop when all they need is one chicken..So I can fully see that they would attack a baby in a cot.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

These two people do it by choice, the fox and to a great degree, the hounds and horses, have none.

---------- Post added at 21:34 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

But dog attacks are not normal.

---------- Post added at 21:37 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------

If that was true, it is a bit late now, a fox has already died.

---------- Post added at 21:41 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

But that is not proof that the attack was made by a fox, even less proof of that it was the same fox.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

what makes people think it wasn't a fox ? :confused:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I think it is the lack of precise details that give people cause to doubt the veracity of the reports so far.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

seems clear and precise to me

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

If you're Flyboy, and the facts don't tally with the way you like to see the world, then they could be presented by a line of French ladies doing the Can Can, each of them holding a placard on which is emblazoned "Here are the clear and precise facts" ... and it still wouldn't be enough. ;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Totally agree.... I smell a rat.. I don't believe a word of it!

And before anyone says it, yes I know 2 babies have been "mauled" by someone or something, I'm just not convinced it was a fox.

Do the family have any pets? Do we know?

I hope the truth comes out soon.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Actually, that sounds like a bit like Monty Python having a go at the Iraqi 'information minister'. Not the best of analogies if you ask me :)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

And to me.

But then foxes have such cute little faces..:rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

So, you are happy to say it was a fox without a shadow of a doubt? I'm sorry, I'm not convinced.

It's anything, but clear.

what's the foxs face got to do with it also? :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Please yourself..I'll just view you as another sad conspiracy theorist...:rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Nice :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

why would you doubt the evidence ,what do you want cctv footage of the babies bedroom ?:rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

The wounds are consistent with bite marks from a fox. There are two choices.

1: The family have a small dog (no idea if they do or not), about fox sized, this attacked the two children. the parents found out, cleaned up the dog and concocted the story prior to contacting police and an ambulance.

2: It was a fox.

Personally I'm going for option 2.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Occam's razor.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

+ they have a picture of the culprit

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...irls-cots.html

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

And he was caught on CCTV fleeing the scene.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Not necessarily the culprit, what did they do, have a Fox identification parade or get a book of Fox mugshots to see which fox it was?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

yeah and no tax or seat belt ,bet he's got no insurance either and those tyres look a bit suspect aswell :D

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Yes and paw prints were taken :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

If you read that article properly though, they say that it "may" of been the same fox.

Plus pest control destroyed a random fox close by that they caught. Nice.

There's more to this story than meets the eye.

---------- Post added at 13:06 ---------- Previous post was at 13:05 ----------

indeed.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

so the police took a picture of a fox at the house and one was destroyed nearby and you still maintain it wasn't a fox :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

That's really great. :rolleyes:

What next, a visit from Ace Ventura? :dozey:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I bet there were cats and dogs and other wildlife near by too... what next? You were near the seen so you must be guilty?

You see 2 black youths and theres just been a robbery, so it must be them :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

what is so hard about believing what the police and the parents have said ,if it was a pet dog that did it don't you think the press would have found out by now ?and cast doubt on the parents story to sell more papers
Even if it was a pet dog don't you think they would tell the police it was and get it destroyed after all who would want a pet that had just savaged you babies

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Better that than a visit from some of the so called experts that have been quoted so far.

---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

Yes very nice, in fact it possibly did old foxy a favour, the average life span for an urban fox is 18 months to 2 years due to disease and mange.

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

Yes but none of them were seen by the mother doing it.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I can understand the controlling of numbers, and the protecting of ones livestock but let's make no mistake - it was done purely for sport, perhaps some are failing to see the bigger picture, all this fox hunting of the past (and it still goes on) has driven these wild animals from rural areas and forced them to live in urban areas - if people weren't so messy with their litter, perhaps it wouldn't have drawn them in either.

I bet you got some snot nose Fox hunters right now blaming the ban on fox hunting for these attacks on these young girls. :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

No it's not nice at all.. you started this thread wanting to start hunting foxes again, so you are going to say that.

Many foxes only live to 2 years due to RTA's not because they are diseased which they are not, sure some become ill as with all wildlife does from time to time. It's a myth they are all full of mange.

The fox didn't deserve to be put down :mad: It's attitudes like this, that show whats wrong with some parts of humanity, no respect for other creatures!

The mother DID NOT see the alledged fox mauling the children, she says she entered the room to see the "fox" in the room and the babies crying in the cots. end of.

---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

indeed Mick.. they think they have a right to hunt and kill animals for sport, it has nothing to do with control of numbers.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

What a load of tosh, foxes weren't driven into towns because of hunting. The reason is because after WWII cities grew bigger and took over the foxes natural habitat and easy access to food made the numbers swell, it also made disease rife, it's that simple.

When in doubt throw a bit about class in and even if they were no one would take them seriously.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

And you have conclusive evidence to this effect that proves your theory huh?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

[QUOTE]
Err no I didn't, I said I didn't want the issue to waste anymore parliament time and was in favour of the ban staying due to the massive increase in fox deaths since the ban was introduced and that it was about time we did something about the urban fox to.


But life for an urban fox is short, with an average lifespan of 18 months, because disease, usually mange, among numbers spreads more quickly in the towns and cities.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/486...ban-foxes.html

I think they need to be culled in urban areas.

That's waek, so what did it then, perhaps the babies did it to each other?

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:42 ----------

As a matter of fact I do, I'll post it when I get back, I am sure you'll agree it's a lot more plausable than some sort of Fox Moses leading his people to the promised land of urban utopia.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

now your being silly
sarcoptic mange is one of the biggest killers of untreated foxes ,if the NFWS didn't keep treating the foxes then nature would take it's course put them down don't treat them it's no wonder the fox population is going through the roof ,it's because we interfere too much ,we feed them and then we treat their illnesses as if they were pets ,they are wild animals

"the mother did not see the alledged fox mauling the children" :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: ridiculous thing to say

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Interesting article here...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-attack-london

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Interaction with Humans: Foxes began living in our cities after World War I; a response (many people consider) to a change in people’s lifestyles. Stephen Harris and Phil Baker at Bristol University consider that the most likely "cause" of urban foxes was the development of once rural land after the First World War; land was built upon and, rather than moving, the foxes adapted to their new surroundings.

Although foxes probably began to be noticed in our towns and cities after World War I, it wasn't until after World War II that they became commonplace

http://www.wildlifeonline.me.uk/red_...ml#interaction

---------- Post added at 15:33 ---------- Previous post was at 15:32 ----------

Interesting in that he completely ignores all the reports of foxes becoming bolder and entering peoples house far more regularly

Domestic animals are far more likely to attack humans as they do not attempt to avoid us as foxes do.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

But saying *Most likely* is not absolutely and it's not definitive proof that it is the *sole* reason foxes have become more urban does it?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I think we can be sure most likely means definitive in this case or else why weren't they living amongst us before.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Sorry, but I don't just buy it that there is one sole reason why foxes have become more urban, there has to be more than one reason, there was still plenty of rural land for Foxes to live and breed on, they didn't need to stay in the city streets.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

The rural land you speak of might well be the patch of another fox. I wonder how many of these foxes are entirely urban as well, I live in the second largest London Borough and am quite certain the foxes round here have no need to be entirely urbanised.

Intersting article on fox attacks

There are few records of foxes attacking humans. In 2002, Sue Eastwood said her 14-week-old boy, Louis, was injured after a fox slunk into her sitting room in Dartford, south-east London. Hackney council claims it has never received a reported incident. But a number of the London borough's residents have been attacked by foxes, including three people in the same block of flats. Many people don't report fox attacks because they don't think they will be believed.

Claire Blakeway was attacked by a fox at her home in Stoke Newington, north London, in July 2003. She was sleeping in her bedroom when she awoke and screamed with pain. "It was like someone dropped a brick on my foot," she says. Blood was streaming from her foot. She had left the door to the fire escape open and, at dawn, a fox had padded into her room, three floors up. "It must've come into the bedroom, seen my foot and had a gnaw on it," she says. "It sunk its incisors into either side of my foot." Her screams scared it off before she could see it but it left distinctive paw prints – not the prints of a cat – running across her cream carpet and on to her sheets. Blakeway got antibiotics for the bite but never formally reported it to anyone, although she heard from the flat warden that two other residents had also reported foxes attacking them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...on-urban-foxes

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

The story gets even more ridiculous by ther day: :rolleyes:

From The Express:

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...-s-so-horrific

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

why is that ridiculous?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

now the fox tried to make off with the babies? Oh please :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

i repeat why is that ridiculous?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

It's ridiculous because the story keeps changing...

Something doesn't add up here. First the news said that the babies were in critical condition but now it appears they had scratches to their faces and arms. Hardly life threatening. Secondly, how does a timid fox go in to an open door, up two flights of stairs, into a bedroom, jump into TWO cots (yes the babies were in seperate cots) and attack them without anyone hearing. Surely they had a baby monitor 2 floors below> And another thing....the news said that one of the children is now well enough and talking.....helloooooo they are 9 months old!!!! I SMELL A RAT NOT A FOX!!!!!

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

from your link,have you actually read it?


seems fairly serious to me
town foxes are anything but timid there are numerous reports of foxes walking into houses
she possibly did have a baby monitor if you actually read the story from when the attack first happened you will note that she heard the babies crying and then went upstairs to investigate

I realy don't know why you insist on doubting the story and despite the evidence denying it ever happened as reported you are starting to sound a bit ,well, silly to be honest

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

We'll see... once the truth comes out ;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

ok then lets leave there for now and see what happens ;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

ok, sounds fair ;)